lol yeah I def see the comparisons too. Like both getting super offended on Griffithâs behalf after someone slaps him is pretty specific lol. And in general his devoted attitude, like Iâve seen Locus compared to Casca (Iâve probably made the comparison b4 actually) as long as weâre comparing the old band to the new, but I can also see comparing him to Guts.
Actually speaking of, rather than comparing the new apostle band to the old band I could see comparing all of them to different aspects of Guts. Like Zodd is the blood lusty raider captain, Locus is the devoted soldier, Irvine is the loner who got drawn into a group, Raksas is… the kind of shitty assassin who causes a big scene lmao? Okay maybe it doesnât work perfectly, but there are a lot of purposeful parallels between Guts and various apostles, itâs a pretty consistent thing, and itâs fun to think about.
ANYway all that aside you know there would definitely be weird mutual jealousy between Guts and Locus, Iâm 100% on board for this potential love triangle.
well apparently my activity page has decided to randomly not show me some notes, so if anyone replies to me and i donât respond thatâs probably why
Imagine how ten times more amazing Berserk would be if it just admits that its a tragic love story between two men.
eternal mood
berserk is the story of two dudes who keep trying and failing to not be obsessed with each other, taking more and more drastic and destructive measures each time, and still fucking failing to get over their mutual obsession
griffith: focuses on his dream, still risks everything to save gutsâ life multiple times
guts: separates himself from the hawks, tries not to focus on the fact that itâs all to be griffithâs friend
griffith: has sex as a distraction from guts leaving him; cries and ends up in a dungeon where he thinks about nothing but guts for a year
guts: has sex as a distraction from breaking griffithâs heart; eventually has to face the fact that he screwed up and decides to abandon his dream and stay with griffith. leads to obsessively pursuing him in a rage for 2-3 years.
griffith: becomes a demon to try to get over guts; next time he sees him with a corporeal form he starts getting heart palpitations
guts: focuses on restoring cascaâs sanity and making new friends, doing his damndest to ignore griffithâs existence
i have like, actual things to say but first i want to get my obligatory picspam out of the way lol
like thereâs a reason his very first sight of griffith is a slow sexy letting his hair down moment
that comes first in his memory even when his association with griffith should be âthe jerk who stabbed meâ not âthe pretty guy with gorgeous hair that iâm imagining extra fanned out and sensuousâ
and then thereâs this
and donât even get me started on how mesmerised he is by neogriffithâs hair
like sure it works as a visual contrast to femto to emphasize his lack of demonic appearance, but man
i mean thereâs a panel of just his hair as like an abstract design as a lead in to the full pages of naked griffith, framed by gutsâ awestruck expression
and gutsâ memories of the big moment of course which exaggerate his hair even more
oh and like all of gutsâ memories of human griffith that arenât his back after the swordfight include his hair flowing in the wind
ANYWAY in addition to bombarding you with visuals bc I enjoy spamming panels from berserk, my take is that Guts totally eroticizes Griffithâs hair, whether consciously or unconsciously, and wouldnât actually touch it, say, to casually brush something away, until their relationship turns sexual, because it feels off-limits to him bc of that erotic association.
but then he wouldnât be able to get enough of gently brushing it behind his ear before going in for a kiss, or looking at it all splayed out and messy while heâs asleep, or mb eventually grabbing handfuls and using it to physically guide him during sex a bit, or even brushing it for him sometimes, though heâd probably be a little intimidated at first cause lbr he wouldnât know the first thing to do with hair longer than an inch and a half. (also ik you donât brush curly hair but griffithâs seems less curly and more wavy to me and therefore brushable? either way tho, guts helping w/ hair care is good. washing it for him too.)
also griffith and guts cuddling w/ guts just like gently scratching/massaging his head and playing with his hair.
