mostly berserk meta. i'm into berserk mainly for griffguts and i'm a huge fan of griffith.
Tag: b
I genuinely do think Griffith feels some kind of way about Rickert here.
nothing makes me want to know what NeoGriff is thinking more than all this boring small talk
I really, really wonder what Miura’s gonna do with this. Morality-wise I keep mentally comparing Berserk to Watchmen, as another story where the antagonist achieved world peace.
but the thing about Watchmen is that it seemed way more impartial. Like the point was humanity was doomed either way (hence the Ozymandias reference) because peace couldn’t last, but we’re never given a reason to hate Veidt. I feel like you can take his side without the text judging you for that. Or, well, more like it judges you equally no matter whose side you’re on – of the two opposing teams, Veidt killed a city of people with his pragmatism and didn’t accomplish anything lasting, and Rorschach doomed humanity with his idealism and is also a creepy dick in general.
Whereas in Berserk you have Guts the protag who garners a shitload of sympathy and, I suspect at least from Miura’s point of view (nvm mine), never crosses the line into hateable, and Griffith the antag whose defining act as an antagonist was raping the hero’s girlfriend.
Which is why Miura can talk about how NeoGriffith is morally ambiguous and not really a villain all he wants, and I’d really like to believe him because I enjoy those types of stories, but it rings hollow because the audience is practically forced to hate him with the cheapest tactic in the book right off the bat.
And why I wonder if at the end of the day we are going to get some authorial judgement, quite possibly of the ‘fuck utopias, it’s better and more noble/human to struggle against a malevolent universe than be taken care of by a saviour’ variety. I mean there’s been a definite thread of struggling = worthwhile in and of itself, like, look at Jill’s shitty ending lol.
but on the other hand that does feel like selling Berserk short and I’ve so far generally been pretty impressed on how it usually shows multiple justified perspectives of any issue brought up. so it also seems plausible that we will get something more impartial, and the whole femto rape thing was literally just to piss Guts off because Miura is prioritizing the rage and trauma theme over whatever morally ambiguous philosophical religiousy thing he’s going for. So I as a reader am supposed to take it into consideration in the context of why Guts is mad and disregard it in the context of what kind of antagonist NeoGriffith is.
Anyway as far as I’m concerned the only way to reconcile this is to show that NeoGriffith is just as different from Femto as Femto was from human Griffith. Like, I dig my idea that Femto = Griffith minus positive humanity plus evil, and NeoGriffith = Femto minus negative humanity/evil, meaning all that’s left is power and Griffith’s ambition and whatever else Griffith contained that’s basically neutral, and the bug in the system that makes his heart beat for Guts and act to save Casca. Idk how else you’re gonna sell a story about a rapist literally made of evil being a morally ambiguous saviour of humanity. But it could also be that Miura doesn’t feel he needs to do anything more to sell it bc he’s going for a dark and edgy kind of “morally ambiguous”.
man idk i’m just thinking outloud here, this is just casual unfiltered unstructured speculation thrown at the wall so don’t take it too seriously.
i totally misremembered this as apostles fighting each other, but fighting ogres and shit makes more sense
lol everyone remembers guts’ giant ass sword first and foremost
actually to be real, however locus found out about rickert i’d say by his attitude he’s telling him the darksided details about griffith as a test of his potential loyalty
so did griffith tell locus in advance that rickert might show up and to let him know what the deal is with everything
like yo there’s one guy i invited to the party who knew me pretty well before i became a god so catch him up when he gets here and we’ll see how it goes
i’m in an attaching whatever shit i think of while looking at something to the post instead of keeping to the tags mood rn so
this has to come full circle at some point, right? this is one of the most important themes of berserk it can’t just be left dangling with no resolution
so there are 2 ways (imo) for it to come full circle – Guts finally becomes Griffith’s equal (either they’re equalized in some way that makes the whole absolute god incarnate thing irrelevant, eg focusing on emotions rather than power, or Guts becomes a god, or Griffith loses godhood)
or the fact that Griffith is now absolute and therefore totally alone and Guts is achieving his new-found goal of not caring anymore gains significance
i’m expecting the latter tbh. bc i mean like… this can’t just never come up again, how unsatisfying would that be? it’s the driving force behind the wedge between Guts and Griff and was replayed when Guts was seeking revenge after the Eclipse, and there’s no conclusion to that thread yet.
