oh yeah it totally is, nice. i’ll have to listen to more marina and the diamonds
lol i was just glancing at the lyrics before and now i’ve gotten a chance to listen to it. damn those griffith feels are even stronger with the music. the lower i get the higher i’ll climb, i got dark only to shine, ouch.
Guts echoes NeoGriffith’s “nothing has changed. This is the man I am.”
Has Guts come this far, letting go of his “obsession” with Griffith, by letting himself buy Griffith’s own hype?
Like I’m not sure about this but I don’t remember any moments where Guts reminisces about human Griffith after this:
Is there an underpinning of Guts letting himself forget and downplay how much Griffith loved him, in order to let go of his fruitless obsession?
Guts’ obsession with killing Griffith has ultimately been about wanting his attention, which Femto/NGriff has consistently refused to give him, at least overtly. (lbr the fact that he goes to see guts to test his capacity to feel, and the constant eye contact and needling taunting as femto belies the shit out of that)
Like to lay this out real quick, “you of all people,” is Griffith asserting that he was always a monster, and Guts knew it. Part of the reason Griffith was devastated when Guts left is because he saw it as a rejection of him, based on everything he hates about himself. He let Guts in to see those things he hates, and he thinks Guts left him because of it.
Of course we know that Guts left entirely because he loved and respected Griffith. He “shone before [him] as beautiful, noble, and larger than life.”
The last 30ish chapters before the Eclipse revolve around Guts slowly realizing that he already had Griffith’s love and respect, and therefore leaving was a mistake. Even he knew that Griffith ended up in that dungeon because of him.
Guts knew Griffith loved him.
But does he still know it, after being “deserted” by him? After NeoGriffith’s assertion that “it seems I am free,” “nothing has changed,” “this is the man I am,” “you of all people,”?
And if he’s let himself forget, what happens if Griffith finally does start paying attention to him again?
ngl my taste is pretty basic and there are like a million classic things i haven’t seen or read but here’s some of what I’ve enjoyed:
manga:
claymore – recently read it and thoroughly loved it. even the terrible het was so downplayed i wouldn’t’ve known it was there if it wasn’t for one (1) terrible line. probably my second favourite manga after berserk.
gunjo – dark, fucked up f/f, which i always need more of
devilman – everyone’s reading it now thanks to the anime but i beat the rush. anyway i’d rec the original manga and v little else in the universe lol, unless you have a v high tolerance for a range of bad writing from offensive to ridic.
pet shop of horrors – i mean i p much read it just so i could read fic lol, but it was pretty delightful despite the kind of shitty tokyopop translation. luv a ship that smoothly transitions from investigating someone for murder to co-parenting a child together.
anime:
utena – I can see why it’s a classic and I got really into it. also juri/shiori is one of v v v few f/f ships i’ve seen that perfectly hits my specific power dynamic buttons lol
samurai flamenco – came for the gay, stayed for how endearing it was. it kind of toes the line between text and subtext and the whole genre bending thing was v weird but v fun when you get into it imo
yuri on ice – obviously lol, everyone’s watched it
devilman crybaby – also obviously, tho i wouldn’t really rec it unless you have a v high tolerance for gratuitous everything and even then I’d only consider like the last 4 episodes genuinely great.
honestly everything else i’ve seen are also things everyone has seen like death note and cowboy bebop
and stuff I haven’t finished and therefore can’t rec but am enjoying so far:
that and the fact that he sold his body so less of his men (or children ..) would have to die, and then comforted casca when she was trying to comfort him
those are the two things that stand out in my mind and cement his personality as very giving, though it may not seem like it to some because he tries to cover it up with varying levels of success
“a dream is something a man must achieve for no one else’s sake but his own” or w/e
five chapters later: “if there’s something i can do for their sake, for the sake of the dead, that thing is to win.”
he so does try to cover it up lol, i was just writing about this earlier too (because I actually didn’t even think to address Griffith’s dream speech in my meta about Griffith’s dream… and had to go back and add it in. yeah)
but yeah I mean like NGriff becoming “the desired,” the achiever of humanity’s dream is such a good encapsulation of his human life. (also the fact that he became a monster first is a gr8 encapsulation of griffith’s distorted by self-loathing perception of his life.)
i finally feel motivated to sit down and spend a night writing a bunch of meta and stuff, and instead i have to go to bartend at my boss’ birthday party
i mean granted that’s probably why i feel motivated, i always want to do things as soon as i can’t, but still 😡
I can always console myself that if Guts’ narrative is going to continue being about letting go of his Griffith obsession right up until the very end, Griffith’s narrative is going to be about his Guts obsession coming back to haunt him.
