i love griffith, guts and griffguts, but sometimes i feel super guilty about it bc of what griffith and guts have done to casca. i can’t even read fluffy stuff with them bc it just feels off mark given canon :/

I mean, that’s like… I was gonna say ‘fair’ but it’s not rly fair to you lol, you shouldn’t feel guilty about liking a good super interesting relationship just bc the mangaka thinks gratuitious rape and rape attempts are gr8 ways to illustrate evil. It makes sense to feel that way, but yk, it sucks.

So like I know it’s easy to say “idc bc it’s fiction” and that probably doesn’t help you because you already know it’s fiction. But I do think it’s good to bear in mind that the only person who has any say in what happens to Casca in the story is Miura, so you shouldn’t feel guilty for enjoying some elements of his story just because he likes to go full grimdark at other times.

Also like, while I personally am fine with just saying “it’s fiction so idgaf, I’ll take what I like and dismiss what I don’t,” it doesn’t work for everyone, but an extra like… point that might help you reconcile liking characters who do terrible things is that these two terrible things in particular are bad and genuinely offensive writing lol.

Like it’s probably easier to say “fuck the Eclipse rape idc” when you see it as hugely gratuitous, offensively depicted, contradictory in some ways to earlier canon***, wholly unnecessary, thematically muddy, and kind of disturbingly downplayed in the future for the sake of depicting NeoGriffith as a morally ambiguous hero of his own story (and Miura has straight up said that NGriff is supposed to be morally ambiguous and heroic depending on your pov lol).

Guts sexually assaulting Casca is also unnecessary (trying to murder her seems like it would be a sufficient illustration of darkness), super misogynist in that we’re still supposed to support Guts afterwards and sympathize with him and his guilt moreso than Casca, not to mention homophobic since it’s all about his (super suggestively described by the hound) feelings for Griffith.

So yk, these things may be canon but they suck and if dismissing them makes me enjoy the story more that seems like the best course of action.

And finally, if none of that helps at all, it’s worth taking into account that these are Griffith and Guts’ magical evil alter egos at work. Canonically Femto is the worst aspects of Griffith, magnified by literal evil, with the rest of him burned or shattered away. The last thing Griffith did as a character was sacrifice the Hawks. Everything else has just been a magically augmented part of him.

Guts’ Beast of Darkness similarly is part of Guts, not all of him, and it’s also given strength by Guts’ existence on the interstice, thanks to the Brand. That’s why Flora’s magic seal of protection on the brand helped like, metaphorically chain it up in Guts’ subconscious.

One of Berserk’s main thematic points is that everyone has an inner darkness in them, it’s part of being human, so it’s not that Guts and Griffith are singled out as extra evil.

As pure unmagical humans, Guts and Griffith are just interesting complicated people, neither saints nor demons, with an intense relationship, and imo there’s plenty of room for fluffy content between them pre-Eclipse, or in an AU. I mean canon has them bond during a naked waterfight lol, you know there are a ton of cute off-screen moments between them just waiting to be depicted in fanworks.

(With the caveat that Miura’s misogyny sometimes still shows through, eg Griffith’s night with Charlotte which is narratively treated as consensual even though she says “no” first (typical bodice ripper shit), or Guts sexually assaulting Casca by grabbing her boob to distract her during an argument which is treated as cute rather than fucked up. But yk, welcome to Berserk. Miura sucks.)

***eg in v brief one thing that bothers me is that in the Black Swordsman arc
it was strongly implied that Guts’ reaction to whatever made him so
angry at Griffith/Femto was paralyzing fear, whereas during the Eclipse
all we see is violent rage

This is about Falconia, bodies and lives being bought and sold, the natural order of the world, etc.

image

tw for csa (no graphic panels but still disturbing enough for a cut imo)

image
image
image
image
image
image
image

The Conviction Arc shows us in broadstrokes the world humanity’s collective unconscious wants to overturn through starving crowds, dungeons filled with tortured ‘heretics,’ rampant plague and the desire for a saviour, and nobles terrorizing peasants using god as an excuse, but this is the up close and personal version. Lives and bodies as commodities, weak trampled by the strong, poor ruled by the rich, and everyone accepting it as the way things are.

Our three main protagonists during the Golden Age all have very personal formative trauma that revolves around being bought and sold as a matter of course.

And Griffith’s dream, as someone wracked with guilt for lives lost in his battles, someone who has sold himself to a rich and powerful predator to save some of those lives, is to overturn this natural order of things.

image
image
image

And he does. Falconia is a place where children aren’t sold as sex slaves, where the powerful do not oppress the weak, where the rich don’t exploit the poor, where everyone is treated equally and with dignity, where Guts, Griffith, and Casca could’ve all had happy childhoods.