I took a final look at it and whispered, not the berserk tag. Sorry, but I’m not brave enough.
Is this a reimagination of the falling off the cliff before the battle of doldrey scene or post torture arc?
Good question – but now that you mention it omg a reimagining of the whole cliff debacle with Griffith in place of Casca would be amazing. Casca would step up, take command, and own the battlefield. Griffith could have a debilitating fever and share some of his past while his temp is 103 and he’s out of it after like a fever nightmare about the inevitable battle of Doldrey. Guts would get possessively protective the way he does. Casca could show up in the nick of time to save Griffith from passing out and being killed by the enemy while Guts does his 100 man slayer thing (convincing Griffith to leave his side the same way he convinced Casca, ie, you have a dream and also you’re a burden rn so get lost, which I could see Griff either seeing through and brushing off or having a v bad delayed reaction to) – it would just be wall-to-wall Good Shit.
@mastermistressofdesire said:
I kinda second the ending with both of them dead at the end. Nothing else would be quite as fitting.
ikr there’s something so satisfying to me about the idea. maybe bc they have this whole fated enemies vibe.
Grand fated tragedy is one of the things which makes Berserk so tantalizing to me. I mean to be completely honest I was pretty dissapointed to hear Kentaro Miura’s little quip about not wanting to end Berserk as a complete tragedy because that’s kind of what we’ve been on board for, for a very long time.
I want an ending which wrecks me, gives me that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and yet feels completely intellectually satisfying. The kind of thing which leaves behind a little bit of a void which you then seek desperately to fill with your thoughts and others’.
I want none of that happily ever after, riding off into the sunset to raise his child with Casca bullshit. Like no.
That’s not an ending I mind in itself. I mean I love happily ever afters too. But not in Berserk. Here it would simply be disappointing. On so many levels.
I don’t want to leave this series with an “Aww. That’s cute, I guess” feeling. Because that’s honestly too freaking mediocre to be anywhere near satisfying.
As to why both need to die together.
A) Sheer poetry.
B) As long as Griffith is alive, Berserk can not have a conclusion. It can end yes but not with any level of satisfaction or closure.
C) If Griffith dies and Guts lives— a. Guts is doomed to more of an eternity pining after Griffith, which he’s already been doing for the last 30 volumes and would be no conclusion
b. Guts loses all motivation for existing, has nothing pushing him onward and has an emotional cave in, again kind of a terrible conclusion.
c. Guts gets over Griffith and resolves to spend the rest of his life being the perfect family man with all his new—Hahahahahahahhha. AS IF.
P.S.- Casca should definitely not die. She’s been absent from the narrative too long to justify bringing her back just to kill her off or take away her voice again.
i could see griffith living as a satisfying conclusion depending on how it’s framed – like say a final image of neogriff visually isolated and alone (esp if he still rules the world or w/e) if we learn that he really is still emotionally fucked up over guts – but I still think the most satisfying to me is both dead.
and yeah casca dying would just be… redundant and bad, not even touching on the misogyny. It’s not even that she deserves a nice life, it’s that after everything w/ her character being destroyed I think the most satisfying conclusion for her is a hopeful future.
and tbh i think no matter what i’d prefer if guts dies. after all this business with him being “the struggler” and defying death all his life over and over i think his death could be really powerful and meaningful. being born from a corpse and then defying fate trying to kill you and then living a chill happy family life for 50 years and dying of old age just doesn’t keep that epic vibe going.
@madchen said:
guts is gonna “wield his sword” for griffith… yup
you can’t tell me this isn’t purposeful like come on. surely there are other ways to majestically hold a sword
@madchen said:
love the close ups of
guts eyes and his grip tightening on his swords handle while griff is
disassociating during the whole thing
ifkr. gotta love all those swords held at crotch-height in significant emotional moments
yeeeeah i can’t read it without wincing the whole time lol. it’s one of two scenes where i prefer the film version, which is also awkward as all hell but less skeevily portrayed and somehow even gayer
unless you mean bc it’s tragic in which case… also fair
This was actually what I took away from the fountain speech between Charlotte and Griffith the first time I watched it. Honestly the ‘Omg he’s such an asshole for not considering them friends’ was new to me until I saw others talking about it.
