I remember when Casca told Guts to go without her and to abandon her and Griffith. Do you think it is foreshadowing anything?

hmmmmm yeah in a way I’d say so.

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It is kind of an additional little suggestion that Black Swordsman Guts is in fact pursuing his dream, and is still motivated by his desire to be Griffith’s friend and equal, and have his attention on him (in yk kind of a fucked up way Guts doesn’t really acknowledge to himself). He does go off alone to fight stronger and stronger enemies, leaving Casca behind, and in the Lost Children arc especially the risk of Guts becoming a monster himself and joining Griffith again that way comes to the forefront.

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And in general it fits nicely with the sense that Guts leaving people and doing his own thing is bad shit, and Guts staying with people who need him is positive and good. Casca’s encouragement is misguided, leads to the Eclipse, and ironically fits Guts’ dumb actions post-Eclipse.

So yeah I’d call it forshadowing for Guts leaving Casca behind in the cave to pursue a version of his dream.

(griffith hate anon) yeah the post said griffith is a misogynist bc his promrose hall speech is masculine in language, eg “a man must come upon another precious thing (…) to accomplish it for him, for himself”, “to me a friend (…) would determine and pursue his own reason to live” etc. which apparently means he thinks women can’t have dreams just duties and they can’t be his friend/equal lmfao (this is dumb as it is to me but also iirc in the jap/og version he uses gender neutral terms??)

chaoticgaygriffith:

bthump:

Ohhh right.

Huh now I’m actually curious if that speech is gender neutral in Japanese, because honestly the focus on men in that speech did seem like… pretty typical of Berserk in general lol. Like Miura really elevates same-gender relationships over opposite-sex relationships which are almost always romantic by default, and generally treated as lesser, or as stepping stones to that most important relationship (eg nina leaving with a dude so she can one day feel worthy of being luca’s friend) and the speech fits that pattern perfectly, so I always assumed it was deliberately gendered – not so much as a reflection on Griffith (tho again in the context of being repressed but desiring that all-important relationship with a man specifically… I’m still okay with it) but bc of Miura’s own biases.

But it’d be nice if it was actually gender neutral bc the focus on men men men, especially that first “but for a man he must first come upon one other precious thing” or w/e the line was, was pretty annoying.

sorry to bring bad news but that convo was anything but gender neutral. like, griffith started it by mentioning that charlotte asked him why /men/ love spilling blood so much so the men vs women divide was there from start to finish

actually the official translation was completely consistent with the original in terms of levels of gendering:

(男, otoko, officially translated as “man/men”)

(者, mono, officially translated as “one”)

(人, hito, officially translated as “people” and then 男, otoko, “man/men” again)

and then griffith ends the conversation like “sorry that must have been a boring topic for a lady (女性, josei)”

so like yeah japanese is a mostly gender neutral language in that its verbs and adjectives are not inflected by gender etc. but that doesn’t mean that all japanese conversations are completely gender neutral. far from it actually

Thank you! Yeah like I said, the way this convo is gendered fits the story to me and imo still reflects more on Miura than Griffith, but like, it doesn’t not fit Griffith imo. It still serves my interpretation of him so I’m cool w/ this.

Also yeah very good point about the abbreviation, ty for mentioning it. JP is definitely preferable if you’re going to shorten the word “japanese,” even if it’s just intended as shorthand and not a slur.

suddenly had the realization that we didn’t really get to see much of Griffith post-torture. Like yeah, he was there, we saw him, we got a great monologue about how in love with Guts he is, but what I mean is that like, all his trauma and all the pre-eclipse emotional devastation revolves around his permanent injuries rather than, yk like, ptsd.

We aren’t shown at all how the fact of being tortured constantly for a year might have traumatized him. Like everyone’s fucked up by the fact that he’s no longer physically capable of leading the Hawks, but like, even if he was, would he have been emotionally capable?