I was also considering the idea of guts coming in his hair like, by accident, and getting awkwardly turned on even as he apologizes lol, but actually idk⌠it def wouldnât work as a humiliation thing, and i feel like come marking as a d/s thing automatically has associations of humiliation, but then thereâs also just the way bodily fluids are intimate. i could see guts being into it as like a physical sign of how close they are and more physically associating griffithâs hair with sex lol.
i like the idea of it as an accident during a blowjob that griffith laughs off and guts is awkward and a little turned on about, but mb not as a deliberate sexual activity, i think.
all of mitskis music in incredible relatable sadcore lmao
this is good to know for next time iâm in a mood tbh
ok so in my defense i hadnât read this full scene in ages, i only referred back to the saved pages i had which didnât include the context, which is why i didnât realize until now exactly why the beast of darkness phrased it as âtrue lightâ here
but now i have read the full scene again and i have the context and iâm fucking dying lol
griffith is the true light in comparison to the warm lights that are his current companions, like, fuck me thatâs good.
thatâs so so good
like yeah i already knew light often refers to companionship and love in berserk but to have that explicitly laid out right before griffith is called gutsâ âtrue lightâ is so fucking satisfying i canât handle it.
like there you go, griffith is still the bar by which all other relationships are not just measured but found wanting. as much as guts talks about âletting goâ of his obsession the longing is always there.
and like âthe true light that burns us,â is literally saying that guts still loves griffith, still âlongs forâ griffith, and that hurts now, and thatâs his motivation for wanting to lash out and kill him. itâs a bit of a repeat of what the bod told him after the hill of swords, but more direct.
lmao i may be a little overenthusiastic about this but reading the full scene literally just made me go from fear that guts is genuinely just going to move on and that will be his happy ending, to feeling like thereâs no way weâre not getting a cathartic emotional climax that involves guts finally forced to confront his conflicting feelings.
LIKE!! if it was just âtrue lightâ Iâd be willing to entertain the idea that itâs just revenge, framed as a dream, in opposition to his companions, the way Griffithâs castle was also a source of light to him. but âtrue light that burns usâ? Thatâs Gutsâ lingering, now intensely painful feelings. Thatâs love. Thatâs something heâs gonna have to deal with at some point.
asia i was JUST linking a friend of mine ur meta on this and i just wanted to say that ur so fucking good at this
omg ty this is so nice! and ty for sharing it â¤
just for a brief moment iâm gonna be as self-indulgent as possible, fuck plausibility
chapter 328 ends with gutsâ ominous contemplations in the following order:
brooding over the possibility of losing his humanity to the armour, reflecting on skull knightâs warning
what will she do if she does get her sanity back???, reflecting on skull knightâs warning
when this journeyâs over iâll *thinks about griffith on the hill*
so how about casca goes monster and consequently guts goes full berserker, goes to find griffith – is possibly like, aimed at griffith by danann and skull knight as a weapon – and then instead of the power of friendship bringing his consciousness back itâs
learning griffith failed his own test on the hill of swords
âThe instant I saw him… I forgot my urge to killâ x1000
maybe schierke finds out and yells it into his subconscious, so you get some of the power of friendship angle too
This is like, the fucking plan. Skull Knight and Danann are conspiring to have the behelit open in Elfhelm, by Danannâs spirit tree, summoning the Godhand, so Skull Knight can do his thing, quite probably aided by Elfhelm tree magic, and entomb them in the vortex. Probably alongside Guts and Casca and everyone else watching the show.
Also something genuinely bad and dark has to happen because of this, like say, Casca becoming an apostle, because Guts needs to feel the full weight of betrayal by SK and succumb to the armour. And this will be a heavy painful betrayal because itâs gonna remind Guts of Griffith, because of the way Skull Knight has rescued him in the past and earned his trust. (tbh more on this whenever I get off my ass and write a long meta post about Guts and what his relationship to Griffith means to him.)
But also the power of friendship is going to prevent Guts from going full Beast of Darkness forever the way itâs been suggested that Skull Knight lost his humanity to the armour. Just, god willing, hopefully not before g*tsca is laid to rest.
So. Still think Guts and Casca are pawns, still think the tree and Dragonâs Road thing are relevant, definitely think the behelitâs relevant, and Iâm actually pretty confident that the Godhand are coming to Elfhelm and Danann and Skull Knight have this trap waiting for them.
Whether Danann and Skull Knightâs plan is successful is another story entirely. Whether defeating and trapping the Godhand away in the vortex is even a good idea is also another story entirely. And idk whether NeoGriff figures into this at all lol.
Oh also I know the behelit only opens when the laws of causality like, make it happen, but, a) Skull Knight referred to that in that ominous scene where Flora suggests he might be using Guts and itâs not stopping him from maneuvering things into place itâs just giving him a handy excuse b) fate works thru peopleâs encounters and choices and Danann and Skull Knight and Guts etc are people c) theyâre high level magic users a step outside causality maybe they can tell when the behelitâs likely to open and are facilitating that for their own ends or smthn.
