Tag: b

After looking into some of your meta, what’s your personal opinion on Judeau and his actions affecting the development of Guts’, Griffith’s, and Casca’s relationship?

Judeau’s clear agenda in the back half of the Golden Age is hilarious to me because it’s like Miura couldn’t get Guts and Casca to fuck naturally, so he had to make it a side character’s sole mission in life to arrange their hook up.

But actually to be less cynical, I think it works very well with the overall tone and thematic takeaway from the Golden Age. Why was Judeau meddling? Well, it’s strongly suggested that it’s because he was in love with Casca himself, but didn’t consider himself worthy of her. He thought Guts would be better for her, and that Casca would be better off traveling with Guts than leading the remnants of the Hawks, so he shoved Guts at her until they boned.

And look how that turned out.

Moral of the Golden Age: tell people how you feel instead of just assuming you’re not good enough for them.

And like, something I really love about Judeau’s character is that he seems to fill that character trope of friend who gives good advice and lays out some of the story’s themes and nudges the protagonist in the right direction for the plot. But like everyone else in Berserk he’s more layered than that – he has his own reasons for saying the things he does and directing Guts the way he does, and those reasons are kind of based in low self esteem. He’s another factor that helps bring everyone to the Eclipse.

Sometimes he does give good advice, but sometimes he gives genuinely bad advice, because he’s biased.

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And I think there’s a potential parallel between Judeau trying to set Guts and Casca up, and Guts trying to set Casca and Griffith up before he leaves. Guts feels unworthy of Griffith because he doesn’t have a dream, but Casca does, so he shoves her at Griffith to get her to take his place as his sword, but yk with added romance because heteronormativity.

It’s not unbiased-dude-trying-to-be-a-good-bro-for-his-friends advice, Judeau’s own issues are a factor in him trying to get Guts and Casca together.

Judeau feels unworthy of Casca because idk he’s insecure about being a jack of all trades, master of none lol, so he considers Guts, who is the best at least next to Griffith, more worthy of Casca and tries to get them together.

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And in his dying moments, he knows he fucked up. That he should’ve just said something.

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And yk what, he may think Guts is more worthy of Casca because he’s the best at something, but Guts was up on top of a giant hand trying to save Griffith long after that stopped making sense as a course of action while Judeau was down here trying to survive with Casca, and I think we all know who Casca appreciated more in this moment.

There’s something to be said for just being there with someone instead of leaving them in the snow/trying to convince a dude to sling her over his shoulder and run lol. Same with how Judeau was with Casca throughout the year of hiding and trying to survive while Guts was fucking off on his eat pray love vacation.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we’re meant to see Judeau/Casca as a tragic missed connection and the better alternative to Guts and Casca getting together.

(On a personal note I don’t actually like the idea of Judeau/Casca both bc it’s het lol but also since it’s just, yk, dude pines, wants the girl but meddles in her life for her own good, Casca’s feelings towards Judeau aren’t explored at all, etc. But the way Miura portrayed Judeau’s regret and his presence vs Guts’ absence makes me think that the takeaway is that in the best version of events Judeau would’ve told Casca how he felt and they would’ve got together. And thematically that fits imo.)

Also while I’m on this topic, I want to take yet another opportunity to point this great moment out:

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hmmmmmmmmmmm

Judeau then immediately segues the conversation to the whole “Casca’s life sucks right now, you need to save her from it, etc” bit.

But I fucking love this moment specifically because it’s telling us that not only is Judeau overtly meddling to get Casca and Guts to hook up, but Judeau believes that Guts knowing how Griffith really feels about him will impede his plans.

And I mean it’s true, he wants Guts to leave with Casca and when Guts realizes how hard he fucked up and how much Griffith desperately needs him and always did he wants to stay. But it’s just such a nice touch to tell us that Guts and Casca… only work in the absence of Griffith. Guts gets with Casca when he falsely believes Griffith looks down on him. Guts chooses to stay with Griffith when he’s convinced he was wrong about that.

