Tag: griff-guts

xiyyh
replied to your post “sometimes i feel like people forget that guts griffith and casca were…”

this always trips me up when i realize i’m scrutinizing too hard, like lmao they’re stupid kids making stupid mistakes like kids do .. even guts dramatically and silently going off on a vision quest of his own fits this … like lmao i can imagine him composing a dramatic journal entry about it hoping griffith would see it later, and basically fantasizing about the drama that would follow oh my god

@griff-guts said:
can confirm im a teenager and i sound like hamlet annoyingly waxing poetic 99% of the time so who can blame them

lmao this is all so legit

honestly it’s easy to forget bc the story treats them like adults but they’re really not

griff-guts
replied to your post “There is really something to be said about the significance of…”

ngriffs true emotional breakdown moment will happen when guts touches him again. miuras just a coward who won’t write it

i could still see it happening

especially after all the emphasis on neogriffith’s untouchability (and rickert being able to slap him), or at the very least i could see a significant touch between them, even if it doesn’t cause a breakdown

but i mean ~i still believe~ berserk’s going to get real gay again when guts and ngriff yk, finally end up in a scene together

griff-guts
replied to your post “What do you believe is the probability that Miura releases official…”

guts and griffith: kissing passionately, flowers bordering the frame of the shot, griffiths hand is up guts shirt
berserk fans: ok see this is CLEARLY a reference to the way ancient roman soldiers were told to use physical intimacy to strengthen the Brotherly Bond among comrades. this is actually some pretty smart stuff miura is doing he’s using the historical allusion to suggest that like rome griffiths kingdom will fall after he’s killed by his former ally guts (an allusion to caesar). genius

holy shit lmao

seisans
replied to your post “How do you think charlotte would react to neo griffith if she saw what…”

i’d say it depends on how she finds out. does she see it with her own eyes? does someone tell her? does GRIFFITH tell her? makes a big difference imo

oh yeah v true. I’ve actually thought about Griffith telling her a watered down version of events after Rickert showed up. Or he might’ve already mentioned some stuff back when he first rescued her, assuming she had a question or two about why he’s hanging out with monsters and can now perform miracles lol.

@griff-guts said: same lol charlotte (and characters in general) as representative of themes is My Shit

lol yeah I love that, and Berserk is great for this tbh

griff-guts
replied to your post “How do you think charlotte would react to neo griffith if she saw what…”

charlotte was a convenient plot point that allowed Griffith a quick trip to the throne via marriage, which would allow him to cruise on into being king without disrupting the royal structure or starting a revolution. Imo she doesnt have a firm characterization bc 1) miura sucks at writing compelling women and 2) her wishy-washy-ness and the fake superficial nature of her relationship with griff is a stark contrast to guts and griffs relationship – which id like 2 think is purposeful but lmao
that was a stupid and long reply but
basically charlotte is a cloaking example of how ppl view the image
griffith projected, and now neogriffith – thru rose coloured glasses and
as an idea or concept rather than a real person. to charlotte he’s her
knight in shining armour, to the falconians he’s a saviour, to the old
band of the hawk he was a way to a better life etc etc
also charlotte has a
habit of ignoring or running away from the bad things in life. if she
were to find out about the truth with griffith, would she even care?
what’s her other option? locking herself up in a tower like she did with
her father? I doubt learning griff is a “monster” would change much
about him in her eyes, she already knows he kills ppl and when he talked
about it in his friendship speech she was basically like “oh griffith
that’s so disturbing” and then got over it lol

Yeah I agree w/ most of this (I mean tbf I find some of the women Miura writes compelling, despite giant writing flaws, but Charlotte is not one of them lol)

Charlotte really is like the ur-example of how other people see Griffith without really knowing him. I suppose that’s probably why people want to see the scales fall from her eyes lol. Even back during the Golden Age, he was assassinating her family left and right and she had no idea. Personally I’d find it much more potentially interesting for Charlotte to learn that he killed her uncle, cousin, and stepmother, but I think that ship’s kind of sailed.

And yeah by now like… she’s happily accepted that Griffith hangs out with an army of monsters. I’m pretty sure she could learn exactly what happened during the Eclipse, and if NGriff gave a fuck about keeping her on as an ally/queen at that point he could like, literally just straightforwardly tell her what happened and Charlotte would be like, oh okay. ie: yeah I sacrificed my friends and became an evil demon for a while but now I’m back to human, yk like how the apostles used to eat people but now they help humanity. You know how it is with personified inner darknesses.

lol I feel like I have more to say on this subject wrt Charlotte being the epitome of seeing the image but not the person beneath vs what happens if she finds out, yk like thematically, but I’m about to go to work so I’ll end this here and maybe write more about it later if I think of something worthwhile.