Also I know Miura has said he writes on the fly and doesnât have a plan, but he must have some idea of where things are headed because he has actively been throwing foreshadowing down for 150 chapters. Maybe the details are vague in his mind but Iâm quite sure he knows the broadstrokes of the story. Like after all he wrote the entire golden age knowing exactly where it would end up, give or take a few details. Iâm willing to bet heâs been planning some Skull Knight shit since Floraâs appearance.
Anyway this is my theory now. I may go about it backwards, ie having a destination I absolutely want and then finding evidence for it, but yk what i want to live in hope until the next chapter so screw it.
Ok so to summarize, my theory is that Cascaâs despair is going to open the behelit, this was deliberately arranged by Danann and Skull Knight so they can trap the Godhand in the vortex, and the fall-out of this is going to be Guts going full Berserker for some period of time, most likely (though I am a little less confident about this aspect than the rest of it) because Casca opts for monsterism.
So anyway I was re-reading chapter 328, another one of those chapters that basically exists to be crammed full of foreshadowing, and this jumped out at me
Hey Schierke, quick question for you:
what the hell does deciphering âfates that transcend timeâ have to do with the elf king showing up as a child to stalk your rpg group?
Nothing. Thatâs just completely unrelated infodumping that happens to fully support my theory that Danann and Skull Knight are conspiring to have Casca open the behelit.
Up there I wrote
âtheyâre high level magic users a step outside causality maybe they can
tell when the behelitâs likely to open and are facilitating that for
their own ends or smthnâ and basically Iâm just giving myself a pat on the back because thatâs absolutely correct, as Schierke tells us here.
Incidentally Iâm also now contemplating the possibility that Schierke is right and moon kid is Danann in disguise, but I have nothing conclusive to say about that, other than it would be another extra hilarious example of Danann playing up g*tsca for the sake of betraying them and tearing them apart for her own ends.
guts and casca uncomfortably relating to each other and their respective feelings towards griffith is the apex of their relationship
bad way for guts to figure out he really wants griffith to suck him off
i dont think its out
of the park to say griffith would assume his feminine looks make it
easier for guts to pretend hes a woman or something equally as crude,
like its self depreciating in the internalized homophobia way enough to
meet his standards. or just like any other slew of possibilities that
use his beauty as an excuse for gayness
hhhgh tine to be sad
about griffith online lads. i want a situation where guts freaks out and
says refuses and theres a whole hysterical conversation ending in guts
saying hell stay. cue introspective few day gap and griffith visits guts
in his quarters/tent or whatever at night and they have jilted awkward
conversation until griffith says â⌠would you /want/ me to suck you
off?â and guts doesnt stop him when he slowly kneels down between his
open legs etc etc
i want an excuse to write/talk about
porn with some angst and mixed feelings ig lmao. throw some alcohol in
there idgaf
oh man iâd read tf out of this
thereâs like something weirdly compelling about a scenario where they upgrade their relationship to sexual but like, in a terrible way with both of them hating themselves, but then eventually gets better
idk like their lives revolve around each other, i could also see an ill advised sexual encounter not so much driving them apart bc nothing really can drive them apart – even when guts left it was all for the sake of his relationship w/ griffith, and even after the eclipse theyâre both still obsessed with each other – as just being kind of toxic and miserable until they manage to work their issues out.
idk if what youâre describing would be that angsty, but either way the situation u describe, where guts decides to stay after griffith probably like reveals how vulnerable he is and how emotionally dependant on guts he is – more clearly than just falling into the snow in a daze, in a way guts canât deny – and then theyâre still drawn back to each other a few days later despite guts refusing the first sexual encounter, idk it yk just feels like a good illustration of the pull between them.
My dream would be a scenario where if Guts does have a flashback that could be Serious Bonding Moment of Healing for them. Obviously they both know that they have to work together to make everything as okay as itâs going to be, but yeah. I hope both of them have it together enough know that what they have together is a different dynamic entirely from their previous experiences.
