I actually don’t know lol. It’s a tough question because I’m not sure how much Miura thinks we should condemn Guts for it – on one hand he’s getting consequences for his actions in the form of Casca hating him and I don’t think it’s likely that she’ll forgive and forget and everything will go swimmingly. On the other I think we’re supposed to feel like he should get a pat on the back for stopping, and we’re definitely not supposed to hate him for it, we’re probably more meant to empathize with him and his loss of control and his regret, and admire the steps he’s taken to protect her from himself by travelling with people, and his willpower in keeping the hound on a leash.
So I guess ideally I’d like their idealized and infatuated images of Guts to be shattered as they realize that he’s capable of some fucked up shit even without the armour. Farnese could get protective of Casca and take off with her and Serpico and whoever in the party wants to follow, quite possibly all of them, give or take Puck and Isidro. Because she’d definitely choose Casca over Guts and that would be nice to see.
But I think it’s more likely that some of them, like Farnese and Serpico, would maybe get a bit warier of him and he might lose some of his shine in Farnese’s eyes, but overall consider it a past mistake he’s overcome and atoned for, and just another signifier of how much of a struggle it is to be Guts akin to how they feel about how Guts + Berserker armour = trying to murder them all. Yk like it makes Serpico anxious but no one blames him for it even though it’s his own inability to control his rage that leads to the armour taking over without magical hand-holding to save everyone from him.
Idk that’s at my most cynical. Don’t get me wrong I love Guts and his narrative for the most part, I just think aspects of it and the magical fantasy metaphor of the Berserk armour, hound, etc aren’t handled as well as they could be lol.
Anyway it’d probably be something between those two extremes tbf.
This is interesting though. Since every major person in Guts life has at some point been ‘weak’ and in need of care which Guts has in reality always offered with enthusiasm.
Whether with Gambino, Shisu, Griffith or Casca
I seriously love this about Guts during the Black Swordsman and Conviction arcs, bc like, he is actually a natural caretaker and… yk offerer of comfort and help. It’s the very first act that defines him when he’s 3 years old and steps up to take Shizu’s hand. He genuinely has a pressing urge to help people in need, from overworked suicidal people to tortured ex bfs to parental figures to like, flowers.
And from the start Miura wasn’t trying to show a dude just letting his inner asshole shine through bc he’s had a bad time, he’s depicting a dude actively suppressing his own caring nature partly because anyone who gets close to him is probably going to die thanks to the brand, partly because it’s a distraction from his goal of revenge, and partly because he has some serious issues revolving around betrayal that got reawakened recently and he’s guarding his heart.
Like the second chapter when he decides whatever he’ll let this priest and this kid give him a ride and who gives a fuck what happens to them feels like a deliberate attempt on his part to Not Care About Them that totally fails.
And it’s why it’s so fitting that the very last thing he does in the Black Swordsman arc is instinctively save Theresia even after telling her to kill herself, and then cry about the fact that he just ruined this kid’s life and turned her into a proto-him.
Ooh actually to take that a step further, the hound is basically something he actively created himself, out of the darkest parts of his nature, as a form of self-protection. So it’s like, super fitting that it got transplanted into a living suit of armour.
i can’t handle this lmao, like the fact that guts is fucking pouting and charlie-brown-walking away because neogriffith didn’t give him the time of day, actually directly comparing it to when he walked out on Griffith and ruined his life, is incredible to me.
like what do redditbro types, the ones who see berserk as an uncomplicated tale of a dude who hates another dude who ruined his life and wants revenge against him, do with this bit?
But also while i’m on this, while I find it absolutely delightful if I don’t think too
hard about it, on another level this moment really pisses me off lol, because
it’s yet another instance of the narrative showing us how gay for Griffith
Guts is by throwing Casca under the bus. Guts just met the dude he wants
revenge against in part for raping Casca, and his reaction is 😦 i
feel abandoned 😦
And it’s great when I ignore the Eclipse as
I usually do, because it’s more fun to enjoy moments like this rather than seethe about them, but when I take it into account it’s like, fucking
seriously? we’re supposed to sympathize with this asshole who cares more
about his evil senpai noticing him than the fact that he’s an evil demon
who raped his friend/lover and just said ‘lol idgaf’ about it?
i can’t handle this lmao, like the fact that guts is fucking pouting and charlie-brown-walking away because neogriffith didn’t give him the time of day, actually directly comparing it to when he walked out on Griffith and ruined his life, is incredible to me.
like what do redditbro types, the ones who see berserk as an uncomplicated tale of a dude who hates another dude who ruined his life and wants revenge against him, do with this bit?
