sorry I’m not sure if you’ve answered this before or not but I have to ask you. I was lurking reddit the other day and I found this post about guts choosing casca over his revenge on griffith. what do you think?

I genuinely think the authorially intended reading of Guts’ decision is that it’s complicated and there are multiple reasons Guts is choosing to take Casca to Elfhelm over revenge right now. It’s not a simple matter of Casca straightforwardly being more important to him or just choosing Casca over Griffith.

Hopefully this is the kind of answer you’re looking for, idk the subject is a little broad. I’ve kind of said this in some other posts too but I think it’d be handy to have a nice and orderly list to link to so I’m just throwing it all out in response to you.

So here are the various complicated reasons I think Guts has for going on his take Casca to Elfhelm quest:

1. He gives a fuck about Casca. He gave a fuck about her and saved her life even back when he hated her, because she was his comrade, and I’d certainly hope he cares about her now.

2. Elf cave is gone, and he’s not so shitty a person that he’s just going to abandon her in a field for ghosts to eat.

3. He is aware that revenging made him a worse person and he wants to be better. Guts at his best is someone who does not abandon his friends and family but rather stands by them in their hours of need, and he wants to be that person again.

Good Guts:

Bad Guts:

Good Guts:

Bad Guts:

Like, yk, abandoning people or staying with them is kind of Guts’ major thing throughout the story.

4. He is longing for a piece of his lost past, and Casca represents the Hawks.

Additionally suggested by how every time he pictures her from the past, after that last pic, it’s as a Hawk commander.

And statements like this:

And the general fact that he’s trying to “force” her sanity back despite forboding warnings and actually contemplating on page how awful it might be for Casca, suggesting that it’s less for Casca’s own sake and more Guts’ selfish need to regain some of his happy past.

5. Griffith looking human and sexy makes him forget his urge to kill, lessening the temptation of revenge and probably making Guts doubt his ability to follow through.

nuff said

6. Guts’ whole revenge campaign was less about revenge and more about making himself feel better and getting Griffith’s attention. Last time he saw Griffith the dude declared that he was completely free of his feelings for him and then “deserted” him in the snow lol. This has also lessened the temptation of revenge – now pursuing Griffith feels extra fruitless, because Griffith (claims he) doesn’t give a fuck.

quick illustration:

swinging his sword making him feel better

guts wanting attention

also i have this much longer post here where i talk a lot about guts’ attitude towards revenge and femto and neogriffith etc for a more thorough explanation

7. He feels guilty for abandoning Griffith back in the Golden Age and refusing to abandon Casca (this time) is a way to make up for that mistake.

8. Like the Beast of Darkness says, Casca reminds him of “the wound Griffith left” because he wants to keep feeling the pain he caused him. Both because it helps simplify his conflicting and confusing feelings into rage, and because, harkening back to point 6, imho it’s a masochistic reminder that he meant enough to Griffith for him to be worth lashing out at.

I mean consider the context of some discussions of wounds in berserk. “I too want a wound… that I can say you gave me.”

Or Griffith tracing his shoulder where Guts’ sword failed to touch him, maybe:

Anyway regardless of how suggestively that statement can be taken in the greater context of Berserk and wounds, there’s definitely some truth to it because it’s what Miura gave as the reason he didn’t kill Casca:

“The only point I was cautious about was not to completely stop the
story’s flow with the Eclipse. I kept Casca alive precisely for that
reason. That’s because even if she died, and if the series continued for
a long time, Guts’ reason to seek revenge would become a thing of the
past and if Guts formed new relationships with people, his motivation
would weaken. It’s a cold, calculating move and it might feel
unpleasant, but it’s exactly because Guts has Casca at his side that he
can never forget about the Eclipse.”

9. He’s still planning to return his focus to Griffith eventually. He hasn’t so much given up his revenge quest as put it on hold. It’s probably easier to say “not now” to himself than to say “never.”

10. Narrative convenience keeps him on the straight and narrow. eg:

cue Guts literally passing right out ten seconds later. it’s pretty easy to decide to get on a boat instead of get revenge when you can barely stand and going for revenge would be literal suicide. and even then Guts needed Serpico to step in and tell him not to be a dumbass.

Soooo yeah I think that about covers the various reasons Guts has for putting aside his revenge quest to take Casca to Elfhelm, which add up to smthn a lot more complicated than choosing Casca over revenge. I contemplated adding another section that’s like… a giant list of Guts utterly failing to prioritize Casca or demonstrate that she’s “more precious than Griffith” lol, but I might just do that in a separate post next time I’m feeling salty.

@freewilllife I’m c/ping this bc that post is really long to reblog imo lol

I half-wonder if this is an issue with Miura writing some of Berserk
while depressed lol, considering how utterly cynical the Conviction arc
is.

I think this is the case.Depending on the real life issues of the author…and yes I think it somehow is fitting…

Because
sometimes a relationship even an unequal one is better than being
alone, however it can turn out worse if the dependent state doesn´t
develop…

Somehow I think ( I know what a thought…most
Griffith/Guts fans do know that I suppose) that Griffith and Guts had a
dependency on each other that could have turned into a nice
relationship, but fate and their own insufficient communication skills
prevented it.

Guts wished to be the equal of Griffith…he
wished to acquire it…The way he chose was…It would have not been bad if
he had somehow come to another realisation than committing murder is his
“dream” ( That is just my priority maybe?).

Casca on the other
hand wished to maintain an unequal relationship at all cost…she wished
to be near Griffith, later Guts. It is depicted as if Casca only wished
to be Griffith´s sword since she wished to stay in his shadow…Whereas
Guts wished to obtain an own dream in order to be his equal…

Yeah there’s something to be said for Guts and Casca’s (and Charlotte’s) respective reactions to hearing Griffith’s dream speech. Even if it was a stupid speech and Guts’ decision was misguided, he’s still the only one who was like, well I’d better go out and achieve something so I can be his bff.

And it’s also very telling that Guts invited Casca along on his dream adventure – it shows that Guts is not thinking of her as an equal, he’s thinking of her as support for him, the way she was support for Griffith, rather than someone who could achieve her own dream and become an equal w/ him and Griffith.

(This probably says more about how Miura sees romantic (het) relationships as opposed to All-Important Bonds Between Men, but yk.)

Like imo the whole notion of dreams + equals is stupid as fuck, but it’s what Guts is basing his life around at that point and Casca just doesn’t figure in as a potential equal as far as he’s concerned.

Also of course I completely agree that Guts and Griffith’s relationship could’ve been exactly what they both needed, and could’ve been (and was for a time) a hugely positive influence on both of them, but fate and their own issues interfered and ruined it. Like I don’t think they were ever not equals – regardless of their stupid arbitrary standards, their feelings for each other made them equals, and I s2g the water fight is symbolic of that fact.

Like, not literally but symbolically, Griffith won the first fight, Guts won the second – the waterfight. So when Guts won a third – the second duel – it fucked up the balance and resulted in Griffith losing everything, and demonstrated that Guts was leaving based on a false premise.

(also lmao yeah the dream Guts landed on is kind of hilarious in how terrible it is. i love that you describe it as ‘committing murder’ bc it’s not exactly far off)

every time i re-read a bit of the conviction arc i want to say something about its depiction of relationships, whether that gels with the rest of the story, etc, but it’s always so hugely daunting

in part because it seems to contradict everything i get out of the golden age lmao

like according to conviction arc themes, the fatal flaw in griffith and guts’ relationship was that it was too intense and they needed each other too much

like, according to the conviction arc

the problem here isn’t that Guts failed to understand his own importance to Griffith and therefore left, the problem was that he was important to Griffith at all. Griffith should have been able to rely on himself and no one else.

look at this:

transcription bc the writing is hard to read:

But those threatened by the dark… can by no means ever let go of a torch. All they can do is stare in blank surprise at their illuminated, disgustingly cruel selves… and continue to suffer it… And to protect their stunted self-esteem they depend on it… all the while hating it. Cravenly… deceitfully…

(They’re even both on the giant hands, and Luca and Guts both let go self-sacrificially. It’s a very direct parallel.)

