Like, this is a moment of Griffith’s inner darkness shining through. It’s perfect because it comes right after his long dream speech to Charlotte, as he’s learning that he’s achieved a particularly horrible step on the path to his dream. His dream just caused an innocent kid to be killed, and he’s smiling about it.
It’s a very strong way to equate dreams to darkness early on – and it’s great foreshadowing for Guts’ own descent too. This speech that ends with Griffith smiling over the death of a child – that causes that smile – is the very thing that inspires Guts to leave to pursue his own dream! Which ends up being the Black Swordsman arc.
Like compare Griffith’s evil smile to Black Swordsman Guts’ slasher smiles as he’s, yk, fighting “stronger and stronger opponents,” ie pursuing his own dream. Dreams are terrible all around for everyone and I love it.
This is also part of Griffith’s set up that’s very soon knocked down in a subversion of the reader’s expectations. Like I’ve talked about how Griffith’s narrative begins with an image and eventually peels that away to the truth – we start with Femto, then we get early larger-than-life knight in shining armour Griffith who would do anything for his dream, here w/ the assassination we get the darker aspects of that emphasized, and then only five chapters later we get our first full pull-back of the curtain style reveal of the real Griffith, in Casca’s flashback.
Compare Griffith smiling when a child dies on the path to his dream up there to:
and
It’s Griffith burying his guilt – getting much better at burying it through consistent practice lol – and demonstrating his willingness to do so in order to achieve his dream, which, ironically, he’s pursuing because of that guilt. It’s perfect.
I think I’ve phrased it before as like, after learning about Griffith’s dead child related guilt issues in Casca’s flashback shortly after, that smile when he finds out Adonis is dead can only mean one of two things:
either in the intervening years he’s changed so fundamentally that he no longer has those guilt issues, and therefore Casca’s flashback chapters are functionally meaningless and unnecessary to an almost comedic extent.
or it means he’s successfully buried his guilt so thoroughly in this moment as he’s pontificating to Charlotte about his dream that his reaction is pleased – he’s kind of like, becoming the mask, doing that good a job of convincing himself it’s all necessary for the sake of his dream.
And we see Griffith’s guilt issues crop up again in Tombstone of Flame
and again when Ubik’s convincing him to make the sacrifice, soooo we
know it’s not option one lol.
idk it’s a great example of the fucked up duality that comes from living in denial and eventually leads to choosing to become a monster because you already see yourself as one, basically, and it’s something I absolutely love about Griffith’s character.
Is it possible also that on one level he’s smiling specifically because Guts killed a child for him? Because he can take that as pretty strong evidence that Guts is loyal to him and more importantly won’t turn away from Griffith’s dark side or judge him for his darker actions? Like, on top of everything else that’s happening in his fluffy head in that moment.
Huh, interesting idea, I never thought of it that way before.
I’ve gotta give this a solid maybe, because I could see an argument either way. Like, I guess I don’t think it would be an intended reading on Miura’s part, mostly because of how completely sinister and creepy that smile is lol. Like I feel that if Miura wanted to convey a sense of Griffith being relieved in a way by Guts going the extra mile and killing a kid, his smile might seem more like… emotionally complex? Kind of tender?
I’m feeling a little deprived now because I’m imagining Griffith smiling in a more fond way rather than an evil villain way after hearing the news and I’m really loving that idea lol.
Anyway regardless of potential authorial intent, I really like this suggestion, in part because of how emotionally vulnerable and insecure he is in Tombstone of Flame, after another round of comparatively justified assassinations. I like the idea of Griffith maybe wanting to believe that Guts killing Adonis means he’s ride or die for him and won’t judge him for what he does to get to the throne, maybe letting that knowledge make him a little more secure in his relationship with Guts between Promrose and Tombstone, but still being terrified that it’s like, a really fucked-up example of Griffith dragging Guts down with him, and something that makes Guts want to run.
It adds another little layer to the rug being pulled out from under him when Guts does leave. Another action to add to his own self-loathing – it’s not that Guts killed a kid for Griffith, maybe indicating that they share a certain darkness, it’s that Griffith caused him to kill a kid, Griffith dragged him into the darkness, and Guts presumably hates him for it.
(Also there is something absolutely delightful about Guts hating himself after killing Adonis and seeing himself as a monster and unworthy of Griffith’s friendship, even as it makes Griffith feel more secure, more able to open up to Guts, and then later makes Griffith feel more like a monster dragging Guts down. Like, it fits right into the rest of their giant misunderstanding, and it’s the kind of fucked up scenario I live for.)
Can I just say all of chapter 2? I was tempted to go with the end of chapter one as a character establishing moment, yk Guts looking scarier than snake man as he gleefully tortures him, but honestly chapter 2 is where it’s at when it comes to Black Swordsman Guts.
4.
Guts finally, somberly realizing he shouldn’t’ve left, telling Judeau and Casca he’ll stay with Griffith, both of them telling him to leave because he did such a thorough job of proclaiming he’s got a nobler goal and separating himself, just hammering home how it was a mistake.
3.
This is a double feature because I couldn’t decide between these two scenes and they essentially say the same thing anyway:
and
Guts haunted by the fear and temptation of becoming a monster. I love the sewer nightmare, especially coming right before Promrose Hall. The way it conflates Zodd, Donovan, and Guts after he kills Adonis. Guts’ self-loathing here informing why he reacts so badly to the overheard speech too.
And then after Rosine and a fun child-killing spree, these ghosts voicing his inner thoughts. The self-loathing, muddied by the temptation of giving in and following in Griffith’s footsteps, ironically the same choice he made after Promrose Hall. Griffith’s dream made him a monster, and Guts’ dream is doing the same – and the Black Swordsman content is absolutely Guts pursuing his own dream, to fight stronger and stronger opponents.
2.
Guts channeling all his painful feelings into rage here. I can’t really say the whole rampage through Midland lol, there are moments I like less, but definitely the start of it, the reunion in the depths, killing the torturer, one man army-ing up the stairs and out the door. It’s just so good. Exactly how Guts avoids dealing with his feelings, really awesome to watch, nice sense of protectiveness, and excellently illustrative of how devastated he is to find Griffith after a year of torture.
1.
Guts finally, finally beginning to accept that he’s found a new home, the place where he belongs, here with the Hawks and Griffith, after Griffith risked his life to save him from a monster (in a particularly meaningful contrast to his childhood). Finally beginning to move on and heal a bit. This is the moment of greatest potential for Guts and p much the pinnacle of his life and it’s so effective at putting the reader and Guts at like, a height from which to fall.
Bonus 6:
This only gets a bonus spot bc I’ve mentioned it a few times before as one of my favourite Guts moments and I don’t want to be too predictable lol, but it’s so good. This whole scene. Guts ostensibly wanting to fight Femto but more than anything wanting his attention and only being spurred on to even stand up when Femto says that.
Oh Guts. ilu
every time i re-read a bit of the conviction arc i want to say something about its depiction of relationships, whether that gels with the rest of the story, etc, but it’s always so hugely daunting
in part because it seems to contradict everything i get out of the golden age lmao
like according to conviction arc themes, the fatal flaw in griffith and guts’ relationship was that it was too intense and they needed each other too much
like, according to the conviction arc
the problem here isn’t that Guts failed to understand his own importance to Griffith and therefore left, the problem was that he was important to Griffith at all. Griffith should have been able to rely on himself and no one else.
look at this:
transcription bc the writing is hard to read:
But those threatened by the dark… can by no means ever let go of a torch. All they can do is stare in blank surprise at their illuminated, disgustingly cruel selves… and continue to suffer it… And to protect their stunted self-esteem they depend on it… all the while hating it. Cravenly… deceitfully…
(They’re even both on the giant hands, and Luca and Guts both let go self-sacrificially. It’s a very direct parallel.)
Of course, this statement is extremely cynical and delivered by an antagonist. But the narrative seems to fully support it regardless:
According to the Conviction arc, Griffith was right when he said this:
And Guts was right to leave. Guts and Griffith’s problem was that they were never equals, and they admired and resented and clung to each other in turn.
I absolutely cannot reconcile the themes of the Conviction arc with the Golden Age, because that is clearly not the point of the Golden Age.
Oh but bthump, you might say, the point is that Guts and Griffith were too obsessed wtih each other while not being equals and that was a bad thing, while Guts and Casca have an equal relationship and therefore they are an example of a good relationship, just like Nina and her shitty boyfriend up there.
Well, sorry to say, the Conviction arc is also gtsca negative, here’s Casca stating the theme right before saying it also applies to her:
Stop relying on other people, Casca.
There’s also “a person hurts someone just because they’re strong” as a prelude to Guts assaulting Casca. Like, they’re not a happy healthy equal relationship either lol, either pre or post Eclipse.
Of course, it’s worth noting that the Conviction arc is very Black Swordsman-y, and therefore its “most relationships are bad, actually” message may not be wholly sincere, but may be more a reflection of Guts’ current stupidity.
eg
Will you? Because to me it looks like you got caught up in trying to kill incorporeal images of the Godhand and trying to find Griffith and completely forgot about her, only remembering the whole “save Casca” plan once you realized you couldn’t kill the images you were swinging at.
Yeah Guts, at a time like this you’re.
Someone else’s strength, Isidro’s, saved her.
And of course, Guts’ “I can do everything myself” stupidity continues until he sexually assaults Casca and finally realizes maybe he needs some people to rely on. It’s all bookended by the Beast of Darkness, and it’s later contradicted by Guts’ rpg group. I mean, he gains them because they’re all fucking clinging to him and considering him better than them lol. Farnese calls him her saint, Isidro idol worships him, there are parallels drawn between Guts and the group and Griffith and his followers a lot.
But again, by Conviction arc logic, the rpg group is bad. Following Guts is bad. But that’s obviously not the case.