I find this panel really interesting because it kinda foreshadows Guts inability to look at an unideal situation and say it is unideal when changing it seems beyond his capacity.
lol yeah my first reaction to it was, really, Guts? tbh idk if it’s so much denial as a kind of ridiculous amount of optimism and looking on the bright side. I feel like it’s not so much Guts going ‘everything is great this is super nice’ after hearing about all the shit the Hawks have gone through in the last year, and more Guts focusing on the fact that the core group is still together and he’s happy to see all his bros again.
Bc yk despite everything, Guts is a serious optimist. And I kind of love that about him even though it’s the source of like, half his problems (I’ll just take off and become Griffith’s equal and surely this will be fine and cause no problems at all. Griffith is perfect he could never lose his composure. Everyone’s still alive and together therefore things are fine oh shit Casca’s 30 seconds away from killing herself fuck. Griffith will be ok he’s just like his old self everything will be fine. Griffith totally wouldn’t sacrifice everyone this is all a mistake. I can and will murder everything and nothing’s gonna stand in my way. Casca will be all right trapped in a dank cave for the rest of her life w/e. Maybe Griffith regrets what he did now that he’s more human-y. I can take Casca to get healed nbd I don’t need anyone’s help. etc etc)
So yeah ia with what you said, it’s part of how Guts’ optimism isn’t necessarily a good trait all the time. Because sometimes when he doesn’t know what to do (eg how to help post-torture Griffith), or when he doesn’t want to do something (eg deal with Casca after the Eclipse), he does pretend that everything is fine and will just work out somehow. It’s a very endearing flaw to me lol, but still a flaw.
Casca babe. I still don’t know why the fuck you would say that. It makes zero sense.
Tbh at this point I felt things were happening, only because they had to happen, even if it made no sense to anyone to act like this. Like Casca saying this, as if it still mattered what Griffith saw as a equal. Like Guts acting as if not realizing how severe Griffith’s injuries were and saying he will swing that sword again. Like the Band throwing a fucking tantrum how their future is ruined, while Griffith was 5 steps away and probably listening. Like even Guts and Casca having this talk there, as if he wasn’t sleeping nearby… the amount of moments, where everyone was being inconsiderate was so huge, that it felt kind of…. forced to me 😮 Either this or at this point they had all stopped seeing Griffith as a person already.
And tbh, there was no going back from there on in my opinion, even if he had never been offered to sacrifice them, even if he had accepted living in a broken body, he wouldn’t have accepted being their mascot.
Yeah, I completely agree actually.
Like of course at this point Miura was trying to take the plot to the eclipse so maybe everything doesn’t make sense from character consistency point of view.
But really if we leave that aside this arc really was evidence that both of what Wyald said and what we knew of Griffith’s apprehensions were almost completely justified.
Like it really just came across as if nobody actually gave a shit about griffith as a fucking human being. And it was upsetting because all this while, we were thinking how Griffith was wrong and being pessimistic and he should maybe stop distancing himself so much. But then griffith was absolutely right all along.
It really just seemed like everyone was waiting for griffith because of the usefulness he’d have to their lives. The moment it became clear that he wouldn’t be able to do that, they immediately ran to Guts to leave with him instead.
Like notice how no one else even tries to visit him after that, I mean yeah okay, you were throwing around words like love before, but okay.
yes , they most probably wouldn’t have abandoned him but that would most probably be because such a thing would be ‘distasteful’ rather than anything else. I mean you might be right about the fact that they’ve already stopped seeing him as a person at this point.