griff-guts
replied to your post

“I mean I genuinely do think (human, obviously) Griffith is by far a…”

lmao i think about this all the time. also audience leniency and sympathy towards guts moral failings is amplified due to him being the narrative point of view and protagonist for the majority of chapters, and in comparison to starkly standard evil characters like apostles, femto, etc he SEEMS to be a good guy, even though realistically he isn’t. the grey morality of berserk extends to literally everyone even guts. it’s like really no coincidence that miura draws guts visually similar to
femto and the apostles
often lol. i mean i can’t insert examples or whatever bc this is just a
rambling reply but i’m sure you’ve seen the comparison posts of guts in
berserker armour or just in battle to femto. it’s like….. so not subtle
that he’s an asshole and not presented as a shining example of perfect
morality yet bc the fandom can’t read and he’s their macho straight guy
testosterone hero he gets a pass for doing bad stuff lol

yeah absolutely lol, like most of the point of Guts’ narrative is that at times he gets pretty damn indistinguishable from demons/monsters even without a magical transformation. Like yeah definitely visually, but tbh it’s also directly stated a lot lol. Like ngl this is actually one of my fave (well, non griffguts) lines:

image

And then once we’re in NeoGriffith’s narrative and meeting the cool apostles, a lot of them seem way better than Guts by any moral standard lol. Grunebeld, Zodd, Irvine.

Like the dock fight really directly compares Guts and Zodd and both of them balancing humanity/reason and bloodlust.

Idk I love this aspect of Berserk basically lol, I’m all about dark monstery protags. And it’s dumb that so many people want to see Guts as an admirable beacon of virtue because that’s like the opposite of the point.

griff-guts
replied to your post “R u familiar with the Castlevania series by any chance? Sorry that…”

i think they might be referring to the video game series?? which is what the anime is based off of. the game series is like on par with dark souls almost in terms of levels of berserk vibes lol

oh if that’s the case then I’m only technically familiar with the series in that I know it exists and I vaguely recall watching my brother play one on nes when I was like 6 lol.

ihni what the later games are like tho now i’m kinda curious since I’ve heard a lot about how Dark Souls is extremely Berserk-y.

griff-guts
replied to your post “huh, i just noticed that the post-zodd chapters w/ guts and griffith’s…”

griffith is the master of guts sword 😉 😉 😉

yk what this works as a d/s joke, a masturbation pun, and as serious analysis

like the chapter title actually does seem like a potential reference to guts dedicating his sword to him now that you mention it. and lol i saw this reply right after posting a long thing about how that moment basically is what motivates guts for the rest of the story

hmmm

griff-guts
replied to your post “Question: Answer:”

post eclipse guts similarly asking himself why femto didn’t kill him during the eclipse….. the drama the angst the parallels….. bitch that’s my SHIT!!!!!!!

yesss man i’d love to see the post-eclipse version so much

i mean we kinda saw it with ngriff wondering why the fuck he’s feeling feelings and the awkward way femto lowers his hand instead of killing guts lol, but i didn’t include them bc there was no “why” phrasing

also like i want neogriffith to make a stupid decision when he and guts cross
paths again so one of his apostles or whoever can be like, “ummm why did
you do that?” and griffith can avoid answering.

griff-guts
replied to your post “ok actually on this subject i’ve been thinking about this recently and…”

as far as i remember guts only ever explicitly comments on appearance/beauty when it comes to griffith (save for those two casca instances already mentioned)

ty for the second opinion!

Yeah like tbf there aren’t a whole pile of examples of Guts commenting on Griffith’s looks either, but he’s also got “bet that’s the first time that pretty face’s ever been hit,” lol. “The more dazzling he is in my eyes” is kind of a grey area since that’s not so much about looks but yk. Dude def waxes poetic about him a lot.

@prettykitten123 said:
But when you think
about it Griffith is the most beautiful person in ths entire manga, abd
looks aside he is also the most intelligent and the most ambitious. Guts
already set the bar too high by falling for Griffith first. Everyone
else just looks like pebbles on the road in comparison to Griffith XD 

lmao true, once you fall for the dude who’s so beautiful it’s an important thematic plot point, you’re kinda screwed.

griff-guts
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post …”

guts choice to leave to prove himself worthy of griffith (thru adventures and physical feats in battle) is classic high medieval knight errant stuff. all he needs to do is slay a dragon and present its head to griffith in offering and then he’s got chivalric courting down pat

this is so good to know

and it’s now canon that he’d present griffith with zodd’s head

griff-guts
replied to your post “griff-guts
replied to your post “ok wait a second tho is fucking…”

lol ya, i’ve been tryna figure out for years if guts can read but all evidence points to negative 😦

lol i’m glad someone else is also invested in whether guts can read or not. it makes the most sense that he wouldn’t be able to considering like, his entire life, but now that i’ve thought of the whole late nights with griffith thing… damn missed opportunity there

griff-guts
replied to your post “ok wait a second tho is fucking guts the one explaining magic here i…”

the first bubble is guts asking “wicker man?”, the second is
schierke responding by saying shes read about it – the little tail on the
second bubble points towards her. we see guts looking at the contents
of a book in vargas’ house in black swordsman arc, but who knows if he
was actually reading it or not. imo theres no way guts can read unless
griff taught him lol, altho im sure he can understand basic stuff like road signs n whatnot

oh shit you’re right i didn’t notice it was two separate bubbles. the phrasing is def v scherike but i was assuming that was a fan translation problem lol

hm both glad bc that would’ve been weird, but also disappointed bc i was kind of into the idea of guts knowing this particular random fact

madchen
replied to your post “like in canon griffith could only admit he loves guts after losing his…”

friends w benefits griffguts is so funny and also terrible lmao

@griff-guts said:
griff: me n guts are
friends w benefits but sometimes after sex he holds me and i fall asleep
in his arms and my chest feels really warm…. and when we don’t cuddle
after sex i get rly sad and hate myself….. but we’re just friends lol
it’s all just meaningless sex for fun!!!

i can’t think of a ship less able to handle it lmao, this is so real.

