Tag: not lb

mastermistressofdesire:

@yesgabsstuff  :- I think a part of the reason it hit him as hard as it did was because he had just returned from a situation that had badly triggered thoughts of his father and himself when he was younger. His fear of being abandoned and lied to where at the forefront of his mind at the time.


Yeah definitely. I also find it so beautifully heartbreaking to consider that his reaction to having his unpleasant memories with Gambino triggered was to immediately seek out Griffith for what I think was some form of comfort. (I feel this may tie into @bthump ‘s parallels between Gambino and Griffith ) His fear of being abandoned and lied to were at the forefront of his mind so he decided to go to the one person who he thought wouldn’t abandon or lie to him, at least for the time-being.

And what he Got was a huge slap in the face, based on what he took away from the speech.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Casca hadn’t stopped Guts at the bottom of the stairs, what if Guts had just barged up there anyway. I’m pretty sure Griffith would have taken one look at Guts, apologised to Charlotte and left with Guts.

I’d actually love to see minific of that possible interaction.

But imagine, no fountain speech.

I would looove to see that AU. I never thought of it before but I totally agree that Griffith would’ve absolutely abandoned Charlotte for Guts. When Guts or his needs are immediately in front of him it’s like Griffith can’t not choose him over the dream (which is one reason why I think the scene during the Eclipse where Guts lets go of Griffith’s hand is so significant, but I digress).

And I love the way you tied Guts seeking Griffith out back to his Gambino issues. That makes so much sense to me.

honestly im the same i dont have a specific dream finale because i just cant see where the story is going. all i really want is griffith and guts relationship to have an emotional resolution and maybe for them to die together bc im a sucker for my otps doing that and being codependent as hell (imagine them stabbing each other in the chest with their lips only a few breaths apart or guts stabbing griffith while griffith cradles guts head like he did during their first duel tho…fuck)

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

YES I’m a sucker for this kind of soulmatey hero/villain tragedy that leads to them dying together, I’d love that.

Also I want to see both their swords added to the Hill of Swords. I would cry and it would be beautiful and cathartic.

I really want Berserk’s ending to be able to make me cry.

Honestly Guts finding out that Griffith has been bthump-ing for him this whole time is kind of almost a requirement.

I had this headcanon where through some shierke/ sonia trying something Guts gets a chance to get inside Griffith’s mindscape. And Guts meets baby Griffith from the earlier flashbacks and the child is curled up shut in a small room and he’s too afraid to go out because it’s all just a dark chasm outside the room and it’s scary and painful. And here we have Guts trying to deal with his mixed feeling and trying to  hunt down the bits of Griffith from the void of femto. And Griffith himself panicking and trying to get him to get out. But Guts reaches all those memories and he’s freaking out to now because he realises the enormity of their initial misunderstanding. 

It’a a pretty long thing.

In the end Griffith dies because his bthumping causes him to once again act irrationally for Guts sake. And Guts is left holding the remains and knowing he’s never ever going to get over this.

I want psychic mindscape fuckery so bad you have no idea. so bad omg.

dicks-out-for-griffith:

Some rambling, based on this post by bthump ♥

Guts has always been so hungry for love and somehow, I think this has always been his dream from the start – to have someone want HIM, not necessarily his fighting skill whatsoever, but someone to appreciate him as a person, to trust him, to care for him, to watch his back, to just give a damn. I think Guts too had to make himself strong (just like Griffith), so he could survive in a world, where nobody gave horse shit for a young unfortunate boy. He sought love and attention in Gambino, he so much longed for the affection of his so called father, but he only ever got the opposite. Once Gambino died, Guts sort of lost himself, he belonged nowhere, so he would fight his way through the lands of the world and live day for day.

But then Griffith came along – a boy who knew nothing of Guts, yet was ready to fight to make him his. And even if Guts was irritated by it (and in his ears, none of what Griffith said probably made sense), I think in the end, we wanted to feel as if he actually belonged somewhere – and Griffith became this ‘somewhere’. Hell, it took one gesture to render Guts speechless and make him ‘obey’ (because I can’t believe he would have stayed, only cuz he lost a duel if he hated the idea of it)- it was a chance to finally get, what he wanted the most in the world – someone, who actually cared for him.

And after the Zodd encounter, we see him watch the moon, remember Griffith saying he has put himself in harm’s way for his sake and he is pondering if this is the answer he has been looking for all along. And the question is stated few chapters back, when we see the little Guts lie on the ground, after having killed Gambino – where is he going if the world has nothing good to offer? But maybe Griffith’s care and affection is this ‘good’ he longs for.

