and the matching clouds of breath on that page as a subtle reminder that griffith may be a god now but he’s got human characteristics now that he’s flesh and blood
and a subtle illustration of his turbulent emotions despite the serene image he portrays – we see guts panting heavily after exerting himself, while griffith looks calm, yet he has the same breath, and his heart is pounding
speaking of great moments
the view of griffith from behind and cut off at the eyes – his feelings hidden from guts, the audience, himself
contrasted to guts’ feelings at the forefront on display – guts’ ‘gh’ like the words, the apparent acknowledgement are a physical blow. ntm the way he holds himself back until griffith confirms – twice – that he feels nothing. hope is painful, and even worse when it’s given and then ripped away in like 30 seconds
if griffith remained serene i’d suggest that his face is largely hidden for the impact of ‘i am free’ and i think that’s part of it, but since his heart starts beating as he watches guts fight (in an echo of the very first time he saw guts in that courtyard js) i def think that this is a nice visual set up for neogriffith’s emotional ambiguity. we’re on the outside looking at a mysterious blank page, even when we’re in neogriffith’s thoughts – because griffith himself doesn’t understand his own heart.
i will never be over how ideal this moment is
femto reaching out -> closeup of guts -> closeup of femto -> femto failing to act -> guts + co escaping -> femto watching them disappear with a lowered hand, shown from a high angle -> a panel depicting femto from far above as a tiny dark smudge, alone and distant, singular, surrounded only by monsters
moments like these are depressing bc if i wasn’t supposed to find them cutely shippy i’d love them
like imagine guts and casca’s relationship without the veneer of slapped on romance. guts comforts her non-sexually after casca tries to kill herself, they renew their tentative friendship that began a year ago, they begin working in sync as comrades.
moments like these are, rather than romantic, symbolic of guts’ place as a hawk and the fact that he’s at his best with his friends – casca and guts are both badass warriors and part of a larger family which guts once abandoned.
imo without the romance berserk would actually be tighter thematically. casca would just be the last remnant of the hawks, because she was their leader in place of griffith – the way judeau said as he tried to rescue her. the whole pseudo ex girlfriend thing only complicates it and dilutes the theme of the hawks as guts’ family, and saving casca = atoning for leaving them.
like how many times post-eclipse does guts think of her as the last remnant of the hawks, the last ‘feeble flame’ left to him off the hawks’ campfire, vows not to abandon her after remembering leaving griffith, yadda yadda yadda? his sexual relationship with her is vastly de-emphasized (except when the beast of darkness starts throwing his feelings for griffith into the mix, hmmmm) bc it’s just not important to the point of the story.
I wonder if the brand discrepency is just because a few skulls with the same brand is a more ominious image than just one. It’s a bit of a jarring difference tho. But either way ia that Void was most likely the sage in the tower and the sacrifices at the bottom of the tower of rebirth are his.
I’ve heard the theory that Gaiseric was an escaped sacrifice of Void’s like Guts, though since Gaiseric is also paralleled to Griffith I like the idea that he’s the incarnated Godhand member from the previous cycle. Maybe he’s both lol, who says you can’t sacrifice a reborn Godhand saviour dude.
Aww Casca distracting him from his revenge boner, how sweet.
So then what’s this? “The instant I saw him… I’d forgotten my urge to kill. And I’m kinda concerned about that because I should want to kill him, and this is gonna fuck up my revenge groove.” Sounds like you just don’t feel like killing him quite as much now that he looks like your crush again.
So is it sexy naked Griffith or Casca killing it for you? What is the truth?
Well he lets Rickert hold him back from Griffith too, and I’m js Rickert isn’t exactly a match for Guts.
Looks like he’s taking any excuse he can not to swing a sword at him yk?
Finally he does shove Rickert aside only to yell at him again:
Gets Griffith’s “I’ll not betray my dream, that is all” in response, and finally attacks, only for
Zodd to suddenly appear out of nowhere in what is frankly such bullshit egregious plot convenience and timing (where the fuck was he hiding in the middle of this field? behind a sword?) that I can only assume Guts saw him and knew he’d be interrupted.