And honestly even with Casca, like this really rubbed me the wrong way- but she has this little bit of internal monologue where she says “Yes now it’s my turn to fulfill this duty. ” And that sense of duty is repeated when she tells Guts that she can’t leave with him. And wow. So it’s DUTY now ? Like a couple of chapters ago you were wondering why he’d chose Charlotte to bed instead of you and were being jealous of the fact. And now it’s only your sense of duty holding you back. Like honestly I thought you loved this person? Wow for consistency.
I mean I remember Griffith saying in the lake, while hurting himself that the only thing he can do for his men is to keep winning.
And really he was right.
That’s all they want from him and that’s all that he’s good for in their eyes.
tbh this never bothered me from a writing perspective because it felt very realistic to me
it’s not good and it doesn’t reflect well on the hawks, but it seems consistent because none of them ever gave a fuck about griffith as a person except guts and casca. judeau practically flat out said it during his first chat with guts, when he said everyone followed griffith for his charisma but he couldn’t really say what kind of a man he is.
and it’s partially griffith’s fault for distancing himself. you can’t expect people to care about you as a person if they only know you as a flawless leader. but it’s also definitely dickish of the hawks – but the kind of dickish that doesn’t seem out of place imo, especially in berserk’s shitty world where if you’re accepting that half the men casca runs into want to rape her, ableism doesn’t seem like a stretch.
also in fairness, only corkus made a scene when casca announced the news, and that’s pretty in character for him, and there was only like, maybe a couple hours between that and the eclipse, during most of which griffith was asleep, so there wasn’t much opportunity for people to visit him, or even sort out their feelings beyond abject disappointment that their hopes are dashed.
i actually love casca and judeau telling guts to leave while he’s trying to say he wants to stay, because they are treating griffith as an inevitable burden someone has to deal with, and guts is the only one who isn’t. judeau has his, i’ll take some hawks, start a thieves gang and take care of him, because it’s the least i could do for all he’s done for us. plus being ‘self sacrificing’ for casca’s sake lol.
casca’s feelings are more complex but they also work for me – because she wanted to leave with guts after rescuing griffith and try to move on from her feelings for griffith, and now he needs her, and she’s someone who wants to be needed, so it’s like just as she had hope that she could move on she’s back to square one. also tbh her attitude strikes me as more evidence that she never really loved Griffith, just admired him.
and they both expect guts to view him as a burden so they encourage him to leave – because according to those rules of the battlefield judeau likes to cite so much, he’s no longer a hawk so griffith isn’t his responsibility.
and guts partially wants to stay out of guilt probably, but based on his actions at the start of the eclipse it seems clear that he, more than anyone else in the hawks, still just genuinely likes griffith and wants to be with him in some capacity. he’s the one who speaks out when the godhand says griffith is one of them, he supports and holds him until they’re forcibly separated and then he climbs up to griffith to try to save him, and he refuses to believe griffith sacrificed everyone for quite a while.
idk basically it’s harsh and depressing but it works for me largely bc i never got the sense that anyone except guts genuinely liked griffith as a person, even casca. well charlotte i guess, but w/e. even she believed he’d recover when she wanted to stay with him.
Anyway, on Griffith always facing away in Guts’ memories:
Guts left Griffith in the snow in an attempt to become Griffith’s equal. When he came back, by all standards of measurement these two dudes give a fuck about, Guts is by far his superior. Griffith was broken by Guts leaving, then broken by torture, and is dependent physically and emotionally on him.
It’s a very be careful what you wish for thing lol.
However, one side-effect of the Eclipse, not intended by Griffith but intended by the narrative, is it’s a reset button on their stupid power dynamic obsession – Guts has another shot at achieving his dream, ironic as that is.
Guts left, when he came back he discovered in as brutal a way as possible that he left for no reason. The fact that his leaving destroyed Griffith was proof that his attempt to become Griffith’s equal was based on misinformation. However, after the Eclipse, Griffith is a god and now Guts is back at square one.
This is basically directly stated when Guts thinks of Griffith’s friendship speech while declaring war on him.
So I think part of the reason he usually remembers Griffith with his back turned is basically because he’s in a cycle of pursuing him, first to stand beside him, and now to drag him down to him.