Guts I think is used
to thinking of himself as an outsider on some level so I think he may be
more emotionally equipped to handle the Gay Experience. Griffith
though, has a lot of aspirations to respectability so that part may be
harder for him even though I donât think his men would give a flying
fuck. (I honestly think that Judeau would just owe Corkus money.)
i feel like itâs not necessarily a given that guts would have flashbacks his first time having sex with griffith too, since in canon heâs triggered by penetration in specific positions, i mean, thereâs a good chance theyâd start with handjobs and blowjobs etc anyway. one of the handy things about gay sex is that it doesnât necessarily revolve around penetration by default assumption unlike het sex. plus since guts would maybe be more likely to anticipate like, strong negative feelings resurging during sex with a man as opposed to sex with a woman he might also have the presence of mind to start with non penetrative stuff.
so that way theyâd have a chance to yk like, get used to sex with each other and get more intimate physically and emotionally, and both able to internalize the fact that their desire is reciprocated, before hitting a scenario that leads to guts flashbacking.
also yeah good point that guts could be more okay with his attraction to men than griffith. i tend to see griffith as understanding that heâs attracted to men and completely ignoring that fact bc his aspirations include marrying a specific woman and also he has hangups, but ofc i could also see him basically unaware and in denial.
and maybe if he does come to terms w/ it he can switch strategies to matchmaking charlotte and anna while making himself charlotteâs bff and then proposing a lavender marriage. happily ever after berserk au.
the only thing i disagree with is that i think corkus would owe judeau money if they were betting on griffith lol. but then corkus would immediately get it back thanks to guts anyway.
Guts has zero social skills but I could see Griffith permitting a hug. Guts, understanding on some level where this is all coming from would be really sad and might say the right thing about not needing to do it this way? I donât know. It may backfire spectacularly because Guts may go down the âAre my desires inherently predatory????!!!!â road and that helps no one. Poor things.
yeah mb if guts already knows heâs attracted to griffith and is coming to terms w/ that then he could salvage the situation and not get too freaked out and escalate it badly. though man it would be really really easy for him to fuck that up lol.
but i mean there are worst case scenarios but there are also best case scenarios. like eg i could see guts smoothly bypassing a sexuality crisis by going from âthis is fine because griffith is so special heâs basically a category all on his ownâ to âok yeah ik griffith is a dude but by now iâm p comfortable having sex w/ that dude so w/eâ and/or âok now iâm having a flashback but weâre emotionally close and comfortable enough by now to turn it into a comforting bonding experienceâ
and i could see griffith having all these issues weâve been discussing but not making it obvious for a while, so when he does slip up and reveal that heâs got some fucked up attitudes towards sex as transactional and/or something that makes him feel dirty/self loathing, their relationship is more solid and theyâre more equipped to deal w/ it together.
the implications of this make me sad but like its good in the content way
theres the assumption
that griffith knows that guts finds him physically/sexually attractive
(which gets worse when you tie in his feminine features and the
internalized homophobia) but the jump from him wanting guts to stay
around and offering his body just ends in staticâŚ
griffith drops 2 his knees and offers to suck guts off if he promises he wont leave just yet
itâs like, the combination of most plausible and most depressing way for them to turn/try to turn their relationship sexual
and i feel like guts would have to be the one who recognizes that griffith has fucked up attitudes towards sex bc i rly donât think griffith is self aware enough to recognize that this is terrible lol, at least not without a serious wake-up call. but idk if guts has enough like… social awareness. itâs like griffith has the social awareness and guts has the self awareness and while in some circumstances that could work out really well, in this circumstance itâs the opposite of what they need.
agh this is such a disaster scenario. and like if griffith did offer then and there during a fraught moment as heâs freaked out about guts leaving, guts would absolutely be like âno what the fuckâ and griffith would then ofc take it as a rejection/condemnation.
but at least it might be enough to convince guts that griffith needs him a lot more than he believes? itâs a starting point at least.
also yeah the point about griffith knowing guts finds him attractive is so đŚ like we were talking a bit before about gutsâ internalized homophobia + griffithâs femininity vs masculinity, but yeah it would be sad and interesting to explore how griffith feels about that too.
The incubus thing has really weird
implications I donât want to think about and itâs weird as shit.
Just to be clear, sucubus and incubus are the same demons. As in they spend different times in their life cycle as both and must collect idk material from men to impregnate women. Assuming weâre talking about non-literal semen it gets weird when Guts is considered in all this. He spends time as the passive Neo-Griffith or human Griffith who struggles with being objectified and time as Femto. We will Not be literal about this, kids.
huh, iâve never heard of this particular variation of incubi/succubi folklore, wild.
guess you could apply that to ngriff vs femto if you ignore the weird gender shit or just turn it into the fantasy monster version of being a switch lol. still gonna ignore anything eclipse related tho, and idk about ngriff being passive, sexually or otherwise, tho if u mean more like seductive then ia, but idk thatâs prob beside the point when weâre talking about a semen go-between fantasy creature lmao.
