@bthump I can’t copy your tags on mobile to reply but omg you could write literally a novel on the subject of phallic symbols in berserk holy shit (I’d read it)
lol honestly there’s so much material. and when you’re talking about a story where the main character gives a goddess an orgasm by stabbing her with his giant sword i feel like everything is fair game
And it’s like, I get it, Guts basically is his sword and the text that it’s “part of him” is mentioned 45 times but even when you go so okay that’s the subtext
That subtext just lends itself to further IT’S HIS DICK readings
Also TBH I’ll never get over when he’s alone on the roof and swears himself to griffith– it’s the way he’s holding the sword. I literally laughed at that when I watched the anime tje first time because holy shit. Miura must know what he’s doing. He must??
I feel like I remember seeing confirmation that Miura was inspired by Hellraiser, tho it could’ve just been speculation I guess, but either way yeah big similarities there lol.
tbh I think we’re supposed to think the possibility exists for Guts to become an apostle, but not a Godhand, since a new member only joins up once every 200 something years. But I personally don’t think it’s going to happen.
But Femto/NeoGriff opposing the rest of the Godhand, now that’s something I think is a possibility. Void is sketchy as fuck, he seems to know more than the rest of the Godhand, and he’s got ultimate big bad written all over him. Plus Miura hinted that he’s going to be really relevant. Add in the fact that theoretically there must’ve been 5 other Godhand members 1000 years ago (since one of them can only incarnate every 1000 years, and this must’ve happened more than once to be a recognized cycle) so Godhands don’t last forever, and ngl I do wonder if there’s going to be a conflict between NeoGriff and the Godhand.
And that’s not a stupid question. Like, I don’t think Femto and NeoGriff are in conflict, but I absolutely wonder if NeoGriff has some inner conflict going on with his reawakened emotions, whatever they are. So if that’s the case I wouldn’t really describe that as NeoGriffith vs Femto so much as the last vestiges of human Griffith vs Femto/NeoGriff, but hey that’s just semantics, no one knows wtf is going on with NeoGriff internally or whether he’s distinct from Femto, etc. So I guess “maybe” is my actual answer to that, haha.
Thanks for the ask, idk there’s lots to think and wonder about. I can’t wait til Miura starts actually like, revealing stuff and getting the plot going again lol.
As much as canonically I’d not enjoy Guts as an apostle, fanfictionally I’d be all the fuck over that (AND he’d be EVEN MORE focussed on Griffith oh delicious).
this is the thing that gets me about apostle guts:
a story where guts became an apostle and neogriffith’s feelings can all actually be blamed on the fetus would be a story about two dudes in love, who both became monsters to escape their self-destructive feelings for each other, and through wacky happenstance ended up magically compelled to love each other anyway
@bthump I can’t copy your tags on mobile to reply but omg you could write literally a novel on the subject of phallic symbols in berserk holy shit (I’d read it)
lol honestly there’s so much material. and when you’re talking about a story where the main character gives a goddess an orgasm by stabbing her with his giant sword i feel like everything is fair game
I feel like I remember seeing confirmation that Miura was inspired by Hellraiser, tho it could’ve just been speculation I guess, but either way yeah big similarities there lol.
tbh I think we’re supposed to think the possibility exists for Guts to become an apostle, but not a Godhand, since a new member only joins up once every 200 something years. But I personally don’t think it’s going to happen.
But Femto/NeoGriff opposing the rest of the Godhand, now that’s something I think is a possibility. Void is sketchy as fuck, he seems to know more than the rest of the Godhand, and he’s got ultimate big bad written all over him. Plus Miura hinted that he’s going to be really relevant. Add in the fact that theoretically there must’ve been 5 other Godhand members 1000 years ago (since one of them can only incarnate every 1000 years, and this must’ve happened more than once to be a recognized cycle) so Godhands don’t last forever, and ngl I do wonder if there’s going to be a conflict between NeoGriff and the Godhand.
And that’s not a stupid question. Like, I don’t think Femto and NeoGriff are in conflict, but I absolutely wonder if NeoGriff has some inner conflict going on with his reawakened emotions, whatever they are. So if that’s the case I wouldn’t really describe that as NeoGriffith vs Femto so much as the last vestiges of human Griffith vs Femto/NeoGriff, but hey that’s just semantics, no one knows wtf is going on with NeoGriff internally or whether he’s distinct from Femto, etc. So I guess “maybe” is my actual answer to that, haha.
Thanks for the ask, idk there’s lots to think and wonder about. I can’t wait til Miura starts actually like, revealing stuff and getting the plot going again lol.
The way Miura wrote the story I’d say Guts is by far the stronger and more relatable character. Unfortunately Casca really gets the “the token chick” treatment where her whole story and all her issues and half her personality is about being a woman surrounded by men, and written by a dude, so yk, I don’t blame anyone for being unable to relate to her lol, and personal preference is whatever, so it’s not like you should have to like her just because you’re a girl.
