Tag: b

chaoticgaygriffith:

chaoticgaygriffith:

fa and i were talking the other day about certain people who (imo) misinterpret griffith’s character to be all about power & control … i think that’s a very stupid but also very interesting character analysis and i think i understand where it comes from lol

what baffles me is how people miss all the not so subtle hints that griffith actually cares. but i guess when you’ve already adopted a point of view, your brain shifts reality to fit it. no one’s exempt from that, really

so griffith is the commander (? idk these titles, sorry if i got it wrong, i’m gay) of the band of the hawk, clearly likes being in control, i won’t deny that. ‘claimed’ guts at least partially due to his strength and fighting ability, schemed behind the scenes a lot, eventually when guts tried to leave he wouldn’t let him, all true. but did he break because he wasn’t in control anymore? well, in a way, i guess, i say with my voice going really high. the real conflict of his character was the contest between his dream, motivated by childish desires and guilt, and guts, the only man who made him forget all about it. guts made him lose his reason, lose control, and he fell apart completely. his raw feelings for guts made him feel so weak and vulnerable it was unbearable.

but even so, what griffith really wanted was guts. the problem was it was already too late. too many people had died. too much time had been wasted. on top of that, guts was no longer a certain and stable presence in his life. he could leave at any moment, again, and griffith wouldn’t be able to stop him, and would have to go through another emotional breakdown.

i don’t know, like. if what you get from that is “griffith is a control freak who throws a fit when he can’t puppet master everyone around him” then i applaud you because that’s an

inconceivable

perspective for me. to me, griffith’s character is about guilt, repression, and an unspeakable love, so strong it made him lose sight of everything else, so intense it shattered him into a million pieces. griffith claims he does things for Logical Reasons, but do you really buy that? when he sold his body to a paedophile, do you really think it was because he just wanted more money? when he decided to throw away his humanity, to bury his fragile heart, do you really think he was doing it strategically? i don’t know, must be nice to not care about anything that truly makes griffith compelling as a character, i bet reading berserk is way less painful then

also a couple of points:

  • as someone has pointed out already, griffith didn’t force guts to join the band of the hawk. he invited him, guts refused, griffith was surprised but didn’t really say anything. and then guts was like, we’ll duel for it, and griffith saw his opportunity and accepted
  • this one’s important: griffith ….. didn’t want to become a king so he could have power and money lol. he wanted to create his own society, where things like class, race, and gender wouldn’t matter, just like they didn’t to the hawks. and that’s clearly the type of kingdom falconia is now.

SAME I feel like the aspect of control and whether Griffith has it or not is completely incidental to his character. I don’t think having control is a priority for him, I don’t think it’s a source of anything or a motivation, I think at most it’s a side effect of the enormity of his dream and the fact that to achieve it he has to be a leader.

Like, he is a leader, he sends people to his death and he owns that fact (partially in a denial of his guilt over that fact imho), he wants to be king, and he has a breakdown when Guts leaves that involves claiming ownership of him, but none of those stem from a place of control-freakiness.

When it comes to Guts Casca gets angry because Griffith doesn’t control him as much as he should as a leader and lets him basically do whatever the hell he wants and plans around it. Griffith is the one who tries to ask Guts to help him as a friend by killing a guy rather than ordering him as a soldier, and Guts is the one who wants it to be an order. Griffith makes a point of letting his Hawks choose to follow him because it’s another way he can deny his guilt for their deaths. (”I guess it’s because… they themselves chose to fight.”) Casca follows him after Griffith tells her “do what you wish” (do whatever tf you want is practically a griffith motto, he says it to corkus in the beginning, p much says it to guts wrt battle tactics, etc.)

Idk I don’t get any sense of needing to be in control from Griffith’s personality, I almost see the opposite in the way he denies responsibility for the Hawks’ deaths, his calm interest when discussing the fact that monsters exist even though Zodd almost killed them, his belief in – and more than that, his strong desire to believe in – fate, etc. “We are all at the mercy of a great tide, fate or whatever you want to call it.”

Refusing to let Guts leave came from emotional desperation and falling back on a previously established dynamic that Guts himself suggested and reinforced because he couldn’t communicate his feelings any other way. Imo.

Oh and also like +1 I think Guts fucked him up partially bc to achieve his dream he has to remain in control of himself and when Guts is involved he totally loses it, but I don’t think he really allowed himself to accept the fact that Guts makes him irrational until the torture chamber. I could see an argument that his emotional repression/denial is a way to remain in control of his feelings, but again I don’t think he lives in denial and repression because he’s a control freak, I think it’s because his dream necessitates it.