Like, I’m js Guts was a whole lot better at this when he had 20 broken bones for some reason.
“If you’re Griffith’s friend and equal” with the larger than life beautiful and noble image of Griffith dwarfing them, to “Why do I always see these things… after they’re done and gone…?” with what Griffith has become, tiny and weak, because Guts broke him by leaving to become his equal, itself proof that leaving was unnecessary.
Griffith as the image Guts wanted to rise up to join, whose love and affection and respect he craved vs Griffith as the human Guts was already equal to, who craved Guts’ love and affection and respect in kind.
I like that Griffith’s two examples describe both him and Guts in the future. Like Griffith isn’t into world domination now, he just wants to be a king, but it sounds like that’s where the Falconia thing/Gaiseric’s giant empire parallel is headed.
And Black Swordsman Guts is both literally tempering his giant sword by infusing it with evil ghost spirits and shit, and also metaphorically honing himself a la Godo’s metaphor for him thru his dream of revenge and fighting tougher and tougher enemies.
and when he got his lofty noble dream figured out it was inspired by Godo being a blacksmith
but at the end of the day both go hand in hand with self destruction so like Griffith was right on the money here
I love this sfm. Guts’ biggest mistakes (narratively) are abandoning people and baby Guts refusing to leave his dying mother is just so good as a moment to define him for us because of that. There’s a sense that when he leaves Griffith, eg, he’s betraying himself on some level as well.
Also consider:
i feel like the fact that guts sees the band down there, including his pseudo girlfriend, dying horribly and turns away to continue trying to save griffith long after it’s too late should be a bigger thing, both in fandom and in canon
re-reading a few eclipse chapters and it feels so striking to me that casca is down there with judeau and the hawks facing an army of demons while guts is up there with griffith, neither sparing a thought for the other. it feels like a short, rougher and more intense version of casca leading the hawks as outlaws while griffith is being tortured and guts is off trying to become his equal.
except it comes after guts and casca have slept together and seem to be having a thing, which makes it very… stark in the way it completely doesn’t fit into a romantic narrative.
plus you’d think that while guts is bemoaning his own shittiness in abandoning casca for two years and comparing it to leaving griffith in the snow he could spare a thought for that time he left her to fight a hoarde of rapey monsters because he was wrapped up in futilely trying to help griffith.
Also ngl I completely forgot that Guts actually looks down and sees the Band being eaten alive with his own eyes before deciding his best course of action is to stay up there and try to save Griffith.
speaking of the eclipse, griffith is shown this to convince him to sacrifice everyone
and this is what guts thinks of when he’s reluctantly coming to accept that griffith just agreed to sacrifice them
Guts remembers Griffith’s willingness to do underhanded shit despite feeling guilty about it, and Griffith remembers Guts telling him to do whatever’s necessary.
and while I think Guts feels guilty for driving Griffith to the point of desperation by leaving him, I don’t think he ever realized the effect his words here had on him. That thread’s probably been dropped by now but man I’d love for him to somehow realize what Griffith’s reaction was.
tbh I love the way this fight is structured so that Casca’s appearance on the scene gives me chills
Like you’re with Boscogne as the audience, wondering what the fuck Griffith’s plan is and how he hopes to win a fight against 30,000 men or whatever. Throughout the first half of the fight you’re going, okay what the fuck is going on, how is Griffith gonna capture this fortress???
The main force regroups with their backs to the river to put their lives on the line in a straightforward fight against a hopeless number of enemies, and Griffith’s like, ok but if we don’t die we’ll win, and you’re like, ….? doesn’t seem like a gr8 plan man.
And then bam suddenly it’s revealed that Casca’s the hinge on which Griffith’s plan turns, as she leads her troops in a surprise infiltration, and idk basically the way it cuts from the hopeless battle to Casca making it work is just rly delightful to me.
Another thing which gets skipped over in all the animations.
Usually Griffith is shown just passively listening to the God hand as if he’s thinking about their offer and then Guts obliviously gets angry and screams at them.
Look at this panel though.
Look how fucking distressed Griffith looks. That isn’t a “wow, tell me more” face. He’s shaking. He’s terrified. He looks like He’s trying to protest their assertion that he’ll sacrifice everyone.