lmaoo im the same i like ships that are on âthe friends to enemies to its complicated and cant be explained in a tropeâ sid so fluff is a relief. griffiths issues with sex and intimacy have me fucked beyond his rape i think crossing that line with guts would lead to a contradiction with his sex=transaction viewpoint
like i can see him
trying to seduce guts when they have a disagreement because some part of
him thinks that  trading his body/objectifying himself (?) is a viable
option to get what he wants or come to a compromise. as opposed to an
thing he does with a person he loves because he loves him and he wants
to do it. guts of course freaks out which only makes griffith more
hysterical etc
aaaaaaaaa yeah this is so real and now iâm depressed. i tried to add something but i just ended up re-stating what you said lol.
but also this has me immediately thinking of an au w/ griffith learning that guts intends to leave in a situation less immediate than the canon one but still incredibly emotionally intense for him, and leaping to offering sex. especially if he learns, unlike canon, that guts wants to leave to be his friend/equal, and therefore doesnât necessarily see it as a rejection, but as a problem that could be fixed by offering himself.
and of course griffith does want sex for its own sake, as an expression of love and intimacy and pleasure etc, but it just isnât how he thinks of it or frames it to himself. when it comes to sex w/ guts the transaction concept is more like an excuse to experience something he wants but canât really admit he wants due to a) trauma and/or b) the way it runs counter to his dream.
well appearing in peopleâs dreams in a tempting manner does kinda fit what with ngriffâs whole âdesiredâ thing and everyoneâs hawk dreams. tho incubi mythology also fits some of the least fun aspects of the story a little too well for me lol, so it wouldnât be my first choice.
That would make Guts a werewolf- beast of darkness is a dog lol And aside from the obvious messiah parallels, what fantasy creature would Griffith be?
yeah guts is definitely a werewolf. for griffith i want to say siren. the bird type, not the mermaid type. his thing is being pretty, having ridiculous amounts of charisma and enchanting everyone basically, i feel like it fits.
I can’t believe I missed the fact that Griffith has sharp canines in that last panel. Suddenly I stan him even more, if that’s at all possible lol Also I agree with everything đ
damn i never noticed that either lol
alongside the oddly pointy ears they both have little fangs
a matching set of intimidating, larger than life dark vs light figures
welcome to controversy country
Griffithâs decision to sacrifice the Hawks was perfectly reasonable not just taking into account Griffithâs own values and priorities, ie ensuring the thousands of dead posthumously achieve the thing they died for, but taking into account the Hawksâ own attitudes towards their lives, including Gutsâ.
Itâs all there in Requiem of the Wind.
âMore than half of usâve been killed…â
These are the core group of Hawks. These are the ones who believe in Griffith so strongly that theyâre willing to spend a year living as outlaws, dying in raids, so they can rescue him – so Griffith can lead them again.
There were lots of deserters over that year. People who didnât think it was worth risking their lives for a chance at achieving Griffithâs dream. Theyâre presumably out there living happily ever after.
These Hawks are the ones who are willing to risk their lives, not out of friendship or loyalty to a man, but out of loyalty to what the man symbolizes for them, what he can bring them, the success that comes to them when they follow him. Out of loyalty to the dream.
Corkus is the only one throwing a tantrum, but heâs voicing all their thoughts, as we can see when his words are placed over their depressed faces.
Wyald spells it all out.
This is who Griffith is to them. Heâs the facilitator of their dreams, dreams that each and every one of them is willing to risk their lives for.
And when he canât be that to them anymore, what happens? He becomes a burden to them.
Judeau offers to take care of him because itâs the least he can do, because he owes it to him, but mostly because if he doesnât he thinks Casca will, and he thinks it will be a life ruining burden for her. His offer is a personal sacrifice.
Casca offers to take care of him because itâs the least she can do, heâs so small now, he needs someone, and because if she doesnât Guts will, and she thinks it will be a life ruining burden for him. Her offer is a personal sacrifice.
Gutsâ offer is probably the only one based on a genuine desire to stay with Griffith.
Now, Guts doesnât see Griffith as the guy who can grant him his dreams. Guts is the exception to that. He sees Griffith as a guy he wants to be friends with.
But hereâs Gutsâ take on the situation:
Finish the battles you start.