“Griffith had to make himself strong.” He doesn’t intrinsically desire to be in control of himself or others, he forces himself to be to achieve his dream, which itself is motivated by guilt.

Griffith falling over while Guts fights Wyald 😂. I don’t understand when Guts see’s Griffith in the dungeon after rescuing him try’s to strangle Guts, but didn’t they say he couldn’t move his hands or anything! Notice also that Charlotte hugs him, he gave no fucks about meanwhile Guts he even held his hand yasss! Didn’t want to be mean about Charlotte, but he didn’t even care when she took that dart for him lol.

Technically with cut tendons he shouldn’t be able to curl his fingers at all, but Miura seemed to just make his grip extremely weak and useless. Anyway it wasn’t a calculated attempt to strangle Guts, it was an emotional reaction so it doesn’t really matter whether he was physically capable of killing him, it just shows us how he’s feeling.

Yeah we didn’t get a close up of him when Charlotte was throwing herself on him so idt his reaction really mattered and probably wasn’t anything special. Though when Charlotte took the dart we got a few close ups of Griffith looking v intent and shocked so I wouldn’t say he didn’t care. I don’t think he cared for her sake, but I think the idea that she would take a dart for him even after he was unable to present himself as a perfect fiancee for her was a surprise.

Plus he’s not super rational and he tells her he’ll come back for her, so I think he may have taken it as a sign that his dream was still a possibility, Charlotte could still marry him, even though if he stopped and thought about it for half a second (and he does later) he’d realize that no his dream is dead and buried. It’s gr8 foreshadowing though.

at the hill of swords I wonder if guts would’ve given neo griffith a deeper reaction had he pressed him on his mental state after their duel when he left the hawks, cause it seems like he can easily compartmentalize the eclipse but he seems to dismiss the idea of himself still feeling for his past life

Ooh good question. Yeah I wonder. Because it’s really unsurprising to me that he has no Eclipse-related regrets, but it would be so interesting to see him confronted with a reminder of how vulnerable he was to his feelings for Guts.

I’ve seen people theorize that NeoGriffith might’ve had Guts leaving him in the snow on his mind and maybe took a little bit of spiteful pleasure in being the one to leave Guts behind this time, which I rly like as an idea, especially with Guts moping about how NeoGriffith “deserted” him, but it’s just a headcanon really.

Idk. I feel like something as small as an involuntary flinch from NeoGriffith would be extremely satisfying at this point, x10 if a reminder of the second duel and his devastating feelings for Guts is the reason for it. Maybe we’ll get to see something like that in the future.

bthump:

image

Not to the Hawks, but “just me and Griffith.“

I love that Guts thinks of the Zodd debacle as something shared between him and Griffith, something they did together, even though they had a troop of Hawks with them.

And I think Griffith thinks of it the same way:

image

His reaction to Wyald’s transformation into a monster is to try to join Guts’ side, to help him face it or save him from it.

(And yeah I have no problem confidentally stating that that’s why Griffith fell over here lol. He tries it again when he tries to tear himself away from the men holding him when Casca is in danger, and before this he’d tried to grab his sword, so.)

Also to add an actual point, the call-backs to Zodd are rly effective in spotlighting Griffith’s helplessness in contrast, as well as spotlighting Guts’ solitary fight against monsters, again in contrast to his first fight beside Griffith.

He saves Casca but they don’t go on to fight Wyald together, he tells her to fuck off and let him do this himself, while Griffith is removed from everyone else watching helplessly from a distance. Without Griffith Guts is alone, and vice versa.

graywitchlilith
replied to your post “graywitchlilith
replied to your post “graywitchlilith
replied to…”

About the tv tropes: It might not just be the homophobic readers. Sometimes I think the authors themselves are in denial of just how romantic the relationships they’ve created are. Like Miura has repeatedly said in interviews that all that “drama” is normal for male friendships, etc. Idk they might say this so the readership doesn’t drop.

Yeah true. When it comes to tv tropes it’s definitely the readers, but yeah lol it’s sadly the exception rather than the rule when a creator doesn’t no homo gay subtext or sometimes straight up text. And yeah ime it’s generally pretty hard to tell whether the denials are sincere or pr.

image

Not to the Hawks, but “just me and Griffith.“

I love that Guts thinks of the Zodd debacle as something shared between him and Griffith, something they did together, even though they had a troop of Hawks with them.

And I think Griffith thinks of it the same way:

image

His reaction to Wyald’s transformation into a monster is to try to join Guts’ side, to help him face it or save him from it.