But like, man, the Conviction arc just hammers in this shit about unequal relationships and clinging to others, resenting the torches in the darkness, etc etc etc, over and over and over. Even the religious stuff feels like a statement on unequal relationships – people clinging to a God like Nina clung to Luca like Casca clings to Griffith then Guts, like Griffith and Guts clung to each other. Like it’s hard to dismiss it all as bullshit. But it’s so fucking awful lol, I absolutely loathe it.
And it is directly contradicted by stuff like the fact that this is portrayed as good:
I half-wonder if this is an issue with Miura writing some of Berserk while depressed lol, considering how utterly cynical the Conviction arc is. Or maybe this is all going to come back front and centre and we’ll find out the rpg group is also fucked up and about to tear itself apart. I mean if a person hates someone because they’re weak and hurts someone because they’re strong, everyone in the rpg group should be full of resentment towards Guts. Come to think of it, the Hawks should’ve all hated Griffith. Falconia should hate Griffith. It should be another Tower of Conviction, by this logic, full of resentful baby-eating heretics lmao.
OR – is that a statement on the world Griffith overturns? Silat saying tyranny will always exist, that’s the reason of man, and Jarif responding with, yeah well Griffith’s world lies outside of your idea of reason. Like, Egg’s wish, and therefore humanity’s collective wish, was for an ideal world where that shit he says about relationships doesn’t apply, right?
I just don’t fucking know what the point is man. Some relationships are good, some relationships are bad, and there’s no rhyme or reason to which we’re saying are good and which we’re saying are bad, or why.
I will tell you one thing tho: according to Conviction arc logic, Guts and Griffith are each others’ gods. So that’s fun.
Also… because Guts and Griffith’s power dynamics shift over the course of the Golden Age, my conclusion that their issue isn’t that they’re unequal but that they’re idiots who don’t recognize until it’s too late that their feelings for each other make them equals, isn’t necessarily contradicted by any of this.
This is a pretty strong conclusive statement to be casually contradicted by a parallel to Nina and Luca an arc later.
Like Nina and Luca may be a bad match because Nina cares more for Luca than vice versa – Luca tends to see her as a responsibility lol. But that’s clearly not the case with Guts and Griffith.
But did Miura think about that, one wonders, because the parallels are very direct. Idk idk idk. Fuck authorial intent, whatever the hell Miura was going for, my reading still makes the most sense, contains the fewest contradictions, and is the least fucked up message.
Judeau’s clear agenda in the back half of the Golden Age is hilarious to me because it’s like Miura couldn’t get Guts and Casca to fuck naturally, so he had to make it a side character’s sole mission in life to arrange their hook up.
But actually to be less cynical, I think it works very well with the overall tone and thematic takeaway from the Golden Age. Why was Judeau meddling? Well, it’s strongly suggested that it’s because he was in love with Casca himself, but didn’t consider himself worthy of her. He thought Guts would be better for her, and that Casca would be better off traveling with Guts than leading the remnants of the Hawks, so he shoved Guts at her until they boned.
And look how that turned out.
Moral of the Golden Age: tell people how you feel instead of just assuming you’re not good enough for them.
And like, something I really love about Judeau’s character is that he seems to fill that character trope of friend who gives good advice and lays out some of the story’s themes and nudges the protagonist in the right direction for the plot. But like everyone else in Berserk he’s more layered than that – he has his own reasons for saying the things he does and directing Guts the way he does, and those reasons are kind of based in low self esteem. He’s another factor that helps bring everyone to the Eclipse.
Sometimes he does give good advice, but sometimes he gives genuinely bad advice, because he’s biased.
And I think there’s a potential parallel between Judeau trying to set Guts and Casca up, and Guts trying to set Casca and Griffith up before he leaves. Guts feels unworthy of Griffith because he doesn’t have a dream, but Casca does, so he shoves her at Griffith to get her to take his place as his sword, but yk with added romance because heteronormativity.
It’s not unbiased-dude-trying-to-be-a-good-bro-for-his-friends advice, Judeau’s own issues are a factor in him trying to get Guts and Casca together.
Judeau feels unworthy of Casca because idk he’s insecure about being a jack of all trades, master of none lol, so he considers Guts, who is the best at least next to Griffith, more worthy of Casca and tries to get them together.
And in his dying moments, he knows he fucked up. That he should’ve just said something.
And yk what, he may think Guts is more worthy of Casca because he’s the best at something, but Guts was up on top of a giant hand trying to save Griffith long after that stopped making sense as a course of action while Judeau was down here trying to survive with Casca, and I think we all know who Casca appreciated more in this moment.
There’s something to be said for just being there with someone instead of leaving them in the snow/trying to convince a dude to sling her over his shoulder and run lol. Same with how Judeau was with Casca throughout the year of hiding and trying to survive while Guts was fucking off on his eat pray love vacation.
It wouldn’t surprise me if we’re meant to see Judeau/Casca as a tragic missed connection and the better alternative to Guts and Casca getting together.
(On a personal note I don’t actually like the idea of Judeau/Casca both bc it’s het lol but also since it’s just, yk, dude pines, wants the girl but meddles in her life for her own good, Casca’s feelings towards Judeau aren’t explored at all, etc. But the way Miura portrayed Judeau’s regret and his presence vs Guts’ absence makes me think that the takeaway is that in the best version of events Judeau would’ve told Casca how he felt and they would’ve got together. And thematically that fits imo.)
Also while I’m on this topic, I want to take yet another opportunity to point this great moment out:
hmmmmmmmmmmm
Judeau then immediately segues the conversation to the whole “Casca’s life sucks right now, you need to save her from it, etc” bit.
But I fucking love this moment specifically because it’s telling us that not only is Judeau overtly meddling to get Casca and Guts to hook up, but Judeau believes that Guts knowing how Griffith really feels about him will impede his plans.
And I mean it’s true, he wants Guts to leave with Casca and when Guts realizes how hard he fucked up and how much Griffith desperately needs him and always did he wants to stay. But it’s just such a nice touch to tell us that Guts and Casca… only work in the absence of Griffith. Guts gets with Casca when he falsely believes Griffith looks down on him. Guts chooses to stay with Griffith when he’s convinced he was wrong about that.
(And post-Eclipse, Guts abandons Casca for his revenge campaign, and chooses to stay with her when NeoGriffith says unequivocally that he’s over him now lol.)
It adds to the sense that Guts and Casca are both rebounding from Griffith, and they only work together as long as they both want to distance themselves from him. When he’s back in their life they get weird and jealous immediately, and then they both independently choose not to leave the Hawks together (Guts telling Judeau he wants to stay, followed by Casca telling Guts she can’t leave with him) and Casca tries to break up with him lol.
[insert more picspam here, we all know Guts is fixated]
let’s be real, it’s the hair.
Griffith’s favourite physical quality of Guts’:
I was gonna say something like his buff arms, or his strength in general, and I think that would also be a legit answer, but yk what I’m going with
I think I just wanna say Guts’ face in general. Like maybe this is just Miura failing to properly objectify his point of view manly man protagonist, but when he’s making Griffith’s heart flutter his heavy brows and intense focused stare tend to be pretty prominent.
Also I’d argue that Miura kind of emphasizes Guts’ rugged handsomeness this way during/after the rescue mission, when the love triangle’s rearranging itself to put Guts in the centre:
moreso than at any other point in the story. So yeah.
Guts’ favourite non-physical quality of Griffith’s:
Ok this one’s tricky because I want to say Griffith’s like, larger than lifeness. His respectability, leadership abilities, ambition, that whole package, because that’s what makes his attention that much more valuable to Guts. He doesn’t want just anyone’s attention, he wants Griffith’s attention, because Griffith is the coolest guy he knows lol.
But! Like the entire point of the Golden Age is Guts learning that he’s been prioritizing the wrong aspects of Griffith. And obviously I don’t think Guts only liked Griffith because of his image lol, just that Guts really valued that image because like… he wants to be admired by someone admirable.
But I’m also going to say Griffith’s playfulness, because there’s something there that grabbed Guts early on, not just something he admired but something he genuinely liked, and I always come back to the waterfight. Guts has never had a friend his own age before, and he’s never had a chance to be a kid in his life. The waterfight is I can only assume the first time Guts fought just for fun.
And despite all the smokescreens of status and admirability and godliness etc, at the end of the day they just genuinely like each other, they like hanging out and having fun together.
Maybe you can say it’s both in combination – the fact that he’s larger than life, but has this more human, real side of him that is reachable and that he can genuinely connect with. It’s what makes Griffith’s “superiority” something he loves and wants to live up to, rather than something he resents.
Idk.
Griffith’s favourite non-physical quality of Guts’:
His determination. Whether it’s used against him, like during their first duel (or post Eclipse), or to fight for him, or to protect him, I think Guts’ willingness to do anything in a fight makes him swoon. One reason he refuses to try to reign him in despite Casca complaining that Guts gets away with everything lol. And one reason his heart started beating while he watched him fight Zodd.
What do you think? I kind of just stuck really close to things basically stated in canon but I think there are better, and probably shippier/more fun answers lol. If you have alternative suggestions I want to hear them.
I think there’s a strong argument to be made that, rather than being
depicted as burgeoning true love ruined by the Eclipse for the
sake of extra tragedy, Guts and Casca getting together is depicted as a mistake from the start.
This is really cool and all but, if Guts didn’t love Casca in the true sense of the word, why did he travel half the world to rehabilitate her?
Well canonically there are a few alternative motives suggested:
That’s the darkest one. Incidentally it’s also the reason Miura gave for not killing Casca off – because Casca keeps Guts angry and prevents him from fully moving on – so it’s not just the Hound spinning his wheels, it’s a legit factor.
There’s also making up for past mistakes:
Longing for a piece of the good old days:
Which I suggest because almost every time Guts thinks of the old Casca it’s as a Hawk commander, rather than as a lover. Plus his insistence on “forcing” Casca’s sanity back despite warnings suggests to me it’s not really selfless on Guts’ part.