I once remember saying I can make everything about Berserk.
@bthump I remember you once saying something similar.
i love that this is on a britney spears gifset lmao, your talent for making anything about Berserk is impressive.
but yeah strong agree, like, Griffith doesn’t call them friends but they don’t treat him like a friend, they treat him like a leader and figurehead. even guts does when it comes down to it.
the scene between Guts and Griffith that comes right before the Promrose Hall speech was Griffith asking Guts to assassinate Julius for him, which I find really telling. Griffith words it carefully, very pointedly not giving him an order but simply making it a request – it was Griffith treating Guts like an equal and friend and co-conspirator. And Guts’ response was, “just order me to do it.”
Which yk makes sense and is a perfectly reasonable and kind of amusing and dry response, but it’s another thing Griffith could and probably did take as a mild rejection (especially if he’s looking back on their relationship after everything goes south). It was easily interpretable as Guts saying “I’m doing this because I’m your soldier, not for you.”
If Griff won without killing Guts or permanently maiming him I think the tragedy would be subtle and quiet but there.
Guts would give up his attempt to be Griffith’s equal. I think on one level he’d actually still be glad that Griffith fought to keep him, but he would stop thinking of himself as a potential friend and equal, and start thinking of himself as truly lesser. Consequently he would grow distant. He might feel restless and stuck since now he’s made the choice to leave the Band once and been unable to. At any rate, he and Griffith would absolutely lose their camraderie.
Guts would no longer be the person who treats Griffith irreverently, disobeys orders, has waterfights, etc. Griffith would be up on a pedestal now, totally unreachable, and that would be reflected in Guts’ attitude towards him. He’d still admire him (though he’d probably still feel some resentment too), but he’d treat him like a leader and figurehead, not a person anymore.
Good ending: Griffith eventually breaks, does stuff like… idk starts pushing Guts’ boundaries, gives him more commands that keep him close (promotion to bodyguard?), tries to force conversation etc, eventually Guts feels backed into a corner and they have a confrontation and finally manage to talk and grow. OR Griffith does something stupid and irrational for him again and Guts finally manages to have an uninterrupted conversation with him about it.
Bad ending: Griffith lets the distance grow, resigns himself to it, throws himself into political machinations, loses touch with the Band in general now that he’s among nobility, maintains only a working relationship with his former Hawk commanders, gets everything he thought he wanted and ends up miserable without knowing why.
If Griffith just killed Guts then I think, if I had to settle on one outcome, he’d suppress his emotions harder than he’s ever suppressed anything before, continue on like normal, grow distant from the Band who would probably be pretty disturbed by this reaction, marry Charlotte, and one day have a complete breakdown.
I’m kind of into the idea of Griffith achieving his dream at a cost he can’t bear ngl.
okay like, i’m critical af of berserk. there are a LOT of aspects of it i dislike and a lot of aspects i consider straight up bad writing
but i swear so many berserk fans who love it to pieces and practically think it should be framed in a museum of modern art think it’s a lot worse than i do
i mean give the writer of the work you love some credit for creating a complex story instead of reducing everything he writes down to “manly hero hates former best friend who turned out to be an evil bag of dicks all along, wants revenge and also to fuck his traumatized girlfriend“
I’ve been wondering Like is there people out there who like…don’t think of Griffith and femto as the same person you know like how some dipshits are like “oh no anakin didn’t slaughter the younglings that was darth Vader darth Vader killed anakin from a certain point of view actually” is there people who think Griffith didn’t rape casca and slaughter the entirety of the band of hawk?
That it was his fucking alter ego countess boochie flagrante
tbf unlike anakin griffith literally got an explicitly described evil injection (”a fissure in your heart will open into which evil will surge), a new body created out of the same negativity as the idea of evil, and was explicitly shown losing his capacity to feel as the Band died and he was transforming so like…
yeah i feel it’s pretty well-established canon that femto is different than griffith.
whether you’d say griffith’s dark side + extra evil + new name – ability to feel empathy and other positive emotions = technically a new person or not doesn’t really matter imo, he’s definitely shown to be magically transformed enough physically and mentally for me to be able to draw a pretty solid line between femto and griffith regardless.