(And yeah I have no problem confidentally stating that that’s why Griffith fell over here lol. He tries it again when he tries to tear himself away from the men holding him when Casca is in danger, and before this he’d tried to grab his sword, so.)

seisans
replied to your post “Tho incidentally, as an addendum to that last ask, I think the fact…”

i’ve seen ppl speculate that he Let rickert slap him which …. hmm i don’t know about that. he certainly was surprised by it, tho ig he could let his “guard” down unintentionally

I could maybe see Griffith letting Rickert slap him because it doesn’t really matter and he’s letting Rickert give him an honest answer or w/e.

But what really gets me is Griffith’s silence in response to Rickert’s speech about how he’s loyal to his Griffith, not this Griffith. There’s no way that’s calculated, he just had nothing to say. All he’s got is “so it is,” in response to Rickert saying the insignias are different. Idk I love it, I can’t help but read that ambiguous silence as inner conflict and self doubt.

Tho incidentally, as an addendum to that last ask, I think the fact that Griffith is supposed to be untouchable (presumably literally and figuratively) by the vast majority of people means that Rickert being able to slap him and leave him speechless and off-balance is a great big sign that something’s malfunctioning with Griffith and his unfreezing heart.

Which is one reason I think that while no one’s going to be able to murder him or turn Falconia against him directly, there’s a distinct possibility of a future storyline where Griffith fucks himself over because he’s a hot mess.

Griffith is going to pull a fast one on Charlotte put her in another cage she won’t even notice it, her best choice is to escape with Ana. I do contemplate a friendship between Charlotte and Sonia they need each other, unlike Casca that was alone on the Hawks or Falcons Charlotte can be there for Sonia she’s fond of her and Sonia can’t resist Charlotte politeness and kindness. I cringe when Griffith wants to fit in with the nobles of midland cause no matter what he’s still a peasant to them.

Continue- My reasoning for insinuating that Griffith is trying to fit in
and erase the old fedora is because he changed the Band of the Hawks
name to Falcon since he’s marrying into high society, uh the dude will
wake into a rude awakening Charlotte might even dislike Griffith if he
starts changing. The tea compliment what’s next, it’ll get annoying he’s
so fake trying to delete the past yet they don’t see him as their equal
even though he’s worked hard at least when he was human.

Anon
I respect your opinion but I’m running out of ways to say I don’t think
that he’s going to do anything particularly evil or cruel to Charlotte
or the rest of Falconia. I feel like I’ve explained my perspective
pretty thoroughly by now and I can’t think of much else to say on the
topic, so we’re going to have to agree to disagree.

Tho I will say that Hawk -> Falcon is a translation discrepency, the word is the same in Japanese.

You grabbed my curiosity expand your reply about Charlotte not being one
to avoid being a causality to Fem/NeoGriff ? I know that term applies
to Guts and he has his own will but Griffith has fate on his side. Very
confusing, and people undermine Charlotte a lot maybe their dislike is
because she has a thing for Griffith but it was him who suduced her not
the other way around. She’ll bail Miura will create drama he slept with
her next day lmao, I believe Charlotte has bad luck ouch.
       
   

I’m too lazy to find the panels rn but I’m
referring to I think Skull Knight (or possibly Flora) describing
Griffith as untouchable as an author is to the characters in a book. He
exists on a different level, and the reason he went out of his way to
have Flora killed was because she’s one of the few people in the world
capable of potentially moving against him, as a witch who also exists on
a higher level.

My point is just that very few people can do a
thing to impede Griffith’s plans because he’s a god. Guts and Casca may
be able to due to the effect of their brands, maybe Schierke and maybe
even Farnese due to being witches, probably Skull Knight could, but
Charlotte and/or various nobles undoubtedly can’t.

Finally, I just
want to say that I’m occasionally finding it difficult to respond to
your messages since they mostly seem to be more along the lines of lists
of your opinions rather than an attempt to start a dialogue, and I
often have very little to add. I don’t want to discourage anon
messages, I like getting them and I welcome them from everyone, but I
just want to warn you in advance that from now on I might not publish
every one I get if I find I have little to say in response.

If only that were true there’s plenty of Berserk fans that think Femto is not Griffith and it’s an ancient demon inside of Griffith possessing him. Go to YT or Reddit *head shakes* I know because I’ve argued with those Griffith apologies fans. 2Q. What if Charlotte decides to leave Falconia will Griffith have another melt down Charlotte is kind and by trusting but stupid she isn’t. I felt like shit thinking this chick will abandon ship after looking at Griffith skeleton ass lmaooo. I lmao. Dx ok

Huh that’s really weird and random sounding. I don’t really go to youtube or reddit for fandom stuff so yeah never seen that myself.