Of course, this statement is extremely cynical and delivered by an antagonist. But the narrative seems to fully support it regardless:

According to the Conviction arc, Griffith was right when he said this:

And Guts was right to leave. Guts and Griffith’s problem was that they were never equals, and they admired and resented and clung to each other in turn.

I absolutely cannot reconcile the themes of the Conviction arc with the Golden Age, because that is clearly not the point of the Golden Age.

Oh but bthump, you might say, the point is that Guts and Griffith were too obsessed wtih each other while not being equals and that was a bad thing, while Guts and Casca have an equal relationship and therefore they are an example of a good relationship, just like Nina and her shitty boyfriend up there.

Well, sorry to say, the Conviction arc is also gtsca negative, here’s Casca stating the theme right before saying it also applies to her:

Stop relying on other people, Casca.

There’s also “a person hurts someone just because they’re strong” as a prelude to Guts assaulting Casca. Like, they’re not a happy healthy equal relationship either lol, either pre or post Eclipse.

Of course, it’s worth noting that the Conviction arc is very Black Swordsman-y, and therefore its “most relationships are bad, actually” message may not be wholly sincere, but may be more a reflection of Guts’ current stupidity.

Will you? Because to me it looks like you got caught up in trying to kill incorporeal images of the Godhand and trying to find Griffith and completely forgot about her, only remembering the whole “save Casca” plan once you realized you couldn’t kill the images you were swinging at.

Yeah Guts, at a time like this you’re.

Someone else’s strength, Isidro’s, saved her.

And of course, Guts’ “I can do everything myself” stupidity continues until he sexually assaults Casca and finally realizes maybe he needs some people to rely on. It’s all bookended by the Beast of Darkness, and it’s later contradicted by Guts’ rpg group. I mean, he gains them because they’re all fucking clinging to him and considering him better than them lol. Farnese calls him her saint, Isidro idol worships him, there are parallels drawn between Guts and the group and Griffith and his followers a lot.

But again, by Conviction arc logic, the rpg group is bad. Following Guts is bad. But that’s obviously not the case.

But like, man, the Conviction arc just hammers in this shit about unequal relationships and clinging to others, resenting the torches in the darkness, etc etc etc, over and over and over. Even the religious stuff feels like a statement on unequal relationships – people clinging to a God like Nina clung to Luca like Casca clings to Griffith then Guts, like Griffith and Guts clung to each other. Like it’s hard to dismiss it all as bullshit. But it’s so fucking awful lol, I absolutely loathe it.

And it is directly contradicted by stuff like the fact that this is portrayed as good:

I half-wonder if this is an issue with Miura writing some of Berserk while depressed lol, considering how utterly cynical the Conviction arc is. Or maybe this is all going to come back front and centre and we’ll find out the rpg group is also fucked up and about to tear itself apart. I mean if a person hates someone because they’re weak and hurts someone because they’re strong, everyone in the rpg group should be full of resentment towards Guts. Come to think of it, the Hawks should’ve all hated Griffith. Falconia should hate Griffith. It should be another Tower of Conviction, by this logic, full of resentful baby-eating heretics lmao.

OR – is that a statement on the world Griffith overturns? Silat saying tyranny will always exist, that’s the reason of man, and Jarif responding with, yeah well Griffith’s world lies outside of your idea of reason. Like, Egg’s wish, and therefore humanity’s collective wish, was for an ideal world where that shit he says about relationships doesn’t apply, right?

I just don’t fucking know what the point is man. Some relationships are good, some relationships are bad, and there’s no rhyme or reason to which we’re saying are good and which we’re saying are bad, or why.

I will tell you one thing tho: according to Conviction arc logic, Guts and Griffith are each others’ gods. So that’s fun.

Also… because Guts and Griffith’s power dynamics shift over the course of the Golden Age, my conclusion that their issue isn’t that they’re unequal but that they’re idiots who don’t recognize until it’s too late that their feelings for each other make them equals, isn’t necessarily contradicted by any of this.

This is a pretty strong conclusive statement to be casually contradicted by a parallel to Nina and Luca an arc later.

Like Nina and Luca may be a bad match because Nina cares more for Luca than vice versa – Luca tends to see her as a responsibility lol. But that’s clearly not the case with Guts and Griffith.

But did Miura think about that, one wonders, because the parallels are very direct. Idk idk idk. Fuck authorial intent, whatever the hell Miura was going for, my reading still makes the most sense, contains the fewest contradictions, and is the least fucked up message.

I remember reading Berserk for the first time and being totally unimpressed with Guts n Casca’s relationship. Then I really entered the fandom and it turns out a lot of people really like them together??? I thought “Did you guys read the same manga as me?” Lmao. I’m never gonna forgive Miura for forcing that shit into the story

I don’t think you’re the same person but I’m combining these asks into one post because it’s basically the same subject and sentiment lol

honestly yeah the relationship really just brings out the worst in both characters imo (rampant misogyny and general laddish unlikeability in Guts; dependency, victimization, and narrative passivity in Casca), and it seems so, so unnecessary to me.

Like they are the epitome of pasted on romance. The relationship that drives the narrative, provides the most tension and intrigue and character development is Guts and Griffith’s. Guts and Casca’s romance drives nothing, develops nothing, and the intrigue and tension comes from… how Griffith figures into it (eg as the person they’re both rebounding from, as the object of their early rivalry, as the person Guts is trying to get over post-Eclipse by focusing on Casca. like literally every single one of their scenes where they grow closer is a conversation about Griffith lol).

Plus Guts rescuing her and then escorting her to Elfhelm is not dependent on his romantic relationship with her at all – he’d do the same for any of his former comrades. She could be replaced with Gaston and absolutely zero things would change except Guts probably wouldn’t’ve sexually assaulted him.

The romance brings nothing unique to the characters, it adds nothing, all it does is diminish everyone involved, extremely literally in the case of Miura adding it so he could write Casca out of half the story in the most grotesque way possible and give Guts motivation he absolutely didn’t need and which diminishes his actual personal trauma which is what should’ve been motivating him.

It’s so frustrating! I swear I could write another 4 part essay about all the ways Guts and Casca’s romance actively makes Berserk objectively (yes i’m saying objectively, idgaf some things are universally bad regardless of personal taste, like most things to do with the Eclipse) worse lmao

And the thought of an AU where Casca also survived the Eclipse without the bullshit and got her own plot-driving complementary storyline as an active character with a goal is so depressing because it could’ve been amazing.