Well, thatâs exactly what Griffith chose to do. The Eclipse is, in part, a narrative rebuke of Gutsâ stubbornness lol, it happens because he seized on the concept of finding his own dream and couldnât let it go until it was a moment too late.
When Guts finally drops his own âbattleâ in favour of staying with Griffith, ie makes the right choice contrary to his dogged nature, it comes too late because heâd successfully convinced Casca that he was dedicated to his dream at the expense of his friendships with the Hawks. âI want to draw a line, keep things separate.â He told her he didnât want to stay with the Hawks, and she believed him, and that attitude is what ruins everything.
And ironically thatâs the exact path Griffith chose when he agreed to the sacrifice. Drop his friends and relationships in favour of renewing his committment to a dream, and finishing his own battle.
For the rest of the Hawks, the Eclipse is a rebuke of their choice to live and risk their lives for tomorrowâs success rather than todayâs existence.
Now, this absolutely isnât me arguing that the Hawks deserved to die or anything lol, this is just me saying that Requiem of the Wind is largely set-up for the sacrifice, and I think itâs a clever way of like… depicting the sacrifice not just as a random tragedy that befell a group of people, but as a darkly fitting end to the way they live their lives.
It shows that the sacrifice is consistent with everything the Hawks profess to believe in.
They are all willing to lay down their lives for a victory they may never see.
The Eclipse is the fucked up yet logical conclusion to the Hawksâ very existence as a mercenary band that fights for an ideal, a dream, rather than just day to day living. They agree to potentially sacrifice their lives in every battle. The Eclipse is just one more battle, by this logic, and itâs one they win by losing their lives in it. By dying, they achieve their ultimate victory.
And I think by taking this whole philosophy of dedicating oneâs life to a dream to its logical and horrific conclusion, Berserk is basically critiquing the concept of living for an ideal. In making the sacrifice, Griffith gave the Hawks what they wanted at a cost theyâve already agreed to by choosing to risk their lives for Griffithâs victories and the success he can bring them.
Of course, in the moment, knowing that death was inevitable, they would have preferred to live. None of them would knowingly trade their life for a future they wonât live to see. But thatâs essentially what theyâre doing by fighting battles for future hopes and dreams.
At the end of the day, the moral of Berserkâs story is really simple and basic: live for the sake of being alive. Guts had it right during his three years with the Hawks, before overhearing the Promrose Hall speech: no grand dream, no living for a potential future, nothing but doing the job of a mercenary with a group of people he considered family, enjoying life day to day, fighting just to live a life he considered worthwhile.
Personally I have mixed feelings about this message, but Iâm pretty sure thatâs basically the point of Berserk.
Black Swordsman: living for revenge (and, for extra irony, Gutsâ own dream of fighting stronger and stronger enemies) is bad, living day to day with those âirreplacable thingsâ – friends – is good. Golden Age:Â âI was too stupid and stubborn to notice it, but what I really wished for back then was here.â Guts left for a dream and by leaving threw away what he truly wanted – companionship. Conviction arc: the people who survived the shadow Eclipse were the people who acted to save their own lives, rather than out of a conviction, their faith in a higher power. Millennium Falcon: âDreams can make for courageous challenges or opportune escapesâ – emphasis on escapes. Troll village dude wanted to escape the darkness of life through a dream as a child, but eventually found greater fulfillment just living an ordinary life in his village. etc etc. Stop dreaming, focus on living.
And essentially the despair we see from the Hawks upon their realization that the fight is over and Griffith is no longer able to lead them to a greater dream leads directly to the Eclipse and gives it a layer of dark irony.
oh hard agree to all of this i dont have much to add atm… do you think their first real sexual encounter would significantly change things or subtly affect any of this? i think i remember you saying that them fucking would either bring them closer or push them apart aaannndddd i think about that a lot
i think they would both get incredibly clingy after they first have sex tbh, i could just see them the morning after having to go about their day doing mercenary or noble stuff or w/e just like, trailing after each other, practically staying within reach at all times even if they canât like, actually hold hands. sneaking off to make out for a while every hour or two.
lol itâs funny, iâm all about dark angsty fucked up ships but when it comes to griffguts thereâs something so appealing about a fluffy au where everything just works out and they get to be happy together.