And THAT’S what pisses Guts of. It’s because Griffith can’t put his distress into words and has no way to verbally protest and Guts can see that.
He’s yelling on Griffith’s behalf .
Also which makes me think. Often I’ve read or maybe even said myself that if Griffith hadn’t been in the exact state he was at the start of the eclipse he may not have agreed to the terms. But EVEN in that state without manipulation he wasn’t up for it.
After that of course lol. What was fated happened and all. And everything got fucked. But I still go back to teeny details to hurt my heart.
I love this so much.
One of my favourite things about the Golden Age is that there’s such a sense that the tragedy is a house of cards that could’ve come tumbling down if anything happened differently. Of course, thanks to fate, everything worked out perfectly to lead to the sacrifice, but there’s so many missed opportunities, half-finished sentences, crossroads, coincidences, and little significant details that it always makes me think, what if X happened differently? Even up to the Eclipse.
What if Casca finished a sentence, what if the King hadn’t interrupted Guts and Griffith on the staircase, what if the maid hadn’t seen Griffith with Charlotte, what if Guts hadn’t let go of Griffith’s hand on the mountain of heads, what if Guts never told Griffith to do whatever he had to do for the sake of his dream so the Godhand couldn’t whip up that handy memory to convince him, etc etc.
Everything had to happen exactly right (or wrong) for Griffith to sacrifice Guts and the Band. That’s a big reason the moment is so narratively satisfying to me imo.
I’m re-reading some of the golden age for finding instances of Guts’ attraction to Griffith reasons but man the way the story is structured it still floors me how strong the focus is on Guts and Griffith’s feelings for each other.
Chapter 1, the very first event we get to contextualize the previous three years which we skipped, where the characters are now and how they’re getting along, is Guts charging into battle against orders and Casca being pissy about it so Miura can show us the dynamic: Guts is Griffith’s fave and everyone knows it, Casca is resentful.
That’s the important info we need to establish going into the story. I love it.
(plus the first sight of Guts and Griffith unhelmeted after 3 years is the two of them staring at each other but the way it’s shown it’s more a part of the aforementioned ‘instances of guts’ attraction,’ coming soon)
The background reactions are so pointless to me except as like, an additional reminder that Casca has a crush on Griffith.
I actually kind of wonder if like, idk, Miura was trying to tease the possibility here bc of Guts’ whole trying-to-be-a-good-bro-and-set-them-up thing? But that doesn’t really make sense to me bc that assumes the reader is an idiot who doesn’t know Griffith’s dedicated to his marry Charlotte plan and also in love with Guts, and one thing I’ll grant Miura as a writer is that he doesn’t treat his audience like idiots.
Like when Judeau spells Griffith’s practical need to marry the princess out to Guts a little later it shouldn’t come as a shock to the audience.
So idk maybe their slightly scandalized expressions are just a little joke at Casca’s expense.
But w/e aside from that one thing I do rly like about this scene is that Griffith’s compliment comes straight from Guts lol.
It’s kind of touching when you remove the possibility of het undertones and look at it as Guts’ influence helping Griffith come down to earth a little. It’s a nice full-circle moment starting from Guts thinking Griffith keeping the Hawks in the dark regarding his faking-his-death plan is “a little cruel” (something that doesn’t seem to occur to Griffith as an issue) and concluding with Guts and Griffith’s casual friendly interactions helping Griffith make up for it a little.
i can’t handle this lmao, like the fact that guts is fucking pouting and charlie-brown-walking away because neogriffith didn’t give him the time of day, actually directly comparing it to when he walked out on Griffith and ruined his life, is incredible to me.
like what do redditbro types, the ones who see berserk as an uncomplicated tale of a dude who hates another dude who ruined his life and wants revenge against him, do with this bit?