I mean they don’t put it down to magic but anakin DOES actually change when he becomes a sith it’s actually shown through out the series that being apart of the dark side does change a person at least physically (I think anyway maybe that was just a theory I read..)
I know there’s a big difference between pre and post eclipse Griffith my main point here is that it was /still/ Griffith who did those things regardless of how much he changed unlike some ppl may say
I used darth Vader as a comparison mainly because I assumed it would be the most well known case
I can actually think of two characters who would probably make a better comparison for numerous reasons but since their from a series of Irish children’s novels I assumed no one would have any idea wtf I was talking about
if that’s the case than fair enough, i’ve only seen the prequels once. i guess he did get yellow eyes somehow come to think of it lol.
I mean I guess this makes this a case of semantics then? As far as I’m concerned once a character goes through a magical fantasy transformation that includes changing the way he thinks it just makes more sense for me to consider them basically different people. If that’s stated somewhere in the movies to be the case between Anakin and Darth Vader and I’ve just forgotten then I’d consider them different too.
to me saying that it was still Griffith who did those things despite changing is like saying Guts tried to slaughter his friends while wearing the berserker armour imo. Sure, it’s technically accurate, but does that mean I should hate Guts because a magical element let the part of him that wants to indiscriminately slaughter innocent people reign free? We’re shown and told in both instances that these magical fantasy processes change the way a character feels and thinks and reacts, the only difference is that Griffith was entirely subsumed by his magic evil alter ego while Guts keeps coming back bc he has a witch and a magic kid on his side. but both Femto and the Berserk armour are manifestations of a character’s dark-side augmented by magic and suppressing their light-side/humanity, so they seem pretty comparable to me.
So what do you mean when you say Griffith still did those things regardless of how much he changed? If you agree that he changed first then we’re pretty much on the same page as far as I can tell. But when that change involves an irreversible physical transformation including new name change and literal “rebirth” as he hatches from an egg, I can understand why lots of people frame that change as a new person.
Like at the core we’re talking about fantasy situations that are not applicable to real life so it really just boils down to what you make of them I guess.
To me, the answer is yes and no. In a sense, Femto is Griffith. But not quite. I’d like to think that both Femto and Neo-Griffith are a part of Griffith that makes Griffith *Griffith* (if that makes sense) and vice versa. After all, whatever Femto and Neo-Griffith did is the result of Griffith’s actions and ambition (and that causality thing when you look at it in bigger perspective). It’s like, faces—masks. The best comparison I can think of is how ancient pantheons have many facades of themselves that manifest into different forms altogether. Take Parvati, a Hindu goddess, for example. Shes a benevolent goddess who is known for her nurturing personality, but she can turn into Durga, the Goddess of death and destruction when she is consumed by dark wrath (which is why she is associated with Guts by Dhaiva in the manga). Is she still the same Goddess? Well, yes and no. And I think that kinda answer is also fitting when talking about whether Griffith/Femto is the same person/creature or not. Especially given his current godlike status IMHO.
I love this goddess comparison! Makes perfect sense to me.
And yeah I pretty much agree with you – imo Femto is Griffith’s dark side stripped of all… positivity and light, yk, and given god-like power.
So Griffith always contained Femto within him but mediated and restrained by humanity and his own conscience and love and guilt etc etc. And according to the world of Berserk this is pretty much true of everyone – everyone’s got their inner darkness. The fantasy world magic just allows it to come out and overwhelm everything else.