I mean a year of torture is huge, for any other character that would be the defining event of a narrative, whether he could physically recover or not. But Miura just kind of bypasses it entirely to focus on his physical dependency and his feelings for Guts. And I mean I love those feelings, I’m not complaining about the focus on that, but the lack of trauma wrt a year of experiencing extreme pain is kind of conspicuous.

Idk it feels like the torture was just kind of Miura’s convenient lead-in to the Eclipse and way to destroy Griffith’s dream, and it feels a little unfortunately shallow overall. Like he could’ve even just had a reference or two to how being tortured for a year might have affected him – like say Ubik using it to help convince him to make the sacrifice: doesn’t being an incorporeal being who can’t feel pain sound p tempting right now?

Also relatedly, consider this:

NeoGriffith isn’t just Golden Age Griffith transformed into a demon transformed into a mysterious wildcard. NeoGriffith is Golden Age Griffith + a year of torture transformed into a demon transformed into a wildcard. Like his “base” isn’t the Griffith we came to know and love over however many chapters of the Golden Age we got before Guts left, his base is, theoretically, an incredibly traumatized version of that Griffith we know.

Idk I just suddenly found myself wishing for more emotional/psychological exploration of the effects of that year of torture, and it made me wonder about NeoGriffith’s memories of being human. I feel like there’s potential there. I feel like there’s some thematic follow-through, along the lines of him being “beyond the reach of man” and Ganeshka’s empty threats, but some hints of emotional follow through would be v interesting.

this probably won’t lead anywhere deep but do you have any thoughts on griffiths reaction when guts asks him if he’s gay?

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this is absolutely me projecting my own interp of griff but i feel like this reaction is an “i get asked this way too often and it bothers me bc i don’t want to have to answer it/bc i’m p sure i know the answer and i’m trying not to think about it”

tho to be more fun I could also see “shit was i that obvious?”

or “oh no, he’s straight.” (luckily he’s wrong)

also his reaction in the ova is more along the lines of “yes, dumbass.” or actually i think guts’ q there was ‘in what way’ so it could also be like, giggling when the hot person asks if you like them but playing it off bc you don’t want them to know you like them. I mean they are basically awkward teenagers lol.

and i guess on a more meta level i can say that the fact that griffith doesn’t answer is like, so telling. i have no idea what miura wanted me to think here if he didn’t want me to think griffith was gay. he could’ve easily had griffith say something like ‘no’ or ‘don’t be ridiculous i’m talking about your fighting’ or whatever. or, yknow, not brought up the question at all lol.

Like ok in response to that one ask yesterday I talked about how Guts is projecting his trauma here a bit, so in theory that’s why it’s brought up and why Griff couldn’t immediately shut him down, but honestly – it’s immensely unnecessary. Guts changes his tune immediately after losing lol and they become mutually pining bffs like a week later. As set-up to make Griffith seem more threatening before switching to portraying him as a good guy, it’s unnecessary bc we’ve already seen femto, he’s already imbued with a lingering senese of threat from the bs arc. Plus, yk, it’s homophobic and annoying, playing into that predatory gay shit.

There’s got to be more to it than that, or it’s like, plain old shitty writing. So that’s why it’s also an early indicator of the true nature of their relationship, and neatly foreshadows how trauma makes it impossible for them to see it. Because that takes it from bad writing to good, layered writing.

idk what miura intended but i like Good Berserk so idc.

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These lines are only 4 pages apart.

I’ve been thinking of running away as like… something Berserk contextualizes as immature and negative. Rosine running away to her land of the elves and eventually regretting it when she flies home to die. Guts running away so his malice could burn inside him. This dude:

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Griffith’s sacrifice:

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yadda yadda yadda.

And I’ve been kind of reluctantly expecting Falconia to follow suit as an immature, ultimately negative escape from the realities of the world.

