Like, this is a moment of Griffith’s inner darkness shining through. It’s perfect because it comes right after his long dream speech to Charlotte, as he’s learning that he’s achieved a particularly horrible step on the path to his dream. His dream just caused an innocent kid to be killed, and he’s smiling about it.
It’s a very strong way to equate dreams to darkness early on – and it’s great foreshadowing for Guts’ own descent too. This speech that ends with Griffith smiling over the death of a child – that causes that smile – is the very thing that inspires Guts to leave to pursue his own dream! Which ends up being the Black Swordsman arc.
Like compare Griffith’s evil smile to Black Swordsman Guts’ slasher smiles as he’s, yk, fighting “stronger and stronger opponents,” ie pursuing his own dream. Dreams are terrible all around for everyone and I love it.
This is also part of Griffith’s set up that’s very soon knocked down in a subversion of the reader’s expectations. Like I’ve talked about how Griffith’s narrative begins with an image and eventually peels that away to the truth – we start with Femto, then we get early larger-than-life knight in shining armour Griffith who would do anything for his dream, here w/ the assassination we get the darker aspects of that emphasized, and then only five chapters later we get our first full pull-back of the curtain style reveal of the real Griffith, in Casca’s flashback.
Compare Griffith smiling when a child dies on the path to his dream up there to:
and
It’s Griffith burying his guilt – getting much better at burying it through consistent practice lol – and demonstrating his willingness to do so in order to achieve his dream, which, ironically, he’s pursuing because of that guilt. It’s perfect.
I think I’ve phrased it before as like, after learning about Griffith’s dead child related guilt issues in Casca’s flashback shortly after, that smile when he finds out Adonis is dead can only mean one of two things:
either in the intervening years he’s changed so fundamentally that he no longer has those guilt issues, and therefore Casca’s flashback chapters are functionally meaningless and unnecessary to an almost comedic extent.
or it means he’s successfully buried his guilt so thoroughly in this moment as he’s pontificating to Charlotte about his dream that his reaction is pleased – he’s kind of like, becoming the mask, doing that good a job of convincing himself it’s all necessary for the sake of his dream.
And we see Griffith’s guilt issues crop up again in Tombstone of Flame
and again when Ubik’s convincing him to make the sacrifice, soooo we
know it’s not option one lol.
idk it’s a great example of the fucked up duality that comes from living in denial and eventually leads to choosing to become a monster because you already see yourself as one, basically, and it’s something I absolutely love about Griffith’s character.
Is it possible also that on one level he’s smiling specifically because Guts killed a child for him? Because he can take that as pretty strong evidence that Guts is loyal to him and more importantly won’t turn away from Griffith’s dark side or judge him for his darker actions? Like, on top of everything else that’s happening in his fluffy head in that moment.
Huh, interesting idea, I never thought of it that way before.
I’ve gotta give this a solid maybe, because I could see an argument either way. Like, I guess I don’t think it would be an intended reading on Miura’s part, mostly because of how completely sinister and creepy that smile is lol. Like I feel that if Miura wanted to convey a sense of Griffith being relieved in a way by Guts going the extra mile and killing a kid, his smile might seem more like… emotionally complex? Kind of tender?
I’m feeling a little deprived now because I’m imagining Griffith smiling in a more fond way rather than an evil villain way after hearing the news and I’m really loving that idea lol.
Anyway regardless of potential authorial intent, I really like this suggestion, in part because of how emotionally vulnerable and insecure he is in Tombstone of Flame, after another round of comparatively justified assassinations. I like the idea of Griffith maybe wanting to believe that Guts killing Adonis means he’s ride or die for him and won’t judge him for what he does to get to the throne, maybe letting that knowledge make him a little more secure in his relationship with Guts between Promrose and Tombstone, but still being terrified that it’s like, a really fucked-up example of Griffith dragging Guts down with him, and something that makes Guts want to run.
It adds another little layer to the rug being pulled out from under him when Guts does leave. Another action to add to his own self-loathing – it’s not that Guts killed a kid for Griffith, maybe indicating that they share a certain darkness, it’s that Griffith caused him to kill a kid, Griffith dragged him into the darkness, and Guts presumably hates him for it.
(Also there is something absolutely delightful about Guts hating himself after killing Adonis and seeing himself as a monster and unworthy of Griffith’s friendship, even as it makes Griffith feel more secure, more able to open up to Guts, and then later makes Griffith feel more like a monster dragging Guts down. Like, it fits right into the rest of their giant misunderstanding, and it’s the kind of fucked up scenario I live for.)
So I just re-read the chapter and damn, you’re so right. I’m half convinced it’s purposeful innuendo lol. I mean come on we start off with an ode to repressed (violent) lust, followed by possessed!Farnese grinding on Guts’ sword, followed by a joke about Serpico being a masochist (Puck pointing out his nosebleed after Farnese slaps him), followed by an exchange of glancing blows that imo reads suspiciously like a tease.
Anyway regardless of how much I wanna read into the innuendo here, Guts is objectively way more interested in Serpico than Farnese
I’d say that argument is directly and unambiguously contradicted over and over again in the story, including by Griffith himself.
And like, literally the last thing Griffith thinks before sacrificing Guts is that Guts is more important than his dream. That’s why he’s sacrificing him. “You’re the only one who made me forget my dream.”
The main point of the Golden Age is to hammer home the concept that Guts is more important to Griffith than the dream, and it does it over and over and over lol. Everything revolves around that fact. And the sacrifice is a really clever (imo) culmination of that theme, not a weird last-minute contradiction of it.
Also I might try to add a quick explanation of my reading of the dream, ie it’s a defense mechanism/way for Griffith to escape his feelings, both guilt and the feelings for Guts that make him vulnerable and essentially destroyed his life, “the life of the person you loved the most and hated the most! you gave it to us so that you could bury your fragile human heart!” all that jazz. Which explains why Griffith chooses his dream over Guts even though he cares about Guts more (because he cares about him more). But idk if I could manage that without writing an essay, or more likely, linking one I’ve already written lol.
Wrt the second bit, idk what the fact that he had to sacrifice the other Hawks too has to do with it, it’s pretty clear to me that Godhand sacrifices are bigger and more epic than apostle sacrifices, but Guts still gets the spotlight even though there’s 30-40 others in the group. He’s the one Griffith’s last thoughts are directed to, he’s the one Slan singles out as a particularly excellent sacrifice, he’s the one Zodd directed his “prophecy” to and even makes sure to save so he can be sacrificed later (when he threw him a sword during the battle of Doldrey), while Rosine and the Count and Wyald killed a bunch of Hawks before the Eclipse without causing any issues. He’s the one Skull Knight singles out to give a warning to.