Guts has his hellhound which is explicitly compared to Femto in one chapter while he’s being taunted by demons, apostles become apostles by giving themselves over to their dark sides, etc.
eta: anyway yeah tl;dr to sum up I don’t think I or anyone really considers Femto an entirely separate person, like the godhand just killed Griffith and replaced him with someone entirely different and totally unrelated. I think it just comes down to what you think constitutes “a different person” in a fantasy world where rebirth is a feature.
i was thinking about how i should’ve compared the torture chamber monologue and griffith’s descent into darkness as he becomes femto bc they feel so similar to me but i couldn’t really see much point. then i re-read griffith’s monologue because it’s like my favourite thing and thought of something
I’ve been wondering Like is there people out there who like…don’t think of Griffith and femto as the same person you know like how some dipshits are like “oh no anakin didn’t slaughter the younglings that was darth Vader darth Vader killed anakin from a certain point of view actually” is there people who think Griffith didn’t rape casca and slaughter the entirety of the band of hawk?
That it was his fucking alter ego countess boochie flagrante
tbf unlike anakin griffith literally got an explicitly described evil injection (”a fissure in your heart will open into which evil will surge), a new body created out of the same negativity as the idea of evil, and was explicitly shown losing his capacity to feel as the Band died and he was transforming so like…
yeah i feel it’s pretty well-established canon that femto is different than griffith.
whether you’d say griffith’s dark side + extra evil + new name – ability to feel empathy and other positive emotions = technically a new person or not doesn’t really matter imo, he’s definitely shown to be magically transformed enough physically and mentally for me to be able to draw a pretty solid line between femto and griffith regardless.
I mean they don’t put it down to magic but anakin DOES actually change when he becomes a sith it’s actually shown through out the series that being apart of the dark side does change a person at least physically (I think anyway maybe that was just a theory I read..)
I know there’s a big difference between pre and post eclipse Griffith my main point here is that it was /still/ Griffith who did those things regardless of how much he changed unlike some ppl may say
I used darth Vader as a comparison mainly because I assumed it would be the most well known case
I can actually think of two characters who would probably make a better comparison for numerous reasons but since their from a series of Irish children’s novels I assumed no one would have any idea wtf I was talking about
if that’s the case than fair enough, i’ve only seen the prequels once. i guess he did get yellow eyes somehow come to think of it lol.
I mean I guess this makes this a case of semantics then? As far as I’m concerned once a character goes through a magical fantasy transformation that includes changing the way he thinks it just makes more sense for me to consider them basically different people. If that’s stated somewhere in the movies to be the case between Anakin and Darth Vader and I’ve just forgotten then I’d consider them different too.
to me saying that it was still Griffith who did those things despite changing is like saying Guts tried to slaughter his friends while wearing the berserker armour imo. Sure, it’s technically accurate, but does that mean I should hate Guts because a magical element let the part of him that wants to indiscriminately slaughter innocent people reign free? We’re shown and told in both instances that these magical fantasy processes change the way a character feels and thinks and reacts, the only difference is that Griffith was entirely subsumed by his magic evil alter ego while Guts keeps coming back bc he has a witch and a magic kid on his side. but both Femto and the Berserk armour are manifestations of a character’s dark-side augmented by magic and suppressing their light-side/humanity, so they seem pretty comparable to me.
So what do you mean when you say Griffith still did those things regardless of how much he changed? If you agree that he changed first then we’re pretty much on the same page as far as I can tell. But when that change involves an irreversible physical transformation including new name change and literal “rebirth” as he hatches from an egg, I can understand why lots of people frame that change as a new person.
Like at the core we’re talking about fantasy situations that are not applicable to real life so it really just boils down to what you make of them I guess.
@mastermistressofdesire said:
I kinda second the ending with both of them dead at the end. Nothing else would be quite as fitting.
ikr there’s something so satisfying to me about the idea. maybe bc they have this whole fated enemies vibe.
I’ve been wondering Like is there people out there who like…don’t think of Griffith and femto as the same person you know like how some dipshits are like “oh no anakin didn’t slaughter the younglings that was darth Vader darth Vader killed anakin from a certain point of view actually” is there people who think Griffith didn’t rape casca and slaughter the entirety of the band of hawk?