And I definitely agree that Casca should develop on her own, away from Guts. The way she jumped straight from being overinvested in Griffith and his dream to being overinvested in Guts and his dream was pretty fucked up imo, and a sign that she needs to get independent.
But I’d have to disagree with you about their respective feelings, because while I think they both felt genuine affection for the other, neither of them felt genuine love, and I’d say even moreso than Casca did, Guts consistently prioritized/s Griffith over her.
cut for length
Rather than staying and supporting her he still wants to go out to become Griffith’s equal, and this is how he invites her along when Casca is outraged by his priorities:
which is pretty far from romantic or commital lol.
While Casca is jealous of Charlotte during the rescue, Guts’ reaction is basically, well that kinda sucks but lbr I got it even worse than she does so it’s not like I can blame her:
When they find Griffith this is the next thing he says to Casca:
During the Eclipse this is what Guts does when he sees the Band, including Casca, about to be eaten by monsters:
And of course after the Eclipse he dumps her in a cave for two years to pursue Griffith/continue pursuing his dream of fighting stronger and stronger opponents and therefore being Griffith’s friend/equal, once again prioritizing Griffith:
When he finally does end up sticking with her to take her to Elfhelm, this is how he makes that decision:
This is what he’s thinking about when he starts off on his journey:
and of course i’d be remiss if i didn’t mention how Griffith grabbing Guts’ attention away from rescuing Casca is framed:
AND then there’s the whole Beast of Darkness fiasco.
And even when they’re on the boat, he’s still planning to run back to Griffith once his sidequest with Casca is over:
Idk basically I would argue that Guts is by far shittier to Casca than Casca is to Guts, and neither are genuinely all that invested in their potential relationship. It’s a rebound for both, an attempt to get over Griffith that doesn’t work for either, but in fairness to Casca she tried, and even when she decided to stay with Griffith she told Guts to leave because she was prioritizing his stupid dream lol, while Guts’ investment in becoming worthy of being Griffith’s friend had him refusing to stay and suggesting Casca come with him only insofar as she doesn’t fuck up his dream from the very start.
So, less one-sided, and more no-sided lol.
Anyway this is Guts uncomfortably identifying with Casca’s worshipful admiration (which we are later told is a romantic crush) of Griffith. Like we get a …. shot of Guts looking broody every time Casca starts waxing poetic.
Uncomfortably because he wants to be Griffith’s equal and he feels like he’s looking up at him while Griffith is looking down.
And THIS is either Guts thinking Casca is wrong about how Griffith feels about him, or (more likely imo) being moody because he thinks Casca deserves her place at Griffith’s side more than he does, because she has a dream to live for.
It leads to the 100 man fight, which he spends thinking about how pointless it is because he’s swinging his sword for no other reason but to swing it, and gets Casca to escape because she has something more to live for than he does. Which then leads to campfire of dreams, where he concludes that everyone has a dream except for him, says compared to what Casca and Griffith have to live for nothing he does is important, so he’d better leave to find one so he can be worthy of standing beside Griffith.
Casca and Guts have been rivals for Griffith’s affections, that’s their main relationship up til now. But this is the point where Guts concludes that he’s lost the fight, and starts throwing them together while he prepares to bow out, at least til he can come back feeling worthy of Griffith.
me too god it’s getting to the point where guts’ parts of the story actually annoy me
yeaaaah. i mean for the last million chapters guts’ story has been fighting boring seaweed looking monsters in the middle of the ocean, annoying pirates, round like 3 of using the armour but not quite falling under its influence thanks to schierke yadda yadda yadda, then elfhelm which i find cloyingly wholesome, and now we’re in casca’s mind about to revisit the eclipse which isn’t something i’m particularly looking forward to either
so far the highlights have been farnese and p much only farnese imo
2/2 So I’m a bit puzzled and I am wondering about your
interpretation, if you’ve already written a meta about that scene. What I
think is that Guts definitely sees Griffith romantically so he was
doubly heartbroken after hearing that he doesn’t see him as a friend or
equal, so he wanted to leave in order to make him care about him
seriously. But Griffith already loves Guts and respects him, so his
speech is a bit contradictory. Sorry for the long ask btw I love your
blog 🙂
Hi there 🙂 Yk, I don’t think I actually have really talked about this scene in much depth.
My general default reading of Guts and Griffith’s relationship is that they are both romantically in love with each other but neither of them actually realize that they are. (Well, I don’t think Guts has ever quite realized it, at least not consciously, but I do think that Griffith figured it out during his year of torture.)
So in my opinion, Griffith meant his friendship speech.