I like that the rest of the Hawks are included because it proves that Griffith does in fact care very much about all of them. I mean Casca’s flashback already proved that, but yk, it never hurts to underline Griffith’s capacity for caring about others, because Griffith himself downplays it as much as possible lol, to say nothing about the fandom. But I don’t think it detracts from Guts as the most important sacrifice either. He’s still above and beyond. He’s the one who caused Griffith’s behelit-opening despair, and he’s the one Griffith sacrifices to escape that despair.
Idk man, the sacrifice is like half the reason I ship griffguts, so I definitely don’t think it downplays or diminishes Griffith’s feelings for Guts in any way, imo it emphasizes how they’re front and centre as Griffith’s number one priority and central motivation in an immensely satisfying way.
Yup! Guts is so important mainly because he is the one person that was able to get behind Griffith´s defense mechanisms…
I think that Guts own fragility also plays a role in it…Guts doesn´t approach anybody…but soon he found himself being drawn to Griffith, but he also fought that urge…making him appear in Griffith´s eyes as somebody special…somebody who fought not just against the “perfect image” of Griffith, but also wished to be near the person…They were comrades at the beginning…before Promerose…
Then he succumbed to the image of Griffith…but for Griffith himself…nothing had changed…
On the other hand…Guts did perceive Griffith as a person of higher standing, that is clear when he says to Griffith, he should just order him to go and
kill that person when Griffith wished to ask him on a more personal
level…, simply due to his abilities…Griffith was oblivious to his own feelings for Guts (romantically or not…Guts was important for him)
The relationship is so fascinating because it is neither entirely fire nor water, but both…just at different times.
Yeah totally! It’s one of those relationships that could’ve been perfect for them, but they didn’t quite manage to set aside their false perceptions of themselves and each other in time, and that’s what ruined everything. I like how you put it, both fire and water but at different times. They’re fundamentally compatible but they miss out on that ultimate connection because they each prioritize the wrong thing at the wrong moments.
Like I maintain that if Guts had never heard the Promrose Hall speech, Tombstone of Flame would’ve been the scene that sealed the deal. Guts seeing Griffith’s vulnerabilities and being put in a position where his reassurance is what Griffith needs, demonstrating how human Griffith really is and how necessary Guts is to him. And Guts being able to be there for him and provide that reassurance.
But yk Guts overheard the stupid Promrose Hall speech, took it to heart, and prioritized dreams instead of human connection.
I’ve been wanting to write my own analysis of Locus for a
while, but I figured I’d wait for the guidebook to come out and potentially
give me interesting new info on him. Now, since one of those has happened, I
might as well make the post!
My goal is to highlight a great character that gets
overlooked and misinterpreted a lot, understandably since Berserk has so many characters, but also because people tend to be biased against the ones on Griffith’s side and simplify them.
This will touch on guidebook content only
for
a bit, specifically
my problems with it, then go right back to the manga for an overview of Locus’
scenes and context for my interpretation of him. Since it’s very text and image
heavy, it’s going under a cut. Enjoy, and feel free to add stuff, as I’m always open to discussion!
legit. even innuendos aside, the uniqueness of the fight is a good reflection of the uniqueness of yk the circumstances, the relationship, it’s such a gr8 scene in general. and i do love those innuendos.
Honestly I think Casca is going to be the only one of the three who will ultimately survive in the end. Griffith’s pure and wonderful kingdom is just /too good/ to last, and I think it will be Guts (our apparent “hero”) who will actually destroy that – and make the world a worse place for it, all in the name of revenge, which is always seen as cool and good in most other He-Man Manly fiction. In a way, it’ll be like both Guts and Griffith are destined to fail through “winning” what they’ve got
and I’ve seen too many
people say they want to see Guts and Casca kill Griffith and go off to
live happily ever after.. LOL. as if Guts’ entire history of not knowing
anything but fighting and killing is suddenly going to be “cured.” The
guy is the literal embodiment of live-by-sword, die-by-sword, and he
will never stop. Griffith’s death will be tragic not so much for losing
him, but the world he has created for others. Casca deserves to be
without their drama anyway lol
…totally agree that
the rape was cheap and a crappy stark way to make readers hate Griffith.
Like I understand why it’s there, but it was a very poor choice. I
preferred the ambiguity of grey morality with the entire sacrifice on
its own. A more direct and personal “fuck you Guts” via Griffith
without raping Casca could’ve easily been switched with any number of
non-sexual acts
honestly this ending would be fantastic imo. i mean i fell in love with berserk when it was a tragedy about 2 dudes whose understandable and empathetic yet still fatal flaws ruined everything, and i want it to return to a tragedy about 2 dudes who continue to ruin everything bc they can’t overcome those flaws.
painting the destruction of falconia as a bad outcome because guts failed to find a better way to deal with his issues than sword swinging would work v well for me.
if miura needs a hopeful note he can have it with the children and maybe some of the other side characters, but i want guts and griffith to destroy themselves and each other again so bad and for that to be shown as a another tragedy.
Anon who sent me the Griffith-hate ask, I accidentally deleted your second message while trying to delete a different one lol, sorry about that. Once again I hope you see this and sorry about the lack of notif again.
But basically what I wanted to say is that yeah sure that “warming a man is a woman’s duty” bit is misogynist (and I think you mentioned the Promrose Hall speech too? as another example the person you’re hatereading gave?), but yk, so is Judeau’s “she’s our woman and we want her back” statement while rescuing Casca, so is 90% of everything Guts says to her ever, and so is 90% of the narrative voice honestly.
Idk man this is another instance where I’d say if they’re going to judge other fans for liking something w/ offensive elements, they should probably just put down Berserk and find something else to enjoy.
not to mention how that particular statement coming from griffith smells suspiciously of like heteronormativity and intense repression moreso than i think it says anything about how griffith sees women
how griffith sees women is clear from the fact that he didn’t rescue casca, he gave her a sword to rescue herself, and then let her join his band of mercenaries. imo anyway
ia.
yk i was going to say something like, “in fairness I wouldn’t use it as an argument against ppl saying that line makes Griffith misogynist bc that’s giving Miura way too much credit” but lol I’m actually torn because it’s so easy to ascribe that line to repression, especially because, like you say, it contradicts what we’re later shown and told about what Griffith thinks women are capable of, and it’s at odds with his general existence in the GA narrative as the progressive dude who scares the conservatives lol.