So he eventually leaves – because he wants to EARN his place by Griffith’s side – he isn’t simply aiming for a home, for warmth, he wants more – just like Griffith. Guts’s dream is, in a way, to stand by Griffith’s side and to be worthy of the care and affection Griffith has given him and not be eventually ‘left behind’ by the hawk, who always aims so high. Because by Griffith’s side is where he wants to be the most.

Another thing I would like to add is, that I don’t think Guts was unaware of Griffith’s feelings, I think in a way, he always knew. Which is I think he is rather shown to feel guilty, whenever Casca confronts him about it, than actually deny it. I think he felt guilty to be a special person to Griffith, even though he didn’t do anything to deserve it, while Casca made this her dream and fought for it. And when she told him about her life and how she came to fight for Griffith, the realisation hit even harder. He didn’t feel as if he would lose Griffith’s affection if he stayed, I think he believed he had already lost it and had to gain it back by becoming his equal.

Do you remember Frikka from the Berserk prototype chapter?

mastermistressofdesire:

Yeah. So the obvious observation about her is that she shares her character design with Griffith. And not many other character similarities.

But i feel like Kentaro Miura has sort of reused elements of her character in the final version of the manga as well. Most of all in the lost children arc with Jill.

both are little girls who Guts encounters in his ‘black swordsman’ phase and almost unintentionally rescues. They develop a sort of admiration bordering on an innocent crush on him. And then guts later fights an apostle who they are under threat from. and then he leaves. And we do get a lot more about Jill than Frikka but I still sort of wonder about the similarities.

I also see elements of Frikka in some of Casca’s early characterization. Something to do with the similarity of imagery and this acceptance of what their fate maybe- regardless of how unpleasant it is.

And then there’s this guy

So the first time I read the Berserk Prototype I almost immediately dismissed any actual similarities in character between the two – except of course for the massive crush on Guts- mostly because Frikka stood out to me as a rather submissive character and that was a word i’d never use to describe Griffith. So Griffith is a lot of contradictory seeming things. Cold and affectionate, moral and immoral, terrifying and adorable, dark and light and yet within dominant and submissive he is dominant and dominant . There isn’t a single submissive bone in his body whatsoever.

But there is this one panel which stood out to me.

And for the strangest reason this reminded me of this( i don’t even know why)

This strange sort of dissociation from the situation. doing the math. At the end of the day a girl will be tortured and killed. At the end of the day soldiers will die. How does it matter which girl or which action prevents this.

It’s a strange sort of selflessness which infact removes the burden of witness through a form of depersonalisation.

thoughtsfromaheart:

neutroisenjolras:

if you ever try to befriend me and you expect to be in frequent contact with me i am so sorry. i do that with maybe two people and even then i often go days or weeks withouts saying anything before talking daily for a while. 

the point is if we dont talk that doesnt mean i dont like u and think about u a lot im just terrible at maintaining close relationships

fun fact guts has always had a dream and it’s not “fight tough dudes at exhibitions” or “fight monsters” or “avenge the hawks” or “be the best at the sword”

griffith’s dream:

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guts’ dream:

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guts’ dream:

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guts’ dream:

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guts’ dream:

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which is why this is so utterly cutting:

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and why this just left guts totally dejected and made him give up that dream:

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and why if guts finds out that griffith’s heart is bthumping for him that’s going to be either a serious game-changer, or a serious test of guts’ resolve in moving on from his dream.

everytime i try to imagine an ending for berserk i cant come up with anything solid because miura completely subverted the good/evil trope. like you got an antag whos actually the messiah and acting out god and humanitys will/desires while the protag isnt fighting for any greater good but merely for revenge. if guts ends up killing griffith then what the hell happens? does god die too and the wheel of fate get broken? what would exactly constituite a satisfactory ending for this story to you?

dicks-out-for-griffith:

bthump:

Same, this is a real problem for me because I like trying to predict things, but I just can’t with Berserk lol.

I feel like he could swing an ending where somehow the Idea of Evil/Fate in general is like… defeated by humanity, who, thanks to whatever, would now rather struggle in an uncaring universe than blame all their problems on God. But I feel like that’s kind of unlikely because, idk, it just feels a little too big of a metaphysical change and too positive of a take on humanity for Berserk.

Honestly for me if Griffith does something irrational because he (not the damn fetus that’s a red herring as far as I’m concerned) still feels those pesky life-ruining emotions for Guts, and in turn Guts demonstrates his mixed-feelings towards Griffith in a powerful way, I’ll consider myself satisfied. Basically I’m thinking a 3rd duel (assuming Guts’ brand of sacrifice, which removes him a little from fate according to Skull Knight, means he can potentially hurt Griffith) where emotions are at their peak.

I’ve also vaguely considered an ending where Guts lets Griffith stab him, because he has a bad habit of doing that when he’s feeling conflicted about killing someone, or when he’s confronted with something that makes him feel guilty (in this case, the memories of human Griffith and their first two duels). In this scenario Griffith would be shocked because he expected Guts to block or w/e a la that time Casca stabbed him, and maybe have a breakdown beside his corpse.