Which begs 2 questions imo:
1. Can Guts break free of this cycle? 2. Does Guts need to pursue Griffith at all to be his equal, or does the irony of the Golden Age (I left to be your equal but turns out I already was lol whoops) still hold true? ie, how emotionally compromised is NeoGriff?
I mentioned a while ago that the first time I feel we got a real visual* glimpse of Guts’ hound-esque inner darkness chronologically was during the rescue mission.
The way he cuts out the torturer’s tongue is very reminiscent of his tendency to torture apostles before killing them imo (which probably has its origins in the way he killed Donovan), and then he just rampages through the castle like a demonic one-man army, very black swordsman ish.
Look at this imagery like:
(i love Casca’s ‘holy shit dude’ expression)
Plus you got Charlotte saying he scares her, and the Wyald fight is when everyone starts comparing Guts to a monster and saying he’s inhuman.
So I was thinking – why? Why would we get this before the Eclipse, before he starts killing ghosts and infusing his sword with Essence of Darkness, before the brand + killing monsters make him literally superhuman? Why do we get our first look at monster slaying, revenge-obsessed, black swordsman Guts a day and only a day before the main event, the point of which is to make him revenge-obsessed, even takes place?
And I want to suggest that it’s because this is it – this is Guts’ revenge spree. It’s not one revenge spree that ends, followed immediately by another unrelated revenge spree. It’s the same rage. He killed the torturer like he kills apostles, then he fought an actual apostle to defend Griffith, then the Eclipse happened and he declared war.
It’s all intimately connected in Guts’ mind and emotions:
He started off on a vengeful rampage for Griffith in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt, and he continued on a vengeful rampage against Femto/NeoGriffith, also in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt.
We know this because as he’s running towards Griffith in the torture chamber Guts thinks about how it’s his fault that Griffith is there without actually coming to a proper conclusion (if that’s the case… then I –) – and he reaches that conclusion (was I the one who brought all this upon you?) right as he’s running towards Griffith at the site of the Eclipse. Guts’ guilt is strongly associated with his rage this way. Guilt followed by external target followed by lashing out.
Idk, there’s just such a through line to me from Casca telling him it’s his fault to the Eclipse. The most significant moments of Guts’ internal thoughts are given to him processing this information and finally concluding that he fucked up right before the Eclipse begins. The Eclipse didn’t then erase his feelings of guilt, it just let him continue to repress those feelings and gave him acceptable targets to lash out at instead of dealing with his feelings.
Now this is a bold statement, but I think that in a way, rampage part 1, kill half the soldiers of Midland, and rampage part 2, kill demons, are both about Guts avenging Griffith – the latter only in part ofc, because the rest of the Hawks need to be avenged too now.
Because the thing is, I think he still sees Griffith as a victim. After finally acknowledging that Griffith did sacrifice everyone, he still looks back at him wistfully. He thinks of Griffith while flashing back to the lost Hawks after the Eclipse. He tells Rickert that NeoGriffith isn’t the Griffith he knows (incidentally something Rickert repeats to NeoGriffith later, which NGriff acknowledges). He flashes back to Griffith in the snow a lot. To Guts, Griffith isn’t his friend who turned out to be a dick, Griffith is his friend who basically committed fantasy murder/suicide after being tortured for a year because Guts broke him by leaving.
His feelings towards Femto/NeoGriff are complicated and fucked up as all hell, but while his feelings for Griffith feed into his complicated feelings for Femto/NeoGriff, his hatred for F/NG doesn’t retroactively affect his feelings towards human Griffith. They’ve remained pretty solidly longing, guilt, love, regret. He’s not thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and feeling rage at what he would go on to do a year later, he’s thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and trying to find a way to atone for it. Griffith is still explicitly part of the “campfire from those days still [burning in his] chest.”
Idk basically I just wanted to say that a part of Guts’ fuel for his revenge rampage was feeling responsible for Griffith’s pain and not being able to save Griffith from it, both the first time against Midland and the second time against the Godhand, and I chose a very long drawn-out way to do that.