So either it’s a deliberate contrast to show that Griffith has a particular blind spot when it comes to physical intimacy between people, which also fits in nicely with the fact that he has trauma related to same sex desire and Casca lays all that out at the same time she tells Guts that she admires Griffith because he threw her a sword and gave her a blanket and generally treated her with respect, and expresses her jealousy of Guts because of Griffith’s feelings for him. Like, basically Casca’s flashback ties everything together in a neat little repression bow.
OR it’s a mildly ooc moment because Miura needed some kind of plot contrivance to give Casca a reason to hate Guts and potentially to get her naked in bed with him for the sake of future sex, if he was thinking along those lines this early.
I still wouldn’t use it to try to shut someone down in an argument I guess lol, but I mean, I would say “okay fair enough but here’s how I take that line and why” and consider that a fairly strong interpretation.
ok true, it is still a shitty line and unfortunately like most berserk characters griffith has a sort of misogynist track record but yeah, i don’t get the feeling that those are his core beliefs as much as they are something he has internalised
and as much of a shitty misogynist miura continually proves himself to be, though, i still don’t think he’s a complete idiot and, in my eyes at least, this particular line was kiiind of criticised with casca’s raw reaction to it. like, i think miura does sympathise with his female characters, at least as much as he can as a man who’s been writing his finest piece of work for many decades now almost entirely with his dick
Anon who sent me the Griffith-hate ask, I accidentally deleted your second message while trying to delete a different one lol, sorry about that. Once again I hope you see this and sorry about the lack of notif again.
But basically what I wanted to say is that yeah sure that “warming a man is a woman’s duty” bit is misogynist (and I think you mentioned the Promrose Hall speech too? as another example the person you’re hatereading gave?), but yk, so is Judeau’s “she’s our woman and we want her back” statement while rescuing Casca, so is 90% of everything Guts says to her ever, and so is 90% of the narrative voice honestly.
Idk man this is another instance where I’d say if they’re going to judge other fans for liking something w/ offensive elements, they should probably just put down Berserk and find something else to enjoy.
not to mention how that particular statement coming from griffith smells suspiciously of like heteronormativity and intense repression moreso than i think it says anything about how griffith sees women
how griffith sees women is clear from the fact that he didn’t rescue casca, he gave her a sword to rescue herself, and then let her join his band of mercenaries. imo anyway
ia.
yk i was going to say something like, “in fairness I wouldn’t use it as an argument against ppl saying that line makes Griffith misogynist bc that’s giving Miura way too much credit” but lol I’m actually torn because it’s so easy to ascribe that line to repression, especially because, like you say, it contradicts what we’re later shown and told about what Griffith thinks women are capable of, and it’s at odds with his general existence in the GA narrative as the progressive dude who scares the conservatives lol.
So either it’s a deliberate contrast to show that Griffith has a particular blind spot when it comes to physical intimacy between people, which also fits in nicely with the fact that he has trauma related to same sex desire and Casca lays all that out at the same time she tells Guts that she admires Griffith because he threw her a sword and gave her a blanket and generally treated her with respect, and expresses her jealousy of Guts because of Griffith’s feelings for him. Like, basically Casca’s flashback ties everything together in a neat little repression bow.
OR it’s a mildly ooc moment because Miura needed some kind of plot contrivance to give Casca a reason to hate Guts and potentially to get her naked in bed with him for the sake of future sex, if he was thinking along those lines this early.
I still wouldn’t use it to try to shut someone down in an argument I guess lol, but I mean, I would say “okay fair enough but here’s how I take that line and why” and consider that a fairly strong interpretation.
Hello dear readers of Beserk, after so long in the end I could finish the review of Casca and Farnese, the truth was something difficult I had to read the manga several times but without focusing on the protagonist, only Casca solo, then Farnese alone and then together, without more to say let’s start … I’ll summarize it as much as I can.
Many fondly remember Casca as a strong warrior, although Miura actually wrote a character with many traumas and one of the solutions that Casca chose was to “adore” that “Angel” who came and gave him a blanket along with a sword, so much that she decided to follow him and was “in love” with him or that Guts thought when he heard his story, but of course I do not think Casca knew it was love and that is seen later …this reminds me a lot of Utena and the typical intentional “Cliches”.
In any manga you will find a similar situation, Casca is also one of the women that due to their childhood want to be “needed” to be “indispensable” for a person in general and that is what in the end marks their character.
After Guts appears, a love triangle develops between Guts-Griffith-Casca that eventually leads to eclipse, for 3 years Casca was jealous of Guts and it bothered him that he has become indispensable for Griffith, one of the things I’ve noticed is that Casca despite being tough, the complex of being “needed” dominates her a lot, but she also wants someone to protect her. It is one of her honest desires that she does not even want to admit, it is not offensive to say this because so many Characters have this complex that is incredible.
After having sex for compensation with Guts (because that was and there is no point in denying it, even my mother who saw it for the first time in the anime version, she told me) in the midst of her depression and stress, she decides that Guts Maybe that person is, after all in the eyes of Casca is Guts who always rescues her, protects her and in a certain way felt needed, unique and maybe she gave something to him, when Guts left after the duel Griffith she missed him a lot because she was already emotionally attached to him is normal.
Many said “oh it’s love” but when they recovered Griffith and throughout the mission they see aspects of her that actually show that it was not love, but the need to feel “irreplaceable” and clear replace her idealized person Griffith, but just Griffith really needs her (from the perspective of Casca certainly) she returns to be the same although it hurts, ironically there Griffith wanted Guts and I bet Casca realized.
Although Miura was forcing the eclipse there could be seen that Guts and Casca’s relationship did not start relatively “healthy” because it literally derives from 2 people (Griffith and Judou) and this in a way that inevitably was going to end because she has not yet faced her problems alone as it should be and from there Discover if you really love
As a curious and serious fact I do not want to offend any reader of Berserk, but in all the panels of Casca before she had sex with Guts, in none she showed “romantic” attraction to Guts and now that I review I can say that it is very strange, what you notice is the emotional attachment as I mentioned before … but that attraction that a teenager should feel, I just did not see her. That Miura has already represented this in other characters, but Casca just does not … that’s why every time I see the scene of “love” Guts and Casca, fits in that they are 2 friends who had sex to calm the pain that felt in those moments, that is more what represents that image was the culmination of emotional attachment, but it never became a romance as such, but even so many Berserk readers idealize that relationship.
Since I spoke a little about the Golden Age Casca, I will turn to the question in question:
nice tbh, I could see this as a purposeful parallel – marrying someone for political gain while being in love with someone else – or at least consider it p telling that the Golden Age is full of people being in love with people they theoretically shouldn’t be, whether that’s actually true or whether their feelings conflict with their goals or whether it’s their own issues and insecurity talking lol.