I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that the conversation that comes right before the assassination attempt and then Griffith’s speech in the narrative included this exchange:
Griffith asking Guts to assassinate Julius was, in a way, a gesture of friendship. It was a request for Guts to do this for him, as a favour for a friend rather than an order from a superior, and Guts picked up on Griffith’s careful phrasing and accidentally rebuffed him. I think Guts meant this as a lighthearted joke, but while we don’t get to see Griffith’s reaction to it, I’m willing to bet he took it as a rejection.
Maybe not even a purposeful rejection – but certainly a sign that Guts doesn’t see him as a friend, but sees him as a superior first. I think this leads directly to Griffith’s speech to Charlotte where he proclaims that he has no equals. Like, it’s completely accurate, whether or not it’s arrogant as well – people either look up at him as a saviour or symbol of their ability to rise in the world, or look down on him as a symbol of corruption in the system.
I also think there’s another important aspect to his speech.
What he describes to Charlotte as a friend is someone who has his own dream, separate from Griffith’s, and would pursue it even if it meant clashing with him.
To Griffith, whose life revolves around his dream and who frames things like that because it’s how he sees the world, what this translates to is that a friend is someone who won’t die in service to his dream.
I think he tries to keep an emotional distance between himself and his Hawks because, frankly, they tend to die in battle, and it fucks him up (as we see in Casca’s flashback to the dead kid and the morning after Gennon.)
So he says the Hawks aren’t his friends because he can’t think of them that way. They see him as a perfect leader, he sees them as people who he will one day send to their deaths, simply by ordering them into whichever battle eventually kills them.
So when Guts re-establishes that he sees Griffith as a leader and tells him to order him to do things instead of requesting favours, it’s a reminder to Griffith to distance himself.
Of course, it doesn’t actually work. He can’t turn off his feelings for Guts even if he tries to ignore and downplay them (also see: I had no reason at all for risking my life for you. He can acknowledge that yeah, he did do that, but he can’t acknowledge why – because he loves him – not even to himself.) Guts is still the only person who Griffith allows to see and participate in the shady shit he does to rise to the top, the stuff that makes him feel dirty. He still risks his life for Guts. He still sends a search party after Guts and Casca despite going against the wishes of the nobles he’s supposed to be sucking up to, and then ditches an important meeting to see them in person. He still expresses concern for Guts’ safety before the Battle of Doldrey. And he crashes and burns harder than anyone has ever crashed and burned after Guts leaves lol.
(Now there is an obvious contradiction in that Griffith wants to be Guts friend and equal rather than the superior who will send him to his death eventually, but also won’t let him leave the Hawks, but that’s plain old fear of rejection imo, and not understanding Guts’ reasons for leaving, and an irrational emotional implosion lol.)
AND I think there’s a third aspect that ought to be explored: Griffith can only call an equal who would fight for his own dream a friend because this definition allows him to continue prioritizing his dream. To save Guts’ life at the risk to his own, rather than let Guts be killed for his dream, is, at its core, a betrayal of his dream, and the thousands of people who’ve died for it. But if his “friend” was an “equal” with his own obsessive dream, then in theory he’d never have to choose between his friend and his dream – it would be understood that their respective dreams would be prioritized. Another reason for the “and should anyone trample that dream he would oppose him body and soul… even if that threat were me myself” clause.
At the end of the day Griffith already loves and respects Guts, of course – he has from day one – but he can’t admit that yet, not even to himself, imo, because it’s a serious, serious threat to everything he’s built his life around.
Tbh I feel like there’s a lot more to say on this topic, especially how and why Griffith represses and denies his feelings for Guts, and what his dream means to him, etc, but I think I’m definitely going to end up writing a long ass analytical post about him soon because I’m really feeling all this nitty gritty Griffith stuff at the moment lol. But yeah when it comes to Promrose Hall I think this is pretty much my thoughts on what Griffith’s speech is about.
Anyway, thanks for the message, I love talking about this kinda stuff 🙂 And ty I’m glad you enjoy my blog.
I love love looooooove Griffith’s immediate reaction to finding out Guts intends to leave. At that point I don’t think he had forgotten about Guts boss-zoning him, and him wanting to just … leave without a goddamn word only rubbed salt into that wound. In my opinion, along with impulsive irrationality fueled by pure fear, this is one of the reasons he so quickly resorted to basically saying “You can’t leave because I own you.” It’s spiteful out of hurt–if you’re going to treat me like a stranger, then I’m going to treat you like one too.
Yessss ia! And I also think that along those lines, while Griffith might not have been like hugely devastated Guts’ apparent rejection of his attempt to lower that barrier of commander/soldier between them at the time (yk he might’ve taken it as the light joke it was meant to be as well as just an incidental reminder that that’s not their relationship), after he learned that Guts wanted to leave I’ll bet he replayed that moment in his head and it turned into Guts asking to be ordered because he wouldn’t do it as a friend.
Like a judgement – I won’t voluntarily do this abhorrent dirty work for you, but I’ll do it if you order me to because I’m a soldier.