And honestly I think partially it’s because:
Prior to NGriff’s dismissal Guts still planned to go after him:
Erika suggests making the cave homier and staying with Casca, so Casca will be content and won’t run off again. Guts is like, yeah that’s true, and then:
Then he goes into his “the instant I saw him, I’d forgotten my urge to kill” internal monologue, raging at himself for his lack of desire to kill Griffith (”and that can’t be!”)
He’s still planning to go after him again, but then NGriff completely refuses to even give him the time of day, mysteriously saves Casca, and fucks off, and that’s when Guts decides to stick with Casca this time.
So imo it’s also partially because “I’d forgotten my urge to kill” + NGriff “deserting” him = losing his drive for revenge. Now he’s emotionally capable of trying to move on, so he’s seizing on that because revenge was a big self-destructive mess and he totally failed in his goal of either killing Femto or getting his attention, and Godo + Rickert etc all kept hammering it into his head that he’s better off taking care of the last remnant of the Hawks.
And bc Griffith’s apparently successfully moved on from him, so he wants to move on from Griffith and he’s focusing on Casca to do so.
I mean if you ship Guts and Casca and think love is Guts’ strongest motivator then go for it, it’s also one potential explanation, and maybe it’ll end up unambiguously confirmed as true love, but I honestly don’t get the impression that Guts is in love with her at any point myself. I think Guts’ actions make perfect sense even if romantic love isn’t a genuine factor, and some of his actions make very little sense if he’s truly in love with her (like leaving her in a cave for two years and then needing to debate with himself before he actually decides to take a time out from revenge and rescue her in the conviction arc.)
Like I think he’d make the same choice to go to Elfhelm if his relationship with her had remained platonic the whole time, or if it was Judeau who survived but lost his sanity, etc.
Thank you for this post. (lol I meant to say “Why you SEE it in that way” sorry).
I always saw it in that was as if he didn’t want other people to view and be shocked at what was done to his face.
Either way current Guts wouldn’t hesitate to deform Griffith’s face in an even worse way… I’d fucking love to look at what he does with him when he has the power.
If that’s the impression you get from the manga then fair enough, but that reading never occurred to me until I watched the 3rd ova lol.
And tbh I definitely think Guts would hesitate
Also letting Rickert hold him back on the Hill of Swords, deliberately trying to let go of his desire for revenge for the sake of the Elfhelm trip, and the way he really sucks at finishing this sentence:
The way he separates Griffith from Femto, and usually pictures Femto as an empty faceless exoskeleton.
And only ever expresses longing and regret towards original Griffith:
And NeoGriffith looking “as if he’d been stolen from the past, the way he used to be” throws him completely off because it makes it harder to separate the different versions of him.
Basically imo his feelings towards NeoGriffith are far from simple, and I don’t think he’d find it emotionally easy to kill him.
And moreover his desire to kill is what gives the Beast of Darkness strength, so it’s framed as a negative thing in the story.
If Guts does happily kill NGriff without hesitation, that’ll be a v dark ending that indicates he’s lost his humanity, imo.
Oh actually I do have one thing I can add about NeoGriffith, that I’ve been kind of thinking for a while but haven’t posted because it’s potentially controversial lol
But I think you could make an argument that NeoGriffith is… Griffith. As though transforming from Femto back into a flesh and blood body returned his whole range of emotions as well, basically if NGriff has the same emotional and psychological make-up of human Griffith.
Like, imo he is exactly what Griffith would be if:
he talked to god and god told him he’s not responsible for anything and everything he chooses to do is the correct fate-sanctioned thing to happen and he’s basically just a pawn
he spent a few years as a demonic embodiment of the dark side of himself and humanity, with the rest of his humanity stripped away
while he was that demon, he committed an unforgiveable and unjustifiable act of evil for no reason but spite
he is removed from the rest of humanity because he has another level of awareness/partially exists on another metaphysical plane
he made the choice to sacrifice everyone he loves both to achieve his dream and to cut out his heart because his feelings for guts ruined his life and sent him into suicidal despair
Like, basically NeoGriffith as Griffith in deep, deep, deep denial lmao, and finding it really easy to stay in denial because god gave him a thumbs up and he’s extra detached from his human emotions due to being a godlike entity with intimate knowledge of fate/the astral plane/his place in the world/etc.
I say this as someone who genuinely believes that human Griffith was more or less a good person. But I still think it would absolutely be in character for a Griffith who remembers being Femto to tell Guts he regrets nothing and then leave to do his thing.
So in this way you could say that NeoGriffith is the extreme fantasy story version of a dude who deliberately detaches himself from his own emotions for the sake of achieving a goal.
But to be clear I don’t think this is actually the case in canon.
I think NGriff probably actually has magically dampened emotions due to the sacrifice, and due to having magically transformed a few times most of human Griffith is genuinely lost, like we see him losing pieces of himself, and I don’t think he got those pieces back.
But like, I think NGriff kind of works on another level as not just the embodiment of the image Griffith portrayed, but how he maintained it, ie, by denying all his feelings. And I find the idea of NGriff as Griffith-in-extreme-denial really like… interesting and fun lol, in a headcanon way.
@bthump whew it’s been a while since ive talked berserk w/you but i had to reply cause this. this is so much more than a hc to me because i’ve always felt it HAD to be (at least semi) canon that neogriff HAS feeling but that he chooses to bury/ignore them instead.
‘it seems i’m finally free’ MY ASS.
femto was the emotionally distant one, or at least the ‘complete monster’ version of griffith that (could) truly rise above his mortal feelings and he still was acting out of spite over guts and casca and all that hurt he had to endure (partly/MOSTLY over them) when he was still human.
it blows my mind when people argue griffith now has no feelings when the whole driving force of the entire golden age and after when everything went to shit was because of the sheer depth of his emotions for guts because let’s be real that’s all we’re here for) and the fact that he tried (in vain) to bury them- which then caused them to come out later in uglier ways.
(there’s that quote by Freud right…)
“Unexpressed emotions will never die. They are buried alive and will come forth later in uglier ways.”
AKA berserk: a summary.
I agree 100% with neogriff being in denial tho, like wouldn’t he love it to be free of his obsession with guts? wouldn’t the old griffith who had his heart more or less cut to pieces over his doomed love for guts give anything to be free of those feeling so he could pursue that dream of his that killed thousands? OF COURSE HE WOULD. but that’s not the reality of it. not even now that he’s gained this new body and his new kingdom.
like there is no doubt in my mind that consciously or subconsciously everything neogriff does or will do plot-wise is not going to at some point be overshadowed by his eternal longing for guts.
and anyone who disagrees can fight me.
If he did lose parts of himself that’s only right, like a dark reflection of guts who continuously tries to rid himself of whatever’s left of his love for griffith that could stand in the way of him absolutely destroying him. (i mean- counting the parts before the happy boat trip from hell. like- when things were still, yknow, good.)
and yeah maybe there is ancient demon magic sealing griff’s heart from unwanted emotions that could stand in the way of HIM achieving HIS goals but like- didn’t it throb tho- bthump– when he saw guts again? even if it’s at 0.01% capacity I’LL TAKE IT. It’s enough, even if it’s a sorry remnant of everything there used to be i’m sure eventually it’ll be enough to fuck up all his plans, i mean with his invulnerability now honestly what else could cripple neogriff now other than his heart itself? SO POETIC.
(also i remember when ppl used to send you song recs?? they were so good man i made an entire playlist. here’s another one: say it right by nelly furtado ‘oh you don’t mean nothing at all to me’ ugh so perfect for this little piece of meta, i listened to it on repeat typing this lmao)
Oh yeah I mean like, I 100% believe that NeoGriffith still has some emotion lol, I’d be willing to bet real money that we’re headed straight to a reveal that he’s not nearly as over Guts as he wants to be. But I think that canonically he’s somewhere between “Griffith in turbo denial mode” and “totally emotionless shell.”
Like, dude is going to do something irrational when Guts shows up again. That’s just how narratives work man, it’s gotta happen. I’ll join you in that fight lol. So I completely agree with you.
Also ty for the rec, it totally works for me. and lol ikwym the recs ppl sent me made my berserk playlist like twice as long, it’s gr8.
said:
What are your thoughts about the current Griffith? In my eyes he has
become like the Snow Queen – Beautiful, yet cold and empty. Practically
unable to experience emotion and lacking in any humanity. A pretty
doll. A shell. A walking facade. What do you think?
My answer to this ties into the other thing you asked me to expand on, re: Griffith and contrasts, so I guess I’m just kind of doing both answers at once.
Basically I agree, but I think there’s more to NeoGriffith (ie post Femto, resurrected, godlike Griffith) than that.
Griffith as a human is so interesting to me in part because he’s full of contrasts, which is one of those hooks that really get me interested in a character. And those contrasts mostly stem from this attitude right here:
He hides away all of his weaknesses, his negative thoughts, the truth of what actually drives him on (guilt), his self-loathing, even from himself. He smiles and portrays an image of perfection so well that he essentially believes it himself most of the time.
So you have things like the Promrose Hall speech, where he’s fully embodying that image of himself:
vs Casca’s flashback, which is a glimpse of his darker, much more fucked up self underneath, and directly contradicts the above:
So you have the contrast between the perfect leader, the guy who can take down an army of 30,000 with 5,000, the guy who waxes poetic about how great dreams are, the guy who is this fucking cool while burning a queen alive:
And the guy who self-harms after prostituting himself to a pedophile to prevent as many deaths of his followers as possible despite claiming he doesn’t feel responsible for them, the guy who falls to pieces and destroys his own life when Guts leaves, the guy who hates himself and desperately wants to be told he’s not a monster:
And both are Griffith. Griffith isn’t just faking his confidence, he genuinely is that confident. He genuinely believes that his dream is a worthwhile pursuit in and of itself, and he can’t call any of his followers friends because they’re clinging to his dream rather than finding their own dreams.