It’s only half of the story I want, but I’m still down for that half.
(ftr these 2 statements are separated only by one full page panel of Guts walking away with Casca)
in 30 years when berserk is finally over ppl are gonna go ‘omg can you believe that the creepy demon thing that we saw all the way back in chapter one turned out to be the key to everything all along and guts and casca’s child, wow miura is a genius, he really thought everything through blah blah blah blah’
and i’m still gonna be like, the creepy demon feus was 500x better when it was just an abstract symbol of guts’ potential to lose himself to revenge, miura played himself.
lol i didn’t even predict the fetus showing up in casca’s mind, idk.
i think it’s still possible that casca’s going to wake up and lose it? what with the whole thing about shoving her metaphorical heart in her metaphorical chest while it’s covered in metaphorical thorns. actually i’m pretty stoked about that because farnese had her line about wanting to help casca overcome her darkness the same way casca helped her, so either we’re going to get some good farnese and casca interaction or that’s going to turn out to be a pipe dream and casca’s going to do something dark, and either way i’m super intrigued.
whatever guts does would depend on what casca does, i figure. i’m thinking they’re not getting back together immediately, if at all. worst case scenario that i could easily see happening is that miura teases a reconciliation for most of the rest of the manga and i have to live with that sword of damocles hanging over my head indefinitely.
so like, if casca is chill and recovers with farnese’s help, the plot has to get going somehow. maybe we end guts’ narrative on a high note, farnese helping casca recover and guts having achieved a goal without ruining everything for once, return to griffith’s in a flash forward, and he’s about to attack elfhelm logically because it’s the last remaining threat to him but actually because he’s bored and misses guts. honestly i would mostly hate this scenario for many reasons, like guts’ narrative being passive and boring and ngriff having a more unambiguously villainous role, like it would just feel shallow thematically imo, but i could maybe see it happening. I’ve been mostly bored by Guts’ narrative for like 200 chapters now so it wouldn’t be out of place lol.
or something else entirely could kick start the plot. maybe the flower king encourages guts to go fight griffith and we start getting into skellig moral ambiguity. maybe magic deus ex machina happens. maybe casca learns of a way she can use magic to siphon her stupid kid out of griffith and that’s the new objective lol. I was gonna suggest that maybe guts takes off on his own for revenge spurred on by some unforseen event, but the fact that he’s on an island makes that unlikely I guess.
god tho i still think that the neatest and most efficient way to kick start things into gear, fulfill a lot of foreshadowy promises, re-motivate guts into doing something, and shake things up in an interesting way is for casca to use the behelit. this is the hill i’m going to die on, at least until it becomes impossible. and yk what, casca’s last remaining and most important piece of herself, her heart, being the kid could be solid set up for sacrificing it. “Someone so close to you it’s almost like they’re a part of you,” and “bury your human heart,” after all.
I mean the way we revisited the Eclipse and Casca’s trauma, ie, we didn’t, kinda makes me less inclined to think Miura’s going to do anything with it/make it a real motivation, but, yk. thorns and whatnot. ~i want to believe~
i just want something dark and permanent with real consequences to happen, guts’ story has been progressively lighter and happier for over 200 chapters by now, come on.
I wish I could understand an iota of what Miura is going for with the fetus tbh.
Idk, idk if it’s so much that the fetus being the last piece means the whole demonization thing was what drove her insane, the vibe I got was more like, it’s the most important part of her and everything around it “guarding” it (the monsters, the femto-pterodactyl) was what drove her insane. Which at least fits with the fact that she’s immensely traumatized.