tbh tho griffith’s second expression here fucks me up so much
i mean, cover his smile, and he looks almost like he’s holding back tears. there’s so much emotion in that one fucking drawing like… he’s hurt, but not really by guts’ words so much as the reminder of his dream. and it’s not like a sudden reminder of the weight of guilt on him or w/e, it’s like
idk like it reminds me of the moment griffith asked guts to kill julius and guts was like ‘just order me to do it’ and we didn’t see griffith’s expression then, and it probably wasn’t this intense, but i imagine guts’ answer was a disappointing reminder of the artificial distance between griffith and guts based on status and now class etc. and i feel like this is the same – this is griffith treating guts like the only friend he has and opening up in a vulnerable moment and guts returning that distance between them by reminding griffith of his dream.
and in this moment the reminder of his dream hurts not for all the reasons it should, but bc it’s a barrier between him and guts, yk?
idk this is such a crossroads moment imo and ugh this scene is so perfect
Anyway, on Griffith always facing away in Guts’ memories:
Guts left Griffith in the snow in an attempt to become Griffith’s equal. When he came back, by all standards of measurement these two dudes give a fuck about, Guts is by far his superior. Griffith was broken by Guts leaving, then broken by torture, and is dependent physically and emotionally on him.
It’s a very be careful what you wish for thing lol.
However, one side-effect of the Eclipse, not intended by Griffith but intended by the narrative, is it’s a reset button on their stupid power dynamic obsession – Guts has another shot at achieving his dream, ironic as that is.
Guts left, when he came back he discovered in as brutal a way as possible that he left for no reason. The fact that his leaving destroyed Griffith was proof that his attempt to become Griffith’s equal was based on misinformation. However, after the Eclipse, Griffith is a god and now Guts is back at square one.
This is basically directly stated when Guts thinks of Griffith’s friendship speech while declaring war on him.
So I think part of the reason he usually remembers Griffith with his back turned is basically because he’s in a cycle of pursuing him, first to stand beside him, and now to drag him down to him.
Which begs 2 questions imo:
1. Can Guts break free of this cycle? 2. Does Guts need to pursue Griffith at all to be his equal, or does the irony of the Golden Age (I left to be your equal but turns out I already was lol whoops) still hold true? ie, how emotionally compromised is NeoGriff?
you think the torturers being outcasts collected by and devoted to mozgus is supposed to be a preview of neogriff’s apostles/war demons
tbh actually it makes sense bc it’s easy to view mozgus and neogriff as foils. like they both got that sinister angelic thing going on but their differences are more light-shedding than any similarities – the whole conviction rebirth arc was largely about outcasts and creating enemies out of other groups to strengthen your group (ie religion) while the point of falconia is to unite humanity with literal fantasy monsters as the enemy. mozgus’ outcasts tortured people, griffith’s save people. mozgus condemned most people, griffith accepts everyone. mozgus upheld the status quo and the way of the world (those with power trample those without) while griffith creates a world with a new status quo
and this is humanity’s deepest desire so it’s basically a direct response to mozgus and people like him dividing and conquering and demonizing outsiders and upholding nobility while making the lower classes suffer etc.
there’s a whole false god vs true saviour w/ divine right vibe i get from this comparison. and i mean the true saviour is still a largely cynical depiction since berserk is in part a criticism of religion, “god” included, but neogriff’s utopia is a lot less easy to denounce as fucked up and evil than mozgus’ inquisition thing.
Man they’re like beginning the most important conversation of their lives here and it’s genuinely tragic that they never get to finish it bc it could’ve changed so much. Like this exchange is enough for Guts to begin to realize that maybe he’s found a
home and the nebulous thing he’s been searching for (love,
affection, respect – everything he never got from Gambino) here, with
Griffith.
But it’s not enough for Griffith to get in touch
with his own emotions. I think he could’ve though, if the conversation
had a chance to keep going. Guts’ response to Griffith’s “do I need a
reason each time I put myself in harm’s way for your sake” started with,
“No, I just -” before he was interrupted. And the fact that Miura
chose to make it an interruption instead of letting their conversation
end before the king and co show up tells me that the conversation
wasn’t over – so it wasn’t Guts saying, “No, I just wanted to ask,” or
something meek and final.