That it was his fucking alter ego countess boochie flagrante
tbf unlike anakin griffith literally got an explicitly described evil injection (”a fissure in your heart will open into which evil will surge), a new body created out of the same negativity as the idea of evil, and was explicitly shown losing his capacity to feel as the Band died and he was transforming so like…
yeah i feel it’s pretty well-established canon that femto is different than griffith.
whether you’d say griffith’s dark side + extra evil + new name – ability to feel empathy and other positive emotions = technically a new person or not doesn’t really matter imo, he’s definitely shown to be magically transformed enough physically and mentally for me to be able to draw a pretty solid line between femto and griffith regardless.
the fact that the fated king with divine right who saves the world and builds a peaceful and prosperous paradise is the antagonist is one of those really basic reversals of expectation that just never ceases to tickle me, i love it so much
Man they’re like beginning the most important conversation of their lives here and it’s genuinely tragic that they never get to finish it bc it could’ve changed so much. Like this exchange is enough for Guts to begin to realize that maybe he’s found a
home and the nebulous thing he’s been searching for (love,
affection, respect – everything he never got from Gambino) here, with
Griffith.
But it’s not enough for Griffith to get in touch
with his own emotions. I think he could’ve though, if the conversation
had a chance to keep going. Guts’ response to Griffith’s “do I need a
reason each time I put myself in harm’s way for your sake” started with,
“No, I just -” before he was interrupted. And the fact that Miura
chose to make it an interruption instead of letting their conversation
end before the king and co show up tells me that the conversation
wasn’t over – so it wasn’t Guts saying, “No, I just wanted to ask,” or
something meek and final.
It was Guts saying, “No, I just thought I was
just another soldier to you,” or “No, I just don’t understand why you would,” or “No, I just never thought there’d be someone who would risk
their life for me.” Yk, something that would force Griffith to consider
what he just said and what it actually means and make it impossible for him to keep deflecting.
ok i’ve been trying to write a long involved thing but yk what fuck it i’m gonna be pithy for once and just point something out:
to guts, neogriffith and casca evoke similar feelings. they’re both former friends, now utterly changed, walking around reminding guts of the unreachable past. he turned his focus to casca after neogriffith showed up looking like the old griffith and acting like a stranger. physically reachable but emotionally unreachable.
and i think there’s an argument in there that guts is so wrapped up in fixing casca, despite acknowledging to himself that there’s a good chance it’s not even in her best interests, in part because he can’t do anything to fix griffith.
Absolutely.
Even the narrative calls attention to this actually. That around the moment when Guts says ‘this time I promise I won’t leave you’ after Griffith leaves, instead of getting a flashback to when he left Casca behind in the cave- which is what should have been the case if these words were intended for her- he flashbacks to leaving Griffith on the snow after their duel.
And you compare to just a few panels before “this time I’m the one left behind” and the previous bit seems a continuation of this.
He’s physically putting his arm around Casca, but he’s thinking of something else, looking up in the sky where Griffith just disappeared.
And once again I hate how all the evidence I have of Guts regard is so fucking unfair to Casca .
ok i’ve been trying to write a long involved thing but yk what fuck it i’m gonna be pithy for once and just point something out:
to guts, neogriffith and casca evoke similar feelings. they’re both former friends, now utterly changed, walking around reminding guts of the unreachable past. he turned his focus to casca after neogriffith showed up looking like the old griffith and acting like a stranger. physically reachable but emotionally unreachable.
and i think there’s an argument in there that guts is so wrapped up in fixing casca, despite acknowledging to himself that there’s a good chance it’s not even in her best interests, in part because he can’t do anything to fix griffith.
Casca/Farnese is the main one tbh, I genuinely think based on their feelings now, when Casca comes back properly (assuming Bad Shit doesn’t happen which is a huge impossible assumption but still) they could easily transition into a tentative, positive relationship. lbr right now Farnese is the only person who’s earned Casca’s trust and affection, and helping Casca has helped Farnese grow as a person so it would feel fitting if Casca continued helping Farnese grow except maybe by like, teaching her the sword or something once she doesn’t need a babysitter. Also this which is too damn real.
Also I semi-seriously ship a lot of minor characters.
Jill/Rosine because duh. Also they have some teenage f/f version of guts/griff vibes.