I have a whole long speculative post here too but I can’t commit myself to one perfect ending lol, there’s so many possibilities. At the end of the day I just want that heavy emotional GutsGriff drama.

Another perfect ending i have thought of is Griffith dying by someone else’s hand. And Guts arriving there too late, wanting to actually fight Griffith himself, but once he gets there, Griffith is already gone – probably even turned back to his broken state before the eclipse. And all that’s left of him is his body. Guts sees it and cannot handle it – he didn’t even have the chance to put all that happened behind himself and seeing Griffith so destroyed makes him completely break down, eventually let the Beast take over completely to not feel the pain any longer. He eventually gets killed by Casca or Serpico. Happy ending!

Nice! And with this inspiration, I just want to throw out: what if Casca does it? Say she goes apostle or gets a power up and is pissed off and leaves to avenge herself. And you have Guts going after her, not sure whether he wants to help Casca, or stop her to save her soul from the ravages of revenge, or stop her because he wants to kill Griffith himself, or stop her because he still doesn’t fully want Griffith to die. But he’s too late.

honestly im the same i dont have a specific dream finale because i just cant see where the story is going. all i really want is griffith and guts relationship to have an emotional resolution and maybe for them to die together bc im a sucker for my otps doing that and being codependent as hell (imagine them stabbing each other in the chest with their lips only a few breaths apart or guts stabbing griffith while griffith cradles guts head like he did during their first duel tho…fuck)

YES I’m a sucker for this kind of soulmatey hero/villain tragedy that leads to them dying together, I’d love that.

Also I want to see both their swords added to the Hill of Swords. I would cry and it would be beautiful and cathartic.

everytime i try to imagine an ending for berserk i cant come up with anything solid because miura completely subverted the good/evil trope. like you got an antag whos actually the messiah and acting out god and humanitys will/desires while the protag isnt fighting for any greater good but merely for revenge. if guts ends up killing griffith then what the hell happens? does god die too and the wheel of fate get broken? what would exactly constituite a satisfactory ending for this story to you?

Same, this is a real problem for me because I like trying to predict things, but I just can’t with Berserk lol.

I feel like he could swing an ending where somehow the Idea of Evil/Fate in general is like… defeated by humanity, who, thanks to whatever, would now rather struggle in an uncaring universe than blame all their problems on God. But I feel like that’s kind of unlikely because, idk, it just feels a little too big of a metaphysical change and too positive of a take on humanity for Berserk.

Honestly for me if Griffith does something irrational because he (not the damn fetus that’s a red herring as far as I’m concerned) still feels those pesky life-ruining emotions for Guts, and in turn Guts demonstrates his mixed-feelings towards Griffith in a powerful way, I’ll consider myself satisfied. Basically I’m thinking a 3rd duel (assuming Guts’ brand of sacrifice, which removes him a little from fate according to Skull Knight, means he can potentially hurt Griffith) where emotions are at their peak.

I’ve also vaguely considered an ending where Guts lets Griffith stab him, because he has a bad habit of doing that when he’s feeling conflicted about killing someone, or when he’s confronted with something that makes him feel guilty (in this case, the memories of human Griffith and their first two duels). In this scenario Griffith would be shocked because he expected Guts to block or w/e a la that time Casca stabbed him, and maybe have a breakdown beside his corpse.

I have a whole long speculative post here too but I can’t commit myself to one perfect ending lol, there’s so many possibilities. At the end of the day I just want that heavy emotional GutsGriff drama.

GRIFFITH’s ARMOUR

mastermistressofdesire:

in the golden age always looked too big to me. I think there was this colour illustration once where they were all sitting around a campfire. and griffiths profile was in the foreground and he looked much much skinnier than the impression he gave whenever we usually see him in  armour. 

I wonder if it was a deliberate thing. To make himself look bigger?

i remember seeing a post somewhere about Griffith’s flashback armour with musculature details and how it thematically fits with Casca’s statement that Griffith is ultimately a weak human who has to make himself strong for his dream. Anyway i totally agree with you, the other armour fits that idea too, if less overtly.

I wrote Berserk fanfic (Badly)

mastermistressofdesire:

inspired by au art by Gyodragon which sort of made the berserk universe the plot of a movie.

This is sort of weird and unedited but -here, have it regardless.

Oh right and I thought it would be funny if the actor’s personalities didn’t match the characters (atleast on the surface). So ooc warning I guess.

But their names are still the same.


Griffith sprawled across the bench, faux-leather covered
helmet in one hand, fanning himself with a clipboard as he waited for someone
to come and help him out of the sweaty, full-body costume he had had to wear
for the scene. He held out the hand holding the clipboard in front of him for a
moment, examining the detailed acrylic talons.