Guts and Griffith are surrounded by like, echoes of their relationship from various angles and I could see this as one of them.
i don’t know how popular this idea is, but i think i genuinely like charlotte lol. she’s … sweet. she has potential. she’s timid but can be very brave. and i didn’t intend for this to become an ‘in defense of charlotte’ post but i suppose it is, it got a lot longer than i intended.
she’s witnessed griffith get shot, slapped by her uncle, slapped by rickert, poisoned at a ball, orchestrated his rescue (i wonder if griffith knows this tbh), loved him and wasn’t repelled even when he was reduced to a withered husk (to me this reads as her love for him wasn’t superficial), and stayed loyal to him for years … and after everything, she’s one of the few people that still truly cares for his well-being, the only human he’s still in (amicable) contact with and a holdover from the golden age.
she likes him as a person, doesn’t idealize him, and she’s seen him at his lowest … (even if her fondness for him is a bit flowery, when she’s young especially). the only other person i can credit with these rare conditions is/was guts. idk that’s pretty significant imo.
i mean yes, of course there’s plenty of knight-in-shining-armor naivety involved, but still. she’s good, she’s gentle with him. i think he appreciates it. she respects him, and he appreciates that too. he knows she has nothing to truly gain from being with him, ergo … i think he feels like he can trust her (even though she’s obviously just a goalpost initially … but maybe like guts, her role evolves in griffith’s mind too. people we are made to believe are mere tools to griffith becoming important to him? idk maybe there’s something to this, maybe not).
i don’t endorse them as a “couple” per se, because i definitely believe griffith is gay as hell, and initially just needs her to achieve his goals. but … i think she symbolizes, at least a little bit to griffith, that maybe he is worthwhile to someone, outside of the idealized griffith. that’s saying a lot for a person with incredibly deep-seated self-loathing and worthlessness issues.
furthermore, i believe he likes her as a person, both in golden age and as ngriff (as much as he can like a person given the circumstances, and we still aren’t entirely clear on those circumstances). it’s significant though. he likes her because she’s not trying to take something from him, physically or symbolically, regardless of what role she actually represents to him. he’s a smart man with good instinct regarding people’s intentions, not recognizing her strengths would be direly remiss on his part imo, and highly unlikely.
she’s got a lot of strength honestly, and it’s sad that she’s seen as pretty weak and a character to be pitied, or worse, hollow or dumb. she’s gentle, but not weak, and she finds real strength in a crisis. that might be her strongest asset … especially since she’s SEEN some shit now, and she’s a little older. and speaking to her strengths, she lives through some horrifying shit from her father especially (here’s some points about her shitty dad i screen-shotted from wiki);
it’s interesting how each retelling of berserk loses more and more detailed and important story, and by interesting i mean it’s fucking bullshit. god, how droll. yes, by all means, dismantle griffith’s character and motivations further, as if his nature isn’t opaque enough already to most fans, even with all information we are privy to fully-intact. given griffith’s top-billing role in berserk and miura’s penchant for holding out on his deepest feelings until it’s too late … i wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t get full griffith until the very, very end. if he even gives a shit about griffith anymore lmao (and i’m definitely not laughing any ass off here i assure you).
anyhow back to charlotte … i actually think i’m rooting for her, but i’d never given this any serious thought until now. i know there are theories about her getting killed and griffith not caring etc., i could see it but i don’t think that’ll be how it goes down. i’d love for her to at least once find real power in her position, and maybe even outshine griffith (in the people’s eyes) with her genuine kindness as a ruler. there’s gotta be a part of her that wants to outdo her shitty family with her own goals, and i don’t want to believe that her singular goal is a flat “griffith” (in contrast to guts honestly lmao). but it may just be that. maybe she’s content, but i hope not. i’m hoping she’s a more relevant character than we’re led to believe. she has huge potential as a ruler, she just needs a reason to rise to the occasion.
there’s also a lot of rebellion tied in her steadfast loyalty to griffith. just the act of being with griffith is a huge blatant fuck you to her shitty family. not only did her parents and uncle fucking loathe him, all 3 of them tried to have him killed at different junctions. her uncle smacks him (and guts has a big reaction, much like his big reaction to griffith being shot–she’s seen how much guts cared for him [and casca too for that matter]). i can’t help but wonder what charlotte’s gonna think when she inevitably sees guts and casca again … i don’t think they’ve seen her since the rescue. she probably assumes they’re dead. it’s interesting to think about in any case … and who knows, maybe she will act as some sort of mediator or unifying force against a greater evil? there are endless possibilities, but everything i imagine feels like it’d take more time to come to fruition than miura has left on this earth. UGH.
i don’t want her to regret guts saving her per se, as far as current shit goes because she’s been thru enough … but … so many things in berserk are cyclical it could very well still apply. and tbh i want her to be angry about a lot of things that have happened
i’d love for her to get righteous revenge for turning her good, likeable and interesting character into a plot device for the sole conveyance of manpain for the past 20 years t b f h
i want a dark call back to that moment in the cave now, either as tragedy bc casca did not want to be saved by guts or by getting her sanity “forced” back (”shouldn’t’ve saved her”)
or
as casca resoundingly and v seriously rejecting guts in favour of farnese
yeah i was also super into that fanart. probs not the artist’s intention but made me think of casca holding guts’ sword after he left lol
mm on the subject of broken swords in general, ng ia,l i like the idea of the dragonslayer breaking
like if guts dies that would be an appropriate af prelude to it. a nice subtle rebuke of living your life by the sword.
actually it could also be a gr8 prelude to guts sorting out his feelings properly. you know like how i say that i want to believe guts’ current sidequest is a distraction from his conflicted feelings towards revenge/griffith/etc and what he should actually be doing is trying to untangle the emotional snarl that happens when your “true light” is also your nemesis lol. well the point is guts’ sword shatting could be a nice symbol of his distractions failing him and leaving him no choice but to confront his own feelings. maybe say something.
like it would go nicely with a third duel that has a strong emotional core
This is all great and I’m sorry I don’t have anything intelligent to add to it, but imagine his sword breaking during a third duel bc NGriff and/or Femto is “the absolute”.
Like the Griff/Femto breaking the sword that gets uncomfortably close to striking him, and then having to deal with the possibly-not-so-frozen heart issue, bc suddenly Guts is v vulnerable and killable.
NICE
griffith’s brain suddenly scrambling for an excuse not to kill him lol.
long game: decides to keep him locked up in his cellar dungeon, won’t stop visiting and talking to him to guts’ consternation
eventually something gives and gay conversations happen
@freewilllife I’m c/ping this bc that post is really long to reblog imo lol
I half-wonder if this is an issue with Miura writing some of Berserk
while depressed lol, considering how utterly cynical the Conviction arc
is.