* I specify visual glimpse bc i think there’s a solid argument that it’s there when he kills Donovan, based on the way he taunts him and tortures him briefly first, but we don’t have any of the ragey demonic imagery associated with Guts’ darkness there – he just looks like a kid. So I feel like it works as a point of origin for a lot of Guts’ dark vengeful urges (Donovan is the first monster he killed), but he wasn’t anywhere close to losing himself to darkness then.
ok i’ve been trying to write a long involved thing but yk what fuck it i’m gonna be pithy for once and just point something out:
to guts, neogriffith and casca evoke similar feelings. they’re both former friends, now utterly changed, walking around reminding guts of the unreachable past. he turned his focus to casca after neogriffith showed up looking like the old griffith and acting like a stranger. physically reachable but emotionally unreachable.
and i think there’s an argument in there that guts is so wrapped up in fixing casca, despite acknowledging to himself that there’s a good chance it’s not even in her best interests, in part because he can’t do anything to fix griffith.
The fact that Guts decides to pursue an equal
relationship with Griffith after hearing the speech is what singles his
relationship with Griffith out as unique. Everyone else in Griffith’s life is content to
either look up at or down on him.
Even the Princess, his future wife,
just marvels at the speech while literally looking up at him, rather than showing any desire to find a
dream herself and become “worthy” of calling herself his equal.
Because Guts is the only one who wants to genuinely connect with
Griffith – who wants to stand beside him by achieving something of his own – Guts is Griffith’s only “true” relationship, the only
relationship he has based on real affection and genuine desire for the
person, and not just what he represents, either as a symbol of hope and achievement (for the Hawks), a symbol of security and happiness (for Charlotte) or a symbol of corruption and loss of power (for those plotting against him).
Which just makes it so wonderfully ironic that Guts is the only one who made Griffith forget his dream.
Yes. Though we have to add that Guts perceives Griffith still as someone “different from a normal human being”.
His perplexed reaction that Griffith has weaknesses, when he comes back…or that he could be the reason for that.
I think it is more like…Guts wasn t aware that he didn t had to climb the mountain, but maybe just had to look at Griffith differently.
tbh i spent a good chunk of my golden age re-read pondering how guts and casca relate to griffith in different, opposing ways, and never coming to any proper conclusions
but i find it interesting that guts does see griffith as different, and godlike, and perfect (at least after overhearing the speech) while casca sees him as a vulnerable, real person with insecurities and issues of his own, and keeps trying to tell guts that.
and yet casca is the one who showers him with worship while guts treats him with irreverence, disobeying his orders, insisting they go and hang out with him after casca muses over how “distant” he is after a battle, questioning him, letting loose and acting playful around him, deliberately placing himself to protect griffith at the battle of doldrey, “he’s the only person i can’t stand looking down on me,” etc.
i have a vague idea that the discrepency between how guts thinks of him vs how guts treats him is at least partially bc guts planned to uproot his life and abandon his friends to get on griffith’s level, which lbr is a bad decision to make if you don’t believe griffith is on a level somewhere way above you, so he subconsciously ignores and deflects all indications that griffith is just a flawed person in his singleminded focus on his own “dream.”
which is similar to what i perceive griffith does wrt his own dream. like, if the castle is what shines in griffith’s mind, then griffith is what shines in guts’ mind. and i feel like griffith also has to subconsciously convince himself that his dream is worth pursuing despite the negative consequences. ~parallels
and omg yes @ your last sentence. i rly think the golden age was all about false perceptions, yk?
fun fact guts has always had a dream and it’s not “fight tough dudes at exhibitions” or “fight monsters” or “avenge the hawks” or “be the best at the sword”
griffith’s dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
which is why this is so utterly cutting:
and why this just left guts totally dejected and made him give up that dream:
and why if guts finds out that griffith’s heart is bthumping for him that’s going to be either a serious game-changer, or a serious test of guts’ resolve in moving on from his dream.
like a traditional narrative would have guts going on his fix casca sidequest, which is overall framed as A Good Thing, succeeding, and then getting a reward at the end in the form of a loving sane gf because he Did Good.