The bench creaked a little as Guts came and sat down beside
him. He had already changed into sweatpants and slung a towel around his
shoulders, choosing to forgo a shirt as usual.

Griffith sighed and scooted away a little.

Guts raised an eyebrow and proceeded to close the distance.

Griffith turned to him with an annoyed glare. “Don’t sit so
close to me! It’s fucking boiling in here.”

Guts smirked but obediently moved away a little. “Maybe it’s
just me.”

“Is that honestly the best you can do?”

“No. But I can demonstrate the best I can do if you give me a time and a place.”

“Honestly, after the scene we just shot could you please lay
off the innuendos for a little bit?”

Guts inclined his head and leaned back away, looking at him
sideways with a slightly thoughtful expression. “Yeah. You seemed sort of
bothered today. Made more mistakes than usual too.”

Griffith leaned forward, resting his elbows on his knees, a
slight crease between his brows.He went over the words again in his head- than usual. “Wouldn’t anyone be? It’s really quite
disturbing. I honestly never paid attention to  this part of the script when they signed me up
for this project.” He bit his lip before continuing, “This is the first time
I’ve shot something I don’t want my mother to see. She’s going to be so upset … didn’t want me to take up this show right from the
beginning.”

Guts scoffed “See, I get it about the scene being dark and
all but I honestly don’t get the deal with your mother. If she doesn’t like it
she doesn’t like it. So what? You’re old enough to make your own decisions and
if she isn’t down with that, then that’s her problem.”

Griffith didn’t respond, just shook his head weakly.

He raised himself up and looked up at Guts for a moment
before staring at his hands again. “No it’s not that. I understand what she
means. It’s just that this is so different from the sort of things I usually do
that she thinks the image change might affect my employability.”

Guts raised an eyebrow. “No offence dude but the sort of
stuff you usually do is sort of crappy. When we started here, I was afraid of
touching you for fear of causing violins to go off in the background.”

Griffith laughed a little. “ You don’t like violins?”

“Make my ears bleed. Screechy little things.”

Griffith grinned. “ You’ve never actually been to a proper
recital, have you?” He stretched a little, as much as the body suit would allow-
before leaning back on one hand. “The thing about all those roles is that they
were easy, pleasant. There was no need to exert yourself, to change the way you
think and walk. No fear of slipping too far into a character. So simple . So
chaste. Just gentle romance. Maybe a fight scene here and there. The fans were
wonderful too. Adoring and devoted.”

Guts expression softened as he was speaking, eyes narrowing
with a brief hint of worry towards the end. “You hated every moment of it
didn’t you?”

Griffith started and jerked himself upright, facing him with a look of
surprise. “What makes you think that?”

Guts hesitated a little, biting the edge of his lip momentarily. “Just something in your face.” He
saw Griffith begin to open his mouth to respond  and sped forward. “Actually there’s something
I’ve been meaning to ask you for sometime now- ”

“Hey Guts! I thought I’d asked you to not take the
prosthetics off on your own.”

They turned around to see Judeau from costuming saunter up
to the bench with his giant green work bag.

Guts frowned a little at being inturrupted but grinned when
he saw Judeau. “Sorry they were itchy as hell, couldn’t help peeling them off.”

“Finally.” Griffith groaned and stood up so that Judeau  could begin to take the costume apart piece
by piece. By the time he was done Griffith was left  wearing
the rather sweat soaked  T-shirt and shorts he had been wearing under the costume all
along.

“Should I remove the makeup for you too or will you do that
on your own?” Judeau asked pointing at Griffith’s eyes.

“ It’s okay I can do it myself.” Griffith dipped his head, pulling
his hair back into a ponytail. He leaned over to look at Judeau’s watch. “Ah
shit. It’s already pretty late. I’ll
head back after this. See you guys tomorrow.”

As he watched him go Guts wondered when he’d get a chance to
ask about the bruises he’d seen in the green room three days ago.

dicks-out-for-griffith:

Them:

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Me:

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wait wait wait I was going to say that I like that Guts can’t finish his sentence bc he wants to call Griffith his friend but yk the whole source of the drama is that he feels like he can’t…

but isn’t that the scene with Zodd? Where there’s absolutely no reason for him not to finish that sentence with “friend”? So the fact that he trailed off and failed to define their relationship is actually super gay, js.

do you ever think about how griffith and guts haven’t interacted or even seen each other in like 19 volumes except in the last case for that moment before guts and co sailed to elfhelm and get super sad but also marvel at how the ship is still going strong canon-wise

God I know right? Like they’ve been separated for 20 real world years, aside from one brief meeting and that one meeting-each-other’s-eyes-from-across-a-distance moment and Guts has spent a large chunk of that time trying to forget him, but GriffGuts still feels hugely relevant.