The fact that ppl view gtsca as this epic love story truly baffles me. Nvmd that he’s treated her like shit, miura admittedly shoehorned it into the story to give guts more manpain. It has like 3 chapters of forced build-up (judeau lit had to push them together) and it’s implied that they’re both using e/o as an alternative to griffith. And indeed, as soon he reenters the picture, it starts to fall apart. And it lasted like, what, one week? But sure, they’re totally the loves of e/o’s lives lol

four days actually lol

but yeah, strong agree here. I do kind of wonder what Miura wanted to portray – like I definitely think it very much comes across in the story that he added their relationship entirely for the sake of fridging Casca to motivate Guts more (the fact that he admitted it is icing on the cake lol). But he also didn’t shove it in as a badly written last-minute true love story, he was very deliberate in showing that there were flaws there from the start, like Judeau pulling the strings, both rebounding from Griffith, both using sex as a distraction from their negative feelings, the jealousy during the rescue mission, Griffith still taking priority to Guts (and this holds true until after the Hill of Swords confrontation), Casca becoming Guts’ “sword,” their hookup helping enable Guts’ denial so he doesn’t realize he shouldn’t’ve left the Hawks until it’s too late, etc.

So idk bc to elicit the correct reaction from his readers during the Eclipse he had to make them invested in their relationship and Guts’ feelings for Casca, but he also doesn’t do a damn thing to make Guts feelings for Casca matter or affect his decisions or anything. So imo it ends up feeling awkwardly pasted on when we’re supposed to believe they have strong feelings for each other, and the rest of the time it feels deliberately portrayed as negative.

(Like I’ve pointed out before, but a good example of this is the way Guts decides he screwed up before and wants to stay with Griffith this time while talking with Judeau, before consulting with Casca. It would’ve been so easy to have him decide while talking to Casca, showing that what she chooses to do also affects his decision, but nope. Too bad for Casca if she really wanted to leave with Guts, Guts is sticking with Griffith now.)

cascaslament
replied to your post “Agree on Black Swordsman Guts, he’s my favorite too. Also speaking of…”

guts leaving casca doesn’t show that he isn’t loyal- it shows that he could not think and wanted to keep her out of pain and wanted to take matters into his own hands. he only had sex with that apostle so he could lure her out and kill her. i’m not even sure if it really counts as sex. you have to remember that guts’s intension wasn’t to leave casca to rot, but to keep her safe, even if it was the wrong thing to do. i’m not sure that you understand the importance of casca to guts…

just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I don’t understand. I’ve tackled this subject like, a lot, so I’m not going to fully repeat myself here, but suffice to say I’ve read Berserk multiple times and, whatever Miura’s intent is, absolutely nothing has convinced me, or even strongly suggested to me that Casca is all that important to Guts beyond being a symbol of his humanity he’s clinging to.

And I can think of so many examples of Guts treating her like garbage, up to and including sexual assault (twice! treated as a joke during the Golden Age, and treated seriously as drama later on), that it baffles me that other people find their relationship like, positive lol, let alone endearing or something that reflects well on Guts.

anyway here’s the scene where Guts ditches her:

Rickert: dude, I think you should stay with your girlfriend in this magic safe cave instead of hunting monsters for no reason.

Guts: mmmmm no, I’d rather hunt monsters.

He had at least a month at Godo’s to decide on his course of action, and he’s perfectly calm and controlled here. If her safety was his first concern, he’d stay with her instead of leaving her for two children and an old man to (fail entirely to) protect. To say he left her because he couldn’t think and he wanted her to be safe is an extremely forgiving interpretation which isn’t backed up by the text of the story.

He’s not even considering her a person in her own right at this point, with his casual “nah” when Rickert suggests like, saying goodbye lmao. She’s basically just a representation of the Hawks to him here. Like imo the kindest interpretation to Guts is that he’s deliberately avoiding her because she reminds him too much of everything he lost/threw away, and that’s still pretty fucked up.

On the off chance you’re interested in a more in-depth look at how I think Guts actually feels (and yeah I know that’s not particularly likely lol, but I like linking stuff) here are some other posts I’ve written on the topic:

https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/175552652716/ok-yk-what-if-half-of-the-gtsca-sex-scene-is

https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/177852466736/i-ship-guts-and-griffith-and-ive-always-thought

i ship guts and griffith, and i’ve always thought that Casca and guts do genuinely love each other but that they forced a romance between themselves. whats your opinion on their relationship? again i think they love each other but griffith is both of their first choices, didn’t the beast of darkness even say something like that?

I think that’s a reasonable way of reading their relationship.

The Beast of Darkness is definitely pretty overt about suggesting that Griffith is Guts’ first choice, calling him his “true light” while Casca gets grouped in with the RPG group as “warm lights,” as well as suggesting that Griffith is more “precious” to him than Casca.

And ofc I definitely agree that Griffith is Guts’ number one choice. Casca I’m less sure about, I think she was more torn between them and maybe ended up prioritizing Guts by the end, when she told him to leave to pursue his dream. But that’s p ambiguous.

My own opinion on Guts and Casca’s feelings for each other is that they’re… complicated lol, but imo genuine romantic love doesn’t really enter into it. I don’t enjoy their relationship so I’m biased ofc, but I do think Miura was like, conscientious about portraying their relationship as a more low-key realistic hookup between friends, rather than burgeoning true love, and motivated by a number of complex feelings and factors other than straightforward romance.

Like both rebounding from Griffith, “licking wounds” and comforting each other after experiencing some extreme self-destructive feelings, genuinely liking each other as friends by now, the fact that Guts saved Casca and Casca feels like she owes him the same way she wanted to be Griffith’s sword after he saved her (Casca pointing out Guts’ scars from the 100 man fight when he saved her then, and asking for a wound in return), Judeau’s heavy-handed manipulations pushing them together, Guts inviting Casca along for sex while prioritizing his dream (”I don’t know whether you’ll get in the way of what I want to do or the opposite”), Guts letting Casca comfort him the way Griffith didn’t, etc.

Additionally I think that their hookup serves as a distraction for Guts, a way to continue repressing the realization that he fucked up when he left for as long as possible because accepting that he ruined everything because he was wrong about Griffith’s feelings is… not easy lol, and this is shown in how he invites her along and still intends to leave the Hawks again, rather than rethinking things based on new information and deciding to stay this time. It takes him like four days to finally accept that he shouldn’t’ve left.

And post-Eclipse I think Guts sticks with Casca in part because of what the Beast of Darkness suggests, that she’s a reminder of the pain Griffith caused, and in part because he wants to try to move on from Griffith now that NGriff has soundly rejected him, and in part because he’s longing for a piece of his happy past and that’s what Casca represents, and in part to atone for abandoning Griffith the first time, and in part because she’s his friend and comrade and he wants to help her.

So like, basically tl;dr I think they care about each other, but the romance aspect did end up being forced and I would’ve liked their relationship a lot more if they’d stayed platonic friends, and it probably would’ve been better for them too.

Also I headcanon them both as gay and repressed lol, and I think the story makes that fairly easy to do, which is nice.

i linked a few related posts under the cut if you happen to be interested

this is a pretty thorough post on my interpretation of guts and casca’s relationship, the op is more of a meta take on how Miura doesn’t portray their hookup entirely positively, and the response is p similar to my answer here but with illustrative pictures lol

this is an illustration of guts maintaining denial thru sex with casca

and this is a really long look at how casca figures into guts and griffith’s relationship with lots of exploration of repression and sublimated feelings lol

After looking into some of your meta, what’s your personal opinion on Judeau and his actions affecting the development of Guts’, Griffith’s, and Casca’s relationship?

Judeau’s clear agenda in the back half of the Golden Age is hilarious to me because it’s like Miura couldn’t get Guts and Casca to fuck naturally, so he had to make it a side character’s sole mission in life to arrange their hook up.

But actually to be less cynical, I think it works very well with the overall tone and thematic takeaway from the Golden Age. Why was Judeau meddling? Well, it’s strongly suggested that it’s because he was in love with Casca himself, but didn’t consider himself worthy of her. He thought Guts would be better for her, and that Casca would be better off traveling with Guts than leading the remnants of the Hawks, so he shoved Guts at her until they boned.