I don’t think Griffith cares enough about Charlotte to really gaf if she leaves tbh. I’m pretty sure once they’re married he’s king no matter what, so if she suddenly disappeared it wouldn’t really affect his ability to rule, and unless something v surprising happens I doubt she’s going to suddenly change her mind and leave before the wedding.

And anyway NeoGriffith’s got fate on his side and only ppl outside causality can do anything to affect his ability to fulfill humanity’s desires, presumably, and Charlotte isn’t one of those people, so I don’t think he has anything to worry about there. + ia she’s not stupid but she also has no reason to doubt or dislike him right now.

I was really focused on some yikes parts of the fandom so through reading your metas I realized that Miura indeed isn’t trying to sell g*tsca, it’s obvious mutliple times like you’ve said that they are both substituting in GA, plus the sex chapter’s title is licking wounds (iirc? not that subtle). And even later on Guts is trying to make up for his past mistakes w Griffith (the snow scene). Anyway what do you think will happen after Elfheim? Will they remain in the same group or part ways?

I’m glad I made a convincing case lol, ty for reading 😀

Tbh I have a hard time coming up with a solid idea of what might happen. I guess I’m leaning towards the group, or most of the group depending on whether anyone dies or what Casca does when she wakes up, sticking together. It would feel too repetitive if everyone died again or left to do their own subplots and Guts was back to Black Swordsmaning alone imo. Like granted there’s a complication with the armour potentially taking over now, but even so there’s not a lot of drama or intrigue you can wring out of that. Guts is the Beast of Darkness, eventually someone brings him back to himself again, snore. Like unless that someone is Griffith i’m already bored by the idea bc we’ve seen it like 4 times already.

I could maybe see them parting ways temporarily for plot reasons, splitting up to accomplish different things, but I don’t think Farnese, Serpico, Casca, Schierke, Puck, or Isidro are going to be written out of the story anytime soon. I think they’re here til the end, or close to it.

I could easily see Magnifico, Roderick, the knight dude, and the mermaid dying or taking off though. They’ve all had way less development and time and energy spent on their narratives.

Though I also wouldn’t be surprised to be proven wrong, bc yk, anything
could happen when Casca gets her mind back and I’m prepared to be
surprised by whichever direction we end up going in.

Femto is Griffith or else why would he want to become King of Midland and tell Guts that oitnof anyone he should know about his dream. The denial is huge majority fandom deny him being Femto which is wrong, Griffith is Femto they’re one of the same. Only person that can defy him is Guts and Casca child that’s being used by Griffith to achieve hos Utopia world with the desire of humans. Anywho, what kind of King will Griffith be and what political backlash will Griffith face with divergents.

lol the majority of fandom thinks he and femto are exactly the same, i’m pretty sure this corner of tumblr is in the minority.

and yes femto is obviously created from a part of griffith, I don’t think anyone thinks he’s a wholly new character created out of thin air, it’s just a question of where you draw the line. i differentiate between them because they have different personalities and different dominant drives and different motivations (like I don’t think Femto/NeoGriff is motivated by guilt anymore). griffith contained femto, just as guts contains the beast of darkness, but the rest of griffith is gone, or frozen now (give or take a few suggestive bthumpy hints that a part of him still remains buried in femto/neogriffith.)

Also I should let you know that I personally believe blaming the fetus was just NeoGriffith’s way of continuing to deny his actual feelings. I don’t think the fetus actually has much of anything to do with NeoGriffith’s current emotional state, and while I may be proven wrong, I would be very disappointed if I am. So we’re unlikely to agree on that point.

(here are two posts about the neogriffith fetus issue, if you’re interested in more of an explanation)

And I think NeoGriffith is going to keep being a genial, very likeable king tbh. He’ll keep expanding Falconia, welcoming all people to live as equals there, and the majority of Midland and wherever else he expands to are probably going to love him. Any political backlash would be pretty easily quelled – the nobles don’t really have a leg to stand on, they’re vastly outnumbered, and Griff has been declared a saint or w/e and is going to be crowned by the head of the holy see, plus he can’t be harmed by ordinary humans, so I don’t think there’s much they can do even if they resent him.