He’s portrayed that image so fully that it’s a real part of him. But at the same time, sometimes it shatters and reveals the exact opposite underneath: the self loathing, the fear, the fact that he’s in love with Guts and has nearly lost his dream because of that love multiple times (ie nearly dying while trying to save him from Zodd, burning his own life down after Guts leaves, even going back and rescuing him personally that first week).
And that brings me to NeoGriffith, because what NeoGriffith is, is that image, and only that image, with none of the very human weaknesses behind it.
He’s described as a painting, as untouchable, etc, like fifty million times.
He’s basically become the impression he used to leave people with.
If Griffith contradicted himself – confidence vs insecurity, conviction vs self loathing, unwaveringly pursuing his dream vs Guts making him forget his dream, etc – then NeoGriffith is one side minus the other. Confidence, no insecurity, conviction, no self-loathing, the dream, no Guts.
And it’s uncanny too. He’s pursuing the dream, but he’s no longer motivated by his very human feelings of guilt (and also fear/insecurity, which we’re shown here:
I got this whole argument about dreams in Berserk being essentially shitty coping mechanisms lol, which I won’t get into now but is worth mentioning as another aspect of human Griffith that NeoGriffith lacks)
He’s lost his human flaws, and that makes him kind of disturbing imo, because those human flaws drove him, and now he’s driven by nothing, he just is.
And, just as a side note, it’s also worth noting that Femto is the other side imo – the self-loathing, the insecurity – in the sense that Femto is the embodiment of the monster Griffith believed himself to be deep down, the monster he believed Guts saw him as too, after this exchange (and then Guts leaving):
I mean it’s ultimately the final puzzle piece that makes him agree to the sacrifice:
And I 100% believe that NeoGriffith is referencing that here with his “you, of all people”:
So like, tl;dr Griffith is a land of contradictions, and that’s embodied in 2 magical fantasy transformations that make those disparate elements of him literal personifications.
NeoGriffith is the side of himself that he showed the world as a human, stripped of his humanity, and Femto is basically a personification of his own self-loathing, in which he became everything he feared himself to be, everything Guts failed to tell him he wasn’t.
But this is just like, the thematic take lol. This is what I think NeoGriffith essentially represents. But it’s also more complicated than that, because
But when it comes to like, NeoGriffith as a character, rather than a construct, who potentially still has emotions and ties to his previous life, I guess I’ll leave you with links because I don’t really have much new to say:
Basically I think there’s plenty of indication that Griffith failed to entirely purge himself of emotion and isn’t quite the serene image of perfection he seems.
(sry this took a while to answer bc i had to think about it lol)
tbh i could see so many different possibilities being in character, esp depending on the details of the au. But like, assuming this AU is as close to canon as possible while still being set in the present w/ current identity politics and a gay community etc, yk both still have traumatic histories, griffith still has a dream that requires marrying a woman, etc etc, I can maybe throw out a few ideas. tho again like, nothing set in stone.
I guess ultimately I really want them to be each others’ realizations.
I like the idea of Guts’ being a slow realization that kind of sneaks up on him, where first he realizes that he would absolutely be dtf Griffith and it’s not til after that realization that he figures out that makes him gay. Like I mean he’d fall into that “it’s not guys, it’s just you” cliche but he eventually realizes that no, actually it is men.
He might try experimenting too – like surely it’s just because Griffith looks androgynous, so being with a woman would be better – but nope, doesn’t work.
Might be worth mentioning here (tho i’m sure u already know this) that I hc Guts as gay rather than bi bc Miura did a great job of making his interest in Casca feel super inauthentic to me lol.
Also I think it’s fair to assume that his csa trauma would lead to some discomfort here, but at the same time I don’t think he’d consciously like assume all gay people are predatory or even assume his rapist was gay and not just a pedophile. He might be uncomfortable being checked out in bars at first, and I feel like he’d be prone to worrying that his sexuality makes him specifically more likely to hurt someone bc feeling like a monster is kind of a canon issue he has, but he’s smart and fairly self aware and wouldn’t make it anyone else’s problem for the most part, barring like flashbacks during sex or smthn.
Also he’s tough enough that he’d never really feel like he’s in physical danger with anyone else. So assuming he’s in a good place in his personal life (ie not in a walking disaster “don’t touch me” phase) I don’t think he’d show any discomfort. (And I mean in canon the first time we ever saw him relaxed and happy was while having a water fight with a naked dude who he thought came onto him when they first met a few days earlier. I really don’t think it would be a huge issue.)
And overall I think he’d be fairly low-key about it. He’s gay but it’s just a description to him rather than an identity to build his life around. He wouldn’t be closeted but he wouldn’t be out to everyone in his life like, idk coworkers or w/e. Tho eventually I think everyone would realize because I think he’d kind of want to show Griffith off lol.
Griffith I could see like, simultaneously knowing he’s gay all his life and refusing to fully acknowledge it. He’s gotta achieve a goal which requires a certain image which requires heterosexuality. Maybe he’s not actually attracted to women, whatever, but that doesn’t actually matter as far as he’s concerned.
So with Guts being his realization, what that means is that Guts is the breaking point where Griffith realizes he’d rather have Guts than the dream. Yk, like in canon, but with a) no torture chamber, and b) the addition of this realization leading to the larger realization that he can live as his authentic self and be happy.
Like I’ve mentioned before that in Berserk you have this dichotemy of the dream/het marriage/emotional repression vs guts/emotional expression and yk in a modern AU you can add coming out to emotional expression.
Like we’ve talked about this b4 but I’m saying it again bc I love this idea where Griffith realizing he’s in love with Guts and would rather be in a relationship with him than achieve whatever his modern AU dream is is like a catalyst for dropping the image of respectability and ~finding~ himself. He’d make a bunch of gay friends, start experimenting with more gnc looks, volunteer at pride, go to protests, etc.
Though if his motivations for achieving his dream are similar to canon (mb not the whole for the sake of the dead thing, but yk guilt, to assuage a feeling of inherent worthlessness, to justify things he did to achieve it that he’s ashamed of, w/e) there’s also plenty of room for some angst and drama in between that realization that he wants to give it all up for Guts and embracing a new life. Some “am I selfish/terrible for choosing Guts” soul searching or w/e.
ALSO I feel like modern au griffith could’ve been fairly gnc as a child – wanting to play with girls’ toys, singing along to britney spears, saying he wants to marry the disney princes when he grows up, wanting his hair long, playing dress up in dresses, etc – with some kind of catalyst that hammers home this idea that to get the thing he wants he has to police his behaviour and be like everyone else. this is self indulgent but i just like this concept of like, knowing what you’re about as a kid and then having to unlearn everything you’ve internalized since then. it’s an appealing narrative to me.
And like I could see Griffith’s trauma with Gennon actually affecting him and his opinions wrt sexuality/internalized homophobia more than Guts’ trauma affects Guts, mostly because Gennon was such a goddamn evil gay stereotype in canon, plus Griffith’s own self-loathing compounded w/ the idea that he’s always sort of known he was gay = a secondary motivation for trying to embody the image of a heteronormative ideal, to distance himself from the idea that he’s anything like Gennon. Like Griffith’s trauma comes with a side of effeminate stereotypes and ostentatious homoerotic castle decor, etc. But I don’t think it’s necessary either, like it’s not something I’m super interested in exploring and hey maybe modern AU Gennon is less of an offensive stereotype. and/or Griffith is v socially aware and capable of recognizing that Gennon isn’t representative. w/e, kind of a take it or leave it thing I guess.
Also I’m not really envisioning these 2 concepts (guts and griffith) in the same story lol. Maybe they could fit together but I didn’t really think about it.
And again like, I’m just throwing stuff at the wall lol, not saying this is my Official Take on Sexuality and Characterization or w/e.
This parallel/contrast is a great little illustration of the significance of the Zodd encounter.
Cuddling with his sword the way he did as a child when faced with mistrust and derision vs dedicating his sword to Griffith – in the first his sword is a comfort object, an escape, a distraction. In the second his sword is a tool – he’s not wielding it as a distraction from his own pain, he’s wielding it for someone else, as a symbol of a meaningful connection with another person.
It’s also worth noting that right before the conversation with Griffith, Guts was angrily swinging his sword as a distraction while remembering Casca making him feel like an outsider (”you’re just a mad dog!” “it’s your fault!”), essentially underlining this contrast between the way Guts regards his sword before and after Griffith says he saved his life for his sake.
And check out these matching visuals of Guts looking at his blistered hands, just to drive the point home:
Yeah I kinda feel the same. I love the character designs to pieces tbh, I feel like they totally nailed everyone’s look, evoking Miura’s late Golden Age art, aka his best art imo, without copying it completely.
And I really liked some of the adaptation choices, like obviously the deliberate emphasis on the griffguts subtext was a lot of fun. Loved every change they made to the scene where Griffith shows up at Charlotte’s window – the way he’s completely out of it and nearly collapses on her, going ‘wait what the hell am I doing I should leave’ and having Charlotte ask him to stay, etc. Liked how they streamlined it to Griffith showing up personally after the 100 man fight. I really liked how they moved “the crystalization of your last tear shed” to after Guts’ post-Eclipse breakdown, and the whole violent history of humanity sequence during Griffith’s transformation was p great too. And in general I liked how they depicted everything they didn’t change from the manga, at least in the first two movies. There were a lot of good subtleties, it looked good aesthetically give or take some cgi, etc.
But I will never not be salty about losing Griffith’s backstory + Tombstone of Flame, and therefore like his entire motivation and character in general. I mean come on, Griffith’s self-harmy rant to Casca and “do you think that I’m cruel?” are absolutely necessary.