And look how that turned out.

Moral of the Golden Age: tell people how you feel instead of just assuming you’re not good enough for them.

And like, something I really love about Judeau’s character is that he seems to fill that character trope of friend who gives good advice and lays out some of the story’s themes and nudges the protagonist in the right direction for the plot. But like everyone else in Berserk he’s more layered than that – he has his own reasons for saying the things he does and directing Guts the way he does, and those reasons are kind of based in low self esteem. He’s another factor that helps bring everyone to the Eclipse.

Sometimes he does give good advice, but sometimes he gives genuinely bad advice, because he’s biased.

And I think there’s a potential parallel between Judeau trying to set Guts and Casca up, and Guts trying to set Casca and Griffith up before he leaves. Guts feels unworthy of Griffith because he doesn’t have a dream, but Casca does, so he shoves her at Griffith to get her to take his place as his sword, but yk with added romance because heteronormativity.

It’s not unbiased-dude-trying-to-be-a-good-bro-for-his-friends advice, Judeau’s own issues are a factor in him trying to get Guts and Casca together.

Judeau feels unworthy of Casca because idk he’s insecure about being a jack of all trades, master of none lol, so he considers Guts, who is the best at least next to Griffith, more worthy of Casca and tries to get them together.

And in his dying moments, he knows he fucked up. That he should’ve just said something.

And yk what, he may think Guts is more worthy of Casca because he’s the best at something, but Guts was up on top of a giant hand trying to save Griffith long after that stopped making sense as a course of action while Judeau was down here trying to survive with Casca, and I think we all know who Casca appreciated more in this moment.

There’s something to be said for just being there with someone instead of leaving them in the snow/trying to convince a dude to sling her over his shoulder and run lol. Same with how Judeau was with Casca throughout the year of hiding and trying to survive while Guts was fucking off on his eat pray love vacation.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we’re meant to see Judeau/Casca as a tragic missed connection and the better alternative to Guts and Casca getting together.

(On a personal note I don’t actually like the idea of Judeau/Casca both bc it’s het lol but also since it’s just, yk, dude pines, wants the girl but meddles in her life for her own good, Casca’s feelings towards Judeau aren’t explored at all, etc. But the way Miura portrayed Judeau’s regret and his presence vs Guts’ absence makes me think that the takeaway is that in the best version of events Judeau would’ve told Casca how he felt and they would’ve got together. And thematically that fits imo.)

Also while I’m on this topic, I want to take yet another opportunity to point this great moment out:

hmmmmmmmmmmm

Judeau then immediately segues the conversation to the whole “Casca’s life sucks right now, you need to save her from it, etc” bit.

But I fucking love this moment specifically because it’s telling us that not only is Judeau overtly meddling to get Casca and Guts to hook up, but Judeau believes that Guts knowing how Griffith really feels about him will impede his plans.

And I mean it’s true, he wants Guts to leave with Casca and when Guts realizes how hard he fucked up and how much Griffith desperately needs him and always did he wants to stay. But it’s just such a nice touch to tell us that Guts and Casca… only work in the absence of Griffith. Guts gets with Casca when he falsely believes Griffith looks down on him. Guts chooses to stay with Griffith when he’s convinced he was wrong about that.

(And post-Eclipse, Guts abandons Casca for his revenge campaign, and chooses to stay with her when NeoGriffith says unequivocally that he’s over him now lol.)

It adds to the sense that Guts and Casca are both rebounding from Griffith, and they only work together as long as they both want to distance themselves from him. When he’s back in their life they get weird and jealous immediately, and then they both independently choose not to leave the Hawks together (Guts telling Judeau he wants to stay, followed by Casca telling Guts she can’t leave with him) and Casca tries to break up with him lol.

i’ve said this before but still like, literally both g/c sex scenes began with the dude saying “hey here’s a great way to stop thinking about painful, painful reality” right after being devastated by their belief that they destroyed their relationship with the other dude, like they both seek out sexual connections in the face of losing their relationship with each other!

Like I don’t think anyone would deny that this is clearly what Griffith is doing.

But Guts does it too:

“The dead or broken” refers back to Casca’s “the almost broken dream of someone who might not even be alive” incidentally, so you don’t even need to make your own connections here, they’re delivered in a neat little bow. It’s about Griffith being in a dungeon right now because of Guts.

There’s a big empty space very clearly defined where Guts and Griffith should’ve fucked each other, and because they didn’t the Eclipse happened.

That’s the thesis statement of Berserk as far as I’m concerned.

Do you think that guts keeps casca around (post-eclipse) just because “she’s the wound griffith left” and he wants “to keep feeling the pain” griffith caused him, as the beast of darkness said, or is it also bc he cares about her?

I’m not gonna argue that Guts doesn’t care about her at all lol, but I do think the fact that she’s a reminder of the pain Griffith caused is a very important aspect, and is likely to come up again since Miura mentioned it as the reason he kept her alive (ie to keep Guts from moving on) in a 2017 interview.

I don’t think that’s the only reason Guts is sticking with Casca now, I think there are like, a bunch of other reasons as well. The fact that she’s a reminder of his past with the Hawks and he wants to bring her mind back to recover a piece of that idyllic past. The fact that he wants to try to move on from Griffith after Griffith pronounced himself free of him tbqh, and focusing on a new objective is a good way to attempt that. (And incidentally I think it’s purposeful that keeping her around as a reminder of the Eclipse and trying to move on thru taking her to Elfhelm are contradictory, but that doesn’t mean Guts can’t be motivated by both reasons.)

And also the fact that he does genuinely care about her. Like even if I don’t think he’s actually in love with her, and I don’t, Guts cares about his friends and comrades. He saved her even back when he hated her, when she fell off that cliff. His revenge campaign was damaging to himself in part because like… by abandoning Casca he kind of betrayed himself, because at his core he wants to help the people he cares about, he wants to be there for them. Abandoning her in a cave for 3 years is like, the exact opposite of our (chronologically) first image of him, when he was three and held his mother’s hand as she died.

So yk, another aspect is that at his best, Guts stands up and does the right thing for the people he considers friends and family, and at his worst, he fucks off and leaves them to fend for themselves. And Guts is trying to be more his best and less his worst.

Oh and ofc relatedly he’s trying to atone for leaving Griffith in the snow. He draws that parallel a lot when he decides to focus on Casca lol.

I’ll also link this post bc it basically says much the same thing but with pictoral evidence lol

eastern-lycanthrope:

bthump:

I think there’s a strong argument to be made that, rather than being
depicted as burgeoning true love ruined by the Eclipse for the
sake of extra tragedy, Guts and Casca getting together is depicted as a mistake from the start.

Keep reading

This is really cool and all but, if Guts didn’t love Casca in the true sense of the word, why did he travel half the world to rehabilitate her?

Well canonically there are a few alternative motives suggested:

That’s the darkest one. Incidentally it’s also the reason Miura gave for not killing Casca off – because Casca keeps Guts angry and prevents him from fully moving on – so it’s not just the Hound spinning his wheels, it’s a legit factor.

There’s also making up for past mistakes:

Longing for a piece of the good old days:

Which I suggest because almost every time Guts thinks of the old Casca it’s as a Hawk commander, rather than as a lover. Plus his insistence on “forcing” Casca’s sanity back despite warnings suggests to me it’s not really selfless on Guts’ part.