I guess because the readers know they have to meet again (I mean could you imagine the story fizzling out with Guts deciding to retire in Elfhelm while Griffith rules the world lmao? No GriffGuts reunion, no epic climax) and we keep getting these occasional hints from the story that they’re nowhere near finished with each other emotionally, even as their current narratives have nothing to do with each other.

Guts has his temporarily chained inner beast still haunting him and threatening to take over and hunt Griffith down, and every few volumes the subject of Griffith comes back up to make him feel things and periodically remind the reader that it’s not over (the RPG group gossiping about the old Band of the Hawk, Laban asking
after him, meeting apostles and knowing Griff is nearby, witches in
Elfhelm asking after him, etc)

And on Griffith’s end we have that beating heart, and imo every volume of Griffith narrative we get where that’s conspicuously not brought up again and yet implied by the pointed ambiguity of Griffith’s emotional state (gorgeous portrait at the end of Sonia’s chapter on loneliness, serenity contrasting with transformed Ganeshka’s panicked loneliness, letting Rickert slap him, the question of who sent Raksas after him, etc), is just more tension added that will make the moment we do get to learn about Griffith’s emotions extra satisfying.

tbh structurally the way Miura showed Griffith’s pov as his heart was unfreezing, and then for every subsequent part of Griffith’s narrative gave us absolutely no information on his internal emotional state, and human Griffith’s downfall (and the thing that kept being brought up over and over and over and over again during the Golden Age) was his irrationality caused by his feelings for Guts – it just makes me intrinsically feel that we’re heading for something big. It’s a tease for a reason.

i like to think guts rolled his eyes and just fucking disliked the nobles lol guts:”y’all dumb. truly dumb” especially at the ball he was like “pls i don’t want to be here i hate these people lol”

that’s pretty much canon imo. he only went to one noble function and he avoided everyone while he was there. plus he ignored propriety all the time, like trying to walk in on Griffith while noblemen were visiting him in the hospital, only kneeling for the king when Griffith told him to, and angrily “hey pal”ing the king’s brother when he slapped Griffith lol.

oh also one of my favourite moments at Farnese’s family’s ball:

cue farnese saying, “wait a minute please, all my family are here in this place.”

lmao

Gambino vs Griffith

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

Time to finally lay out my thoughts on these parallels and contrasts between Gambino, Griffith and Femto/NeoGriff.

Ok so starting with Human Golden Age 100% Certified Organic Griffith, even tho the parallels start off strong in the Black Swordsman arc, whatever, we’ll go chronologically.

Keep reading

So I remember saying that I had many thoughts on this but going back an examining them I found that pretty much all of that was mostly just me agreeing with the things you had already gone over in your post.

One thing though, Guts visualising Griffith in the moon is kind of a very interesting image for me. Because we have two other strong instances of similar imagery. The night Guts kills Gambino and at the end of Run he makes from Godo’s cave post-eclipse. In both cases he’s down, flat on his back, exhausted, doubting everything he’s ever known, not having any particular desire to go on.

And just then he looks up at the moon, and slowly pulls himself up again.

The presence of the moon almost seems to galvanise his actions and light up the way for him. Guts in that moment, seeing Griffith’s face in the moon and dedicating his current life path to him kinda seems like a symbolic extension of this fact.

Actually It’s interesting how Griffith is visualised in Guts head as to do with sources of lights, On the stairs of promrose hall he appears like a beacon, visualised as light at the end of the tunnel, as an inferno, as the moon, campfires, “Dazzling”, “burns so bright”.

Guts is one of the maybe only characters who has never compared Griffith to inanimate things or commodities- Never a doll, painting, statue, fine wine, idol or sculpture.

Fires are quite alive.

Nice! I’ve been checking out the moon imagery as I read and scratching my head ngl. I feel like the full moon represents fulfillment of some kind. Magic is at its strongest, moonlight kid shows up, Guts finds the will to keep going, Guts dedicates his sword to Griffith, etc.

Conversely, the eclipse is technically a new moon, and non-full moons appear prominently occasionally during signficant moments like Guts and Griffith’s last assassination together, Sonia’s chapter on loneliness, Rosine flying back home and dying, Ganeshka leveling up to Eldrich Abomination status (”on a night when you can’t see the moon”), etc

But idk it’s not completely consistent or anything and it’s nothing I can draw conclusions from.

Also gooooood point about Griffith as a source of light to Guts I don’t have anything to add to that, but it’s perfect.

strangemonochromes:

Berserk (ベルセルク) // Kentaro Miura

lol i seriously love this

like a traditional narrative would have guts going on his fix casca sidequest, which is overall framed as A Good Thing, succeeding, and then getting a reward at the end in the form of a loving sane gf because he Did Good.