I think this is the case.Depending on the real life issues of the author…and yes I think it somehow is fitting…
Because
sometimes a relationship even an unequal one is better than being
alone, however it can turn out worse if the dependent state doesn´t
develop…
Somehow I think ( I know what a thought…most
Griffith/Guts fans do know that I suppose) that Griffith and Guts had a
dependency on each other that could have turned into a nice
relationship, but fate and their own insufficient communication skills
prevented it.
Guts wished to be the equal of Griffith…he
wished to acquire it…The way he chose was…It would have not been bad if
he had somehow come to another realisation than committing murder is his
“dream” ( That is just my priority maybe?).
Casca on the other
hand wished to maintain an unequal relationship at all cost…she wished
to be near Griffith, later Guts. It is depicted as if Casca only wished
to be Griffith´s sword since she wished to stay in his shadow…Whereas
Guts wished to obtain an own dream in order to be his equal…
Yeah there’s something to be said for Guts and Casca’s (and Charlotte’s) respective reactions to hearing Griffith’s dream speech. Even if it was a stupid speech and Guts’ decision was misguided, he’s still the only one who was like, well I’d better go out and achieve something so I can be his bff.
And it’s also very telling that Guts invited Casca along on his dream adventure – it shows that Guts is not thinking of her as an equal, he’s thinking of her as support for him, the way she was support for Griffith, rather than someone who could achieve her own dream and become an equal w/ him and Griffith.
(This probably says more about how Miura sees romantic (het) relationships as opposed to All-Important Bonds Between Men, but yk.)
Like imo the whole notion of dreams + equals is stupid as fuck, but it’s what Guts is basing his life around at that point and Casca just doesn’t figure in as a potential equal as far as he’s concerned.
Also of course I completely agree that Guts and Griffith’s relationship could’ve been exactly what they both needed, and could’ve been (and was for a time) a hugely positive influence on both of them, but fate and their own issues interfered and ruined it. Like I don’t think they were ever not equals – regardless of their stupid arbitrary standards, their feelings for each other made them equals, and I s2g the water fight is symbolic of that fact.
Like, not literally but symbolically, Griffith won the first fight, Guts won the second – the waterfight. So when Guts won a third – the second duel – it fucked up the balance and resulted in Griffith losing everything, and demonstrated that Guts was leaving based on a false premise.
(also lmao yeah the dream Guts landed on is kind of hilarious in how terrible it is. i love that you describe it as ‘committing murder’ bc it’s not exactly far off)
this isn’t a complete thought here but i wonder/hope that there’s some narrative irony happening or going to happen if anything? idk like of course the ceremony and events leading up to griffiths reincarnation as a perfect image of his dream and ideal self would try to hammer home cynicism of not needing others enough. guts kind of well with the campiness of the arc too ig. i hope this makes a little sense i haven’t read conviction in a long time.
Yeah no I get what you mean, ngl I was kind of thinking something similar while re-reading those chapters, like, everything Egg says about relationships sounds like it could come straight from a Griffith who has been burned lol. And it is the lead-up to the creation of Griffith’s perfect world, which Egg is advocating for here. So in that way it does maybe make sense to be extra cynical, reflecting back on Golden Age stuff through a whatever the opposite of rose coloured lens is.
like, maybe that’s Femto’s perception of that relationship lol.
I mean honestly this is exactly how I think Griffith thought of himself after the second duel/even tombstone of flame, word for word. And again, that’s something that could’ve changed so easily if Guts had just told him how he actually felt.
So I can’t accept it as an objective statement, but a subjective statement filtered thru bitterness + self-loathing? Kinda works.
Also yeah the extremely campy tone of this arc does kind of lend itself to more meta (in the self-referential sense, not the fandom essays sense) stuff like this imo.
My misgiving is that this seems like more thought than Miura put into it lol. But idk I should probably re-read the whole arc before I say something like that, like maybe there are indications that we’re not meant to take some of the Conviction arc themes as objective truth, and I just don’t remember/never noticed them.
How do you interpret the scene where Griffith reaches for Guts’ throat?
I’ve read a lot of different takes and enjoy them all quite a bit. Personally I feel that Griffith almost wants to strangle Guts after finally seeing him after almost a year of constantly obsessing over Guts leaving him while he is physically tortured, like he blames Guts for his psychological torture (and is in more pain from that, and not the physical). Guts feels it and doesn’t care and possibly believes he deserves..
Deserves Griffith’s
hatred. The one other comrade (omg I forgot his name???) sees this
exchange and is actually taken aback by them both.
Despite his rage and ill feelings towards Guts, however, Griffith can’t
even make himself act out in strangling (also because he’s weak af but I
mean emotionally) because deep down he is, surprised to admit to
himself, elated to see Guts again and to be held by him. This is just
my current favorite take but I won’t argue its accuracy!
oh i pretty much agree. i think griffith definitely wanted to kill him there. not “wanted” as in so direct that if he, say, had a gun he would’ve shot him, but more “wanted” the way casca wanted to murder guts when he came back so spent a while swinging a sword with intent to kill but then kind of freaked out when she actually stabbed him.
if he had the physical ability to kill him there i don’t think he would’ve been able to go through with it, but yk, he would’ve probably strangled him for a few seconds before letting go
though i don’t think guts really noticed imo, because if he did i feel like… idk his interactions with griffith up til the eclipse would be different. guts would be more hesitant maybe, if griffith tried to physically lash out bc he blames him for his torture/emotional vulnerability that led to a year of torture, and guts realized that. He’s good at burying his feelings of guilt, but idk if he’s that good.