One of the important aspects of this theme re: societal power dynamics and exploitation is that these evil actions
are excused away. This is true of like, just about every abuser of power and
rapist in Berserk. Some think it’s okay because someone more powerful than
them told them they’re allowed (torturer, Wyald/probably the rest of
the apostles, Mozgus’ torturers, Mozgus and the inquisition in general
passing the buck onto God, Donovan because Gambino allowed it, etc),
some think it’s okay because that’s just the way things are (Donovan
again, Adon, Rosine’s got some of this, etc), some think it’s okay because
they’re powerful enough to do anything they want (implied with Gennon,
Ganeshka,

the Godhand, a lot of apostles, Casca’s attempted rapist nobleman), and finally some think it’s okay because the world wronged them (Gambino, apostles like Rosine again and Eggman, Jill’s dad, the baby eating heretics lmao, one could argue the King, Mozgus’ torturers again, etc).

Again, it all comes back to the “reason of the world,” the natural order of things that NeoGriff overturns. In the ordinary world these people with power can do whatever they want and justify it to themselves. In NeoGriffith’s world, they don’t. Apostles, our prime example of powerful preying on weak because they’re allowed to, no longer prey on humans, simply because of NeoGriffith’s existence.

image

It seems safe to assume nobles no longer exploit people either, if nobility is even still a thing in Falconia. Like granted, I’m taking some of this as read based on what we’re told Falconia is, but I feel like the apostles (and the explicit focus on equality) are a good representative example of the point of Falconia, which is to essentially fix everything we see wrong with the world in the Conviction arc and, like I laid out above, in our protagonists’ lives.

The fact is that Falconia isn’t just a utopia on a distant macro level, where the readers can look at it and go, hm seems nice I guess but w/e. On a micro level it’s a place where these horrible things that happened to the characters we personally love and care about wouldn’t’ve happened. I, at least, am emotionally invested in that utopia because of this, yk?

But here’s where I get critical of the portrayal:

Femto and the Eclipse rape is the epitome of the harmful power structure. Like, Femto hits every branch on his way down this tree lol. During his transformation he met God, God absolved him of his guilt and responsibility by telling him he can do whatever the fuck he wants and it’ll be the right thing. He’s taking the place of the nobleman he saved Casca from and exemplifying existing power structures of strong preying on weak, and it’s petty revenge.

One can easily argue that the Eclipse rape is a distillation of every abusive power structure in Berserk.

So okay, you have Falconia, a utopia that exists to eschew these power structures and create a place of equality where no one is exploited, created by a dude whose defining act is the epitome of these abusive power structures.

And frankly it’s fucking pointless. This feels like the shallowest of shallow hot takes lol. Like, oooh what if this wonderful place where all the horrible things that traumatized our favourite characters are no longer an accepted given was created by an evil demon rapist???

Like… okay? And then what? The Eclipse rape has nothing to do with the social structure of Falconia, NGriff seems to have completely delivered on his/humanity’s dream regardless, he is now the higher power making the calls and he hasn’t told everyone to do whatever they want no matter who it hurts. From what we’ve seen he’s done the exact opposite, existing as a tempering influence on the apostles who no longer prey on those weaker than them, ending the Holy See’s reign of terror, ending wars in general, and uniting people in their differences.

So it’s just like, an arbitrary evil act which creates an artificial sense of moral greyness. It has no deep meaning. I mean I suppose Miura could address it in the future – I’ve mentioned that I think it could theoretically be really interesting for Casca to visit Falconia and see the dream she devoted her life to having come to fruition because of her rapist. But even so, that doesn’t have any like… deeper intrigue. That’s interesting for Casca’s character, not as an examination of moral relativity or w/e.

Similarly, if NeoGriffith turns out to be more human than he looks he could reflect on this contradiction in a potentially interesting way.

But I can’t think of a way to make it an interesting examination of morality. It’s boring at its core imo. I mean you could argue that it’s still worthwhile on that personal character level, but let’s be real here – no amount of potentially interesting character stuff in Casca’s future is worth removing her from the story for 20 years, and anything w/ NeoGriffith would be a retread of human Griffith’s guilt issues and frankly I don’t see it happening anyway lol.

So yeah ultimately this whole egalitarian utopia created by a rapist demon thing just does not work for me at all. There’s no reason the creator of this paradise /had/ to be a symbol of this abusive power structure it exists to destroy, again, that’s just an arbitrary happenstance, not a pre-requisite to utopia building, so it doesn’t say anything about the nature of Falconia. It doesn’t say anything about utopias in general, it doesn’t say anything about those power structures that we don’t already know (ie they bad, equality good).

It’s like, fake deep tbqh.

The actual interesting and morally grey aspect of Falconia is the way world peace was achieved by setting a bunch of fantasy monsters loose on humanity, and that has nothing to do with the Eclipse rape. Like, that’s literally all you need for the moral complexity. We have world peace and a growing utopia that everyone is welcome to join, but the price is monsters everywhere, and this could not have happened without those monsters to unite humanity in fear. Is the world better or worse than it used to be?

And NGriff being a rapist, or his demon alter ego being a rapist, or whatever the deal is there, adds nothing to that question, rather, it distracts from it and devalues the actual moral ambiguity.