Instead they went for more of a Griffith is a shallow ambitious asshole who happened to fall in love with his bff, ruined his life because of it, and then decided not to make the same mistake twice angle. Like, the appearance of the pile of corpses in Griffith’s mind when Ubik’s convincing him to make the sacrifice doesn’t even work in the movies, it’s too little too late to show us his guilt issues now, especially without an actual focal point like the dead kid, or any visceral demonstration of how he feels, like the prostitution or the self harm. It all just comes across as shallow. They might as well have cut it out and had Griffith agree to make the sacrifice as soon as Void mentioned giving him wings and his dream back lol.
In general I actually feel like they did a fairly good job keeping the basic themes of Berserk intact while cutting out a ton of it lol. eg they lost 90% of Guts decision to leave, but Casca got a line towards the end about how people are weak so they cling to dreams and other people. So like, despite the fact that they cut out a huge amount of important stuff about Guts and Griffith’s dreams, I know they got the basic point and managed to convey it.
Tho ofc a lot of those scenes they lost are necessary not just bc of the information they convey but because of the emotional impact, so eg cutting Guts’ post-Zodd rooftop scene was still a terrible decision even if technically it doesn’t tell us anything absolutely necessary that we couldn’t’ve figured out from Guts angrily thinking about Casca calling him a mad dog followed by Griffith saying he had no reason to risk his life for him. It’s still a ~moment~ and it’s important to the impact of the Promrose Hall speech.
Also the third movie especially is kind of a mess imo. The rape scene was practically comedic w/ the music they added and way too long, the pacing was overall awful, they had Griffith overhear Guts wanting to stay for some reason which really muddies his whole subsequent breakdown, and they completely butchered the best and most important moment in the story:
Like, this is coming from someone who thinks that like, half of Griffith’s motivation for making the sacrifice was just to get rid of Guts lol, I have no problem with him feeling spiteful here, but my god, this is cartoonish. Look at the original:
Even the anime caught more nuance of feeling and it was never that great at conveying subtle emotions thru expression:
Idk this is long and disorganized lol.
tl;dr I also have mixed feelings. I enjoy the experience of watching the movies, and I feel like the people who made them probably have a lot of the same takes on Berserk that I do, which can make a lot of details they included fairly rewarding (eg one I often cite is showing how Griffith lies about not feeling emotion by having him back his horse away from Gennon after claiming he doesn’t gaf), but overall I disagree with a lot of their adaptational decisions and it’s fairly frustrating lol.
lol despite this being a gr8 essay prompt I’m just going to brainstorm and list a bunch of stuff.
parallels:
larger-than-life figures often compared to storybook characters.
self-harming
while denying feeling responsible about people’s deaths. (Guts does
this a couple times in the Black Swordsman arc lol)
obsessions/dreams (castle vs revenge/becoming griffith’s equal/killing a bunch of stuff)
in
both cases dreams are defense mechanisms/escapes from the pain of the
world. “what do you fear in this place?” *points at castle* vs “when I’m
swinging this sword I don’t have to think about anything.”
personified inner darknesses (maybe you can become a real monster, like your friend)
guts deserting griffith vs neogriffith deserting guts, complete with maudlin comparison from guts
guts picking up the behelit in the black swordsman arc
farnese’s feelings for guts vs casca’s feelings for griffith
guts
similarly gathering followers with the phrase, “do what you want,”
maybe even things like griffith’s “blazing inferno” vs say serpico
musing on being affected by guts’ heat.
ok it’s a stretch but possibly both of them currently doing their damndest to forget the other?
denying feelings of guilt by rambling about their dreams in front of
Casca while dripping blood as Casca screams at them to stop hurting
themselves.
nightmares/visions of being children screaming apologies to corpses? i mean you could sum this up with “guilt issues” I guess lol:
ooh I’d argue the way both their dreams are based in childhood desires, a la:
this
this
(re: dude’s son who died in battle)
this
this
this
Contrasts:
Well there’s the surrendering to fate vs defying fate thing. Griffith embracing destiny by making the sacrifice. Relatedly ofc, defying God vs becoming the messiah.
I
have a post here that kind of boils down to saying that Griffith’s
narrative is about succumbing to evil in pursuit of the good, while
Guts’ narrative is about balancing the good and evil within himself. In a
way you could maybe say that Griffith is about harsh contrasts while
Guts is about shades of grey.
Guts allowing Casca to comfort him vs Griffith shutting her out.
Potentially the way Guts deliberately attempts to “let go” of his obsession with Griffith vs Griffith choosing his obsession,if
Guts’ revenge quest is meant to parallel Griffith’s kingdom. imo the
waters get muddy thanks to Guts’ dream sabotaging his relationship with
Griffith in the Golden Age vs Guts dream being the remnants of his
relationship with Griffith and sabotaging his “relationship” with Casca
post-Eclipse. Like, you could at the same time argue it’s a parallel in that they both try to let go of their obsession with the other by fixating on a goal (kingdom/fix casca). I mean the former is more likely, but fuck it I prefer the latter lol. (Hey Guts didn’t get the ominous armour of inner darkness until choosing Casca and since then his warnings about losing himself to it have gone hand in hand with warnings about Casca’s wishes not being Guts’ wishes. So in a way sticking with Casca is actually subtly tied to his inner darkness even if it is telling him to chase down Griffith. Hey you never know.)
Their Golden Age narratives parallel each other but in opposite directions which makes for a contrast: Griffith shifts from his dream as the most important thing to his relationship with Guts as the most important thing, while Guts shifts from his relationship with Griffith as the most important thing to his dream as the most important thing.
I guess there’s the obvious black vs white colour scheme thing lol. Which goes hand in hand with Griffith’s image as a knight in shining armour vs Guts’ scary black swordsman image. Tho I think it’s an oversimplification to say that eg NeoGriffith is evil with a good image and Guts is the opposite, which I’ve seen a lot lol.
Guts as a human struggling with his inner monster, NeoGriffith as a monster struggling with his inner human?
both struggle with loneliness and isolation but Griffith is social and Guts is a loner.
strategy vs… instinct? not quite the right word, but yk Griffith’s way of fighting is more intellectual and strategic and while Guts utilizes strategy a lot it’s more subconscious – like when he caught Silat’s chakrams because he didn’t overthink their trajectories.
Hmm I’m probably missing some obvious ones ngl, but I have to stop at some point and I feel like I’ve started scraping the bottom of the barrel lol.
I wouldn’t change either Guts or Griffith’s backstories tbh, I think they’re actually pretty well done, and important to their characters and narratives without being the be all end all. Well, I’d like to make Gennon less of an evil gay stereotype and Donovan less of a scary black man stereotype but yk, other than those details the existence of rape in their backstories isn’t something I’d change.
With Casca… tough call. Her story is all about gendered violence to the point where if you got rid of the rape attempts you’d have to come up with a whole new story for her. But it’s still a shallower and less well-rounded depiction of abuse than either guts or griffith’s backstories, bc it’s so emphatically gendered, like, rather than informing her personality or her choices it’s just framed as being a woman.
So actually I guess for Casca what I’d change is (actually pretty obviously lol) her motivations. She’s not in love with Griffith, she idealizes his dream because she knows he wants to dismantle those power structures that fuck her over and create a place where those w/ power can’t easily abuse their power over others. She hates Guts not because she’s jealous of him (tho she could still be jealous of his emotional closeness with Griffith, like she’d still admire Griffith here even if she’s not in love with him and I like that rival dynamic), but because she recognizes that he could end up destroying Griffith’s dream.
Also I think we can still cut out most of the rape threats she gets while still showing that she has something to fight against. Maybe keep Adon being a gross dick (in all fairness he kind of mirrors Gennon towards Griffith which kind of shows how they’re fighting for the same dream – ie a world where those kinds of dudes are shut down) but have Casca just fighting for her life rather than against rape attempts as she runs from the 100 man fight.
So nothing really changes much until Guts comes back from his vacation. And now Casca is genuinely, genuinely angry and hateful towards him, because he did exactly what she’s been afraid he was going to do – destroyed Griffith’s dream, and her hope for a better future.
Which means they don’t have sex lol, Casca was never into Guts, they began a friendship towards the end of the war but nothing more. And now that Guts has come back Casca is actively hostile to him, though after Guts lets her stab him she probably forgives him a bit bc it’s not like he intended to destroy absolutely everything, and he’s clearly fucked up about it.
Also no suicide attempt.
So their dynamic during the rescue mission is resentful allies, like a throwback to their first three years knowing each other.
Wyald still happens but no attempted rape w/ Casca obviously.
Now when it comes to the Eclipse, I want it to be all about Guts, and I want it to hit the audience over the head with parallels to his childhood. It’s the Eclipse, it doesn’t need to be subtle. Rather than looking wistful when Griffith sacrifices everyone, I want Guts to look betrayed, I want him to look just as sad and horrified as he did when he was 11 and Gambino told him he sold him to Donovan.
Agh I’d hate to lose the creepy silent monster vibe from Femto, but something like a cold, “you’re still alive?” would be v fitting w/ the “you should have died” parallels. Tho idk I’m torn on that.
And ok I said I want it to be all about Guts but I can’t just kill off Casca. But if she’s gonna live the Eclipse needs some serious personal meaning for her too. So maybe her reaction to being sacrificed, knowing it’s for the dream she’s dedicated her life to and in theory she should be willing to give her life for it, and trying to reconcile that with the horrificness of the situation and her desperate desire to survive anyway. So she survives long enough for Femto to show up, because she’s not the third best fighter in the Hawks for nothing, and then…
torture? Femto has monsters hold Guts down and tortures Casca in a way reminiscent of a kid pulling the wings off a fly. She loses an arm, Guts keeps his because he’s too busy being utterly terrified and possibly flashbacking to hack his own arm off in a rage.
Like, one thing about the Eclipse rape, is that if Miura had to have it as a way of emotionally affecting Guts, how the fuck did he manage to draw like two chapters of awful awful shit with Guts being held down by monsters that he’d just watched rape Casca, and completely fail to allude to Guts’ own rape trauma? How. Hooooow it’s mind boggling. It’s absurd.