But ia that if he did notice then his reaction wouldn’t be like, outrage or anything, it would def be guilt.
this panel is quite literally berserk in a nutshell. like this is berserk’s conceit. guts, outside and visually separate/“othered” from society, alone in the dark and then griffith, bathed in light (surrounding him in a kind of halo-like glow actually) framed by the ornate windows and curving ballroom walls, with people surrounding him in awe and admiration. two completely totally dissonant settings, light vs dark, civilized vs wild, crowded with admirers vs isolated, yet the setting doesn’t matter to either, because they only have eyes for each other.
every time i remember wyald i feel ill. that whole … thing, with him, fucked me up irreparably. i can’t even talk about it tbh, it was such a pivotal, symbolic, eye-opening moment in berserk. there was nothing subtle about it. it screams in your face. it’s probably an unpopular opinion, but the shit with wyald hit me so hard that he earned the prestigious title of my most viscerally, whole-heartedly hated character for how simply he decimated any perceived hope in a time we all reallllly wanted some. silly us! what he symbolizes is a raw, mocking, absolutely merciless indifference to our friends, then laughs in our faces for daring to have hope. the whole encounter is barbaric and remorseless and goes beyond the beyond to drive the point home.
lol when i saw he was an unlockable character in berserk musou i shouted WHY??? i’m so … inherently offended about everything wyald represents. mmmh yknow i think it’s because (of all the obvious reasons, but also) its just … fucking sad. we were teased with griffith kinda idk, accepting that his dream was over and he was attempting moving on (and given his state? are you kidding me? he’s so fragile but even an inkling of moving on from this shows uncommon mettle—and i am certain that strength is generated in griffith by the sole comfort of being near guts again, bar-none). but of course, that pseudo comfort is shredded in a very drawn-out, brutal, obscene and obnoxious display of power—definitely to illustrate the contrast of the current lack of power, within the hawks. also very clearly illustrated here is that the overarching DREAM of the golden age is fucking over. it’s obliterated.
idk why i’m thinking about this but it sucks. like damn can griffith get a break? can casca go five pages without being assaulted? does miura just like drawing her nipples or some shit? why is any of this necessary right now? we as readers already get the significance and symbolism without casca being subject to it as well, like damn, why did miura love pointing out her weaknesses at every possible opportunity? sorry, tangent, this in particular makes my blood turn into lava
damn guts sure is contemplating on that phrase pretty intensely, it’s almost as if … as if … there’s something deeper here than subtext.
this is likely the first time anyone’s ever said they did deadass anything specifically for guts as far as we’re concerned, and it hits him pretty hard. for that alone i’m gonna venture a ‘yes it’s definitely a first for him’. he wouldn’t be musing melancholy alone on a fucking roof talking to the moon if this hadn’t shook him. in return, guts vows his sword–the only way he knows how to show he cares–his incredible talent, to griffith’s honor. it’s probably the only thing he’s ever found any self-worth in because he knows he’s great at it. this is significant imo because so many times we’ve seen him spit at anyone trying to reel him in or make him theirs … guts gives his allegiance to nobody. it’s a shame this vow was silent. if griffith had known this at all? berserk probably wouldn’t exist lmao.
furthering this significance is that he could’ve left the band of the hawk at anytime he wanted, had he chosen to (and wayyy before griffith became hopelessly dependent on him within that ~3 year period).
before griffith grabbed his damn face and told him he was wanted (implying that he was necessary, worthwhile, valuable–another first in his life, and all guts has ever wanted in his life … some kind of validation and kindness, a sign that he wasn’t completely fucking worthless), where previously guts never let anyone at all touch him.
oh boy lol. these aren’t in any particular order because i couldn’t ever choose an absolute fave (but if i had to it would probably be 5 or 1) theres some other good ones I didn’t put on here just because I feel like they’re more basic standard moments (ie. “do I need a reason?” and “do you think im cruel?”) bc i wanted to make this list semi interesting lol
1. right after I say I don’t wanna be basic i immediately put in the holy grail of griffguts lmao but i gotta include it bc its the most canonical point of griffguts ever. i can’t say much about it because it’s so straightforwardly gay. griffith, after a year of torture and hopelessness and clinging to the image of guts to help keep him sane, admits that after all, guts was more important to him than his dream. like pack it up and go home y’all we can analyze the relationship all we want but this is it
2. the whole hill of swords scene but especially these two moments
3. the sudden tonal shift between when griffith gives guts the karma sutra as a joke, guts sits down and they exist in the same comfortable silence a few moments, then griffiths face gets drawn and the symbol of new noble power (the stamp) is emphasized before they look at each other, and griffiths focus is forced away from the moment and moves into the next step in securing his dream. a moment that could have been just some quiet alone time turns into a strategy meeting. griffiths dream is, quite literally, getting in the way of him and guts.
4. cascas face says it all here. griffith tells her to make everyone withdraw, she gasps and then looks to see griffith anxiously peering out at injured guts, sword drawn, and knows she’s powerless to stop him. at this moment griffith probably knows he wont be able to beat zodd. he just wants to keep guts alive, or perhaps at the very least, die with him.
5. ok. imagine you’ve been mutilated, robbed of any free will and independence even just to move or speak, doomed to live a life dependent on other people that can’t even be cut short by suicide, because life or death is a choice you’ve been robbed of, too. and the guy who put you in this position, who you love and hate for making you love him, comes rushing towards you at your moment of greatest shame and despair. the guy who made you ruin your own life. the guy who you spent a year thinking of just to stay sane, who rescued you from the same hell he threw you into, who you tried to kill but couldn’t (during the choking in the tower), then tried to save (outstretched hand as guts falls during the eclipse), then tried to kill again but also couldn’t (reaching to kill him then stopping as skull knight carries him away). and after everything when all you want to do is not feel or care any longer, this guy who you were ready to die for comes after you again. and you can’t even move to get away or tell him how you feel, because your tendons are severed and your tongue is cut. this scene literally kills me
1. guts name is such a stereotypical 80s dark manga protags name it’s ridiculous, yet somehow it works. i think it’s because names like this aren’t commonplace in the world of berserk, we understand guts upbringing and that the man who would have most likely named him was a cruel mercenary who revelled in violence, and the oddness of his name is never really commented on or dwelled upon (to my memory). the names of characters in berserk are really unique – guts gets the most stereotypical edgy anime name, but im not mad about it because it’s dealt with well.
2. you can’t accurately gauge guts and griffith morally against each other because griffiths story is defined by a lack of choice. guts was never mutilated or rendered physically helpless like griffith was before the eclipse. he’s always had the opportunity to defend himself and fight. i plan on talking more about this in the future so I’ll leave it at that
3. the berserker armour looks stupid. im sorry lol it just does. like when it’s in it’s original skeletal shape or when the helm is closed off it’s fine, but at that point where it’s half-transformed into the beasts shape it just looks goofy.
4. guts isn’t a good person. he isn’t a hero, and he only fights for selfish reasons, not for a greater good. he kills children gleefully, tells a young girl to kill herself after torturing her father in front of her, treats casca like shit, and told another young girl to go back to her abusive family and town instead of doing the obviously more helpful thing and bringing her to godos house to stay with rickert and erica. guts is given wayyyyy too much credit in the fandom lol and he’s much more interesting as a morally grey damaged bitch than a hero.
5. guts doesn’t deserve casca. he doesn’t deserve a woman as a romantic prize for having suffered during his life. he’s sexually assaulted her and objectified her both in golden age and post eclipse, he’s lecherous and misogynistic toward her, and even now he doesn’t seem to care much about her actual feelings beyond using her as a reminder of the band of the hawk and a method of guilty self flagellating.