but also yeah i think you could go a more dramatic angsty route where after frantic passionate sex griffith is flooded by the realization that guts is the number one most important thing in his life and itâs going to ruin everything, and he ends up like, thousand yard staring it fifteen minutes after sex, and pushes him away or says âdonât touch meâ when guts like, grabs his shoulder and asks âwhatâs wrongâ
which would then really freak guts out and i could see that spiraling into a temporary disaster
also like wrt trauma idk why it never occurred to me before considering i think trauma 100% figures into both guts and griffithâs inability to deal w/ their feelings, but yeah now that u mention it i could totally see griffith feeling dirty and getting all self-loathing after enjoying sex with another man.
like the likeliest angsty scenarios are def guts having a flashback and freaking out, and/or griffith hating himself, and/or one or both feeling like theyâre taking on the role of their own aggressor and victimizing the other because shit went badly – like w/ griffithâs only experience w/ same-sex desire being gennon, and sort-of canonically feeling like his own desire for guts is inherently predatory, and guts canonically comparing himself to donovan after killing adonis and during his sex flashback, i mean
that is a fraught emotional situation to introduce sex into
um guts u sure youâre not projecting a little
like cascaâs not the only one who got all self destructive while thinking about griffith my dude
anyway i donât think weâre meant to take gutsâ statement up there without a hefty grain of salt considering guts immediately proceeds to have a flashback and talking about his dead father figure makes him feel better, and also considering that in a few days guts embraces the exact opposite point of view when he decides to stay and take care of griffith despite judeau basically repeating this sentiment to him
and also itâs callous as shit and pretty much tells us that guts is in full denial mode here while fucking casca
in fact itâs kind of similar to
oh holy shit and look at this, which i hadnât even noticed til rn:
like we all accept and understand that Griffith is projecting when he tells Charlotte to ignore the sad shit, but SO IS GUTS!
and ACTUALLY yeah iâll do this whole thing right now: Griffith fucking Charlotte and Guts fucking Casca are both attempts to deny their feelings for each other after being made painfully aware of those feelings
Griffith being left in the snow by Guts, and Guts learning about Griffithâs consequent crashing and burning – and specifically being stabbed by Casca while she screams that he broke Griffith
Both deny their feelings in like, a self harming manner. Sex with Charlotte is itself an act of self-destruction, while Guts just lets himself be stabbed first while denying any guilt in a disturbingly detached way
And additionally both these sexual encounters revolve around their respective dreams. Charlotte is a clear representation of Griffithâs dream and fucking her is his way of attaining it, just very badly timed due to being completely emotionally fucked up.
And Gutsâ brief relationship with Casca represents his dream to an extent as we see when he compares her to his sword in his inner monologue after sex, when sheâs the one he directs his whole promrose hall-y dream monologue to, when he invites her along with the caveat that she doesnât get in the way of his dream, and when she tells him to leave to pursue his dream at the worst possible moment.
Griffith couldnât manage to deny his feelings for very long, breaking down after Charlotte falls asleep, while Guts manages to hold out for a few days, and Iâd say finally fully stops denying his feelings when he conclusively realizes he shouldnâtâve left. âWhy do I always see these things after theyâre done and gone?â
basically i think guts and
griffith have parallel arcs wrt coming to terms with their particular
relationship and realizing they both value that relationship more than
their respective dreams, and both those arcs involve trying to use het
sex as a distraction before facing the music.
lol i posted the whole scene bc the context makes it better, but Griffithâs expression in this panel in particular is underappreciated.
right after guts calls him out on lying 3 years ago and before he turns away, smiles, and throws out the appropriately vague âno reason in particularâ denial.
like heâs uncomfortable at being called out on his distancing bullshit lol. this combined with âfor your sakeâ *smoulder* seems like a good example of griffith being unaware of his own feelings. like i always feel like that moment, the bedroom eyes, the âfor your sake,â nearly contradicts my reading of griffith as totally in denial and unaware that heâs in love, because itâs so pointed lol. itâs hard for me to read that moment and come away thinking griffith is unaware that heâs in love.
but i mean if thatâs the case then griffithâs discomfort right before that is less of a âshit heâs got a point, why the hell did i save him?â and more of an âi know why i saved him and i resent my inconvenient feelings.â
Which doesnât work because he does get genuine and personal enough immediately after for Guts to take it as a sign that heâs found the place where he belongs. It would be weird for Griffith to be thinking âbecause I love you(/feel very strong feelings towards you) and that could ruin everythingâ right before saying âfor your sakeâ and giving him that sultry look.
so âfor your sakeâ *smoulder* could just be a genuine expression of feelings regardless of whether he fully understands them. like it doesnât have to be deliberate, it could just be an accidentally revealing choice of phrasing. i mean like, thatâs how i default to reading it anyway, i just think that panel of griffithâs contemplative frowny face backs me up.
idk iâm just kinda bored rn and thinking outloud rly.