But you don’t even need the graphic rape for that, like hell, Miura has absolutely adequately set up the correlation between giant monsters Guts is compelled to fight and his own childhood trauma imo to justify Guts having a very emotional traumatic reaction to just being held down and made helpless by monsters after being essentially given to them.
There’s Black Swordsman Guts in a nutshell, and this is exactly what was implied to have caused him to go full traumatized amoral asshole. Before g*tsca was a gleam in Miura’s eye all he had were those parallels to Guts’ childhood trauma – Guts being given away to monsters by someone he trusted – and that’s all he needed.
So anyway, because Casca lives, she has her own reaction to being casually tortured by Femto before being rescued, which is also a replay of her childhood trauma but without the agency of killing her attacker herself with a sword. So her reaction could very well be similar to Guts’ – a desire to kill monsters and get revenge. Maybe she’s lost her idealism wrt the dream, and she’s more cynical now – a better world is impossible, best you can do is survive this one.
She and Guts go their separate ways because they’re barely friends, let alone lovers, and remember 2 brands = big ghost problems.
After this the narrative splits 3 ways between NGriff, Guts, and Casca.
I’m reaching the limits of my creativity lol. So I’m just gonna suggest that Guts gets the behelit, Casca gets the armour and the rpg group, Casca gets the moving on arc and hooks up with Farnese while maybe finding a happy medium between changing the world and lashing out against the world, and Guts succumbs to his inner darkness and gets a highly emotional confrontation with Griffith. Since he has the behelit maybe he uses it upon realizing that Griffith’s heart is still beating for him, bc the emotional conflict is just too much, and sacrifices Griffith to become a Zodd-esque apostle wandering battlefields and fighting for no reason, basically returned to his pre-Griffith state.
It’s probably shorter than 355 chapters too lbr. I’d say NGriff creates Falconia right before the confrontation with Guts, so yk he achieves his dream b4 ironically getting sacrificed. Otherwise his story doesn’t change much. Maybe stronger suggestions that he’s not as unemotional as he looks, to build up to a guts confrontation better.
Like… I’m not a very creative or good writer lol but I feel this general outline could be written in a very good and satisfying way by someone with talent, like Miura.
i know i’ve been talking about casca a lot recently but I just kind of want to outline the biggest issue with her narrative imo:
Griffith throwing her a sword instead of personally killing the nobleman for her was presumably an important aspect of her character development. It’s why she decided to become a mercenary (”you know how to fight already”), it’s the beginning of the sense of pride and accomplishment she feels when she fights to survive.
She is personally invested in her life as a mercenary, in being able to defend herself and fight for her survival, and in rising up with Griffith as well, carving out a new path.
To Casca, Griffith represents an end to the way of life she thought was only natural – starving and being caught in between skirmishes in her village, being exploited by those with more power.
He threw her a sword – Griffith represents her personal empowerment. Rather than someone else saving her, it’s her ability to save herself if she only has access to the right tools.
Casca knows he wants a kingdom, and she has a personal stake in seeing that kingdom come into existence. This isn’t really directly said anywhere, but we know she knows he plans to marry Charlotte to get to the throne, and we know she admires his dream, and we “know” she values her hard-won freedom to fight against people who would oppress her.
This is extremely good shit when you look at it through that perspective – Casca admiring Griffith’s conviction and having a personal stake in the realization of his dream. Seeing Griffith’s vulnerabilities as well, and deciding to be his sword, to help strengthen him so she can see his dream become a reality, because it’s one she shares, and hell, even because on a personal level she loves him in whatever way – not because he saved her but because he enabled her to save herself. That’s fine as an addition.
BUT NOPE
“My dream… had… already ended.”
Like, in this chapter, she’s literally like, ‘yo remember when I said I wanted to be Griffith’s sword? I was lying, I just want to fuck him, and since you’re the only one he wants to fuck and Charlotte’s the only one he has to fuck I’m gonna kill myself.”
Her dream isn’t to fight to survive, it’s not to help Griffith cut away his own path and carve out a place where a young poor girl from a downtrodden village who narrowly escaped becoming a slave could become a celebrated general. Her dream is to fuck Griffith.
Her monologue at the start of chapter 46 starts with how she couldn’t tear her eyes from Guts as he walked away from the Band, and how that freaked her out because she was afraid it meant her feelings for Griffith were a lie. “Afraid of all that, I lived with the intent of sacrificing myself for my unrequited feelings for Griffith.”
Literally, she led the Hawks for that year not even out of duty to them or loyalty to them or Griffith or the dream – just because of her romantic feelings for Griffith.
And that’s why she’s able to drop Griffith’s dream like a hot potato when she focuses on her romantic feelings for Guts instead and he invites her to leave the Hawks and come support his dream instead. She was never actually invested in Griffith’s dream, or her life as a mercenary, or even the Hawks as a family. When Guts left he eventually realizes it was a mistake because the Hawks were his family, the place where he belonged.
When Casca decides to leave with him, there’s no acknowledgement of that for her – no sense that she’s choosing to leave a family. It’s just taken as read that that’s what she should do because she’s in love with Guts and that is what motivates her.
And like, Guts’ dream is literally just “I want to fight whoever the fuck. I just want to kill a lot of people and get better and better at it.” Unlike Griffith’s it’s not noble, it doesn’t make the world a better place, it’s not based on any kind of ideals that can make Casca’s life better. But despite that Casca’s like, sounds great, where do I sign up to cheer you on from the sidelines?
(And we know if she went along with him she would end up on the sidelines rather than fighting alongside him, because that’s exactly what happens soon after with Wyald.
“I’m takin’ him one on one.” “No matter what… I’ve gotta settle the score with him. With them.”)
And this is essentially why Casca’s narrative is misogynist as fuck. Not just because of her romantic feelings, but because of the way Casca having actual values and personal desires that aren’t romance-related was a fucking bait and switch lmao.
She was set up as someone who gave a shit about something, only for that to have been a lie all along because she only gives a shit about hooking up with either Griffith or Guts.
Honestly the more I think about it the more it boggles my mind how awful this is lol. Like chapters 45/46 aren’t even Casca accepting that Griffith’s dream ain’t happening anymore and finding consolation in having a new “place” in Guts’ heart or w/e. It’s straight up about Casca not just being in love with Griffith, but revealing that it’s been her sole motivation all along.
And like, lbr I choose to ignore this entirely because it’s so bad and so stupid and so flat and dumb and terrible, but man – it’s all there outlined clearly in straightforward dialogue
ohhh man re-reading those chapters in particular and like
there’s such a clear little mini-arc. This isn’t brand new information at all, but I love seeing it laid out like this so I’m going to talk about it.
Chapter 6 starts with Guts trying to visit Griffith while brooding about Casca’s “it’s your fault!”
He’s prevented by social status.
Casca punches him out and Guts leaves and sulks, and the rest of the Hawks have this exchange:
So we start with the statement that everyone’s feeling a little distanced from Griffith thanks to his promotions, and this is very much affecting Guts too, which is why he threw a couple guards down the stairs and made an ass of himself while trying to visit him.
Then we go straight to Guts angrily swinging his sword on the staircase.
He’s pissed off about Casca making him feel like an outsider. This is a dude who has clearly defined issues when it comes to being blamed for bad shit happening. See, eg, Gambino blaming him for the death of Shizu, calling him “cursed,” along with the rest of his first mercenary band.
Three years with the Hawks, and Guts is mostly content and happy, but there’s still this doubt, still this sense that he’s a little on the outside looking in, a little distanced, and Griffith more recently drifting away from everyone puts that background feeling into sharp relief. This is why we begin our narrative, after the three year gap, when Griffith gets promoted into the nobility.
Guts angrily swinging his sword, alone, probably brooding over Casca accusing him of not caring about his comrades since this scene is placed right after that confrontation, while Griffith gets promoted, rising away from him.
Chapter six returns us to Guts swinging his sword angrily and alone while brooding over his feelings of being an outsider. His place is with the Hawks, but is it really? When it’s “his fault” Griffith nearly died, when he’s accused of not caring about anyone but himself?
And then Griffith seeks him out, joining Guts at the midpoint of a staircase, for that extra bit of symbolism.
He talks about how much he hates the other nobles, talks about how nightmarish their encounter with Zodd was, but how it was also interesting theologically lol. A bit of philosophy, a bit of personal connection and emotional opening up. Guts asks the question.
And the turn of this little mini-arc is, of course, this:
The end of chapter six.
It’s Griffith completely assuaging those fears of being an outsider, of losing him to the nobles, of being looked-down on. It’s Griffith negating his deep-seated belief that his only worth is as an asset.
Three years ago Guts began this sentence:
And now, in chapter seven, he’s finally reached a place where he can finish it.
Idk basically this is the pinnacle of Guts’ search for belonging, and I love how well it’s built up to by emphasizing Guts’ outsider status first, through Casca’s angry tirades and through Griffith’s promotions.
Which ofc also provides a solid foundation for the dissolving of Guts’ feeling of personal fulfillment in another few chapters. Honestly it provides a solid foundation for literally everything that comes after. This is the skeletal structure of Berserk – Guts’ longing for love and acceptance vs Guts never quite feeling like he has it. Except right here and right now.
“Even so, incidentally, I found someone I really wanted… to have look at me.”