Griffith asking him instead of ordering him imo had another level of wanting Guts’ acceptance of his “dirty side.” It was a show of trust.
So I could def see “wrest yourself away by your sword,” coming from a place of spite + desperation from that angle too. You’ll only stay by my side if I order you to? Then that’s what I’ll do.
this is absolutely on purpose, miura can be a great writer when he wants to
Yeah ia. There are a lot of rly ambiguous NGriff moments that seemed designed to make the reader go “ooooh what is he thinking,” so I can’t believe he’s annoyingly serene and inscruitable by accident.
like these days I prefer his narrative to Guts’ just bc I find the secondary characters more interesting, the themes/philosophy more interesting, and I love those little hinting moments, like the way we don’t get to see his expression when Rickert shoots him down and takes off, but I’m getting impatient for the reveal of what’s actually going on in his head lol.
2/2 So I’m a bit puzzled and I am wondering about your
interpretation, if you’ve already written a meta about that scene. What I
think is that Guts definitely sees Griffith romantically so he was
doubly heartbroken after hearing that he doesn’t see him as a friend or
equal, so he wanted to leave in order to make him care about him
seriously. But Griffith already loves Guts and respects him, so his
speech is a bit contradictory. Sorry for the long ask btw I love your
blog 🙂
Hi there 🙂 Yk, I don’t think I actually have really talked about this scene in much depth.
My general default reading of Guts and Griffith’s relationship is that they are both romantically in love with each other but neither of them actually realize that they are. (Well, I don’t think Guts has ever quite realized it, at least not consciously, but I do think that Griffith figured it out during his year of torture.)
So in my opinion, Griffith meant his friendship speech.
I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that the conversation that comes right before the assassination attempt and then Griffith’s speech in the narrative included this exchange:
Griffith asking Guts to assassinate Julius was, in a way, a gesture of friendship. It was a request for Guts to do this for him, as a favour for a friend rather than an order from a superior, and Guts picked up on Griffith’s careful phrasing and accidentally rebuffed him. I think Guts meant this as a lighthearted joke, but while we don’t get to see Griffith’s reaction to it, I’m willing to bet he took it as a rejection.
Maybe not even a purposeful rejection – but certainly a sign that Guts doesn’t see him as a friend, but sees him as a superior first. I think this leads directly to Griffith’s speech to Charlotte where he proclaims that he has no equals. Like, it’s completely accurate, whether or not it’s arrogant as well – people either look up at him as a saviour or symbol of their ability to rise in the world, or look down on him as a symbol of corruption in the system.
I also think there’s another important aspect to his speech.
What he describes to Charlotte as a friend is someone who has his own dream, separate from Griffith’s, and would pursue it even if it meant clashing with him.
To Griffith, whose life revolves around his dream and who frames things like that because it’s how he sees the world, what this translates to is that a friend is someone who won’t die in service to his dream.
I think he tries to keep an emotional distance between himself and his Hawks because, frankly, they tend to die in battle, and it fucks him up (as we see in Casca’s flashback to the dead kid and the morning after Gennon.)
So he says the Hawks aren’t his friends because he can’t think of them that way. They see him as a perfect leader, he sees them as people who he will one day send to their deaths, simply by ordering them into whichever battle eventually kills them.
So when Guts re-establishes that he sees Griffith as a leader and tells him to order him to do things instead of requesting favours, it’s a reminder to Griffith to distance himself.
Of course, it doesn’t actually work. He can’t turn off his feelings for Guts even if he tries to ignore and downplay them (also see: I had no reason at all for risking my life for you. He can acknowledge that yeah, he did do that, but he can’t acknowledge why – because he loves him – not even to himself.) Guts is still the only person who Griffith allows to see and participate in the shady shit he does to rise to the top, the stuff that makes him feel dirty. He still risks his life for Guts. He still sends a search party after Guts and Casca despite going against the wishes of the nobles he’s supposed to be sucking up to, and then ditches an important meeting to see them in person. He still expresses concern for Guts’ safety before the Battle of Doldrey. And he crashes and burns harder than anyone has ever crashed and burned after Guts leaves lol.
(Now there is an obvious contradiction in that Griffith wants to be Guts friend and equal rather than the superior who will send him to his death eventually, but also won’t let him leave the Hawks, but that’s plain old fear of rejection imo, and not understanding Guts’ reasons for leaving, and an irrational emotional implosion lol.)
AND I think there’s a third aspect that ought to be explored: Griffith can only call an equal who would fight for his own dream a friend because this definition allows him to continue prioritizing his dream. To save Guts’ life at the risk to his own, rather than let Guts be killed for his dream, is, at its core, a betrayal of his dream, and the thousands of people who’ve died for it. But if his “friend” was an “equal” with his own obsessive dream, then in theory he’d never have to choose between his friend and his dream – it would be understood that their respective dreams would be prioritized. Another reason for the “and should anyone trample that dream he would oppose him body and soul… even if that threat were me myself” clause.