Charlotte/Anna bc lbr here Anna is the only person who genuinely loves her
Jill/Theresia by virtue of being two kids with close relationships to apostles that Guts hung out with and traumatized, they have a lot they could bond over
Schierke/Sonia bc they’re the same and clearly mutually crushing based on their one afternoon together and also another solid potential Guts/Griff parallel
@jyuanka suggested Serpico/Silat to me once and I hopped completely on board because Serpico desperately needs a boyfriend and I feel like his chill go-with-the-flow thing would actually really complement Silat’s prideful obsessiveness, plus they’re both like, intelligent and practical and cautious about things and idk I just think they’d click.
now if we’re talking sexy encounters and one night stands rather than actual relationship potential i want to add:
slan/farnese. slan taunting farnese about her sadistic tendencies. farnese driving her silver dagger into her and slan calling it foreplay. okay honestly slan/any woman ever. honestly, slan. give me the lesbian fanservice miura.
guts/serpico. serpico needs to get laid, serpico has interesting mixed feelings towards guts, serpico thinks about how guts’ intensity (heat) has affected him, serpico feeling a little lost while farnese is so busy with others, serpico’s obviously into manly soldier types, and guts needs to have sex with a slim blond dude he keeps dueling and then feel maudlin and weird about it.
okay i’ll stop here lol. ty for the question this was fun.
@yoikami said: What if neogriffith has a child. Idk why I picture a lot on my head an evil child from NeoGriffith and Charlotte ’-‘
seems like a plausible thing to happen tbh, esp if there’s a time skip. personally i’m p neutral to the idea bc i don’t really like fictional children but imo it could be an interesting way to shed some light on what griffith even is right now, like can he pass on whatever godlike powers he has? would the kid be another vessel for his consciousness if his body isn’t immortal? would the kid be an ordinary human? would he care about it? that kinda thing.
upon re-reading the raws now with vague translation, i have 2 observations to make:
1. the skullknight forum has an immensely unpleasant atmosphere and i can’t believe there’s apparently been a 20 year debate that people have extremely strong opinions on about whether casca was raped by apostles or not but okay
2. i’ve realized that my reaction to this chapter is mostly positive p much entirely bc my expectations for a “let’s revist the eclipse in casca’s mind” plot are spectacularly low, and i’m just glad that this chapter added a tick to the reasons-casca-hopefully-won’t-fall-into-guts’-manly-arm-when-she-wakes-up box
like i was fully expecting crass phallic monsters at some point, my only surprise is just how blatant it is. like i’m really not expecting a sensitive, interesting exploration of rape trauma, i’m expecting dick monsters and horror and more sexualized depictions of rape. my only real hope is that casca’s reaction to it, now that she finally gets one, is powerful.
oh also bonus 3. i’m willing to lay down money that either right before or right after the eclipse round 2 we’re going to get a neogriff interlude, probably marrying charlotte. bc why on earth wouldn’t you use the opportunity to draw some off-putting contrasts and comparisons? like you can’t just revisit the most evil thing your antagonist has done while he’s walking around being the saviour of the world without doing something with that.
but also if miura does i’m gonna be vaguely mad again that neogriff is a morally ambiguous non-villainous antagonist and the rape p much just makes that depiction edgier and like, also awful
(unless ofc neogriff does start twirling his moustache and getting his malicious evil on, but then i’ll be mad that it’s boring, so really miura already lost the instant he decided the first character-defining act his antagonist would commit is rape. but there u go. w/e the good thing about having basement level expectations is that if casca wakes up and does anything other than resume a relationship with guts i’ll probably be happy)
The fact that Guts decides to pursue an equal
relationship with Griffith after hearing the speech is what singles his
relationship with Griffith out as unique. Everyone else in Griffith’s life is content to
either look up at or down on him.
Even the Princess, his future wife,
just marvels at the speech while literally looking up at him, rather than showing any desire to find a
dream herself and become “worthy” of calling herself his equal.
Because Guts is the only one who wants to genuinely connect with
Griffith – who wants to stand beside him by achieving something of his own – Guts is Griffith’s only “true” relationship, the only
relationship he has based on real affection and genuine desire for the
person, and not just what he represents, either as a symbol of hope and achievement (for the Hawks), a symbol of security and happiness (for Charlotte) or a symbol of corruption and loss of power (for those plotting against him).
Which just makes it so wonderfully ironic that Guts is the only one who made Griffith forget his dream.