I’d like to see them sowing some seeds of emotional turmoil for NeoGriffith by reminding him of his life before the Eclipse, maybe moreso now that Rickert has kind of pointed some shit out to him that he couldn’t deny, but I can’t see them affecting the plot much at this point. I mean, maybe if Guts shows up and they help him, but that would be kind of weird lol, and I don’t really see that happening.

hey just wanted to say, for me, it feels like Femto is obviously the epitome of evil but also Griffith’s bad side yk the ugly side we all have, but taken to the extreme? I feel like a lot of ppl who hate on Griffith, especially golden age Griffith for what happened at the eclipse don’t get it. Femto is not him, at least that’s the way I see it. idk if this make sense, what do you think? me thinks griffith would have taken Guts back bc he cant really stay mad but shit happened and now we all cry

chaoticgaygriffith:

bthump:

Yeah, I’d say whether Femto is a different person from Griffith comes down to semantics and what someone considers personhood, but to me undergoing a magical transformation that augments the “evil” in your heart (which, in Berserk, exists in the hearts of all people) and removes the “goodness” or w/e, as visually depicted by literally losing fragments of himself:

makes you different enough that I have no problem mentally separating human Griffith and Femto, and definitely don’t hate Griffith for Femto’s actions, same way I don’t hate Guts for trying to murder his friends when the armour takes over.

If you (general you) wanna hate Griffith for agreeing to sacrifice his friends, or challenging Guts when he left, or w/e, I’ll disagree but I think that’s fair game. But hating him for Femto’s actions after we’re taken step by step through his magical transformation into an entity made out of evil really doesn’t make sense to me.

Also, do you mean Griffith would’ve taken Guts back if he’d returned, say, a year after the duel, like in canon, but Griffith hadn’t gotten caught fucking Charlotte and therefore hadn’t spent that year in a dungeon?

I think Griffith probably would take him back, because he’s desperate and needy and irrational and in love, but I could see an argument where the duel is a big wake-up call to how emotionally compromised he is by his love for Guts, which could make him view Guts as a huge threat lol, and he might refuse to let him return to try to protect himself from his own destructive, dream-endangering feelings.

Though I think it’s also likely that Griffith isn’t that self aware even after the duel, and would still manage to deny his feelings. Like Guts would come back and Griffith would somehow logic himself into returning to their close relationship without admitting to himself that he just really needs Guts in his life. Like, “it’s not because I desperately want him back at my side, it’s because he knows I assassinated the queen and co and therefore I need him as my ally and not my enemy.” Or something along those lines. Though of course his feelings would be that much harder to deny now, and eventually something would have to give.

Or he could be aware of his feelings now, but too far gone to refuse Guts, a la “if I can’t have him, I don’t care!” Like, “ok Guts’ existence could clearly ruin me, but fuck it, he came back and I’ll be damned if I’m letting him leave me again ever.” Which would open its own associated emotional can of worms lol.

lol sorry I love thinking about Griffith’s stupid feelings and how he deals or doesn’t deal with them.

(And now I’m wondering what if Guts turned around and walked back two minutes after leaving Griffith in the snow. I feel like if that was the case Griffith would be incapable of anything but genuine emotional expression, either in the form of being overwhelmed with relief that Guts came back and immediately taking him back, or rage followed by a sobbing breakdown or smthn.

This is a great topic to muse on lol)

I wonder if, if Guts turned around and walked back, if Griffith would be too vulnerable for relief/rage? Like, Guts just almost left, and Griffith made a fool out of himself by completely letting his emotions get the best of him. I feel like anger, pride, and just plain exhaustion might stop him from acting up again, although … they also might not, damn, I don’t think we can know for sure.

Idk the way he falls to the snow and stares into space, unable to even pretend he’s okay for the Hawks who are just standing there awkwardly, personally has me thinking it’s a v rare moment where he’s not capable of self-control. I’d give it maybe a few minutes before he smiles, stands up, and pretends “it’s nothing,” but if Guts caught him before that point I think his reaction would be raw af.

though there’s def some wishful thinking here because it’s a reaction I’d love to see even if I don’t think I can completely picture it.

If Guts caught him after he put the mask on again I think his reaction could be very different. Maybe angry and prideful, maybe something like, “you won your freedom, so gtfo,” something indicating an “i don’t want your pity” kinda feeling, idk. but i’m just throwing headcanons at the wall lol, like I could see a lot of different reactions as ic depending on how it’s depicted.

hey just wanted to say, for me, it feels like Femto is obviously the epitome of evil but also Griffith’s bad side yk the ugly side we all have, but taken to the extreme? I feel like a lot of ppl who hate on Griffith, especially golden age Griffith for what happened at the eclipse don’t get it. Femto is not him, at least that’s the way I see it. idk if this make sense, what do you think? me thinks griffith would have taken Guts back bc he cant really stay mad but shit happened and now we all cry

Yeah, I’d say whether Femto is a different person from Griffith comes down to semantics and what someone considers personhood, but to me undergoing a magical transformation that augments the “evil” in your heart (which, in Berserk, exists in the hearts of all people) and removes the “goodness” or w/e, as visually depicted by literally losing fragments of himself:

image

makes you different enough that I have no problem mentally separating human Griffith and Femto, and definitely don’t hate Griffith for Femto’s actions, same way I don’t hate Guts for trying to murder his friends when the armour takes over.