At the end of the day Griffith already loves and respects Guts, of course – he has from day one – but he can’t admit that yet, not even to himself, imo, because it’s a serious, serious threat to everything he’s built his life around.
Tbh I feel like there’s a lot more to say on this topic, especially how and why Griffith represses and denies his feelings for Guts, and what his dream means to him, etc, but I think I’m definitely going to end up writing a long ass analytical post about him soon because I’m really feeling all this nitty gritty Griffith stuff at the moment lol. But yeah when it comes to Promrose Hall I think this is pretty much my thoughts on what Griffith’s speech is about.
Anyway, thanks for the message, I love talking about this kinda stuff 🙂 And ty I’m glad you enjoy my blog.
I think you’ve got it backwards – Eggman with the brand on his tongue swallowed the fetus which became Griffith’s new corporeal body.
Since Eggman sacrificed the world to become an apostle, I think the brand appears on him because he’s the vehicle that creates the new world (Griffith), and he’s destroyed in the process – in a way he sacrificed himself.
But the brand isn’t on Griffith, I don’t think, unless Eggman also became a part of him. But I think he’s just the egg that hatched him, lol. Idk it’s weird so this is just my educated guess, I don’t really get what even happened haha.
Really? Like, I feel like that’s inarguably canon.
It’s directly and unambiguously what causes him to break from reality and hallucinate the whole dream chasing thing, then try to kill himself when he imagines a future with neither dream, nor Guts.
(Also like, how much do I love and want to cry about the way that brief vision of a future with Casca revolves around Guts’ absence? “I wonder if he’s still swinging his sword around somewhere.” Naming her kid Guts. “WIth you and the boy… Just the three of us,” as she seemingly leans in to kiss him. It’s heartbreaking tbh.)
Anyway ty, I’m all about loving Griffith on this blog lol, he’s one of my favourite characters in general so no judgement here 🙂
lol yeah this is exactly how I feel. like idk we’re so shut out of his head after that one “oh no I’m feeling things” moment that he’s totally mysterious so I can’t really feel anything about him, because I don’t know anything about him.
I’m sure there’s something going on in his head, since the last thing we saw was his heart bthumping, but until we know more he’s pretty boring.
and his constant serenity and the way he’s so flawless is kind of annoying lol.
Well we don’t know how much of his life and general existence utilizes fate/magic/whatever so that’s fair.
Also I may not have phrased my response very well, because I def don’t think he’s acting just like an unchanged Griffith. And I totally agree that NeoGriff is super boring in comparison to Griffith in a way, because everything is easy to him.
But idk I think that NeoGriff is charismatic – like eg saying “i must ask, once again, your pardon, princess charlotte” when he rescues her is a ridiculously good line. His response to her army camp baking is exactly what she would’ve wanted to hear, he’s super pleasant and likeable, and we see the ways he makes himself that way with what he says and how he acts.
I guess the real question is whether he magically knows exactly what to say or do to get the response he wants, or whether it’s a mix of that and actual social skill, or whether it’s just skill but now that he’s an inhuman god who can’t be harmed he’s able to make full use of it without human weaknesses holding him back.
And it could be any of those options, so I don’t think you’re wrong, it definitely could be that he’s using god magic to do everything perfectly. I just prefer to think it’s 2 or 3 because it’s more interesting to me. If everything NeoGriff does is just going with the flow of fate and being able to see the future or whatever then I’d be disappointed because that’s super boring. But we know that he needs the help of his psychic to see the flow of battle, so he can’t be completely all-knowing, right?
okay further on this point which is also in the blurb on the back of this volume, “brought to his knees by his first defeat” isn’t saying he’s so wounded that guts physically won their duel– I give griffith more credit for knowing guts strength– the defeat is guts leaving and griffith being unable to stop that/not having planned for it at all
right like this is one line out of like 20 of casca and others saying griffith was fucked up because guts left – this just underscores that Guts leaving was a defeat. Yk, like he’s defeated emotionally by this turn of events, not that he’s devasted just because he lost a duel lol. Guts leaving happens along with his first ‘defeat in battle’ to emphasize the emotional significance of Guts leaving and how unprecedented Griffith’s feelings here are, it doesn’t contradict the million other times ppl described him as totally gone to pieces because Guts abandoned him
but berserk fans always take this one line out of context and ignore everything else 😡
I don’t think he can transform into Femto, but I think Ganeshka saw him as Femto because he’d ascended into a higher plane of existence, in which he could see NeoGriffith for what he truly was.
So when we saw him as Femto during the scene where he killed Ganeshka and broke the world, it was because that’s what Ganeshka (and probs Skull Knight) saw. Like his true spiritual form, kinda thing.