But, in addition to Godo’s first statement up there, there are also lines like Casca’s as Guts fights Wyald:

“Why does he… always have to fight…? It’s alright… to just run away sometimes…”

So there’s a distinction to be made between running away so you can fuck shit up and express your anger (Guts’ revenge campaign, apostles making a sacrifice in despair and turning into monsters) vs running away from war and hatred and violence. Maybe running to a peaceful place where the monsters help humanity.

Like, maybe it is an important distinction that Rosine’s land of the elves was essentially a place where she could reenact the violence done to her on other people and call it a game, while Falconia is… just a sweet place to live lol. A kingdom where the violence suffered and perpetuated by its more monstrous inhabitants has no place anymore.

Re: griffith’s torture chamber monologue do you happen to know what’s the original japanese word they translated as “hunger”? I wonder if it has any particular connotation in japanese

chaoticgaygriffith:

bthump:

I do not, but this is a good question and one I’m also curious about. I can say that the anime replaced it with “love” (whether the word itself changed or the translation, idk) so it wouldn’t surprise me if it sounds just as suggestive in japanese as in english, or more so.

@chaoticgaygriffith no pressure to answer this, but do you have any insight on the word? (i’m sure you know exactly the page we’re talking about but just in case, chapter 49)

And actually while I’m wondering about this I’ve always been curious, is it the same word Ganeshka uses on this page? (chapter 282)

the word used is 飢餓感 (きがかん/kigakan) which can mean either hunger literally or hunger as in a strong desire/wish for something

and seeing as how griffith was listing emotions here, moreso than physical sensations (although some emotions–like pain, or you could say even all of them ig–are at the same time physical sensations), i would argue that he meant the latter

though it’s probably unclear on purpose, or it’s like clever wordplay of sorts since he’s literally in pain and starved and also additionally emotionally in pain and starved

and no sadly it’s not the same word ganishka used (he used 飢え渇く/うえかわく/uekawaku) but i don’t think that means there’s no parallel to be drawn here

tyvm for the response! sounds like it basically has the same connotation of saying you feel hunger while thinking about someone in english.

i def don’t think he meant literal hunger since he’s listing feelings specifically for guts, but i like the idea that it could be deliberate wordplay (along with pain) to yk compare the torture to being without guts/his feelings for guts. which would be very fitting imo.

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I just wanna say, there are 2 possible reasons Guts wants to keep feeling the pain Griffith caused him.

1. Because he wants to want to kill him, and it’s a reminder of why he wanted revenge in the first place. His rage needs fuel.

2. Because Griffith (Femto) deliberately wanted to hurt him. yk as opposed to NeoGriffith saying he doesn’t give a fuck and leaving him moping in the snow. He’d rather be looked at with hatred than not seen at all.

and imo it’s both.

a-girl-named-chester
replied to your post “Okay but how come guts reacts this way when seeing griff tortured face…”

Unsolicited opinion here lol, but I think another reason Griffith might be pretty again in his domestic nightmare sequence has to do with his internal self-image. Like, I have long hair now, but always envision myself with my old short hair.
He might have been envisioning himself the way he used to look, even if he was still disabled in the dream. (Also this is stupid, but until now idk if it really registered in my mind that he was disabled in the dream whoops)

Oh yeah this is totally a legit reading of the scene too, and it makes sense and is what I typically assume to be the case. Like it does seem like a stretch to assume Griffith wouldn’t even have any scars (tho the way the scene’s illustrated his face does have kind of a… like an ambiguous look to it the way it’s shadowed and shaded throughout?

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like I’ve always vaguely wondered if we’re supposed to read some scarring into the way Miura shades his face in this scene. But idk. I also think it’s thematically appropriate for Griffith to picture himself without scars here regardless of whether that would actually be the case in reality, yk, his beauty being a thing, the sort of heteronormative picturesque nightmare here, etc. So really I could go either way.)

I know the movies went full missing skin + exposed face muscles, but I complain about the patches of missing skin thing being stupid too much to just accept that lol. (Also if that’s the case why the hell wouldn’t you bandage his face too? what were you thinking, ova people?)