And honestly I think partially it’s because:

Prior to NGriff’s dismissal Guts still planned to go after him:

Erika suggests making the cave homier and staying with Casca, so Casca will be content and won’t run off again. Guts is like, yeah that’s true, and then:

Then he goes into his “the instant I saw him, I’d forgotten my urge to kill” internal monologue, raging at himself for his lack of desire to kill Griffith (”and that can’t be!”)

He’s still planning to go after him again, but then NGriff completely refuses to even give him the time of day, mysteriously saves Casca, and fucks off, and that’s when Guts decides to stick with Casca this time.

So imo it’s also partially because “I’d forgotten my urge to kill” + NGriff “deserting” him = losing his drive for revenge. Now he’s emotionally capable of trying to move on, so he’s seizing on that because revenge was a big self-destructive mess and he totally failed in his goal of either killing Femto or getting his attention, and Godo + Rickert etc all kept hammering it into his head that he’s better off taking care of the last remnant of the Hawks.

And bc Griffith’s apparently successfully moved on from him, so he wants to move on from Griffith and he’s focusing on Casca to do so.

I mean if you ship Guts and Casca and think love is Guts’ strongest motivator then go for it, it’s also one potential explanation, and maybe it’ll end up unambiguously confirmed as true love, but I honestly don’t get the impression that Guts is in love with her at any point myself. I think Guts’ actions make perfect sense even if romantic love isn’t a genuine factor, and some of his actions make very little sense if he’s truly in love with her (like leaving her in a cave for two years and then needing to debate with himself before he actually decides to take a time out from revenge and rescue her in the conviction arc.)

Like I think he’d make the same choice to go to Elfhelm if his relationship with her had remained platonic the whole time, or if it was Judeau who survived but lost his sanity, etc.

honestly before reading berserk i expected gtsca to be some star crossed lovers shit and griffith to be one dimensional gay villain with one-sided crush. like gtsca isnt even that good and griffith is really sympathic. this fandom is really straight and have no reading comprehension lol

ikr, it really surprised me how downplayed and non-romantic their relationship was in the manga considering how fandom talks about it. and ofc it’s not even close to subtle about the fact that griffith is guts’ #1 priority and vice versa throughout the Golden Age. I mean, that’s literally the whole point lol, Griffith’s conflict during the GA is Guts vs the dream, and Guts’ conflict post-Eclipse is Griffith vs his humanity.

like the direct source of tension of both of their narratives is in resisting the fact that the other is Their Most Important Thing In Life.

also tbh I think the anime is to blame for a lot of the fandom’s interpretation of g*tsca. It often emphasizes their relationship in a way the manga just didn’t lol. Like eg anime Guts’ ultra romantic “I never want to stop holding you” or w/e the line was complete with Touching Music vs manga Guts’ ‘come with me because I want to fuck more’ complete with Ominous Eclipse Foreshadowing.

ok yk what

if half of the g*tsca sex scene is meant to be a positive step towards guts getting over his trauma, and ignoring my personal feelings by all rights it absolutely should be, because the central point of berserk is that interpersonal relationships are positive ways to heal from trauma and guts having a flashback and then talking it through in front of Casca b4 having comfort sex seems like it fits right into that theme

so yeah if that is meant to be a positive emotionally healing experience, then i simply do not understand why it… changes literally nothing.

guts’ dream is a distraction, swinging his sword is his way of not thinking about his issues, and after this he goes right back to harping on about his dream and insisting he’s gonna keep fighting stronger and stronger enemies.

during the wyald fight he refuses to let casca help and refuses to run because he feels like he’s got a score to settle with monsters as a concept, and therefore he has to beat wyald all by himself (”by my own sword”), which is also an indication that he’s still mired in his issues, obsessed with his dream, lashing out to assuage his personal pain.

and he finally, finally chooses to let go of his dream for someone else’s sake when it’s Griffith who needs him, not Casca.

having sex with Casca after the flashback should be Guts’ turning point. When Casca asks him to stay his answer should be yes, or at least be ambiguous enough to show that he’s seriously considering it. that he’s beginning to recognize that relationships > dreams and the Hawks are his family. He suggests that Casca come along, but makes it very clear that his dream gets first priority when he does. “Whether bein’ with you will get in the way of what I want to do… or the opposite… I can’t tell now.”

rather than considering staying when Casca asks, he immediately says he wants “to draw a line, keep things separate.” And ofc Griffith ends up being the turning point. Casca telling him Griffith destroyed himself because of him, thinking about Griffith’s emotional vulnerability during the rescue mission, finding Griffith after a year of torture and now dependant – these are all what lead to Guts wavering and wondering if leaving was a mistake. Not Casca yelling that he’s a selfish idiot who only cares about himself and dreams, but Casca yelling that Griffith ended up in a torture chamber because of him.

Miura even shows us Guts choosing to stay with Griffith before even consulting Casca.

Like he could’ve split the difference, had Casca tell Guts she can’t leave with him because she needs to take care of Griffith and have Guts make up his mind then, showing that his relationships with Casca and Griffith are at least equal in importance, but nope. Guts wants to stay with Griffith regardless of what Casca decides. It’s before they talk again that he reaches his conclusion that he fucked up and the Hawks were his home all along:

their relationship could not be more of an afterthought to Miura here. it’s so painfully clear that he added it just to destroy her character and motivate Guts, because where there should be a shitload of thematic resonance and character development in their relationship, there’s none. it’s absolutely unnecessary, it affects nothing at all except the eclipse rape, to such an extent that it’s awkward, because it would’ve been so easy and straightforward to tie it into existing themes and make their relationship matter, and Miura just didn’t bother.

Like if I shipped them I’d be mad lol, I’d feel ripped off. Instead I’m just weirded out by how badly written this one subplot is in the midst of the otherwise pretty outstanding Golden Age.

um guts u sure you’re not projecting a little

like casca’s not the only one who got all self destructive while thinking about griffith my dude

anyway i don’t think we’re meant to take guts’ statement up there without a hefty grain of salt considering guts immediately proceeds to have a flashback and talking about his dead father figure makes him feel better, and also considering that in a few days guts embraces the exact opposite point of view when he decides to stay and take care of griffith despite judeau basically repeating this sentiment to him

and also it’s callous as shit and pretty much tells us that guts is in full denial mode here while fucking casca

in fact it’s kind of similar to

oh holy shit and look at this, which i hadn’t even noticed til rn:

like we all accept and understand that Griffith is projecting when he tells Charlotte to ignore the sad shit, but SO IS GUTS!

and ACTUALLY yeah i’ll do this whole thing right now: Griffith fucking Charlotte and Guts fucking Casca are both attempts to deny their feelings for each other after being made painfully aware of those feelings

Griffith being left in the snow by Guts, and Guts learning about Griffith’s consequent crashing and burning – and specifically being stabbed by Casca while she screams that he broke Griffith

Both deny their feelings in like, a self harming manner. Sex with Charlotte is itself an act of self-destruction, while Guts just lets himself be stabbed first while denying any guilt in a disturbingly detached way

And additionally both these sexual encounters revolve around their respective dreams. Charlotte is a clear representation of Griffith’s dream and fucking her is his way of attaining it, just very badly timed due to being completely emotionally fucked up.

And Guts’ brief relationship with Casca represents his dream to an extent as we see when he compares her to his sword in his inner monologue after sex, when she’s the one he directs his whole promrose hall-y dream monologue to, when he invites her along with the caveat that she doesn’t get in the way of his dream, and when she tells him to leave to pursue his dream at the worst possible moment.