Yes. Though we have to add that Guts perceives Griffith still as someone “different from a normal human being”.
His perplexed reaction that Griffith has weaknesses, when he comes back…or that he could be the reason for that.
I think it is more like…Guts wasn t aware that he didn t had to climb the mountain, but maybe just had to look at Griffith differently.
tbh i spent a good chunk of my golden age re-read pondering how guts and casca relate to griffith in different, opposing ways, and never coming to any proper conclusions
but i find it interesting that guts does see griffith as different, and godlike, and perfect (at least after overhearing the speech) while casca sees him as a vulnerable, real person with insecurities and issues of his own, and keeps trying to tell guts that.
and yet casca is the one who showers him with worship while guts treats him with irreverence, disobeying his orders, insisting they go and hang out with him after casca muses over how “distant” he is after a battle, questioning him, letting loose and acting playful around him, deliberately placing himself to protect griffith at the battle of doldrey, “he’s the only person i can’t stand looking down on me,” etc.
i have a vague idea that the discrepency between how guts thinks of him vs how guts treats him is at least partially bc guts planned to uproot his life and abandon his friends to get on griffith’s level, which lbr is a bad decision to make if you don’t believe griffith is on a level somewhere way above you, so he subconsciously ignores and deflects all indications that griffith is just a flawed person in his singleminded focus on his own “dream.”
which is similar to what i perceive griffith does wrt his own dream. like, if the castle is what shines in griffith’s mind, then griffith is what shines in guts’ mind. and i feel like griffith also has to subconsciously convince himself that his dream is worth pursuing despite the negative consequences. ~parallels
and omg yes @ your last sentence. i rly think the golden age was all about false perceptions, yk?
“i have a vague idea that the discrepency between how guts thinks of him
vs how guts treats him is at least partially bc guts planned to uproot
his life and abandon his friends to get on griffith’s level, which lbr
is a bad decision to make if you don’t believe griffith is on a level
somewhere way above you, so he subconsciously ignores and deflects all
indications that griffith is just a flawed person in his singleminded
focus on his own “dream.”
“
Especially that paragraph adresses what I thought about this three.
Guts
Yes, Guts had an interest that Griffith was really “someone above him”, since his own inferiority complex towards people like Griffith prevented him from actually considering him as a mere human being.
Because that is “something he can fix” by actually accomplishing to find his own dream. I mean what would he have done, if he had acknowledged Griffith being a mere human being like him? Guts thought that Griffith didn t really perceive him as his equal.
Griffith
And he was right. People consider Griffith as being above them or under them. There was maybe never someone that looked him straight in the eyes. (Except for Guts).
Griffith most likely felt drawn to him for that reason, but he didn t understand his own feelings. The higher he climbed the more isolated he became, the more deeds that didn t fit in the image of “the glorious hero” he had to commit.
Griffith was excited to reach his dream, but he had to swallow much “evil deeds” in order to attain it. He isolated himself voluntarily in order to be ruthless enough for his dream.
The stress must have been pretty much, Guts was the only person he could depend on, since he at least acted as if there was no much difference between them. And then this person left (in order to have a closer relationship).
But Griffith is an emotionally weak human being…I think he had to think that he “owned” Guts in that moment, when he was about to leave…Since a free human being can leave…And that directly after Griffith opened up at least a tiny bit.
Guts
I think Gut actually wished to have a purpose in his life. So finding the dream may have been not just for Griffith…Still leaving was not the best idea.
Casca
While Guts is a “fighter” in order to get what he wants, Casca more or less gave up.
Casca was interested in that thought that Griffith was a human being, because that allowed her to look at him as a man. She wished to be near him, but she never reached her goal. Griffith never let too much of his guard down…maybe she had a chance, when she saw him in the lake. But he noticed that she refused such a deed. So it is still argueable if this possibility really existed.
By the way I think it was normal that Casca was shocked.
The “fountain scene”- after that scene she drifted more torwards Guts. Guts decided to fight, while Casca gave up.
Still she was the person, who was the emotionally strongest out of the three mains.She was able to express her feelings properly towards Guts, even if she failed with Griffith.
you're the only one 