Femto is a dick, yes, but tbf NeoGriffith has a ton of charisma. The way I see it, Femto didn’t need to be charismatic because he was a god on another playing field whose only peers were other completely dickish and shitty gods lol, like, when you only have Slan, Conrad, Ubik, and Void to hang out with, there’s no point in being charismatic. But as NeoGriffith he has a reason to be charming. I’m sure magic/fate/whatever also plays a part, but I also think part of it is just his natural Griffith-ness coming back to the fore. NeoGriffith is like what Griffith wished he was – perfectly charismatic, the absolute perfect image of a perfect king. Human Griffith did pretty well in that arena, so it stands to reason that NeoGriffith retained that charisma, and is making use of it again, with the added perfection that comes from being a god incarnate.
I never really thought about Femto being modeled after Guts. In the Black Swordsman arc he’s swole as fuck lol but I think that’s just the art before Miura really figured out the vibe he wanted. Everyone was huge in the Black Swordsman arc lol. During the Eclipse he’s slimmed down a bit, and then moreso in our glimpse of him with Ganeshka. I think it’s an interesting explanation though, and I dig it as a headcanon.
And as a contrast to his fragile helpless human body when he made the sacrifice it def makes sense for him to be reborn as a much more powerful, physically intimidating figure.
Someone with the brand of sacrifice can’t be sacrificed again, but there’s nothing saying they can’t use a behelit. And since the implication is that Guts might use the behelit at some point – Flora says it could be his – it follows that Casca could also potentially use it.
She wouldn’t be able to sacrifice Guts, because in the Black Swordsman Arc the Godhand said that you can’t sacrifice someone who’s already been sacrificed, but she could sacrifice Farnese (which would suck) or I’ve suggested maybe the Moonlight Boy (which imo would be awesome but I never rly liked that kid lol).
And yeah I totally agree that Casca telling Guts to leave totally fucked Griffith up and was like, the last straw that lead to his break from reality and then suicide attempt.
I mean come on, right? Guts leaving lead directly to Griffith essentially burning down his life by sleeping with Charlotte (whether that was intentional and conscious or whether it was subconscious is up to interpretation, but either way it wasn’t an accident), then he hung onto his sanity by a thread through a year of torture solely by thinking about Guts and his feelings for him, then he was rescued by Guts who cut a bloody swathe through Midland to avenge him and killed a literal monster to defend him, and finally he was lead to believe that Guts was about to leave him again, while he was totally helpless and had absolutely nothing else in his life.
And then finally Guts’ touch caused him to feel the kind of despair that makes you to want to destroy the person causing it and become a monster just so you won’t feel it again.
Like, that’s a hell of an emotional roller coaster revolving around one person.
Goddamn don’t you just love this fucking story? God.
Password: Enough
Happy New Year everyone, I’m ringing it in by finally posting the fruits of me getting way too into a vid that was only supposed to be a fun evening of playing around on Premiere.
It’s set to an Avril Lavigne song and it’s earnest about it. Enjoy!
LOL probably. they tend to do this in anime adaptations–cut out the scenes that are just a little too homo, and add new ones that play up the main het romance. happened with shingeki no kyojin
with complex characters like these there’s always that risk that the anime staff is going to try to assign them a trope. i think that happened with guts and casca
oops i missed this the other day. but yeah it def feels like that’s what happened. and ngl I also kind of wonder if they thought G*tsca was too sudden in the manga lol, and felt it needed more build up.
It was the last time Griffith decided to keep what’s most precious and preventing him from reaching his goals.
oh man, you know especially considering the godhand had already pretty much explained everything (you’ll sacrifice everyone here and become a god, cool huh?) this really is like, the last time Griffith chose him over his dream.
Idk if this is a prediction or wishful thinking lol, but if I had to lay down a bet I think she’s going to wake up, have all the Eclipse related betrayal and despair and trauma hit her, and use the behelit, then go for revenge herself. I’ve been theorizing this for a while and tbh I haven’t come up with anything better yet so I’m still going with it.
My hopes for her getting a happy ending away from Guts are essentially zero, especially since reading in an interview that Miura only had her survive the Eclipse so Guts wouldn’t be able to fully move on.
And I’m assuming that Skull Knight’s warnings are going to come to something other than Casca being prickly for a while before hooking back up with Guts or w/e, then getting killed to make him want revenge again. Dramatic shudder.
So what I really want is for her to finally, finally react to what happened to her, and for that reaction to be epic as fuck.
I also think it’s plausible because:
there’ve been a lot of ominous shots of the behelit recently
flora specifically suggested guts might be carrying it for someone else
guts revenge quest was bad for him partially because it wasn’t his right to avenge the hawks after abandoning them, but if anyone earned some vengeance it’s casca
griffith instinctively acted to save casca once, giving him a huge weakness against her
“What will she do if she does get her sanity back?” Just sounds so delightfully ominous and suggests Casca actively doing something Guts wouldn’t like.
guts’ revenge quest is played out imo, time for something new. also seeing casca decide to go full monster in her rage would probably fuck him up and wake up the beast of darkness, so it would still motivate him to do something
honestly there’s some great stuff with morality and apostles just waiting to be explored and seeing a beloved character turn into one would be really interesting
Casca’s strong, badass, and her anger manifests in violent lashing out making her a perfect candidate to take over the revenge stuff.