Griffith couldn’t manage to deny his feelings for very long, breaking down after Charlotte falls asleep, while Guts manages to hold out for a few days, and I’d say finally fully stops denying his feelings when he conclusively realizes he shouldn’t’ve left. “Why do I always see these things after they’re done and gone?”

basically i think guts and
griffith have parallel arcs wrt coming to terms with their particular
relationship and realizing they both value that relationship more than
their respective dreams, and both those arcs involve trying to use het
sex as a distraction before facing the music.

i know i’ve talked about this before lol but i s2g every time i remember this moment i’m even more taken aback by how fucking… jaw-droppingly suggestive it is

judeau, the dude whose sole goal in the latter half of the golden age is getting guts and casca together, telling rickert to shut up about how much griffith loves guts right before he overtly shoves guts at casca, starting on the very next page when judeau changes the subject to her leadership

like there is absolutely no reason for that panel to be there; rickert could’ve stopped talking of his own volition, guts could’ve had his moment, and the subject could’ve naturally changed to casca. you could remove it and change nothing else and everyone still makes sense in this scene, the dialogue still works, etc etc.

what it tells us is that judeau is being manipulative here, that he has an agenda in hooking guts and casca up (not that that’s subtle), and, the actual hugely interesting part, it means judeau has to avoid conversation about griffith’s feelings so guts and casca will get together – ie
guts and casca can only connect in the absence of griffith.

this is followed through of course when they both brood over him afterwards, and in how their sex scene is framed as a rebound for both of them through parallels to significant moments they each had with griffith, and in how their relationship such as it it starts to fall apart when they rescue griffith and eventually come to accept that he needs to be taken care of, and in how post-eclipse guts abandons her to pursue femto/griffith for 2-3 years, and in how he’s able to stick with casca after ngriff “deserts” him, and how he’s “come this far by letting go of his obsession with him,” etc etc

and mb even more interestingly, it also means that they can only connect when guts falsely believes griffith doesn’t feel strong irrational life-destroying feelings for him. hence judeau telling rickert to shut up while rickert is telling guts a game-changing truth. guts knowing how griffith feels about him is incompatible with his relationship with casca.

hence guts denying any feelings of guilt and regret when casca stabs him and putting it out of his mind when they fuck, until those feelings start creeping back during the rescue mission

AND hence guts moping and walking away with casca in tow when neogriffith flies off on zodd after telling guts he’s “free” from his feelings for him – only finally choosing to stay with her instead of pursuing revenge after ngriff deserts him.

so once again it comes back to this question:

what happens if guts finds out neogriffith’s heart isn’t frozen after all?

guts and griffith’s hetero relationships during the golden age are both symbols of their dreams, and exist in opposition to their relationship with each other

charlotte as a symbol of griffith’s dream is painfully obvious, but lemme outline casca as a symbol of guts’ quick:

guts’ dream is to become griffith’s equal and winning casca’s affection is framed as a step on that path, since casca loved and admired griffith
casca metaphorically becomes guts’ sword after they sleep together, now supporting his dream instead of griffith’s
guts tells casca all about his dream, repeating a lot of what griffith said to charlotte at promrose hall
guts invites casca along on his dream journey as long as she doesn’t get in the way of what he wants to do
casca is the one who tells guts to leave to pursue his dream instead of staying with griffith
and overhearing that completely fucks griffith up much the same way overhearing griffith talking to charlotte about his dream fucked guts up

the question is does this change after the eclipse? and i think it does – casca without her character represents a responsibility distracting guts from his dream (plus she’s the last “feeble flame” of that campfire he abandoned when he left to pursue a dream, so she represents the Hawks) whereas now neogriffith represents his dream.

however – consistently sex with casca has still been connected to his dream. when the beast of darkness taunts him, and when he assaults her, it’s “to get closer and closer to Griffith.”

i don’t have a conclusion to this or a point rly, i’m just thinking outloud

well i guess my point is “the golden age can be interpreted as a cautionary tale about heterosexuality and that’s why it’s the best arc” lol

bthump:

parallels

i can’t believe i’ve written multiple long posts about casca and guts trying to replace griffith with each other and i never noticed that visual parallel when they each save her til now

like i’ve been v vocally back and forth on whether casca becoming guts “sword” is intentionally negative or meant to be seen as a positive symbol of moving on from griffith, and noticing that last panel just put me way more firmly on the “negative” side lol

madchen
replied to your post “robbffs
replied to your post “It sucks that Casca is reduced to…”

someone keep men away from casca
like i know hes a gruff guy but this
isnt sweet or romantic its weird and their whole relationship was
pathetic

mood

but honestly tho guts isn’t even a gruff asshole in general (during the golden age b4 he went black swordsman), just mainly with casca.

like not to be so obviously on my gay shit but his interactions with griffith are always respectful, tender, protective, thoughtful, etc. I think he calls him an idiot twice, once while telling him to save his own life, once to diffuse tension in an attempt to reassure him. whereas even after he and casca bond he still belittles and insults her (remember when he went on a misogynist tirade about how women suck to ~inspire her~ to keep going on their trek back to the hawks and we were supposed to think it was sweet lmfao) and treats her as an accessory.

like to compare:

he finds griffith after being tortured for a year, weak, helpless, not at all what he was expecting, no longer the strong independant man guts respected, and he cries over him and cradles him and then goes on a rampage to rescue him. he deliberately takes pains to treat him the same as he used to, talks with him like nothing’s changed, and decides to forgo his “dream” to stay and take care of him.

he finds casca after she was traumatized into insanity, helpless, not at all the person he was expecting, no longer the strong independent woman guts respected, and he yells at her to snap out of it, forcefully grabs her twice after she flinched from his first attempt to touch her until she literally bites him to get away, terrifies her, then leaves her in a cave for two years.

(and this is a dude who has been raped and couldn’t stand to be touched for years afterwards, you’d think he’d have a bit of empathy, and yet)

save casca from men 2k18

robbffs
replied to your post “It sucks that Casca is reduced to support for other people’s dreams at…”

When guts invites casca to go with him he doesnt have a dream yet at that point, he was just chillin at godo’s the whole year training, when he invites casca to go with him, he invites her to the journey of searching a purpose to live. They could search for that dream… together.. at least that’s what i think

yk that does sound pretty nice and a lot more inspiring and romantic, but guts invites casca after a long monologue explaining that he found his dream – fighting stronger and stronger enemies and becoming the best.

and moreover, this is how he invites her (after, i want to add, grabbing her tit while she’s yelling at him, but I don’t want to post an image of that bc it’s awful):

you should come with me as long as you don’t get in the way of what i want to do, because i want to have more sex.

It sucks that Casca is reduced to support for other people’s dreams at the same time Guts is absolutely determined to achieve a dream so he can be Griffith’s equal.

Like Guts inviting her along. It kind of randomly occurred to me that he would never have in a million years invited Griffith along on the road to his dream lol, because that would’ve defeated the entire purpose. Guts adopted Griffith’s view of equality as having an obsessive dream. Guts hugely respects Griffith’s dream and would never try to sway him or stand in his way. Guts wants to be like Griffith in that way and feel as though he has something as respectable to shoot for himself.

Casca? Guts never even begins to conceive of her as a potential equal.

Casca tries to kill herself because the strain of supporting the dream of someone who doesn’t love her and might not even be alive is too much, and instead of say, encouraging her to find a dream and live for herself, since it’s working so great for him and at this point Guts genuinely believes that having your own dream is the pinnacle of existence, Guts encourages her to come along on his journey and support his dream instead.

And while Berserk is overall kind of like, dream-negative lol, bc the whole achieving a dream to be Griffith’s equal thing was misguided from the start, Guts’ priorities are still all about Griffith – leaving to be his equal, or realizing that it was misguided and choosing to stay, both for Griffith.