This is a bit of an optimistic take tho, because I could absolutely believe Miura writing that it was the corruption of the fetus that mostly drove her insane and she just innately sensed it or something.
this is in no way an objective or meaningful fact but i’m gonna throw an idea out there:
Miura drew Griffith at his most attractive/sultriest in the period when Guts and Casca were fighting over him, ie between when they first meet and the Promrose Hall speech
and yk what Miura drew Guts at his most attractive in the period where Griffith and Casca were low-key competing for him
i hate berserk 😦
what if farnesca like, actually happened
i hate saying i’ve been spoiled because of a few things i’ve seen in the last few years with surprise double gay, but man like five years ago my highest hopes would be ‘man I sure hope when the endgame het inevitably happens it doesn’t take up too much page time’ and now i’m like ‘but what if farnesca actually happened and then guts and griffith talk about their feelings before dying together’
like even crybaby-esque subtext w/ no het endgame would be… incredible
ugh i hate the current media landscape for both setting the bar this high and for the fact that ‘gay subtext/mmmmmaybe confirmation for two ships but with the sexual aspect downplayed + v little het’ is a high bar at all lol
farnese pulled casca out of that coffin now she can put the concept of gutsca in it and nail it closed
vague spoilers for the newest chapter, rambly not-really-theorizing
I am just gonna pray that ‘for now’ is still in place and nothing’s been forgiven or forgotten and assuming things don’t proceed immediately to hell it’s gonna be Farnese supporting Casca emotionally rn while Guts stays tf out of it, and Farnese’s little statement about blowing Casca’s darkness away or whatever gives me hope for that.
ALSO
I’m torn about this. Because on the one hand, I’d be inclined to guess that this is foreshadowing for a moment in which Guts will be under the threat of being consumed by the Beast of Darkness but will manage to overcome it because he’s grown as a person and his friends come through and save themselves or whatever. Potential for terrible things to happen, but with a different outcome this time.
But on the other hand Guts has never been properly taken over by the stupid Beast of Darkness and I feel like that’s something that has to happen at some point, and we’ve already had Eclipse-but-with-a-different-outcome-thanks-to-Guts’-companions back in the Conviction arc with Isidro saving Casca for him so either way it’s going to feel repetitive, so idfk.
I guess my biggest hope is that Casca’s trauma specifically re Guts and the Beast of Darkness isn’t forgotten, and the BoD remains a giant barrier between them preventing a happy romantic reunion, and I’m gonna cling to every scrap of ominous foreshadowing bc I need that hope.
(And ftr no I’m not hoping Casca is assaulted again or anything like that just in case anyone wants to read this in extremely bad faith, I’m hoping Casca resoundingly rejects him, or Guts like, doesn’t trust himself and leaves (in a way that doesn’t lead to this turning out to be a mistake w/ a tearful reunion near the end), or something else not completely terrible.)
Like I’m trying to think of what Miura would do with Casca, and the past g*tsca relationship knowing that the relationship wasn’t intended from the beginning and was never portrayed as a grand romance but rather just a hook up with potential and a reason for Guts to be angry, and Miura said he added it for the sake of Eclipse drama. Also knowing that Casca only survived the Eclipse so Guts would stay pissed off, and the whole Beast of Darkness issue. And then there’s that fetus too. So I honestly just don’t know, but I’m hoping it doesn’t add up to either a happily ever after for them, or the two of them resuming their relationship only for more tragedy to fuck them up, or a potential future relationship as a happily ever after reward hovering over my head for the rest of the fucking manga.
All I truly want is a nail in the guts/casca coffin asap, and then mb I can finally know peace.
Yeah, I think it’s a rly interesting aspect. I don’t think I have enough knowledge of Christian theology to say anything smart on the topic beyond being like, hmm yes Griffith is the messiah in a very cynical take on religion. I coud see it being a very grim take on self sacrifice in that sense, ie sacrificing his humanity by sacrificing people he loves so much they’re like part of himself.
sorry this took so long, i was barely online yesterday
But absolutely, totally agree. this moment is so good because there’s no possible rational explanation for Griffith’s actions, and he doesn’t even try to give Guts one afterwards, for once.