That feeling goes as easily as it came, with a few words, but it’s what motivates Guts at least until chapter 130 (potentially til chapter 182), after which trying to forget that feeling and focus on what he does have is what motivates him (”I came this far by letting go of my obsession…”) And we’ll see how that goes.
i have like, actual things to say but first i want to get my obligatory picspam out of the way lol
like there’s a reason his very first sight of griffith is a slow sexy letting his hair down moment
that comes first in his memory even when his association with griffith should be ‘the jerk who stabbed me’ not ‘the pretty guy with gorgeous hair that i’m imagining extra fanned out and sensuous’
and then there’s this
and don’t even get me started on how mesmerised he is by neogriffith’s hair
like sure it works as a visual contrast to femto to emphasize his lack of demonic appearance, but man
i mean there’s a panel of just his hair as like an abstract design as a lead in to the full pages of naked griffith, framed by guts’ awestruck expression
and guts’ memories of the big moment of course which exaggerate his hair even more
oh and like all of guts’ memories of human griffith that aren’t his back after the swordfight include his hair flowing in the wind
ANYWAY in addition to bombarding you with visuals bc I enjoy spamming panels from berserk, my take is that Guts totally eroticizes Griffith’s hair, whether consciously or unconsciously, and wouldn’t actually touch it, say, to casually brush something away, until their relationship turns sexual, because it feels off-limits to him bc of that erotic association.
but then he wouldn’t be able to get enough of gently brushing it behind his ear before going in for a kiss, or looking at it all splayed out and messy while he’s asleep, or mb eventually grabbing handfuls and using it to physically guide him during sex a bit, or even brushing it for him sometimes, though he’d probably be a little intimidated at first cause lbr he wouldn’t know the first thing to do with hair longer than an inch and a half. (also ik you don’t brush curly hair but griffith’s seems less curly and more wavy to me and therefore brushable? either way tho, guts helping w/ hair care is good. washing it for him too.)
also griffith and guts cuddling w/ guts just like gently scratching/massaging his head and playing with his hair.
I was also considering the idea of guts coming in his hair like, by accident, and getting awkwardly turned on even as he apologizes lol, but actually idk… it def wouldn’t work as a humiliation thing, and i feel like come marking as a d/s thing automatically has associations of humiliation, but then there’s also just the way bodily fluids are intimate. i could see guts being into it as like a physical sign of how close they are and more physically associating griffith’s hair with sex lol.
i like the idea of it as an accident during a blowjob that griffith laughs off and guts is awkward and a little turned on about, but mb not as a deliberate sexual activity, i think.
welcome to controversy country
Griffith’s decision to sacrifice the Hawks was perfectly reasonable not just taking into account Griffith’s own values and priorities, ie ensuring the thousands of dead posthumously achieve the thing they died for, but taking into account the Hawks’ own attitudes towards their lives, including Guts’.
It’s all there in Requiem of the Wind.
“More than half of us’ve been killed…”
These are the core group of Hawks. These are the ones who believe in Griffith so strongly that they’re willing to spend a year living as outlaws, dying in raids, so they can rescue him – so Griffith can lead them again.
There were lots of deserters over that year. People who didn’t think it was worth risking their lives for a chance at achieving Griffith’s dream. They’re presumably out there living happily ever after.
These Hawks are the ones who are willing to risk their lives, not out of friendship or loyalty to a man, but out of loyalty to what the man symbolizes for them, what he can bring them, the success that comes to them when they follow him. Out of loyalty to the dream.
Corkus is the only one throwing a tantrum, but he’s voicing all their thoughts, as we can see when his words are placed over their depressed faces.
Wyald spells it all out.
This is who Griffith is to them. He’s the facilitator of their dreams, dreams that each and every one of them is willing to risk their lives for.
And when he can’t be that to them anymore, what happens? He becomes a burden to them.
Judeau offers to take care of him because it’s the least he can do, because he owes it to him, but mostly because if he doesn’t he thinks Casca will, and he thinks it will be a life ruining burden for her. His offer is a personal sacrifice.
Casca offers to take care of him because it’s the least she can do, he’s so small now, he needs someone, and because if she doesn’t Guts will, and she thinks it will be a life ruining burden for him. Her offer is a personal sacrifice.
Guts’ offer is probably the only one based on a genuine desire to stay with Griffith.
Now, Guts doesn’t see Griffith as the guy who can grant him his dreams. Guts is the exception to that. He sees Griffith as a guy he wants to be friends with.
But here’s Guts’ take on the situation:
Finish the battles you start.
Well, that’s exactly what Griffith chose to do. The Eclipse is, in part, a narrative rebuke of Guts’ stubbornness lol, it happens because he seized on the concept of finding his own dream and couldn’t let it go until it was a moment too late.
When Guts finally drops his own “battle” in favour of staying with Griffith, ie makes the right choice contrary to his dogged nature, it comes too late because he’d successfully convinced Casca that he was dedicated to his dream at the expense of his friendships with the Hawks. “I want to draw a line, keep things separate.” He told her he didn’t want to stay with the Hawks, and she believed him, and that attitude is what ruins everything.
And ironically that’s the exact path Griffith chose when he agreed to the sacrifice. Drop his friends and relationships in favour of renewing his committment to a dream, and finishing his own battle.
For the rest of the Hawks, the Eclipse is a rebuke of their choice to live and risk their lives for tomorrow’s success rather than today’s existence.
Now, this absolutely isn’t me arguing that the Hawks deserved to die or anything lol, this is just me saying that Requiem of the Wind is largely set-up for the sacrifice, and I think it’s a clever way of like… depicting the sacrifice not just as a random tragedy that befell a group of people, but as a darkly fitting end to the way they live their lives.
It shows that the sacrifice is consistent with everything the Hawks profess to believe in.
They are all willing to lay down their lives for a victory they may never see.
The Eclipse is the fucked up yet logical conclusion to the Hawks’ very existence as a mercenary band that fights for an ideal, a dream, rather than just day to day living. They agree to potentially sacrifice their lives in every battle. The Eclipse is just one more battle, by this logic, and it’s one they win by losing their lives in it. By dying, they achieve their ultimate victory.
And I think by taking this whole philosophy of dedicating one’s life to a dream to its logical and horrific conclusion, Berserk is basically critiquing the concept of living for an ideal. In making the sacrifice, Griffith gave the Hawks what they wanted at a cost they’ve already agreed to by choosing to risk their lives for Griffith’s victories and the success he can bring them.
Of course, in the moment, knowing that death was inevitable, they would have preferred to live. None of them would knowingly trade their life for a future they won’t live to see. But that’s essentially what they’re doing by fighting battles for future hopes and dreams.
At the end of the day, the moral of Berserk’s story is really simple and basic: live for the sake of being alive. Guts had it right during his three years with the Hawks, before overhearing the Promrose Hall speech: no grand dream, no living for a potential future, nothing but doing the job of a mercenary with a group of people he considered family, enjoying life day to day, fighting just to live a life he considered worthwhile.
Personally I have mixed feelings about this message, but I’m pretty sure that’s basically the point of Berserk.
Black Swordsman: living for revenge (and, for extra irony, Guts’ own dream of fighting stronger and stronger enemies) is bad, living day to day with those “irreplacable things” – friends – is good. Golden Age: “I was too stupid and stubborn to notice it, but what I really wished for back then was here.” Guts left for a dream and by leaving threw away what he truly wanted – companionship. Conviction arc: the people who survived the shadow Eclipse were the people who acted to save their own lives, rather than out of a conviction, their faith in a higher power. Millennium Falcon: “Dreams can make for courageous challenges or opportune escapes” – emphasis on escapes. Troll village dude wanted to escape the darkness of life through a dream as a child, but eventually found greater fulfillment just living an ordinary life in his village. etc etc. Stop dreaming, focus on living.
And essentially the despair we see from the Hawks upon their realization that the fight is over and Griffith is no longer able to lead them to a greater dream leads directly to the Eclipse and gives it a layer of dark irony.
Okay, this is totally overkill, I know, but your ask has motivated me to just lay it all out, so ty!
Yeah, I can see why people look at this image and see it as one huge raised scar. It’s fairly ambiguous looking, and it’s the visual interpretation the anime went with, which reinforces this common perception:
But look at this:
You can see when he traces it that the “outline” of that “wound” fits his two fingers exactly. It’s not one scar, it’s two self-inflicted parallel scratch marks.
They’re not in the same place as the river scratches, there are only two instead of four, and they’re also older and therefore either mostly healed scabs or scars which he’s tracing instead of tearing open in that moment, which is why they’re not the same as the bleeding open wounds we see in chapter 17, but they are definitely two separate marks, not the edges of one giant scar.
Tbh I think Miura put them on his shoulder instead of his arms this time mainly for dramatic effect so Griffith is more curled in on himself when he traces them.
imo the movie is closer to the spirit of the manga in making them scratch marks and showing Griffith seemingly tempted to add to them. It’s still a little weird considering their placement further back, and idk what they expected new audiences to think since they cut out every relevant aspect of those marks being there, ie his backstory and the night Guts and Griffith assassinate the Queen and co. But whatever, it’s close enough for me.
And to just briefly explain those scratch marks a bit further, basically, as much as it looks a bit like a big scar in the manga, like you said, it really makes no sense for it to be.
If Guts’ sword had hit him in the second duel he’d either have a gaping wound or a discoloured bruise later that day, not a scar, and if he got it somewhere else that we never get to see then he has absolutely no narrative reason to trace it and cry while thinking about Guts. It would be nonsensical and meaningless for him to trace some random mysterious scar that has no relevance in this highly emotionally charged moment.
On the other hand we know he has a history of self-harming by scratching himself, and we’ve seen him viciously scratch himself under circumstances very similar to Tombstone of Flame Part 2 – the moment Griffith flashed back to just as we see his bare shoulder with those marks on it for the first time in that first image up there: “You believe that, don’t you?”
Griffith has done something he considers “dirty” for the sake of his dream, asks someone else what they think of him (”Am I dirty?” // “Do you think that I’m cruel?”), both Casca and Guts inadvertantly reinforce his belief that he’s dirty/cruel with their responses (”N- why… why were you alone with him before?” and “Ain’t that part of the path to your dream?”), and in the river in front of Casca he self harms while talking himself through the necessity of dirtying himself for his dream, so it feels safe to assume that sometime shortly following his conversation with Guts in Tombstone of Flame he also self harmed while telling himself it’s necessary to be cruel for his dream.