And I mean, I like that Berserk blatantly devalues het romance compared to homoerotic + thematically resonant relationships between dudes, obviously lol, but it pisses me off that Casca’s character gets fucked over and over and over again because of it, because her character revolves around that devalued romance.

Like, basically the concept of pursuing a dream to feel like your bff’s equal is depicted as negative, but Guts inviting Casca along on his dream journey is never questioned by the narrative – it’s just assumed that Casca, as the romantic object of affection, defaults to playing support while the men are obsessed with the idea of equality and power dynamics. I’d like to believe this is also intentionally shown to be negative, but like, I don’t really think it is, I don’t think Miura really questioned this.

soft breeze, check. leaves, check. casca gets a starry/campfire-y background while griffith gets the intense bedroom eyes and general beautification, which i feel is a fair trade.

casca gets this romanticized shot right before treating guts’ wounds; griffith gets this romanticized shot right after not having an excuse for risking his life for guts.

anyway lol this is a prime example of casca getting some of the romance cues griffith used to get once a) guts decides griffith is unreachable at the moment and b) miura decided the eclipse needed more ~drama~

What I personally don t understand is that Casca was the reason for Guts to “hate” Griffith, so she should be an important irreplaceable person to him. On the other hand he abandoned her for 3 years and sexually assaulted her….How do this things fit together?

hahahaha… ha

true answer: miura is a misogynist hack who doesn’t really gaf about casca, and needed to get rid of her for a while because he hadn’t invented her yet while writing the black swordsman arc, and is less than concerned about whether guts even comes across as someone who genuinely cares for her.

meta answer:

whyever Miura decided to go that route, Guts’ actions after the Eclipse seem like a pretty strong indication that he wasn’t as angry on behalf of Casca as he was about Griffith transforming into a monster and destroying everything he values. Casca became a symbol of everything he lost – the good old days with the Hawks and Griffith – rather than seeing her as a person in her own right.

And to take that a step further, remember, Guts’ pre-Eclipse revelation was that he broke Griffith’s heart when he left, and therefore he already had what he tried attaining by leaving. The Eclipse wipes that away. Whatever Griffith has become does not (apparently) love or value Guts, and is not Guts’ equal or friend.

and this fucks Guts up

Femto raping Casca was proof that he has fundamentally changed into a monster who looks down on Guts, and Guts does drastic things when someone he loves looks down on him, thanks to his giant collection of daddy issues. Like leaving the woman he supposedly cares for in a cave and going on a self-destructive monster hunting spree.

madchen
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post “I don’t think that was the real guts…”

oh im just banking on the ominous ruse awakening i think were in for no matter the context. but the romanticization was just weirdddd no matter what like i know its been a while but casca never really felt that way about guts pre eclipse either like. what.

to me it felt like either fanservice for the sole sake of subverting expectations, or miura buying into everything g*tsca shippers think without re-reading his own story first

and i’m definitely fearing it’s the latter what with the indication that she’s been wanting to see(/meet whatever the line is) guts this whole time while stuck in a dream, the teary look when his name is mentioned, the expectation of romance and casca immediately going along with it, etc.

like who is this and what have you done with casca

sure miura feminized her a lot when she started crushing on guts in the golden age but it was never this bad, and there has never been a true love vibe between them

so like yeah even if there is a twist it’s hard to explain away the characterization here

i mean i guess it’s always been the same question:

is this the prelude to a happy or tragic narrative shake up?

it’s just that now, thanks to how heavily romanticized that chapter was before the last couple pages, there’s imo v little doubt that happy = casca is soothed (whether it’s after a chapter or a volume) and romance ensues

and tragic = casca fucks shit up, romance does not ensue

if the former, the narrative is shaken up by guts’ party coming to a stand still and guts experiencing contentment and needing some outside motivation to continue doing anything relevant. maybe neogriff showing up, elfhelm in danger, something like that.

if the latter, the narrative is shaken up by casca taking the playing board and throwing it across the room, which, based on earlier beast-y foreshadowing, will likely lead to guts losing control of the beast of darkness, etc, whatever. Bad shit happens.

BUT there’s also another way of looking at it:

is berserk the story of two dudes who keep trying and failing to stop being obsessed with each other until some kind of climactic catharsis happens?

or is berserk the story of two dudes who were obsessed with each other, one of whom is ironically still obsessed despite going to extreme lengths to try to cut out his feelings, and the other of whom successfully lets go of his obsession and moves on?

(or, put another way, the story of one dude overcoming his obsession with another dude through the power of heterosexual love, while the other dude’s gay love is both what turned him evil and his only weakness.

And I swear to god if I
have to power thru guts’ hetero romance for the sake of griffith’s
doomed evil gay love i can’t think of something emphatic enough to
describe how i’ll feel.)

Ultimately the question comes down to: is Guts’ focus going to return to Griffith, whether that’s through backsliding into revenge again or through re-examining his complex feelings and actually dealing with them instead of running away from them through the fix Casca sidequest?

or will Guts successfully overcome his obsession with Griffith, likely by saving Casca from herself through the power of love or w/e the way he failed to save Griffith before the Eclipse, leaving NGriff to drive the narrative and setting the stage for the final climax?

And if Casca fucks shit up and it turns out the fix Casca sidequest was kind of a terrible idea all along that leads to tragedy and darkness, the answer is the former. If Casca is talked down and love and companionship save the day, the answer is the latter.

So basically whatever happens is going to make or break Berserk for me lol. No pressure.

355 spoilers

fair warning this is v rambly and stream of consciousness, and largely negative tho not entirely

(from this summary and these scans)

hoooooooooooooooooooooooo boy

all this time and i’m still in hope for the best, prepare for the worst mode, agh this is so frustrating

(lol @ reusing a bunch of images from casca’s life we’ve already seen
in our journey thru her mind. also my god i hate the art so much rn
lol. casca’s face deserves better.)

and idk how to feel about
downplaying the fetus/moonlight boy now lol, with way more memories
alotted to guts, since apparently “there’s someone i want to meet” is
repeated towards the end here, and the one saving grace of that fetus
was the hope that casca wanted to meet it, instead of guts (or griffith
for that matter).

also danann calling guts to show up psychically which then proceeds to trigger casca seems weird and fishy to me? but idk maybe it reads as less weird in context, plus i don’t trust elfhelm so.

and i’m extremely wary about guts triggering her because he reminds her of the eclipse, rather than because he assaulted her himself. those dreamy half-remembered memories sure are convenient

on the other hand they’re also convenient for this delayed reaction happening just in time for guts’ arrival. meaning there’s a reason guts had to show up first before casca remembered the eclipse.

this chapter seems to be playing up g*tsca for the sake of sweeping the rug out from under the readers at the end when casca sees him and shit starts going down, but is that leading to actual Shit Going Down or is that leading to, idk, farnese jumping in and calming her down before nobly stepping aside so they can have a tearful reunion, or guts like, saving the day by Being There For Her For Once??

i s2g miura knows exactly what the best case and worse case scenarios are (tho he probably thinks they’re reversed) and he’s taunting me personally. like i’m sorry but ivalera joking that schierke woke up the “final boss”? just plain and simple teasing about schierke’s crush on guts or also ominous foreshadowing? casca’s last clear memory is rescuing griffith, which explains why tortured griffith is one of the final images, but why make that her last clear memory, why give that a full page at the end of the chapter right before the picture of the tree that looks visually similar to the darkness in her heart unless perhaps… a parallel?