@bthump right??? I have friends and a cousin who denies that there were any romantic feelings between them but I’ve noticed that most of the fans who deny it never provide evidence for their claims. I’m still waiting for my cousin to give me a reason(he’s the only one I actually expect would come up with some evidence but I have evidence of my own)
And another thing that gets me is that people know that Berserk was inspired by Devilman which was a shounen ai.
Yeah Devilman’s clear influence on Berserk and Guts and Griffith’s relationship trajectory is a pretty huge indicator lol.
hetero goggles tho man, they’re powerful. like Berserk is a story where one dude asks the other dude if he’s gay five minutes after they meet and that dude completely fails to answer, and people still manage to miss the subtext somehow.
@just-a-daft-punk not sure if I’m interpreting your comment correctly, do you mean guts and casca would’ve run off together earlier if it weren’t for casca’s feelings for griffith? because tbh i don’t see it myself, it took judeau practically shoving guts at her multiple times and then an attempted suicide and emotional breakdown for guts to make a move. and right before leaving he dismissed the idea of getting together with her out of hand because he wanted to prioritize finding a dream and becoming griffith’s friend.
like guts just didn’t really show any interest in her beyond leering at her in her dress once before his two chats with judeau imo.
@bthump how I feel whenever I meet a berserk fan who adamantly denies the obvious chemistry between Griffith and Guts.
lol it genuinely throws me off ngl. it’s weird how two people can read the same story and come away with vastly, vastly different conceptions of what it’s about. I get that there’s always variation between any two readings of a story, but Berserk has one of the widest gulfs between different types of fans I’ve ever seen.
I just want to draw your attention to Griffith’s clenched fists that we don’t see in the scene itself, only Griffith’s memory of it. It’s a nice little depressing detail.
i ventured out of my cozy berserk circle and saw a mildly analytical post that presumed that guts and casca were in love and casca was guts’ number one priority after they had sex – specifically that he would stay for casca but not griffith – and it was like stepping into the evil mirror universe
Yep I totally said that and I’m still working on it (I finished part 3 of 4 last night). It’s slow going because I procrastinate for days/weeks between occasional evenings spent chipping away at it lol, and don’t get too excited because a lot of it is comprised of stuff I’ve talked about before just kind of tied together under an overarching theme of exploring the dream vs Griffith’s feelings for Guts (though there’s new stuff too so hopefully it won’t be a total boring slog for any of my followers who may actually want to read over 10k words about Griffith.)
Also speaking of Casca and Griffith this is a great little underappreciated moment:
Casca moving defensively in front of Griffith and drawing her sword to protect him from Zodd, only for Griffith to tell her to run with everyone while he decides to personally be the one to leap directly into near certain death to try to save Guts.
This. This. This
Parallels. It’s always the parallels.
The look on her face when she realizes its because of Guts… She seems quite… sad?
Idk if you wanted an explanation or if you were just making an observation, but I’ll seize any opportunity to post this part lol.
Also speaking of Casca and Griffith this is a great little underappreciated moment:
Casca moving defensively in front of Griffith and drawing her sword to protect him from Zodd, only for Griffith to tell her to run with everyone while he decides to personally be the one to leap directly into near certain death to try to save Guts.
Absolutely, like he just sent a volly of arrows at Zodd that did absolutely nothing. And Griffith is very aware of how dangerous the situation is because he tells Casca to retreat with everyone else. Like, diving into that situation, trying to rescue an injured dude who has an enormous terrifying monster dead set on fighting him, I’m pretty sure he had to know his odds of survival were not high lol.
To whatever extent he was even considering his own survival when all his focus was on not letting Guts die.
because i want to complain but also i want to be vague
i hate chapter 39 because it practically states the point of this meta directly on the page but that means i can’t just skip it i have to like, fuckin write about it
@bthump Right? Like that’s a literally batshit crazy thing to say to someone and Guts is just like “wow he really cares.” I was 100% sold on the two of them as a deal and on the series after that.
oops i almost missed this but lmao yeah. and like that was guts’ reaction to griffith fighting him when he tried to leave too. griffith’s not the only one with a ridic concept of friendship.
you're the only one 