Berserk instead fills it with ominous foreshadowing because yeah Guts is growing as a person and trying to do good, but it’s not that simple. When he first chose Casca over Griffith he was a huge danger to her and he needed companions to mitigate that danger, and she’s still afraid of him. Guts’ motives are also in question – for one it’s suggested that he’s being selfish in trying to fix Casca because he’s not taking her needs into account (”That’s right, she went to pieces because she can’t fully cope with it. What will she do if she does get her sanity back?”), and for another, he was still planning to ditch Casca again right up until Griffith showed up and soundly rejected him, suggesting that part of his motivation for trying to move on from his obsession with Griffith is straight up spite.

Nothing in Berserk is ever simple and pure and uncomplicated. No motive, no goal, no relationship, no emotion.

Guts is overall doing a whole lot better than he was during the Black Swordsman revenge rampage fiasco. He’s made new friends, he’s subdued his inner beast for now, he’s maturing, etc. But the same was true of Guts during the Golden Age. I don’t think anything as bad as the Eclipse is going to go down, but the way Berserk rolls, you don’t get an A for Effort. Guts had a very noble goal when he chose to leave the Hawks, and it was still a mistake.

Guts has learned from his mistakes enough to recognize that friends are more important than stupid dreams and he’s embodying that lesson now, but I suspect there’s a new one waiting around the corner: not just ‘you can’t force back what was lost’ but ‘if you try anyway be prepared for the consequences.’

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woah woah woah i just realized i called that panel of sexy guts a griffith point of view shot but it isn’t, he can’t even see his face. But in the context of the shot reverse shot set-up (Griffith’s eyes, followed by what he’s actually seeing, followed by a closeup of Guts looking sexy actually from Casca’s pov, followed by what he’s actually seeing again, followed by Griffith’s eyes again) it’s an even clearer indication that he’s jealous of Casca and wants to be her in that moment imo. Like that shot of sexy Guts is a v straightforward visual depiction of desire centred so wholly between Griffith’s gaze that it feels like what he’s imagining she sees.

And the panel directly after it visually emphasizes Griffith’s removal and distance from them. Like damn the longing is palpable.

@griffithhell

bc this is basically an addition to my reply to you, i just didn’t add it to the original post bc it was getting long and yk my point is still the same.

griffithhell:

bthump:

yesgabsstuff:

mastermistressofdesire:

Was I the only one who thought they might actually kiss in this scene the First time you ever saw/ read it? Because I did . I was ready to react. I was about to go on all those sites and say. “ YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD FOOL ME INTO THINKING THIS WAS NOT GAY. I WAS NOT FOOLED. I ALWAYS KNEW!! “

But it never happened.

And I was like “oh” as I calmly shut the page I’d just opened to rant and go nuts on.

So, I thought Griffith would go for a kiss after taking Guts’ face in his hand and saying he belonged to him forever and ever. This scene also is a good place for it.

If this were a man and a woman everyone and their mother would be making gif sets of this and saying how they were so close to kissing after having the “what is this relationship” talk only to be interrupted by the plot. They would be doing this even if they never verbally said their feelings and everyone would accept it as a fact because straight people.

i never thought they’d kiss because I never expect anything I really want to happen lol. but like, this scene is as romantic as you can get without a kiss. if one of them was a woman people would call you delusional for suggesting their feelings are platonic lmao, like:

gentle breeze wafting griffith’s long hair across his face? check
declaration of feelings while looking away followed by a turn and hard eye contact? check
awkward, surprised response? check
inconvenient interruption? checkmate

going back to the manga but you cannot look at these panels and then tell me with a straight face that we’re supposed to think their feelings are brotherly or whatever:

and yk what while i’m on this and since yesgabsstuff brought up the duel, you don’t have your characters ask each other if they’re gay, fail to confirm or deny, and say things like, “if you win you can have my sword or my ass,” if you’re not trying to point the audience in a certain direction.

it’s subtext, but it’s like, Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence style subtext, where it’s not just a nice bonus if u recognize the symbolism or the gay audience reaching bc we’re desperate, but it’s the clear intended reading.

In fact, I’ll go one further – the very first parallel we have for Guts and Griffith, the first example we’re given to contextualize the mysterious, intense relationship between Guts and Griffith/Femto and the nature of the sacrifice – which we already know is what happened between them – is the Count and his wife. “The person you loved the most and hated the most!” Cue that shot of Femto looking slightly over his shoulder so there can be no doubt who also buried his fragile human heart.

(like i just re-read this scene and i love it so much because everything leading up to these panels exists to make the audience go “what the fuck is their deal?” like puck even directly asks “what happened between those two?” And then we get the Count’s story and it’s like, ohhh ok i guess they were in love at one point and then betrayal and despair followed and now one’s a demon and one’s really pissed off. gotcha. And then nothing in the golden age disabuses you of that notion.)