But idk whatever the case is it doesn’t really change my feeling that Guts’ reaction to seeing his face is a little too intense to be taken fully at face value.

hotaru-dream
replied to your post “sobadpink
replied to your post “sobadpink
replied to your post …”

In the official guidebook it is said that their estimed age are the same
(24 years old when published, but it’s quite “recent” so not sure about when they met)

YES!

that’s the official berserk guidebook that came out in like 2017? I’m assuming they’re not including elfhelm time dilation shennanigans or subtracting the 2-3 years Griffith spent as Femto on the astral plan or w/e in that, so it probably means they were both 15ish (since Guts was 15) when they met

Looking for berserk characters’ name meanings, I found out that casca in portoguese means “(soft) shell/husk”, and I also found this post: reddit(.)com/r/Berserk/comments/646s14/sudden_realization_about_casca/. Idk if miura actually named her after the portoguese word, but the post is interesting. What do you think? (Fun fact: in italian casca also means “he/she/it is falling”, fitting if not offensive lol. And you probably already know this, but in shakespeare’s julius caesar casca was the 1/2

2/2 And you probably already know this, but in roman history and
shakespeare’s julius caesar, casca was the soldier who stabbed caesar
first, and if you see griffith as caesar and guts as brutus, it makes me
wonder if casca will join guts in fighting griffith?)

I wonder about the relevance of her name, because it seems like the Eclipse rape (and presumably her subsequent insanity) wasn’t Miura’s original intention, since he’s mentioned that he originally didn’t plan to have Guts and Casca get together, and hooked them up for added Eclipse drama. So the portuguese connection might be coincidence. But who knows?

I could see the Julius Caesar reference being intentional for sure.

tbh tho my favourite Casca name connection is to the Casca the Eternal Mercenary series lol (I’ve heard it’s a Known Thing that Miura references names from old pulp fantasy books at least, so it’s maybe not totally out there?) I mean, the mercenary who stabbed Jesus is cursed to live as an immortal mercenary, which is like my ideal ending for Casca lmao, so I want to believe.

Either way I like that there are 2 possible connections to stabby soldiers.

sobadpink
replied to your post “griffith and guts were like 17/16 ish when they met right? modern au…”

Considering casca is supposed to be the same age as Guts, and she met Griffith when she was still young, and Griffith was old enough to not look off in armour, I would say Griffith is at least 3 years older than both of them

all the straightforward info we have on anyone’s age other than Guts, as far as I know, comes from the movie guides, which I think do say Casca is Guts’ age and Griffith is 3 years older. But I don’t think (and please correct me if I’m wrong or forgetting something) that’s stated in the manga anywhere.

Could be Miura signed off on it or suggested it himself, or it’s in the guidebook too or something, but I personally still wouldn’t consider it technically canon if it’s not in the manga. I mean I’m biased because I like the idea of G+G being about the same age. But also I have a rly hard time seeing Griffith as 18 before the 3 year time skip:

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Especially w/ Guts thinking of him as just a kid, and about his age, etc. Three years is a p noticable age gap when you’re teenagers.

and Casca could also be around the same age, rather than younger than either imo. she says she was 12 when Griffith saved her (to me she looks younger than that, but w/e, canon says 12), and I could easily buy Griffith as around 12-13 in that scene just going off looks. He acts older, bc at this point he’s got more life experience, but honestly they both look like babies to me

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I mean maybe it’s a stretch to think of a 12 yr old leading a group of bandits soon to be mercenaries, but enh child soldiers abound in Berserk, Rickert was a unit captain at about that age lol, and the other Hawks are also relatively young according to Guts so I can suspend my disbelief and accept it.