But even if that’s the case is Casca going to use the behelit in Guts’ pouch or is Guts going to get another chance to Not Fuck It Up This Time?

I’m feeling like the odds are getting higher that after a moment of emotional peril Guts comforts her, promises to stay with her, and they live happily ever after until NeoGriffith arrives to fuck shit up versus shit actually going down and Casca graduating into a secondary antagonist role. And the odds of anything in between happening, like eg Casca rejecting Guts romantically and healing while becoming close friends with Farnese, are feeling extremely slim after this. Like, imo we’re in for either g*tsca or the “tragic” opposite of g*tsca after how it’s been played up here, not “let’s just be friends.”

Also there’s a strong chance I’m just in the denial stage rn. But like I’ve been salivating over the idea of all three Golden Age protags being enemies with their own clashing goals by the end of the series for a while now and as long as that’s still a possibility I’m going to continue to keep hope alive.

dendromancer
replied to your post “i will never be over how damn suggestive it is that judeau, the…”

still wondering what’s judeau’s agenda tbh. like did he want guts to take casca away for her to be safe? this is completely true tho and one of the reasons why i dislike judeau is that he’s a gtsca shipper lol

There’s that hint before he dies that he’s in love with her, and there’s an indication that he has like… self-worth issues lol, with his “if I couldn’t be the best I’d fly in the wake of someone who was” reasoning for following Griffith, and comparing himself to Guts negatively when they were running from monsters in the Eclipse. I think it’s basically Judeau thinking he isn’t good enough for Casca and Guts would be, and seeing how hard leading the Hawks while they’re being hunted has been on her and wanting her to get away from that responsibility.

Which tbh is another indication that gtsca was a misguided mistake from the start, since Judeau’s reasoning for arranging their hookup in the first place is stupid and based on low self esteem.

There’s also shades of a parallel between Judeau trying to get Guts and Casca together and Guts trying to get Casca and Griffith together, and I will personally argue forever that Guts throwing Casca at Griffith was because he didn’t feel like he was good enough for Griffith, rather than not good enough for Casca. I mean, that is his entire reasoning behind his decision making at that point in the story, after all.

Thinking he’ll be worthy of Casca when he’s Griffith’s equal is a random quick aside spurred on by Judeau right before he leaves and imo framed as though Casca being in love with him would be a sign that he’s made it as Griffith’s friend and equal, rather than wanting to be Griffith’s friend and equal to get with Casca lol, which has never been a factor.

friendly reminder to myself: licking wounds

guts and casca were never about healing each other or bettering each other, it’s in the damn chapter title

yk whose relationship is about mutual betterment and support? casca and farnese t b q h

also wrt relationships being generally healthier than other coping mechanisms in berserk, i think i might actually be selling miura short on that bc i think his take is more nuanced. look at serpico and farnese – they had an extremely intense relationship that wasn’t… bad necessarily, but it is absolutely a good thing that they’re both forging other relationships and not just relying on each other for comfort and protection from the world. so it’s not like all relationships are automatically great, and saying one of the major themes of berserk is that relationships are better than swords is still true, but maybe overly simplified

i still think the entire point of griffith and guts’ story though is that they could’ve been perfect for each other but they fucked it up

madchen
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post “i want to like, write a longish meta…”

i was thinking in line of “swinging his sword is an u healthy coping mechanism and way to avoid confronting his true feelings and casca being called one here incites comparison to that, casca weaponizing herself aside”

yeah i think ultimately that’s what it is for the most part. even now, his journey to take casca to elfhelm and get her healed has had ominious forboding overtones and imo guts like… metaphorically chaining the beast up in his subconscious is reminiscent of avoiding his issues thru this side quest, rather than confronting and dealing with them.

like his rpg group is a positive influence and this is undoubtedly better than his black swordsman rampage, but like… he’s still closed off from them, still doesn’t talk about his past or only v dispassionately when questioned by warlocks lol, etc. saving casca (and sleeping with her way back when) isn’t so much helping him deal with his problems as it’s helping him avoid them.

just like telling casca about gambino and donovan was a positive thing and a step in the right direction, but not an instant fix.

madchen
replied to your post “i want to like, write a longish meta about how guts’ “dream” ie his…”

oh i like this take i think its something ive and most readers have been aware of but no ones said it yet. brings another perspective to the “boy and an oversized sword” thing at the end of the gutsca chapter ouch.

ooh good point.

lol for a sec i was like, ‘uh oh wait does that mean miura was actually trying to say that a relationship with casca could replace guts’ emotional reliance on his sword?’ then i remembered the context of their relationship, the fact that casca becoming a sword for other people is a negative way of dealing with her own shit, the way guts emphatically does not start prioritizing casca over swinging his sword as we soon see when he shoos her away to fight wyald by himself, etc, and yeah.

the sword comparison overall feels more in line with saying a relationship casca is a form of emotional support, like swinging his sword, rather than better or more fulfilling than swinging his sword.

What possible scenarios that Casca’s back now? Her response and Guts revenge? What would happen?

lol i didn’t even predict the fetus showing up in casca’s mind, idk.

i think it’s still possible that casca’s going to wake up and lose it? what with the whole thing about shoving her metaphorical heart in her metaphorical chest while it’s covered in metaphorical thorns. actually i’m pretty stoked about that because farnese had her line about wanting to help casca overcome her darkness the same way casca helped her, so either we’re going to get some good farnese and casca interaction or that’s going to turn out to be a pipe dream and casca’s going to do something dark, and either way i’m super intrigued.

whatever guts does would depend on what casca does, i figure. i’m thinking they’re not getting back together immediately, if at all. worst case scenario that i could easily see happening is that miura teases a reconciliation for most of the rest of the manga and i have to live with that sword of damocles hanging over my head indefinitely.

so like, if casca is chill and recovers with farnese’s help, the plot has to get going somehow. maybe we end guts’ narrative on a high note, farnese helping casca recover and guts having achieved a goal without ruining everything for once, return to griffith’s in a flash forward, and he’s about to attack elfhelm logically because it’s the last remaining threat to him but actually because he’s bored and misses guts. honestly i would mostly hate this scenario for many reasons, like guts’ narrative being passive and boring and ngriff having a more unambiguously villainous role, like it would just feel shallow thematically imo, but i could maybe see it happening. I’ve been mostly bored by Guts’ narrative for like 200 chapters now so it wouldn’t be out of place lol.

or something else entirely could kick start the plot. maybe the flower king encourages guts to go fight griffith and we start getting into skellig moral ambiguity. maybe magic deus ex machina happens. maybe casca learns of a way she can use magic to siphon her stupid kid out of griffith and that’s the new objective lol. I was gonna suggest that maybe guts takes off on his own for revenge spurred on by some unforseen event, but the fact that he’s on an island makes that unlikely I guess.

god tho i still think that the neatest and most efficient way to kick start things into gear, fulfill a lot of foreshadowy promises, re-motivate guts into doing something, and shake things up in an interesting way is for casca to use the behelit. this is the hill i’m going to die on, at least until it becomes impossible. and yk what, casca’s last remaining and most important piece of herself, her heart, being the kid could be solid set up for sacrificing it. “Someone so close to you it’s almost like they’re a part of you,” and “bury your human heart,” after all.

I mean the way we revisited the Eclipse and Casca’s trauma, ie, we didn’t, kinda makes me less inclined to think Miura’s going to do anything with it/make it a real motivation, but, yk. thorns and whatnot. ~i want to believe~

i just want something dark and permanent with real consequences to happen, guts’ story has been progressively lighter and happier for over 200 chapters by now, come on.