(and bc i’m still having Thoughts on potential terrible relationship outcomes lol: I feel like griffith would overcompensate and get rly cold and aloof which would terrify guts bc he needs affection and affirmation. like i can’t see griffith maintaining his canon level of regard for guts while adding sex to the mix it would be too Obvious and hard to deny how he really feels. and then guts would back off similarly which would freak griffith out and it would freak him out that he’s freaked out and it would just be off the charts self loathing all around)

griff-guts
replied to your post “griff-guts
replied to your post “The character of Griffith was…”

yeah like i don’t wanna discredit that anons opinion but it’s literally just the appearance that is similar, personality wise oscar and griffith are vastly different. they both have an androgynous look, homoerotic/downright almost canonically gay relationships central to their characters, and seem to subvert conventional gender roles (tho oscar does this quite a lot more) but other than that they’re really nothing alike. oscar is objectively a much much much better person than griffith lol

yeah this makes sense. I’d heard that Griffith was based on Oscar from other people too but I didn’t know myself whether that was just character design or like, everything about them. also ty this only makes me want to read rov more lol.

griff-guts
replied to your post “The character of Griffith was inspired by Rose of Versailles’ heroine…”

im pretty sure miura said griffiths design was inspired by her. so not his actual character, just his appearance. rose of versailles doesn’t seem to have ties with berserk even half as much as devilman, though, and go nagai was listed as a huge inspiration for miura, but either way i guess it’s worth noting that both those works are pretty gay (which i doubt is a coincidence if they inspired berserk lol)

ty for the additional info!

also lol yeah the list of gay shit that inspired Miura is surprisingly (or not so surprisingly lbr) long. he’s also referenced guin saga and kaze to ki no uta as inspirations. and yeah it’s so clear the influence ryokira had on griffguts.

madchen
replied to your post “i want to like, write a longish meta about how guts’ “dream” ie his…”

and yea swords have always represented male power to a phallic degree even pre freudian analysis framework (broken swords symbolize impotence on the flip side) but the visualzzzz in berserk especially in the golden age is good. like griffs sword breaking and then guts shattering later at the eclipse. or the uh unfortunate realization that guts symbolically “castrating griffith” is both metaphorical and probably literal foreshadowing to what happens to griff a few chapters later.

yeah v v true, and ngl along the same lines i have a few (less than positive) Thoughts on Guts holding a broken sword while Femto rapes Casca.

@griff-guts said: oh mannnnn there’s a lot to say about
the broken sword thing lmao i might write a post about it….. same with
guts and griff symbols being a hawk (or white bird in general lol) and a
dog because there’s a LOT of medieval shit to do with that too…..
anyway for the sword thing a sword being broken basically amounts to an
“oh shit” moment where the person loses all ability to control their
situation, and acts of desperation ensue. it has a lot to do with fate
and human control being

ultimately helpless up against fate.

ohhh man I’d love to read a whole post on this sometime! this all seems extremely in line with Berserk and lol I kind of regret never taking any literature classes more advanced than 101 in uni.

griff-guts
replied to your post “i want to like, write a longish meta about how guts’ “dream” ie his…”

also the motif of broken swords/swords being worn blunt is a really interesting one that i don’t see many people talking about, especially if you look at the theme in relation to arthurian/medieval ideas about swords and what they represent… griffiths sword breaking when guts left is especially interesting to me tbh.

oh man you’re right that all the broken swords get more interesting when paired w/ the theme of like, swinging a sword to cope lol. ngl I kind of get stuck on phallic symbols when it comes to broken swords but there’s more to it than that.

+ do you feel up to elaborating on arthurian ideas about what swords represent? because I know nothing about this stuff and I’m v intrigued.

griff-guts
replied to your post “Lucifer and Satan aren’t the same sorry but there aren’t, Satan is…”

in addition to danny’s biblical evidence lemme add that in both dantes divine comedy and miltons paradise lost lucifer = satan, so even if the bible didn’t already explicitly say it, one could draw the conclusion from those works which is tbh where 99% of the cultural understanding of satan and his goals personality etc comes from because there’s actually very little about satan even said in the bible.

v good point.

i mean yeah even if miura is referencing lucifer somewhere i’m very sure it would be the popular conception of him. plus the holy see seems p catholic in particular, speaking of popular conceptions.