If you (general you) wanna hate Griffith for agreeing to sacrifice his friends, or challenging Guts when he left, or w/e, I’ll disagree but I think that’s fair game. But hating him for Femto’s actions after we’re taken step by step through his magical transformation into an entity made out of evil really doesn’t make sense to me.

Also, do you mean Griffith would’ve taken Guts back if he’d returned, say, a year after the duel, like in canon, but Griffith hadn’t gotten caught fucking Charlotte and therefore hadn’t spent that year in a dungeon?

I think Griffith probably would take him back, because he’s desperate and needy and irrational and in love, but I could see an argument where the duel is a big wake-up call to how emotionally compromised he is by his love for Guts, which could make him view Guts as a huge threat lol, and he might refuse to let him return to try to protect himself from his own destructive, dream-endangering feelings.

Though I think it’s also likely that Griffith isn’t that self aware even after the duel, and would still manage to deny his feelings. Like Guts would come back and Griffith would somehow logic himself into returning to their close relationship without admitting to himself that he just really needs Guts in his life. Like, “it’s not because I desperately want him back at my side, it’s because he knows I assassinated the queen and co and therefore I need him as my ally and not my enemy.” Or something along those lines. Though of course his feelings would be that much harder to deny now, and eventually something would have to give.

Or he could be aware of his feelings now, but too far gone to refuse Guts, a la “if I can’t have him, I don’t care!” Like, “ok Guts’ existence could clearly ruin me, but fuck it, he came back and I’ll be damned if I’m letting him leave me again ever.” Which would open its own associated emotional can of worms lol.

lol sorry I love thinking about Griffith’s stupid feelings and how he deals or doesn’t deal with them.

(And now I’m wondering what if Guts turned around and walked back two minutes after leaving Griffith in the snow. I feel like if that was the case Griffith would be incapable of anything but genuine emotional expression, either in the form of being overwhelmed with relief that Guts came back and immediately taking him back, or rage followed by a sobbing breakdown or smthn.

This is a great topic to muse on lol)

@chaoticgaygriffith @yesgabsstuff lol you mentioned me but tbh my opinion on this topic is basically exactly what you’re discussing in the comments so, +1

i guess one thing i can throw out tho is that
I kinda think on a narrative level the whole sequence from Guts waking up from his nightmare and then thinking of Griffith with this look in his eyes

image

to Griffith winning and Guts looking at him with the same look in his eyes

image

tells us that
there’s attraction between Guts and Griffith that can’t be
straightforwardly acted on because of their histories.

Like Guts clearly already wants Griffith’s attention despite getting uncomfortable and pissed off when he gets it, and the fact that instead of just walking away he proposes a bet where if he wins he can stab Griffith and if he loses he has to stay with him in a maybe sexual way, and either way they get to get up close and personal with swords and roll around in the grass for a while, seems pretty telling to me.

Idk basically I think Guts subconsciously wants to stay with Griffith and keep
Griffith’s attention on him despite his discomfort, I think attraction
and sexuality seeps into their exchange because, well, it’s there, and I
think rape comes in because that’s what Guts thinks of when he thinks of
men and sexuality (and thanks to the nightmare its on his and the audience’s minds),

and it’s brought up bc it’s a complication that keeps that attraction subconscious and sublimated.

griff-guts
replied to your post “Lucifer and Satan aren’t the same sorry but there aren’t, Satan is…”

in addition to danny’s biblical evidence lemme add that in both dantes divine comedy and miltons paradise lost lucifer = satan, so even if the bible didn’t already explicitly say it, one could draw the conclusion from those works which is tbh where 99% of the cultural understanding of satan and his goals personality etc comes from because there’s actually very little about satan even said in the bible.

v good point.

i mean yeah even if miura is referencing lucifer somewhere i’m very sure it would be the popular conception of him. plus the holy see seems p catholic in particular, speaking of popular conceptions.

craigslost
replied to your post “Lucifer and Satan aren’t the same sorry but there aren’t, Satan is…”

i dont know what this post is referencing (why the diff matters) but *whips out bible* lucifer and satan is the same, lucifer was the name of the angel that thought it’d be cool if he could be equal to or greater than god and satan literally just translates to “the adversary” in hebrew. the adversary as in “that douchebag whomst name we no longer say”. again. dont know why this was relevant but i was forced to be baptist for over a decade, mise well whip out tha know

yeah since the anon mentioned an
occult demonology cult

i feel like this is v much a matter of different interpretations of the bible lol. the context was just whether griffith is a version of satan/lucifer/whatever. but ty i’m just kind of going with the flow and i figure this is the more popular interpretation miura would’ve drawn on for any potential christian references.