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Maybe it’s a bit much to equate Guts swinging his sword several hundred times until his hand is covered in blisters to Griffith scratching himself, but hey both are forms of self-harm associated with their dreams. (Plus the blisters work as a solid symbol of Guts’ typical self-destructive way of fighting, letting monsters stab him so he can shoot them, that kinda thing).

Anyway I just noticed that Guts’ hand was bandaged the morning he left the Hawks despite it having been a month since he had to kill anyone, and was like, hmm.

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i love the detail of guts’ eye dripping blood here

it’s a symbol of despair that’s rly effective in illustrating guts’ feelings here (moreso than the run imho lol) despite not actually having any literal correlation to his emotions – yk bc it’s reminiscent of griffith crying blood after the behelit opened – and it’s gr8 that it comes right after that last memory of griffith.

it’s like a little mirror. each the source of the others’ despair.

The first idea I got from the last expresstion from Griffith before he start transforming into Femto: he was pleased with the latest developments. He got his “making his dream reality” hope comes anew, and he has nothing to do with Guts anymore. What do you think about it? I saw you say he meant to give Guts last love smile. Can you explain more, please?

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I think it really just comes down to how you interpret Miura’s facial expressions but to me this looks tender and loving.

It’s Griffith’s last glimpse of Guts, after choosing to sacrifice him but before he starts shedding pieces of himself and transforming, and seeing that love in his eyes just makes this moment for me lol.

He’s content with his decision, there’s no anguish there or second guessing or wishing it could’ve been another way. It’s maybe even relishing this last glimpse of Guts, and of being able to feel that love without it also like, causing him pain, because he knows this is the end of it.

I mean I’m just reading really into it because this is how I see Griffith and his feelings at the end of his story, but I think it fits the image.

I think your interpretation is fair and makes sense, like, he does look pleased and I think he is, but the look in his eye is just so damn tender, yk? Like he’s saying goodbye, without malice, and just drinking in the last sight of Guts he’ll ever have. I think love is definitely part of this moment.

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soft breeze, check. leaves, check. casca gets a starry/campfire-y background while griffith gets the intense bedroom eyes and general beautification, which i feel is a fair trade.

casca gets this romanticized shot right before treating guts’ wounds; griffith gets this romanticized shot right after not having an excuse for risking his life for guts.

anyway lol this is a prime example of casca getting some of the romance cues griffith used to get once a) guts decides griffith is unreachable at the moment and b) miura decided the eclipse needed more ~drama~

and ok one more thing about this part

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this is actually pretty damn non-wholesome, to the extent that i’m kind of surprised none of the characters were like, ‘wait a second this oppressively cutesy place attacked us with a giant cage full of the trapped spirits of people they burned alive to power it’

like it just kind of happened completely without commentary or attention drawn to it, and lbr it’s berserk so it can get away with that

but also i’m happily filing it away as strong evidence that elfhelm is more than capable of being fucked up. like, magic drawing power from the lives of sacrificed people eh? where’ve we seen that before?

I’m going to lay out some visuals here real quick bc I just noticed another good detail lol

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Griffith on a black background, Guts on a white background. Light and dark, connection and loneliness, and Guts as Griffith’s last connection to humanity before he’s carried up into darkness.

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Guts and Griffith brightly lit in contrast to the surrounding darkness as they clutch each others’ hands, because this is what they are to each other. Their connection is what illuminates the darkness, what staves off loneliness.

Guts is both the source of Griffith’s despair and the only thing capable of preventing him from succumbing to it. “He was the reason I’ve been thrown into this darkness and now he’s the sole sustenance keeping me alive.” Same kinda thing.

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Guts falling away, lit in comparsion to Griffith blending in with the background. Griffith losing that light.

These pages are just a great illustration of Guts and Griffith as each others’ brightest things, and what they lose when they give up each other.