It was Guts saying, “No, I just thought I was
just another soldier to you,” or “No, I just don’t understand why you would,” or “No, I just never thought there’d be someone who would risk
their life for me.” Yk, something that would force Griffith to consider
what he just said and what it actually means and make it impossible for him to keep deflecting.
fun fact guts has always had a dream and it’s not “fight tough dudes at exhibitions” or “fight monsters” or “avenge the hawks” or “be the best at the sword”
griffith’s dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
which is why this is so utterly cutting:
and why this just left guts totally dejected and made him give up that dream:
and why if guts finds out that griffith’s heart is bthumping for him that’s going to be either a serious game-changer, or a serious test of guts’ resolve in moving on from his dream.
in the golden age always looked too big to me. I think there was this colour illustration once where they were all sitting around a campfire. and griffiths profile was in the foreground and he looked much much skinnier than the impression he gave whenever we usually see him in armour.
I wonder if it was a deliberate thing. To make himself look bigger?
i remember seeing a post somewhere about Griffith’s flashback armour with musculature details and how it thematically fits with Casca’s statement that Griffith is ultimately a weak human who has to make himself strong for his dream. Anyway i totally agree with you, the other armour fits that idea too, if less overtly.
Time to finally lay out my thoughts on these parallels and contrasts between Gambino, Griffith and Femto/NeoGriff.
Ok so starting with Human Golden Age 100% Certified Organic Griffith, even tho the parallels start off strong in the Black Swordsman arc, whatever, we’ll go chronologically.
So I remember saying that I had many thoughts on this but going back an examining them I found that pretty much all of that was mostly just me agreeing with the things you had already gone over in your post.
One thing though, Guts visualising Griffith in the moon is kind of a very interesting image for me. Because we have two other strong instances of similar imagery. The night Guts kills Gambino and at the end of Run he makes from Godo’s cave post-eclipse. In both cases he’s down, flat on his back, exhausted, doubting everything he’s ever known, not having any particular desire to go on.
And just then he looks up at the moon, and slowly pulls himself up again.
The presence of the moon almost seems to galvanise his actions and light up the way for him. Guts in that moment, seeing Griffith’s face in the moon and dedicating his current life path to him kinda seems like a symbolic extension of this fact.
Actually It’s interesting how Griffith is visualised in Guts head as to do with sources of lights, On the stairs of promrose hall he appears like a beacon, visualised as light at the end of the tunnel, as an inferno, as the moon, campfires, “Dazzling”, “burns so bright”.
Guts is one of the maybe only characters who has never compared Griffith to inanimate things or commodities- Never a doll, painting, statue, fine wine, idol or sculpture.
Fires are quite alive.
Nice! I’ve been checking out the moon imagery as I read and scratching my head ngl. I feel like the full moon represents fulfillment of some kind. Magic is at its strongest, moonlight kid shows up, Guts finds the will to keep going, Guts dedicates his sword to Griffith, etc.
Conversely, the eclipse is technically a new moon, and non-full moons appear prominently occasionally during signficant moments like Guts and Griffith’s last assassination together, Sonia’s chapter on loneliness, Rosine flying back home and dying, Ganeshka leveling up to Eldrich Abomination status (”on a night when you can’t see the moon”), etc
But idk it’s not completely consistent or anything and it’s nothing I can draw conclusions from.
Also gooooood point about Griffith as a source of light to Guts I don’t have anything to add to that, but it’s perfect.
woah woah woah i just realized i called that panel of sexy guts a griffith point of view shot but it isn’t, he can’t even see his face. But in the context of the shot reverse shot set-up (Griffith’s eyes, followed by what he’s actually seeing, followed by a closeup of Guts looking sexy actually from Casca’s pov, followed by what he’s actually seeing again, followed by Griffith’s eyes again) it’s an even clearer indication that he’s jealous of Casca and wants to be her in that moment imo. Like that shot of sexy Guts is a v straightforward visual depiction of desire centred so wholly between Griffith’s gaze that it feels like what he’s imagining she sees.
And the panel directly after it visually emphasizes Griffith’s removal and distance from them. Like damn the longing is palpable.
bc this is basically an addition to my reply to you, i just didn’t add it to the original post bc it was getting long and yk my point is still the same.
you're the only one 