6. the beast of darkness isn’t some separate entity – it IS guts. it’s the manifestation of his deepest and darkest pain and the violent lash out against that trauma.
7. people tend to say guts is a great protagonist because he isn’t special, but i disagree. he blatantly is a very special person. he thwarts causality as the god hand know it, exists stuck between the astral and physical realm, wields a sword cursed with the blood of demons, has a special suit of armour, is bizarrely strong, is close to a being that’s an angel, god, demon overlord or what have you, etc etc. even in golden age guts was special because he was a renowned warrior and very obviously favoured by an extremely important figure, griffith. people say guts doesn’t have the “chosen one” narrative, but he does – he was chosen for sacrifice, which makes him special. he has a physical MARK on his body that makes him special. like idk where ppl seem to get it from that he’s not by any means a super strange and special guy lol
8. guts has distracted himself from his main quest of killing griffith using his new travelling party and casca because when he saw griffith on the hill of swords, he began to doubt whether he could really have it in him to kill griffith. just like when he left the band of the hawk for a year, his current quest to kill griffith is, under the surface, about getting griffith to look at him and acknowledge him again.
9. black swordsman arc guts is the best guts.
10. the tone of berserk isn’t nihilistic, and guts proves that. even at birth he struggled against the odds and managed to survive. he rejects the notion that life is meaningless because he knows much of it is preordained, and then fights against these preordained events to give his life meaning.
Yeah that’s a good point tbh. maybe the most fundamental fandom divide comes down to whether you blame griffith or miura for the eclipse rape lol. or yk, more expansively, whether you’re the type of person who responds to fiction as though the characters are real people with agency or as though they’re constructs
and that’s not meant to be judgemental, there’s nothing wrong with engaging w/ fiction the first way, it’s fun and lends itself well to fandom pursuits like fanfic. it just doesn’t lend itself to analysis or critique, so things can get awk when they criticize a character for doing offensive things but don’t really engage with how those offensive things are presented by the narrative.
(and this is a v common thing in fandom in general ime, not just berserk fandom)
like, is griffith problematic because he magically turned into a demon and raped casca, or is berserk problematic because he’s a gay coded lipstick wearing sexually predatory antagonist whose motivation for raping casca is strongly implied to be at least partly jealousy
1. he’s not a sociopath. i won’t get into it here because it will turn into a fucking thesis but it’s literally impossible for him to be a sociopath. his choice to sacrifice himself to gennon out of guilt and so that less people will die for him is one of many things that prove that.
2. yeah he’s like supernaturally beautiful but the best griff panels are the ones where he looks goofy
3. the fact that griffiths design is ripped from a female character in the prototype who’s set up as a platonic damsel for guts is very telling lol
4. griffith has a sense of humour, though he really only shares it with guts, and that’s super cute. when he uses this sense of humour with others as neogriffith and it comes off as strange and dissonant, it’s a very effective way of noting the change in how griffith is now perceived not only by the characters in his world but also us as an audience
5. griffith still has feelings, feelings that really only seem to manifest when it comes to guts, despite his heart being frozen over. from femto taunting guts to get a rise out of him during black swordsman arc to ngriffs heart beating, somewhere deep deep down the old griffith is peeking thru the cracks
6. imo ngriff is kind of boring lol. without us being able to see the internal conflict he had in golden age, the only real way to make him interesting is through interpretation and playing fast and loose w the story which im def guilty of if you’ve ever read my fanfic
7. some people like to focus a lot on where griffith came from and who his parents are. personally i don’t think it matters. heritage and family isn’t a huge value in berserk (in fact in most cases it’s treated as a negative) and the fact that both guts and griffith have mysterious origins is refreshing compared to the way most manga give their main characters these huge grand backgrounds. i feel the same about headcanons with zodd being guts dad or similar variations – why does it matter?
8. griffith cares about charlotte on some level. like he doesn’t love her obviously and she is just a method of class mobility for him but i don’t think he would do much to outright hurt her at this point. the way he mouthed “ill be back” after he’s rescued and they must run away, and the gentle way he’s treated her since the eclipse makes me think there’s not a whole lot of malicious intent going on. i don’t think he’ll turn on her like some ppl theorize
9. speaking of malicious intent: i don’t really think neogriff has done anything super horrible since being reborn? i could see falconia crumbling in a sort of tower of babel way or neogriff becoming restless and bored and somehow ruining it for himself but idk man. neogriff seems to be doing alright so far. guts has been more directly harmful to the world than griffith since the eclipse
10. sorry all these points are just building on what i said previously bc i can’t organize my thoughts for shit but… i think griffiths “king of longing” title goes two ways. most obviously i think ofc he longs after guts and to have his old life back, but also i think he will continue to use his dream to fill the void in himself (created by loneliness or self loathing or wanting to prove himself or whatever) to the point of self destruction. once griffith gets married and has the kingdom, what then? do you think he’ll be happy to just live a nice domestic life in the castle? i seriously doubt it. i think if it even gets to that point griffith will start trying to acquire more and more and it will be his emotional downfall
UGH i hate how entirely plausible this all is because it makes everything that’s already terrible even more tragic 😦 … and running with it being a possibility, it’d give guts a really bad association with his very thoroughly thwarted near-attempt at being purposefully affectionate towards griffith, possssibly even an acceptance of his own gayness. i know this is all just wild speculation but, jesus. ughhhhhhhhh it hurts.
oh man i kinda want to explore that now
like i always say the eclipse puts everyone’s potential character development on hold/cuts it down in its tracks, imagine if it also slammed the door shut on guts’ potential realization that he’s not straight
i mean it’s all there – the parallels to casca realizing she was in love with griffith when she stopped seeing him as a god, the realization that he fucked up because griffith was in love with him, guts taking this away from griffith’s sacrifice:
Like ending up burying a burgeoning realization about himself and his feelings fits right in here
(idt i ever posted it but i remember thinking once that guts’ post-eclipse character development would work so well if there was an element of him coming to terms with his sexuality. i think i was thinking about a hypothetical “what would change about the story of Berserk if all the subtext was intentional and going somewhere” angle lol. i bet that half baked thought is in my drafts somewhere.)
i was just about to say basically the same thing @chaoticgaygriffith did here lol … he needs that constant reminder of why he SHOULD hate griffith because he’s still so emotionally invested in him and it’s too easy for him to slide into pining and sadness over him. and guts has never seen the griffith /he/ knew do anything awful, so i imagine he has a really hard time accepting that femto=griffith, but lbr so do i, griffith was not cruel and miura is an asshole
yeah i mean considering neogriffith’s effect on him:
I feel like it’s pretty heavily suggested that part of why Guts is able to drop the revenge quest to take Casca to Elfhelm is because NeoGriffith showing up all hot and non demonic threw a bucket of cold water onto his rage boner and replaced it with a regular boner.