Berserk instead fills it with ominous foreshadowing because yeah Guts is growing as a person and trying to do good, but it’s not that simple. When he first chose Casca over Griffith he was a huge danger to her and he needed companions to mitigate that danger, and she’s still afraid of him. Guts’ motives are also in question – for one it’s suggested that he’s being selfish in trying to fix Casca because he’s not taking her needs into account (”That’s right, she went to pieces because she can’t fully cope with it. What will she do if she does get her sanity back?”), and for another, he was still planning to ditch Casca again right up until Griffith showed up and soundly rejected him, suggesting that part of his motivation for trying to move on from his obsession with Griffith is straight up spite.
Nothing in Berserk is ever simple and pure and uncomplicated. No motive, no goal, no relationship, no emotion.
Guts is overall doing a whole lot better than he was during the Black Swordsman revenge rampage fiasco. He’s made new friends, he’s subdued his inner beast for now, he’s maturing, etc. But the same was true of Guts during the Golden Age. I don’t think anything as bad as the Eclipse is going to go down, but the way Berserk rolls, you don’t get an A for Effort. Guts had a very noble goal when he chose to leave the Hawks, and it was still a mistake.
Guts has learned from his mistakes enough to recognize that friends are more important than stupid dreams and he’s embodying that lesson now, but I suspect there’s a new one waiting around the corner: not just ‘you can’t force back what was lost’ but ‘if you try anyway be prepared for the consequences.’
@yesgabsstuff said:
The poor man.
Seriously like he’s stuck in this hell of idealizing people that hurt
him. Even as an adult he’s not able to really see Gambino as both his
father and the person who was responsible for his rape. The Eclipse
always felt like a similar rape by proxy situation to me.
Totally, like… the way Miura writes as far as I can tell from interviews is that he doesn’t plan stuff out much, but as he goes he’s very good at recalling what he’s already written and picking up threads and using older material to enrich newer material. So while I don’t think Casca’s rape was planned from the beginning, I do think it might be purposeful that it mirrors Guts’ original trauma in that Gambino is Guts’ rapist by proxy, and Guts is Femto’s victim by proxy.
Which, disclaimer, I think is v misogynist bs and an immense disservice to Casca, but she 100% is there as a bridge between Griffith/Femto and Guts. Like if Femto’s laser stare at Guts isn’t enough then the Hound explicitly spelling it out by telling Guts to assault her to be closer to Griffith p much cinches it.
I feel like he does the same splitting
thing with Griffith after the speech. It’s very indicative of having
lived in an abusive, invalidating environment that he holds a monster
and man “who did his best” almost as two separate people in his memory.
Also, having to get up the next day as though his rape never happened is
pretty much the ultimate in invalidation. His survival as a child
certainly required him to have this idealized view of Gambino but it
takes a long time to grow out of that. He
does it to a less extreme extent with Casca too.
Oooh this is a great insight – the fact that Guts can’t reconcile the “dark” and “light” parts of a person also feels incredibly thematically relevant. In Griffith/Femto’s case they are literally almost separate people, and Guts draws a distinction between them, when, eg, he tells Rickert “that’s not the Griffith you knew.” But when it comes to Gambino, Guts is just unable to accept the fact that he betrayed him in such a horrific way. He denies it for years at first, and then when Gambino himself tells him that he sold him, it’s like he chooses to focus on the guilt of killing him and represses the fact of his betrayal.
With Griffith and the speech, it explains why, rather than realizing that the speech doesn’t invalidate the fact that Griffith still risked his life for him for no reason, it takes over his perception of Griffith to such a huge extent that he denies everything that belies it (eg do i need a reason, do you think i’m cruel, etc) as irrelevant, until it finally becomes impossible for him to dismiss all those moments. Guts is just not good at reconciling disparate parts of a person.
And with Casca it makes sense that he treats her current state as an aberration that needs to be fixed so she can return to being the person in his memories, and adds a layer to the ominous foreshadowing that he’s rushing her to ill effect when she’s dealing with the trauma in her own way on her own time.
I feel like I know Guts a little better now actually. Like, he’s still not bad at understanding people, but these are where his blind spots are.
And like Griffith
assuming he’s being abandoned because he’s “dirty” and fundamentally
unlovable? It’s both of their trauma reactions that caused all of this
to happen. (I’m not implying that any of what happened after he left was
Guts’ fault, just that his reaction triggered another.)