Yeah like, in canon they are surprisingly physical with each other. Or at least it surprises me on re-read how many of their significant relationship moments not just include but revolve around and specifically highlight physical touch.
Like from Griffith grabbing Gutsâ face like heâs going to pull him into a kiss after defeating him in a physical fight to Griffithâs âif you touch me nowâŚâ moment of reality-breaking despair, touch is portrayed as a really significant component of their relationship.
Actually to get on my meta shit real quick, check out their first interactions. First Griffith shoving Casca at Guts, explicitly because sheâs the only woman around and only a woman can cuddle naked with a dude (and damn if her first appearance doesnât define her role in the story to a tee). Next, they duel with swords. Extensions of themselves, but not their actual physical bodies. Then they lose their swords and end up physically grappling with each other, and correct me if Iâm wrong, but Iâm wracking my brain and Iâm pretty sure this is the only time weâve ever seen either of them fight without weapons.
Which leads to this:
Their first meeting has the sense of an inevitable, physical pull between them imo, and that is a constant of their relationship.
And their mutual desire for physical contact can only be satisfied when they have the pretense of guys being dudes to fall back on lol. A fight, in this case. In other cases itâs saving each othersâ lives, and supporting each other while injured mainly, and sometimes casual friendly touches, like Gutsâ hand on Griffithâs shoulder which gains significance during Griffithâs torture chamber monologue.
When they donât have that pretense available, when sex inevitably comes into the equation, thatâs when Casca or Charlotte comes between them as outlets for those decidedly non platonic feelings, as The Designated Socially (and psychologically thanks to trauma) Acceptable Woman.
(Iâd elaborate on that but like, I talk about Casca as an emotional and physical bridge between them a lot and have at least one giant thorough post about it. And Charlotte is just obvious. I figure weâre all on the same page here.)
Idk itâs not like they touch in every scene theyâre in or anything, more that most of their intensely emotional and narratively significant scenes either involve touch in significant ways, or the very pointed absence of it (eg Guts reaching out towards Griffith as he transforms before pulling his hand away and turning to fight apostles. Or, yk, Griffith straight up thinking about Guts at the exact moment of penetration during the Charlotte sex scene, which I still canât believe happened. Stuff like that lol).
So while I think them being physically drawn to each other and wanting to touch is v in character, and I can easily imagine them brushing shoulders, casually grabbing arms or w/e to get the othersâ attention, back and shoulder pats, arm wrestling, play fighting, etc etc, and I think thereâs plenty of indication that they probably find excuses to touch a lot, more importantly I think the narrative is telling us that physical touch is a significant aspect of their expression of feelings for each other regardless of how often they might actually get touchy feely.
ANYWAY iâm realizing that i have like fifty million things to say on this topic so Iâm going to write more posts later. For now Iâll get into the headcanony stuff.
So basically I think that they absolutely would get v awkward and kind of shy about touch after acknowledging that their feelings are sexual. Suddenly they realize why they want to touch each other so much, they both have hangups about it even assuming they navigate the whole sexuality issue smoothly, and it would probably take a little while to adjust even if everything goes perfectly.
But I donât think it would take very long, because the facts are that they really like being in physical contact with each other, and even if they got awkward for a while and second guessed things like shoulder pats or w/e a lot lol, they are ultimately used to touching and itâs pretty natural to them. Itâs how they express their emotional closeness, and it would become even moreso once they accepted the sexual aspect of their feelings.
If this is in the canon universe I could see trying to keep their hands off each other being more of a problem lol. I feel like if they did get together, just about everyone would figure it out pretty quickly. They are absolutely the couple who sits in each othersâ laps, leans against each other, casually wraps their arms around each other, etc, and it would be hard for them to refrain in general day to day interactions i m h o.
Also theyâd be adorable as fuck.
Tho also for the sake of angst I could see things going much less than smoothly wrt the sexuality angle, particularly with Guts, and if one of them realized their feelings arenât platonic first I could definitely see him physically withdrawing and specifically avoiding contact, whether itâs Guts or Griffith, though maybe especially if itâs Guts, and subtly making the other feel kind of neglected/rejected. But theyâd get through that eventually.
you're the only one 