Now that Guts has left in what Griffith believes is a rejection of the “cruelty” and “dirtiness” that he let Guts in to see, he traces those old scratch marks and tries to convince himself again that it’s worth it for his dream. And the point of this moment is that he can’t convince himself this time. Instead he just curls up and sobs, because in the face of Guts’ apparent rejection, it’s not worth it.
Like I said lol, this is overkill as a response to your ask, but like I saw an excuse to explain my take on this moment in its own post, instead of buried in a much longer post, so I took it.
Great analysis, I would like to add a couple of points, if you don’t mind.
Guts didn’t want to hurt Griffith during the duel, he stops his sword before it hits him: he doesn’t have cut hair, nor clothes. No signs of bleeding whatsoever too (he didn’t change his clothes when he got to Charlotte, so he would’ve been soaked with blood).
And since Miura is very precise with what he draws, we can clearly see the hypothetical sword wound would’ve gone from his neck to his shoulder, not from his back to his collar bone:
The way the scar it’s drawn still bothered me, so I searched for it in the other chapters, and in chapter 39 it looks the same, while in chapter 40’s cover it looks like two separate scratch marks:
So either Miura changed his mind about its origin or he noticed people didn’t understand what it was supposed to be.
I’d like to think the movie got the “corrected” version, but we’ve seen they took some liberties with stuff such as Griffith’s tortured face, so who knows. I prefer the scratching as an explanation for that wound.
ty for the addition!
yeah i really wish Miura would’ve made it say, three scratch marks instead of two for the sake of clarity, but oh well.
I could even mb see an argument that maybe it’s meant to be ambiguous and deliberately looks reminiscent of a scar, maybe to emphasize that Griffith came away from that duel wounded emotionally, if not physically. Buuuut that’s a huge stretch and almost certainly not intended lol.
Question:
Answer:
When I first killed a man, I was still a kid who didn’t know right from left. I haven’t learned anything off the battlefield since then – and I haven’t tried to learn. Killing to survive… there was nothing else I could do. That was everything.
But… it was all right. If one person… anyone… had looked my way…
But wandering the battlefields made me realize… that wouldn’t do me any good in tryin’ to survive. It was just somethin’ of a childish complaint.
Even so… incidentally… I found someone I really wanted… to have look at me.
ok anime aside, anyone know if there’s any proof that these are guts’ thoughts, like in the original japanese wording or smthn? because they read so griffith to me in phrasing, and also if these are guts’ lines then it kills alot of my sympathy for him lol.
like kinda turns it from guts leaving without a word bc he didn’t think griffith would care, to guts leaving without a word despite knowing he was causing some amount of emotional damage, bc he’s thinking w/e griffith will get over it. like, surprise dude, he did not get over it. or, to be more cutting, he did in fact eventually stand up and start walking, and that was a bad time for everyone.
(on the other hand if i was adapting this and if it is genuinely ambiguous, i’d rly want to have both vas say these lines lol. i mean maybe it’s not completely a bad thing for guts to not be super sympathetic in his choice to leave. understandable, yes, but a mistake is a mistake and if guts gets these lines that’s just kind of underscoring it.)
honestly I never even doubted that these were 100% guts’ words, I mean now that you’re bringing it up I guess maybe they could be griffith’s (the like stumbling on a rock, a small thing part aka him lying to himself about how much it impacts him) but that makes zero sense to me considering in this very moment he’s just sitting there utterly defeated (like… even more so mentally than physically) so him internally monologuing this deeply feels really out of place. (i always considered him so completely shocked there everything else was just static to him. like he hears no sounds. doesn’t even feel the cold. can’t think. it’s just guts walking further and further away booooo) but you’re right about it killing a bit of the guts sympathy tho because yeah, why leave at all if you’re aware you’re already important enough to cause griff at least SOME form of pain. I mean isn’t that what he wanted all along like why willingly walk away if you’re semi-aware you already mean enough to someone to cause them a minor breakdown. (lol understatement of the century but then again guts at this point knew nothing of the true depth of griff’s feelings)
and this brings up another issue, if these are guts thoughts, and we then assume he was aware he was at least ‘a rock on griff’s road’ yet still left, can we then also safely assume that whatever he was aware of that griff felt for him, was not enough for him, like this whole scene always read to me as guts leaving because he wanted MORE (like yeah i know that’s the whole plot but hear me out) and steeling his resolve to go by winning back his freedom because his eventual return as griffith’s equal would magically undo the hurt and anger griff might’ve felt over guts breaking from his hold. like he had to at the very least know damn well that griffith valued him greatly as a captain and treated him different than the rest of the band, casca deadass tells him that and the only thing that stands in the way of him accepting it personally is his inferiority complex or whatever you wanna call it.
I know guts is a self-unaware idiot esp. in the golden age but cmon dude, he saw the way griff was sitting there stunned before him after that strike, he saw how he was completely shocked he’d lost the duel and thus his hold on guts. take into consideration guts’ own represses feelings for griff and you can imagine his heart must’ve ached at seeing griff so completely shook up.
BUT HE STILL WALKS OFF, monologues the above complete bs of an excuse to himself to justify why it is somehow okay for him to leave and become worthy of being griffith’s equal (that in any case, he already more than was but hnngg berserk is not a happy love story unfortunately)
Its actually good if that kills some of the sympathy because yes this is what inevitably kicked off all events that led to the eclipse and yes it was partly guts fault and YES he should feel very fuckin sorry.
and since the whole plot of berserk is in essence based on the weight of choice and how much of it is really your own or set in stone by fate this is a really good example of a really realllly reallllllly bad one with unimaginable consequences.
tldr; those have to be guts’ lines and yes its cool if you resent him alil for them lmao because this page is the arguably the worst moment in the entire manga cause it kicks off the end of all good things era.
It’s funny bc I just assumed they were Griffith’s words when I read it, since I didn’t remember the scene in the anime at all at the time, and imo it feels like something Griffith would think. Tho I do get your point about Griffith being beyond internally monologuing to himself, and idk I’m kind of torn… like I don’t rly disagree, he is absolutely emotionally fucked here lol, but the way I see Griffith, if there’s anything that would be running through his head at this moment it would be, “it’s fine it’s nbd idc at all it’s nothing” all the while kneeling frozen in the snow while the rest of the hawks there shuffle their feet and glance at each other awkwardly.
But I’m like, all about Griffith denying his feelings to himself so it’s an aspect of his character I mmmmay exaggerate a bit lmao.
But yeah wrt it being from Guts’ pov, I agree with everything you said, and like… yeah it rly does work. tbh I don’t think you’re wrong about anything there, there’s a lot of evidence that Guts at least knows Griffith has strong feelings for him and was devastated when he walked away. But omg I just… can’t handle that lmao.
Like, I need to see Guts as completely blinded by his inadequacy issues because otherwise I feel actual anger towards him and honestly I almost never get angry at fictional characters, I’m generally way more detached than that, so this is a very weird feeling lmao.
Like, it really does shift my attitude towards Guts leaving from seeing it as a
very innocent mistake since he never in a million years believed leaving would genuinely hurt griffith, to really actually
assigning him some serious blame bc he knew it would hurt griffith and
the only mistake there was miscalculating how much.
And like, that’s not just low self esteem, that’s callousness, and it’s callousness that resulted in my fave being tortured for a year and then deciding to become a monster so like, i guess that’s probably why it pisses me off lol. fuck you guts.
So tbh I still want to cling to things like Guts’ complete lack of understanding and denial when he comes back, during Casca’s tirade and his chat with Rickert, and in the tunnels on the way to rescue Griffith, etc, as evidence that Guts’ mistake was being genuinely blind to Griffith’s feelings towards him no matter how obvious they are bc of his low self esteem and inadequacy issues, rather than like, knowing Griffith cared to an extent but miscalculating how easily he’d get over it. And like, “this says to me I’m still worth spillin blood over in your eyes,” also kind of makes me hope that he thought Griffith only gaf about him as a soldier.
idk it’s a lot more palatable to me as another mistake in a big pile of golden age mistakes that no one can really be blamed for because they all have serious issues fucking them and their relationships up, alongside things like griffith failing to recognize his feelings and making his speech to charlotte, and casca running to grab griffith to stop guts from leaving, and both of them choosing to fight rather than talk, etc. And idk maybe if I was unbiased it would still feel like another one of those mistakes bc it’s not like Guts’ issues aren’t contributing lol, but idk it feels like Guts walking away goes above and beyond.
And agggh yeah like that moment is given an above and beyond treatment in Guts’ memories and related guilt issues, so that’s still perfectly reasonable… lmao it feels weird to be the one wanting to defend Guts when I was just saying that narratively everything is his fault and tbh I always feel like most of the fandom lets him off the hook way too much lol.
tl;dr I think you’re most likely right but that makes me feel negative feelings :((( and yeah ok those negative feelings fit the story but still :(((
What if Guts just meant that Griffith would survive the humiliation that he has lost or to be more precisisely lost a very strong soldier?
@chaoticgaygriffith said:
I’m on the “definitely assumed they were Guts’ words” train, and that’s
why I was so frustrated with him lol and wanted to see way more guilt
from him. But I think he thought the damage would be more like, you
know, Griffith losing a good soldier, instead of losing the man he loves
& the only person he can be vulnerable with. Let me check the
original Japanese though, just in case!
(I’m combining these responses to avoid reblogging the same long post twice in a row lol.)
but yeah lol this… really makes a lot of sense and idk I think I’m blinded by feelings here bc I can’t believe I didn’t think of looking at it like this lmao.
tho now that you’ve suggested it i’m suddenly missing all the angst and guilt involved in @ninjabelle‘s interpretation l q l
tbh
i think i could go either way depending if i’m in the mood for angst or
if i want to feel sympathy for everyone lol, guts either walking away
thinking griffith will get over losing a fight and a soldier vs guts
walking away knowing griffith cares somewhat on a personal level but
thinking of that as just more evidence that he needs to leave because
those feelings mean he’s the guy who can eventually become his
friend/equal.
you're the only one 