Ok now this is something I was actually thinking about earlier today when I was talking about how totally purposeful the gay subtext is. I didn’t go into it because it’s a weaker point and I’m not sure I have a full grasp on it, but this comment actually fills in a gap for me and makes this point more solid to me.
Because yes! Their respective traumas inform and deepen the meaning of both of their “breakups.” I’ve written an essay before on Griffith’s issues with feeling “dirty” and how that’s a direct line from Gennon to thinking Guts is walking away from him in disgust. And ofc the eclipse is a mirror of Guts’ initial trauma, Griffith is a parallel to Gambino particularly at the bitter end of his mortal life, and Guts’ inability to understand that the Hawks were his home and Griffith loved him is, like you were saying up above, the same type of thinking Guts used to deny that Gambino sold him, and probably started there.
So I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest that part of the point of all the sexual trauma in these characters’ pasts is to inform some of their bad decisions in the present.
I mentioned the gay subtext and this is a little beside the actual point, but the fact that Miura heaped it on and verbally suggested it when they meet, both characters have sexual trauma, and everything bad happens because they misunderstand each other due to, one can make a solid argument for, that trauma and split up… well it seems like a pretty good depiction of how trauma can fuck up your life and future potential relationships.
I mean at its core Berserk is a story about reacting to trauma. It’s right there in the title. So it never feels irrelevant to tie things back to it imo.
Time to finally lay out my thoughts on these parallels and contrasts between Gambino, Griffith and Femto/NeoGriff.
Ok so starting with Human Golden Age 100% Certified Organic Griffith, even tho the parallels start off strong in the Black Swordsman arc, whatever, we’ll go chronologically.
Griffith is everything Gambino never was, but that Guts needed him to be. Dude has daddy issues, let’s be real here, and Griffith was a bigger, better, brighter Gambino who actually loved him. Who risked his life to save him and didn’t even have a reason. To Gambino he was p much only worth the money he brought in, but to Griffith he was worth risking his life for, for no reason or reward at all. Griffith in turn is similar to Gambino in that he’s a mercinary leader with a hold over Guts, but he’s otherwise superior in every way. More noble than Gambino in that he’s driven by ideals rather than money, has greater ambitions, greater skill, better manners, better morals, etc.
He was another person Guts respected, admired, and looked up to, and another person who Guts desperately wanted to have look at him, with some v explicit comparisons drawn by the manga:
After the Zodd debacle but before the Promrose Hall speech is a period of just about limitless potential for them. Guts accepts that Griffith loves him, or at least feels some kind of strong emotions for him – he recognizes the significance of the words “for your sake” here – and returns the sentiment by pledging his sword to him.
I don’t know if this is the answer I was searching for or not… but for now… For now I’ll wield my sword. For his sake.
Look at that – recalling the night he killed Gambino just before he pledges his sword to Griffith. Replacing one man with a new, vastly improved version.
This is also why the Promrose Hall speech hits him so hard, imo. Because for a brief period here Guts knew some extent of Griffith’s feelings, and the speech ripped that knowledge away and made him feel insignificant in Griffith’s eyes. We the audience know perfectly well that Griffith is head over heels regardless of the speech, but all Guts knows is he isn’t seen as Griffith’s friend/equal and he desperately wants to be. Because he needs him to be that better version of Gambino who actually loves him, not Gambino all over again.
Of course unlike Gambino, Guts’ perception of Griffith is based on a misconception, likely fueled and heightened by his own issues. Guts doesn’t get to see Griffith crash and burn when he leaves and then contemplate how brightly he shines within him, even compared to his castle, but we do.
Anyway so Guts inadvertantly breaks everything, fast forward a year and Griffith, like Gambino was for a time, is now disabled and dependant and really fucked up about it. Like Gambino he blames Guts, though unlike Gambino he still loves and almost immediately forgives Guts, and also unlike Gambino Griffith’s state actually is in part because of Guts (ofc you can’t blame Guts for Griffith’s own shitty decision-making, but you also can’t dismiss the fact that Guts leaving without explanation caused Griffith to have a breakdown lol). And, finally, like Gambino, this culminates in lashing out at Guts.