(ps “That’s right… you couldn’t do it. You couldn’t cut away half of yourself.” The Godhand to the Count. “[…]And that unkingly half of yours shall all be gathered then in that place.” Skull Knight to Guts.)

Oh my god, thank you so much for adding that, because, honestly, that chapter with the Count has got to be my favourite instance of foreshadowing in every medium ever. Not only does it explain the relationship between Griffith and Guts (almost explicitly), but it also tells us right away that Griffith must have cared for all the other members of the Band of the Hawk. If he hadn’t, he wouldn’t have been able to offer them as a sacrifice in the first place. Which is kind of unrelated to the point you’re making, but you can just tell that this entire thing with the Count went right over some people’s heads because they 1. insist there’s nothing between Griffith and Guts and 2. are convinced that Griffith had been planning to sacrifice his comrades all along, or at least did it without regrets when the opportunity presented itself.

It’s sad that all this brilliant writing goes almost intentionally unnoticed by so many people in this fandom.

That said, just for the fun of it, I’d like to add my favourite inexplicably gay scene to this post:

(excuse the gutsca)

Look at that poorly hidden jealousy, I’m dying.

Yesss I love this moment too. Like, look at that Griffith POV shot of Guts. Look at how utterly eroticized it is. lbr here Griffith isn’t angry because Guts and Casca getting together third wheels him or deprives him of power over them or whatever other awful no homo explanations I’ve heard, Griffith is extremely jealous and straight up wishing he was that cloth.

also 2nding everything you said about the Count chapter. It pains me that so many people skip over the Black Swordsman arc or disregard it when it sets everything up so perfectly.

Griffith’s smiles are very painful to see.

mastermistressofdesire:

Right from early golden age I’ve noticed Griffith has a tendency to sort of face painful situations with this smile. And in each case this expression comes immediately after a panel in which he has a very somber expression. You can  see him steeling himself to put it on in that panel. You can almost see the transition from sad understanding to this false wall of- “Don’t mind it. Everything will be okay!”

This just hits me in the gut every single time. Everytime I see this panel I just feel so goddamn emotional. Because somehow in this moment you feel the burden that he feels. 

And this picture just says it all. It’s finally a corporal representation of what has most probably been going on so long. The complete dichotomy between his words and the gory bleeding arms. And this makes me so sad and yet any less and neither Berserk nor Griffith’s character would be the masterpiece that it is today.

Hi im reading berserk for the 1st time and im a little bit confused about farnese and serpicos relationship. i know that after serpico found out theyre half siblings he said their relationship became merely a mistress-servant one or smth but tbh it seems to me he still feelings for farnese (see: the manga focusing on his reaction after finding out farnese and roderick are engaged,him blushing when seeing farnese naked after she took a bath etc)? meanwhile farnese feelings seem to have (contd)

mastermistressofdesire:

farnese-de-vandimion:

mastermistressofdesire:

mastermistressofdesire:

(contd) snuffed out (ironically so considering shes the one who doesnt know theyre related). basically: do you think that serpico and farnese are still reespectively knowingly and unknowingly incesting lmao?


That’s a pretty solid observation to be honest.

Hmm…I personally don’t think they are presently mutually incesting exactly. Because as you said Farnese’s interests have since shifted from the moment she ran into his arms as a teenager.

I think Farnese seeking out relationships had been for the longest time a way for her to find a meaning to herself and her own identity. Serpico was the first person in her life who seemed to have some sort of permanence in her life ( contrast with her ever absent parents and frequently changing maids and caretakers) and she was afraid of losing that and wanted to secure it.

I don’t think her offering herself naked to Serpico had anything to do with romantic attraction to him, she was rather using it as a bargaining chip to try and convince him to stay.(Stay with her and leave with her) Farnese is aware that she is hard to be around, she has scared off scores of people before, and she’s aware that she has since treated Serpico in less than kind ways, maybe because she wanted to test if he too, like everyone else would eventually leave.

But now that he hasn’t, she realises she doesn’t want him to. And she wants to give him an incentive to stay. Offering sex is her way of saying “here, this has something in it for you too.”

She’s using it as currency and it takes her a significant swallowing of pride in order to do so. So having Serpico reject her point blanc is a huge blow to both her desire of finally being free of her current lifestyle as well as the sense of power she had temporarily felt at the prospect of being able to secure him by using something that was hers to give.

I am not sure how far you are currently into the manga so I don’t want to talk about future events but let me know if there’s any other part which you’d like me to talk about with respect to Farnese specifically?