Like I will never, ever, ever get over how fucking sad Guts is about NeoGriffith ditching him lmfao, idk how anyone can look at that panel and think Guts feels nothing but hate for him now.
And yeah like Guts also separates human Griffith from Femto in his mind, like when he tells Rickert “that’s not the Griffith you know anymore” while remembering Femto. Which is another reason NGriff’s human appearance fucks him up, because it makes it harder for Guts to separate NGriff from human Griff.
@xiyyh said:
all of this! i agree.
guts saying/doing ANYTHING at this moment could’ve pushed him over the
edge imo. also just, ugh, griffith conversely loving and hating him
because of his dependence on guts for stability. not only stability tho
he’s fucking in love with him lol. so yeah griffith coming to terms with
his absolute need for guts (whether he likes it or not, & he does
not) during the same moment of guts realizing how bad he fucked up,
re-igniting griffith’s value in his own mind, hhhhhhh
and these parallels! my god. somehow berserk is constantly mirroring itself, it’s endlessly fascinating and infuriating
ALSO WRT your tags; lol i agree and i
don’t understand how anyone could read it any other way if i’m being
completely fucking honest
ty! it’s so good isn’t it, like the fact that griffith’s moment of pure despair was guts touching him is beyond amazing and so fun to think about. i just want to second what you said here.
but yeah, strong agree here. I do kind of wonder what Miura wanted to portray – like I definitely think it very much comes across in the story that he added their relationship entirely for the sake of fridging Casca to motivate Guts more (the fact that he admitted it is icing on the cake lol). But he also didn’t shove it in as a badly written last-minute true love story, he was very deliberate in showing that there were flaws there from the start, like Judeau pulling the strings, both rebounding from Griffith, both using sex as a distraction from their negative feelings, the jealousy during the rescue mission, Griffith still taking priority to Guts (and this holds true until after the Hill of Swords confrontation), Casca becoming Guts’ “sword,” their hookup helping enable Guts’ denial so he doesn’t realize he shouldn’t’ve left the Hawks until it’s too late, etc.
So idk bc to elicit the correct reaction from his readers during the Eclipse he had to make them invested in their relationship and Guts’ feelings for Casca, but he also doesn’t do a damn thing to make Guts feelings for Casca matter or affect his decisions or anything. So imo it ends up feeling awkwardly pasted on when we’re supposed to believe they have strong feelings for each other, and the rest of the time it feels deliberately portrayed as negative.
(Like I’ve pointed out before, but a good example of this is the way Guts decides he screwed up before and wants to stay with Griffith this time while talking with Judeau, before consulting with Casca. It would’ve been so easy to have him decide while talking to Casca, showing that what she chooses to do also affects his decision, but nope. Too bad for Casca if she really wanted to leave with Guts, Guts is sticking with Griffith now.)
I do not, but this is a good question and one I’m also curious about. I can say that the anime replaced it with “love” (whether the word itself changed or the translation, idk) so it wouldn’t surprise me if it sounds just as suggestive in japanese as in english, or more so.
@chaoticgaygriffith no pressure to answer this, but do you have any insight on the word? (i’m sure you know exactly the page we’re talking about but just in case, chapter 49)
And actually while I’m wondering about this I’ve always been curious, is it the same word Ganeshka uses on this page? (chapter 282)
the word used is 飢餓感 (きがかん／kigakan) which can mean either hunger literally or hunger as in a strong desire/wish for something
and seeing as how griffith was listing emotions here, moreso than physical sensations (although some emotions–like pain, or you could say even all of them ig–are at the same time physical sensations), i would argue that he meant the latter
though it’s probably unclear on purpose, or it’s like clever wordplay of sorts since he’s literally in pain and starved and also additionally emotionally in pain and starved
and no sadly it’s not the same word ganishka used (he used 飢え渇く／うえかわく／uekawaku) but i don’t think that means there’s no parallel to be drawn here
tyvm for the response! sounds like it basically has the same connotation of saying you feel hunger while thinking about someone in english.
i def don’t think he meant literal hunger since he’s listing feelings specifically for guts, but i like the idea that it could be deliberate wordplay (along with pain) to yk compare the torture to being without guts/his feelings for guts. which would be very fitting imo.
i’ve always thought it looked like guts wanted to kiss him here too lmao … and like … ha i know it’s completely impossible but look at griffs face tho. he’s like “NOW?? now guts? really?” then the behelit opens cause griffs just “OH /NOW/ YOU’RE GAY?”
hmm lol it’s likely total crap but it’s quite an interesting thing to ponder. cause imo miura is/was preettttyyy clear in his portrayal of expressional intent�� i don’t want to allow myself to believe this but to me it rly looks like that lmao
this is hot on the heels of guts fully
accepting his role in griffith’s (insert everything here) … i can only
imagine what would’ve happened if guts had an opportunity to say
something to him. he is probably at a loss for words, and all that
emotional buildup is trying to escape through his eyes lol .. god, griff
has no idea why guts is so emotional right here now that i think of it
🤔🤔🤔 guts showing emotions for him during this breakdown is a very
plausible thing to push him over the edge 😮
i like it lol i think i’ll keep it
good content
ok for real the way i see griffith’s moment of despair being guts’ touch is that it’s griffith’s final moment of understanding that he is never gonna get unfucked by his feelings. he desperately, desperately needs guts and there’s no possibility of living without him anymore. if guts left, griffith would mentally waste away like in his nightmare, if guts stayed griffith would exist entirely for his presence.
so like the way griffith shifted from wanting to strangle guts to holding his hand in the torture chamber when guts started crying for him, when guts touches him with that emotion on his face griffith is like, fuck i can’t hate him, i can’t separate myself, and the behelit opens.
i mean more powerfully than i’ve written lol, but that’s like, the gist imo.
so basically i completely agree.
ALSO wrt the possibility of Guts wanting to kiss him, I’m just gonna say:
idk Guts what did you do last time someone attempted suicide in front of you?
yesss the moment of the sacrifice probably is my second favourite scene too. and also special mention to guts’ monologue about how he wants griffith to look at him.
and it’s true even those brief meetings/eyes meeting across a plain lol have such a weight to them because of both how miura portrays those scenes and because of their history informing them. like there’s a reason guts keeps thinking about griffith on that hill now even though he was barely a speck on the horizon to him. their connection is just that intense.
you're the only one 