In fact, it makes me wonder whether Miura regrets going with rape as his way of demonstrating Femto’s evil. Because it’s been such a non-issue to the whole theme of power structures, utopias, equality, etc, that it feels like Miura is sweeping it under the rug lol – it’s less of an attempt at dark irony and more the elephant in the room. I can’t even say with confidence that Femto was intended to be a symbol of exploitative power structures, despite how obvious it seems, because it just… hasn’t impacted the themes of the story at all.

madchen
replied to your post “i wonder what it’s like to read neogriffith’s narrative thru the lens…”

these people just think that everything griffith is doing is all part of some evil master plan to end the world or ruin humanity or whatever even though hes never had any motivation of incentive to do such
that being said, it
definitely puts more of a stake in how they view guts fight lol? even if
they are ignoring literally everything else the story has told us and
rational common sense that a sudden reveal in the plot that griffith is
actually Evil (like. evil in the big bad villain way) would be
satisfying.

you mean wouldn’t be satisfying, right? bc yeah v true lol

it wouldn’t even be a reveal (we all saw the eclipse), it would just be a bizarre, tonally fucked up back and forth… weird thing. well, moreso than griffith’s narrative already is lol

like we get moments like this during the millenium falcon arc:

image
image

it’s just not framed as a tense bad vibey moment w/ an evil dude manipulating a bunch of poor innocent people so he can get a kingdom, it’s framed as ‘lol fuck you noble assholes, griffith’s back and this time he’s getting his utopia, high five’

like do other people basically read a scene like this with sinister horror movie music playing in the background?

i mean i completely get if (general) you can’t ignore the eclipse rape in your perception of the story, but i feel like if you can’t do that, then your berserk is fundamentally at odds with miura’s berserk, since he has diligently ignored it throughout the entirety of neogriffith’s narrative, without a single fuck given for the kind of awkward tonal pall it casts over everything.

under a cut because a) this is largely about the hot button issue of griffith + sexual assault and b) it’s pretty off the cuff rather than carefully thought out so i want to reserve control over it lol

i’m gonna be honest, my biggest issue with the theme of griffith + beauty + sexual victimization is that it’s both very loud and clear, like it’s absolutely an intrinsic part of griffith’s narrative, but for some unknown reason it’s also more subtle than every other instance of sexual victimization we see? and i have no idea why miura was so coy about it but it makes it difficult and a little awkward to just take it as read

like even at the start w/ gennon. guts’ csa trauma is unambiguous – it’s violent, guts struggles and fights, etc. casca’s is also unambiguous attempted rape. she tries to run, and then is able to kill her attacker. but griffith’s is “voluntary” enough that like a majority of berserk fans don’t even see it as rape, despite gennon literally being a pedophile with a harem of child sex slaves, and griffith being a child, “who could still be called a boy in his innocence,” according to casca. the next morning griffith himself frames it as seducing gennon. also, unlike the other two instances, we don’t see what happened. All we have is Casca’s glimpse of Gennon’s hand on his shoulder and Griffith’s explanation the next morning.

And I actually have no issue at all with how it’s portrayed in canon, like anyone who isn’t a rape apologist and has an iota of reading comprehension should be able to figure out that it is rape and griffith was traumatized by it. I definitely don’t think Miura thinks Griffith freely consented or intended it to be read as ambiguous either. Griffith saying he seduced Gennon says way more about Griffith than about what actually happened. But compared to our other two protagonists and their formative traumas, it’s not nearly as in your face.

Then you have Griffith and the torturer, which is all left in creepy innuendo. Like it’s blatant enough that it seems willfully blind to assume there was no sexual assault going on, but again, it’s not like Miura shies away from depicting rape everywhere else in Berserk, so why is it only left in innuendo?

And yk what I think there’s a throughline from those – Gennon and the torturer as sexual predators obsessing over Griffith’s beauty – and both Griffith offering himself to Casca in the wagon and then Griffith’s vision of his future with Casca, t b q h. In that nightmare he’s attractive again, he’s virtually immobile, and again there’s the implication that Casca is having sex with him.

image

like I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to take all this together and say Griffith has some serious issues with sex even if Miura doesn’t come right out and say it like he does for everyone else.

like terrible, terrible depiction aside, this is probably the best set up for the eclipse rape we have. sex to griffith being a show of power or lack of power, and with griffith it’s always been the lack of it. with gennon, and charlotte, and casca in the wagon it’s been a trade – griffith giving them the only thing he has to offer in exchange for something they, with their greater power can give him. money, a kingdom, and… idk my reading of the wagon scene changes with the winds, but in this context i suppose it would be security, possibly griffith thinking if casca stays then guts will stay too after seeing them together.

and then this vision depicting a life like that. like the wagon scene and this nightmare seem to exist mainly to set up why the dark negative evil side of griffith would take this out on casca specifically, because griffith had just been projecting these issues onto her and when he gains power and loses his “goodness” he spitefully reverses their perceived roles.

BUT AGAIN this is both unnecessarily subtle and also a huge fucking mess thanks to how terribly written and depicted the eclipse rape was (and also the depction of the charlotte scene doesn’t help lbr) so I feel like i’m making shit up to make griffith more sympathetic lol. even though i’m like 90% sure it’s purposeful and also it doesn’t rly make griffith more sympathetic because i wholeheartedly sympathize with him even without all this lol, and femto is a literal demon made of evil so it doesn’t make him more sympathetic either. it just kind of ties a lot of themes together.