I think Guts hasn’t really given up on the idea of revenge yet – he was still fantasizing about going back after Griffith while on the boat – but it would be pretty anticlimatic if Casca just stuck around in Elfhelm to recover while Guts went “ok side quest over, back to the main quest now,” so I’m sure there’s going to be something more to it.
And I like the idea of Casca taking over the revenge quest and Guts maybe re-evaluating himself, his motives, etc, while fucked up once again because things went south and he did something with mostly good intentions and everything got all fucked up anyway.
Like tbh I think that the conflict as it’s set up now, ie revenge = bad, helping Casca = good, is much, much too simplistic for a story like Berserk. It’s boring lol, whether it ends up tragic and Guts backslides back into revenge, whether he continues doing the “right” thing and chooses Casca over it, it’s still black and white. In the Golden Age there were no easy right or wrong options – eg Guts thought he was doing the right thing by leaving, turned out to be a huge mistake that fucked everything up, and I really liked that. I think the current arc has the potential to be similar which would be great imo.
Guts isn’t helping Casca solely out of the goodness of his heart, he’s doing it because he wants the old Casca back despite misgivings and warnings that he might be going about it the wrong way – and he’s doing it to distract himself from revenge, and also from the fact that he’s not so gung-ho about revenge now that Griffith looks human again. Imo. It doesn’t have to be as simple as revenge = bad, magical therapy = good, and looking closely at Guts’ motivations makes me wonder and hope that, like the Golden Age, a seemingly positive choice could have negative consequences, and the secret actual right choice is dealing with your many issues, Guts, instead of running off for a dream, or revenge, or to “force” someone’s sanity back.
@metalbutter that’s the going assumption but i have an extremely unlikely pipe dream that maybe she could sacrifice moonlight boy
it
would feel more symbolic of losing whatever romantic family potential
w/ guts there theoretically was, whereas sacrificing farnese just feels
like the only possible choice available and therefore not significant
enough on a narrative scale, since Guts can’t be sacrificed twice. plus
there’s this sequence of panels way back when:
i mean that’s kind of ominous right?
plus apostles sacrifice some weird shit sometimes, like eggman sacrificing “the world.” a ghost kid doesn’t seem like too much of a stretch after that.
Idk if this is a prediction or wishful thinking lol, but if I had to lay down a bet I think she’s going to wake up, have all the Eclipse related betrayal and despair and trauma hit her, and use the behelit, then go for revenge herself. I’ve been theorizing this for a while and tbh I haven’t come up with anything better yet so I’m still going with it.
My hopes for her getting a happy ending away from Guts are essentially zero, especially since reading in an interview that Miura only had her survive the Eclipse so Guts wouldn’t be able to fully move on.
And I’m assuming that Skull Knight’s warnings are going to come to something other than Casca being prickly for a while before hooking back up with Guts or w/e, then getting killed to make him want revenge again. Dramatic shudder.
So what I really want is for her to finally, finally react to what happened to her, and for that reaction to be epic as fuck.
I also think it’s plausible because:
there’ve been a lot of ominous shots of the behelit recently
flora specifically suggested guts might be carrying it for someone else
guts revenge quest was bad for him partially because it wasn’t his right to avenge the hawks after abandoning them, but if anyone earned some vengeance it’s casca
griffith instinctively acted to save casca once, giving him a huge weakness against her
“What will she do if she does get her sanity back?” Just sounds so delightfully ominous and suggests Casca actively doing something Guts wouldn’t like.
guts’ revenge quest is played out imo, time for something new. also seeing casca decide to go full monster in her rage would probably fuck him up and wake up the beast of darkness, so it would still motivate him to do something
honestly there’s some great stuff with morality and apostles just waiting to be explored and seeing a beloved character turn into one would be really interesting
Casca’s strong, badass, and her anger manifests in violent lashing out making her a perfect candidate to take over the revenge stuff.
I think Guts hasn’t really given up on the idea of revenge yet – he was still fantasizing about going back after Griffith while on the boat – but it would be pretty anticlimatic if Casca just stuck around in Elfhelm to recover while Guts went “ok side quest over, back to the main quest now,” so I’m sure there’s going to be something more to it.
And I like the idea of Casca taking over the revenge quest and Guts maybe re-evaluating himself, his motives, etc, while fucked up once again because things went south and he did something with mostly good intentions and everything got all fucked up anyway.