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ooh these are some good visuals

how long will i have to creep in darkness… until him? but femto, depicted at peak inhuman here, is just more fucking darkness.

because this is still guts scrabbling for whatever’s left of the “dazzling” griffith, the griffith who shone and chased away the darkness of loneliness. like i’ve said this before and i’ll say it again, but his revenge quest isn’t (solely) about revenge, it’s about missing griffith and desperately wanting that connection again. the rage is a convenient reason to chase him that’s more justifiable to himself than “I still want him to look at me.”

the visual metaphor of light and dark, companionship and isolation, and how constant it’s been in guts and griffith’s relationship in particular is just so fucking good

during griffith’s monologue in the dungeon he listed jealousy as one of the feelings he had for guts.. what did u think of that? what was he jealous of?

I’ve assumed that it referred to wanting guts’ attention and regard, wanting guts to be focused on him, jealously guarding his relationship with guts, essentially.

but jealousy is kind of a weird word bc yk it can be synonymous with envy but also not necessarily, it can also be more possessive (like quickly double checking tells me that jealousy is more desiring to keep what you already have whereas envy is wanting what you don’t have, when they’re not used as synonyms), and context doesn’t really help here, so idk.

cause like if it is meant here as synonymous with envy then that could be interesting – he might be jealous of the way guts isn’t tied to a dream, ironically. the lack of guilt and the weight of death on his shoulders, etc.

but I guess without any additional information about the original japanese I’d still err on the side of jealous as in possessive of his relationship with guts and insecure about it, particularly considering guts and casca’s fling soon becomes an issue.

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holy fuck this just hit me like a brick. the way “do you think i’m cruel” is slightly separate from the other two memories, coming after Guts stops denying it and begins thinking “is this…”

“do you think that I’m cruel?”

“is this… what you wanted?”

it’s the moment griffith has least wanted this.

guts’ answer is what the godhand use to convince him to agree. it’s the moment that could’ve changed what happened here, if griffith had gotten a different answer.

like damn that is painfully ironic.

more spoilers ofc

yesgabsstuff
replied to your post “ch 355, more random musing[[MOR] i s2g it’s like this chapter was…”

The. Fucking. Feathers.

thank you so it’s not just me thinking like

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this is kinda suspect

also the helix in the necklace a la brand of sacrifice that i just noticed?

like i’m not saying danann dressed her in this to be secretly evil, but i’m thinking it’s subtle visual hinting re: the source of her trauma, hawks/sacrifice/griffith, and purposefully suggestive as a little added layer of ominousness

i mean i’d take it as coincidence considering it’s mostly petals in the dress, but those hairpieces, man

Chapter One serves to re-establish the characters’ relationships with each other after three years fighting together and foreshadow their future conflicts as their relationships change. This is especially evident during the last scene of the chapter.

The interspersing of Guts’ rote sword exercise with Griffith’s knighting as
he reaches a significant milestone on the path to his dream subtly
illustrates the eventual conflict between Griffith’s dream and his
relationship with Guts by contrasting Guts’ aimlessness with Griffith’s
ambition, ie the source of Guts’ eventual inner conflict that leads to him leaving the Hawks.

And these directly subsequent panels in particular invite a visual
comparison between Guts’ sword and the sword that represents Griffith’s dream, hinting at the way Griffith is torn between Guts and his dream.

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Finally, the clear phallic imagery indicates that they want to bone the fuck down.

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my overanalytical brain that sees meaning everywhere even when it’s a big stretch: patches of light surrounded by darkness for casca and charlotte’s side of the panel, a la isolation, indicating that they are on the outside looking in while guts and griffith (and judeau but who cares) are against the lit wall.

the rest of me: hand holding!!!

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cut for graphically nsfw het (charlotte sex scene)

this is a sequence of panels in berserk, i’ve omitted none and didn’t change the order, and people still argue it’s not gay

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literally, the instant he puts his dick in he thinks of guts leaving, then looks down and charlotte is reflected in his wide eye like a taunt

this is by a wide margin the gayest hetero sex scene i’ve ever seen, i still occasionally end up re-reading it and being taken aback all over again, like tonight