Gambino irrationally blames Guts for the death of his lover and all his bad luck since, Griffith blames Guts for making him fall in love with him (”only you made me forget my dream.”). Very different reasons, very similar result.
Now, and this isn’t a direct parallel imo but it’s one that I feel may be somewhat suggested, Guts blames himself for both Gambino’s death, and Griffith’s “death.”
Gambino was a terrible person who Guts killed accidentally in self defense, and he still has serious guilt issues because of it. When he has a flashback his panicky explanation to Casca ends with him crying and saying, “I’m sorry Gambino. Father…” Guts acknowledges and understands that Gambino betrayed him but that doesn’t make his feelings about him simple, and it doesn’t lessen his guilt.
I think this is also a large part of the reason Guts takes ages to stop hacking at Femto’s egg and trying to save Griffith after “I sacrifice.” Because he does blame himself. And even after he admits to himself that Griffith did betray him, this is how he looks back before leaving and fighting more monsters:
Anyway this brings me to Femto I guess.
In a way the Black Swordsman arc is a version of Guts’ missing years between Gambino and the Hawks: cursed and a bad omen, but now very literally because he draws evil spirits who kill people who get too close. “You should have died eleven years ago beneath your mother’s corpse!” = you should’ve died when you were sacrificed during the Eclipse.
Routine fighting to survive vs literally fighting every night to survive thanks to the brand.
Continuing on after killing Gambino vs continuing on after Griffith becomes Femto, with hints of survivor’s guilt all around, and strong visual comparisons:
But the real parallels are in how he responds to Femto.
Guts still craves acknowledgement.
His first reaction isn’t raaaagh I’ll kill you, that’s what he does after Femto dismisses him to focus on the issue at hand. His first reaction is hurt followed by, straight up, a need to be acknowledged. This scene starts with Guts basically fighting for attention, powering through his attack on Femto while the rest of the Godhand cheers him on until Femto knocks him into a wall and they move on to the Count’s backstory. Void even tries to get them back on track and then has his ‘…okay ANYWAY’ moment lmao (Enough of the sideshow.)
Same thing happens when he meets NeoGriff for the first time. His initial reaction isn’t to swing his sword at him, it’s to let Rickert hold him back while he pleads for him to acknowledge his betrayal (which, as this post points out, is similar to his morning confrontation with Gambino).
In fact, there’s a pretty interesting contrast drawn just in the Gambino
chapters – when Gambino lashes out and gives him the scar on the bridge
of Guts’ nose, he admits he might’ve been a dick and gives Guts
medicine for it. “Perhaps it was for no other reason than to soothe his
guilty conscience.” When Gambino sells him to Donovan, he doesn’t even acknowledge what he did let alone regret it, and even throws it in Guts’ face to hurt him a couple years later.
But this comes back after Guts’ flashback.
Despite just violently reliving the worst thing Gambino did to him, the last thing he thinks of is his seemingly contradictory mild kindness.
NeoGriffith never gives him the regret he wants him to feel either. But despite that:
My point is that Guts’ feelings are just as complex towards Femto/NeoGriffith as they are towards Gambino. He feels betrayal and rage, but also inadequacy, guilt, and a continuing desire to be looked at and acknowledged. He’s still driven by a v basic need to make Gambino proud – it transferred to Griffith during the Golden Age, and now it’s still there, complicating his hatred.
Which ties into the larger themes of Berserk, the good and evil in the heart of humanity. Gambino demonstrates this subtly – he’s a dick who shows just enough complexity and v mild compassion for Guts to crave more kindness from him. He’s very human in a very negative way. Griffith is the larger-than-life fantasy equivalent, who starts out as a positive version of Gambino – loves and is interested in Guts, behaves selflessly for him, is admirable in a fantasy-hero kind of way, etc – and literally transforms into a personification of evil, becoming a more heightened version of all the negative humanity in Gambino.
re-reading black swordsman stuff for my gambino/griffith comparison post and i just want to point this out with visuals this time. the sheer number of guts/griff parallels during this arc is ridic but this is my fave.
you're the only one 