Like tbh I think that the conflict as it’s set up now, ie revenge = bad, helping Casca = good, is much, much too simplistic for a story like Berserk. It’s boring lol, whether it ends up tragic and Guts backslides back into revenge, whether he continues doing the “right” thing and chooses Casca over it, it’s still black and white. In the Golden Age there were no easy right or wrong options – eg Guts thought he was doing the right thing by leaving, turned out to be a huge mistake that fucked everything up, and I really liked that. I think the current arc has the potential to be similar which would be great imo.
Guts isn’t helping Casca solely out of the goodness of his heart, he’s doing it because he wants the old Casca back despite misgivings and warnings that he might be going about it the wrong way – and he’s doing it to distract himself from revenge, and also from the fact that he’s not so gung-ho about revenge now that Griffith looks human again. Imo. It doesn’t have to be as simple as revenge = bad, magical therapy = good, and looking closely at Guts’ motivations makes me wonder and hope that, like the Golden Age, a seemingly positive choice could have negative consequences, and the secret actual right choice is dealing with your many issues, Guts, instead of running off for a dream, or revenge, or to “force” someone’s sanity back.
Pardon my bad writing English isn’t my language I’m not fluent, cheers from Ukraine.
Yes! At least that’s absolutely how I understand his character, and it’s like my favourite thing about him.
I get what you mean about Griffith being suprising, like if you assume something about him a later action will contradict it. I feel like to me he makes perfect sense, but only after reading the manga twice in a row and spending way too much time thinking about his narrative lol.
At face value he seems very contradictory because he tends to lie to himself, and the way he gets more complicated as the story goes on also tends to throw people off. Yk like we start out with this impression of him as a powerful charismatic leader driven towards a goal and willing to kill to get there, distant and above everyone else, but the more we learn about him – about his past and his insecurities and guilt and self loathing and feelings for Guts etc etc – the more layers we uncover, and the more we see that first impression is… not wrong exactly, but there’s a LOT more going on beneath the surface, and most of it is pretty depressing.
And like, he’s an unreliable narrator about himself, which can also make him hard to figure out. Imo Miura did a great job writing a character who doesn’t even understand his own motivations and emotions and making him understandable to the audience, but it’s still really easy to miss a lot of the complexities.
Also same! I really feel like we’re heading towards a big emotional reveal for NeoGriffith and I can’t wait.
tbh I’m thinking I might write a much more thorough meta post about his narrative/character soon. I want to talk about this more lol it’s like my favourite Berserk related topic. And it’s been a while since I got in-depth about something here, so keep an eye open if you’re interested!
And not to mention those moments that were cut were supposed to humanize Griffith and make him more relatable and fun. Anime and films made him look just cruel and cunning.
yeahhhh
tbh i feel like there are a lot of rly minor, seemingly insignificant tweaks that end up making the story feel much flatter overall. In the anime I mean, the movies just full on cut most of Griffith’s character out lol.
But like, little things like how he looks angry rather than regretful when Guts is about to kill the hired goons in tombstone of flame, or how we don’t see his face on “do you think I’m cruel?” or losing the moment where Guts remembers him asking him not to tell the Hawks about the assassinations, etc, all add up to less depth and less understanding and sympathy.
Also Guts tends to look way more dour imo, like his default expression is much pissier in the anime than the manga, which makes him seem low-key resentful constantly and kills a lot of the chemistry between Griffith and Guts in significant scenes. Also a bunch of his super fond wistful thinking-about-Griffith smiles are gone lol. I’m sure that helps contribute to the idea that anything between them is one-sided.
And then there are the filler scenes added just so Guts can do something useful and Casca can act like a tsundere, playing up Guts and Casca in a rly cliched way.
Also no flashback to Guts during sex with Charlotte, and his scratch marks are interpreted as a giant scar which doesn’t make any sense – there’s no reason for him to be clutching a mysterious scar and crying, but we’ve seen him self harm before so like, whoever made that call fucked up.
Ooh the torture – the scene that happens after Griffith has spent about one day in the dungeon in the manga instead happens right before Guts returns which really makes his suffering in the anime seem diminished in comparison.
Also Guts’ sparks speech to Casca is turned into half an episode of him chilling with Godo, which means that his dream of fighting people and swinging his sword forever is treated as completely noble and manly by the narrative, because we don’t get Casca’s immediate “you sound like a fucking asshole” counterpoint. Casca’s angry reaction is instead solely a reaction to Guts saying he’s leaving again, not to his whole “dream,” which also makes her look worse.
Idk this turned into a list bc I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently lol. The anime does a lot of things rly well too, but idk I definitely feel like I interpret the story pretty differently to whoever made it.
i’m also rly feeling the loss of cute incidental moments like griffith shoving the kama sutra in guts’ face and guts patting him on the back in tombstone of flame lol
yk the anime is a good guide to how to copy really gay scenes shot for shot and suck the homoeroticism right out of them
ugh tho.
you're the only one 