Lucifer and Satan aren’t the same sorry but there aren’t, Satan is time he was already in the garden of eden while Lucifer was the one cast down the most beautiful of the Angels. Lucifer was upset God made another creation that was humans he thought we were useless because Angels are perfect while we’re not they’re serving humanity he didn’t like that. The rest is history, Satan is different on the occult demonology cult I was in they worshiped Lucifer not Satan theyre not the same.

Fair enough, I’ll take your word for it then.

Griffith killed his potential rival the Queen Charlotte’s step mother, she was the only one that wasn’t fond of him or thought he was atrative unlike the other royals that were impressed by Griffith charisma and beauty. Miura should do an arc a la The War of the Roses lol. Then again Count Julius can be helpful against Griffith falconia it’ll be interesting the Royals shouldn’t be left out of the conflict they’ll all wouldn’t want a peasant like him to Rule. Miura killed the Queen too soon.

Honestly I would enjoy more political scheming, Griffith assassinating everyone was one of my favourite parts of the Golden Age. Though NeoGriffith is too invulnerable to make it fun for the same reasons now probably.

Guts only motivation for pursuing Griffith is his son that how I see it Casca will want her son as well. Berserk will have such a sad ending Miura did say he wanted a mellow ending with some happiness. Griffith to me seems like Lucifer not Satan, they’re two different entities.

Can’t agree with you there, sorry. As far as I’m aware Guts doesn’t even know there’s a connection between the demon fetus and NeoGriffith, and he never really gave much of a fuck about the fetus anyway iirc beyond being like, personally disturbed by its existence.

And we get a lot of information about Guts’ motivation for pursuing Griffith and it’s all about rage and betrayal and longing and emotional repression (and I would argue guilt), nothing there about the fetus.

Casca, maybe, who knows. She had more of a connection to the thing. She might be motivated by it. It’s as good a prediction as any.

Plz feel free to explain more about how Griffith is like Lucifer and not Satan and how they’re different, because all my knowledge of Christianity tells me they’re the same dude, so I can’t really respond to that assertion.

Griffith marriage with Charlotte isn’t going to be a fairytale as he will like the other royals feel insulted him leading the Midland Royal army. There’s going to be fractions against Griffith maybe the Tudors, also Charlotte drying is possible isn’t he in a campaign who’s watching over Charlotte ? Charlotte might stand out and find out about Griffith she will notice Griffith changed personality he isn’t charming as he was before, and that guy that helped him kill the Queen might ruin his plans.

He’s not currently doing any campaigning, he defeated Ganeshka pretty easily and now all his work seems to be taking in refugees, expanding Falconia, performing miracles so ppl can say goodbye to their loved ones, and having tea with the pope or w/e.

I do wonder about people who would resent Griffith for not being noble – they might provide some conflict, though I doubt there’s much they could actually do. And tbh I think Foss is actually a genuine believer now, personally, and probably a somewhat terrified one, but he’d also be an interesting thread to pick up again. I really want to see more from the perspectives of people who knew original Griffith.

I feel like for most of them this is actually kind of a natural progression – we saw people talking back in the Golden Age about how he was like a painting, how he was like a fairytale hero, we saw admiring peasants, etc. He won the war despite all odds so to have him reappear and save Midland from Ganeshka’s army fits everyone’s preconceptions of him. But there could still be some interesting stuff to be explored.

Tbh I’d love for Charlotte to gradually start to realize how non-genuine Griffith’s affections are (though I don’t think that’s changed between being human and being a god lol) or maybe sense a certain coldness or emptiness from him. I doubt it would happen soon though, and it might not happen at all – Charlotte didn’t exactly know him very well as a human, she idealized him herself quite a bit and NeoGriffith’s image of perfection probably fits her expectations.

Idk what I’d love to see is like, suggestive conversations and little reminders that NeoGriffith isn’t quite the same as Original Griffith, and that he’s very singular and therefore very alone. We got Rickert, now I want more. Like let’s see Owen asking after Guts the way he asked Guts about Griffith. Or let’s see what Griffith does in his spare time, or what the nobles say about him and the rumours that he was a traitor a few years ago. I like outsider perspectives a lot and I think there’s a lot of good potential there.

the fact that he’s remembering the very first moment we saw them together when we know guts thought of him as “beautiful, noble, and larger than life,” where griffith said, “i’ve never spoken to anyone like this,” is killer tbh. thinking about that early moment of vulnerability, wondering if guts has been hating/resenting him all this time.