But I always read Farnese’s feelings towards serpico as dependence and affection but not as attraction. I feel what she draws from Serpico has almost always been comfort and security and she herself doesn’t necessarily want more from him but was willing to indulge in more if it allowed here to secure the comfort she derived from him.

Of course it is possible that now that her relying on Serpico for security has lessened to an extent, her feelings could morph but the current narrative has her pretty occupied with other relationships- Guts, Roderick, Casca and as of now I don’t think her feelings for Serpico have been given a chance to morph Except for the fact that her affection and concern is now manifested in more healthy ways .

Serpico though, is a whole different ballgame.

Serpico owes his identity to his relation to Farnese. It’s difficult to tell what his feelings are unless he himself spells it out for us and the one thing that is clear to us is that whatever his feelings for Farnese are- they are intense as hell.

In Serpico’s mind, his life is irrevocably entangled with Farnese’s. And he himself hasn’t quite let go of the childhood imagery they had of them both being damaged, twisted people who inevitable ended up twisting and entangling together.

And while he realises that Farnese has since grown, untwisted. He himself feels left alone and is trying his best to keep up  but at the same time forcing himself to hold back and let Farnese take the decisions, she needs to take. Because once again Serpico’s self image is to do with being the provider of what Farnese needs. Serpico changes as Farnese’s requirements of him change. And yes I think your observations about Serpico’s lingering feelings is interesting because I don’t think it’s the knowledge of them being half-siblings that stopped Serpico in the woods when Farnese approached him ( they were already to self-confessed twisted for that to be that big a deal in the atmosphere that had been set up at that point) Rather I think it was the knowledge that this wasn’t what Farnese truly needed at that point which stopped him., he’d seen through her plot, he’d noticed her trembling and Serpico models his actions on Farnese’s wants we never even see his own. There is no doubt in my mind that if Farnese had ever truly wanted to start a sexual relationship with him, he would have obliged. 

Would he have wanted to?

The Godhand knows.

Maybe.

I sure as hell don’t.

I’d actually really like to know your interpretation too, if you don’t mind. I haven’t had an opportunity to read a lot of Farnese- Serpico meta yet and would like to hear other views on it. 🙂

There’s nothing I can really add to be honest except my own headcanons and I’m not sure those count as meta but let me try.

A lot of Serpico’s commentary revolves around how Farnese has changed for the better but also about how he couldn’t help her.

Perhaps he hasn’t realized it (or has but hasn’t voiced it) but he had been unknowingly enabling her and her violent acts.

Serpico states many times that his desire is to keep Farnese safe (and by extension happy one would assume), the way he does this is by mostly following her orders and getting rid of obstacles that threaten her and he does without explaining his actions to her and sometimes without even telling her, Serpico hardly communicates with her directly (or perhaps doesn’t know how).

He never explains to her why he draws on duels. He never explains why he rejects her when she offers herself to him (assuming it was for the reasons you said before). When she asks him if he hates her he gives an ambiguous answer (which prompts her to slap him and reassure their relationship as master/servant). Whenever Farnese speaks of her feelings he never comforts her (at the beginning of their journey with Guts and when they go back to the Vandimion family for a while). Tries to kill Guts without her knowledge and remains weary of him for a long time.

You state before that Serpico’s identity depends on Farnese and perhaps it’s this co-dependency that might’ve lead Serpico to unknowingly enable her. She needs him for company and often violently reassures their master/servant relationship so that he will remain; he stays by her, reinforcing his own self-image as Farnese’s protector and of their lives being twisted together. He knows the things she does are wrong/unhealthy but never does anything about it.

Only when an external force (Guts) comes in and directly challenges everything Farnese knows is when she starts to change. And mind you, Serpico does try to get rid of him, why? Because he upsets Farnese and says as much. Serpico thinks he’s helping her by getting rid of any obstacles in Farnese’s way but he’s only been enabling her to continue on her destructive path. When they start traveling with Guts and Farnese messes up her duties, what is Serpico’s reaction? “I’ll take care of it”, he doesn’t allow her to overcome difficulties on her own until now.

I stated before that perhaps Serpico doesn’t know how to communicate with her in a healthy way; he still does show many times that he cares, but how is he supposed to approach her? How can he display brotherly affection, or any affection at all for that matter if he is just her servant? Or rather…he thinks she sees him as just a servant (I’d love to see what Farnese thinks of him now, she cares for him and isn’t as dependent anymore, perhaps she would even be happy to know that they’re siblings??)

I don’t think Serpico ever realized what he was doing. He loves her, he can’t say so directly so he can only express it through actions, actions that don’t always come across clearly and that aren’t/weren’t always as benefiting as he thinks.

mmmm…This is very nice.

Yes I agree with you it’s kind of like someone slipping a recovering addict suffering from withdrawal a tiny dose to try and help them.