kissing-monsters:

please, I’m dying, just finish yer fucking sentence guts

also after what happens with casca, which is so much like two mourning friends comforting each other (and despite being unable to see romantic love there at all, made me like them more? actually, not despite, probably because I can’t see it as romantic love. they both belong to griffith in their own ways) this hit me really hard– even though I’d read these panels out of context before, this whole section of the narrative is amazing. guts is ALMOST having a realisation here about griffith, or is having one. is he realising how human griffith is and some of how he’d relied on guts? and that leads to: IF THAT’S THE CASE… THEN I… !!

if you don’t think guts absolutely loves griffith, idk what to say

i definitely think this is guts beginning to realize that he shouldn’t’ve left and he was wrong about griffith looking down on him

which just reinforces that guts didn’t leave because he particularly wanted to find a dream, he left bc he wanted griffith to love him and he thought that was the only way. but whoops, turns out he already did and the proof is the fact that they’re on a rescue mission right now.

yk, i always think of guts as being the only member of the hawks who was recruited without a choice in the matter. the only one who didn’t choose to follow griffith but instead got won in a duel. i was even about to write some meta on it and what it says about griffith and how he forgets his dream when guts is involved (because it’s important to him that every one of the hawks chooses to follow him of their own volition, it’s how he maintains his denial of guilt). but i sat down to start writing it and i was like, wait a sec.

bc the thing is, the duel was all guts.

griffith said he wanted guts to join him, seemed taken aback when guts refused out of hand, and that’s it.

guts is the one who went hey i know let’s fight again and if i lose i’ll fight for you or we’ll fuck or whatever

like, i think griffith just leapt at the chance to keep guts around another way, i don’t think he would’ve made that suggestion himself, or kidnapped him if guts didn’t suggest it or w/e. guts probably could’ve just went ‘uh thanks for not letting me die i guess, see ya’ and griffith probably would’ve sighed and let him leave if more sweet talking didn’t work.

instead guts went ‘we’re enemies, i want to fight you again, here are the stakes,’ and griffith was like, ‘fuck yeah i’m in’

idek i’ve read this scene a million times idg why i always think of griffith as the instigator when he’s textually not. maybe bc once guts brings up the idea griffith is so hugely into it lol with his ‘i must obtain the things i desire’ and reiterating that guts belongs to him etc.

but guts did have a choice. he chose to fight griffith and he chose the stakes of the duel.

Was skullknight a Godhand member because if you look at his sword it looks like the Behelit shaped as a sword. There’s speculations that Griffith will reign for 200 years then become like Zodd later on, I don’t know how to feel about that. In the end Griffith is being used by the idea of Evil I heard someone said he’s a good guy but they forget what he did to the band of the hawk and Casca. I’m an atheist, but Griffith is evil saying he’s Lucifer and that he’s good in the end rolls 👀.

lol I actually theorize that he was a former Godhand, though without any real evidence other than the timeline we’re given. (I think he somehow made his reality warping sword by eating behelits lol.) My theory is that he was the last incarnated Godhand member pre-Griffith, since one supposedly incarnates once every thousand years and Gaiseric’s Falconia 1.0 empire was a thing 1000 years ago. Plus Guts comparing him to Griffith was a solid “hmmm” moment, and the fact that he’s also compared to Guts now (witch friend, possible revenge quest, armour) is more interesting to me if he was the world’s previous “Griffith.”

Never heard those speculations, why 200 years? And like Zodd how? Monstrous, or roaming battle fields, or bloodlusty, or what? Seems like an odd theory since Zodd is just an apostle and Griffith is a god. (Unless you mean become like Skull Knight, in which case I could get behind that theory.)

And I’m not gonna lie, I’m 100% a Griffith fan and I’ll absolutely argue that he wasn’t at all evil pre-rebirth into Femto. Like, the Godhand ultimately convinced him to make the sacrifice not through offers of power or rejuvenation but by guilt-tripping him about all the people who died for his dream. Human Griff ain’t evil, he’s just got stupid (tho imo v understandable) priorities.

After he became Femto, I’d say he’s like, literally evil, in that he’s literally described as being made up of the same evil/dark/negative aspects of humanity that the Idea of Evil is. And NeoGriffith is a mysterious wildcard as far as I can tell, I have no idea if he’s yet another aspect of humanity brought to the forefront, the way Griffith was all human and Femto was humanity’s darkness, or if he’s just Femto with a flesh suit on, or what, so I’m just waiting on more reveals before making up my mind on him.

But I don’t think he’s Satan, or an anti-christ. I think he’s a Christ figure in a world whose God is a manifestation of humanity’s dark side. Yk, if that’s a difference worth distinguishing lol.