(And post-Eclipse, Guts abandons Casca for his revenge campaign, and chooses to stay with her when NeoGriffith says unequivocally that he’s over him now lol.)

It adds to the sense that Guts and Casca are both rebounding from Griffith, and they only work together as long as they both want to distance themselves from him. When he’s back in their life they get weird and jealous immediately, and then they both independently choose not to leave the Hawks together (Guts telling Judeau he wants to stay, followed by Casca telling Guts she can’t leave with him) and Casca tries to break up with him lol.

what do u think are guts and griffs favorite physical and not physical qualities of the other 🤔

Ooh okay this is fun.

Guts’ favourite physical quality of Griffith’s:

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[insert more picspam here, we all know Guts is fixated]

let’s be real, it’s the hair.

Griffith’s favourite physical quality of Guts’:

I was gonna say something like his buff arms, or his strength in general, and I think that would also be a legit answer, but yk what I’m going with

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I think I just wanna say Guts’ face in general. Like maybe this is just Miura failing to properly objectify his point of view manly man protagonist, but when he’s making Griffith’s heart flutter his heavy brows and intense focused stare tend to be pretty prominent.

Also I’d argue that Miura kind of emphasizes Guts’ rugged handsomeness this way during/after the rescue mission, when the love triangle’s rearranging itself to put Guts in the centre:

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moreso than at any other point in the story. So yeah.

Guts’ favourite non-physical quality of Griffith’s:

Ok this one’s tricky because I want to say Griffith’s like, larger than lifeness. His respectability, leadership abilities, ambition, that whole package, because that’s what makes his attention that much more valuable to Guts. He doesn’t want just anyone’s attention, he wants Griffith’s attention, because Griffith is the coolest guy he knows lol.

But! Like the entire point of the Golden Age is Guts learning that he’s been prioritizing the wrong aspects of Griffith. And obviously I don’t think Guts only liked Griffith because of his image lol, just that Guts really valued that image because like… he wants to be admired by someone admirable.

But I’m also going to say Griffith’s playfulness, because there’s something there that grabbed Guts early on, not just something he admired but something he genuinely liked, and I always come back to the waterfight. Guts has never had a friend his own age before, and he’s never had a chance to be a kid in his life. The waterfight is I can only assume the first time Guts fought just for fun.

And despite all the smokescreens of status and admirability and godliness etc, at the end of the day they just genuinely like each other, they like hanging out and having fun together.

Maybe you can say it’s both in combination – the fact that he’s larger than life, but has this more human, real side of him that is reachable and that he can genuinely connect with. It’s what makes Griffith’s “superiority” something he loves and wants to live up to, rather than something he resents.

Idk.

Griffith’s favourite non-physical quality of Guts’:

His determination. Whether it’s used against him, like during their first duel (or post Eclipse), or to fight for him, or to protect him, I think Guts’ willingness to do anything in a fight makes him swoon. One reason he refuses to try to reign him in despite Casca complaining that Guts gets away with everything lol. And one reason his heart started beating while he watched him fight Zodd.

What do you think? I kind of just stuck really close to things basically stated in canon but I think there are better, and probably shippier/more fun answers lol. If you have alternative suggestions I want to hear them.

seisans
replied to your post “Okay but how come guts reacts this way when seeing griff tortured face…”

this take is completely legit but tbh i also think we cannot forget the fact that guts was practically obsessed with griffith’s beauty … not that his reaction to seeing griffith’s ruined face is all about his looks, but rather like, i think that works into what you said about guts seeing griffith as a regular human for the first time, since his beauty is one of the major things that makes people see him as otherworldly and godlike lol
but i just love the fact that it’s his face. it’s his beautiful, ruined face that does it for guts

lmao ngl after answering that question i immediately regretted not finishing my post with “actually scratch all that, guts nearly has a breakdown entirely because griffith’s hair is short now”

but for real yeah that actually is a legit aspect probably, because his looks are a big part of what makes him seem godlike and untouchable, and guts really did pay particular attention to yk his “dazzling” “beautiful” looks

Do you think that now that casca has regained her memories something tragic is finally going to happen again and shake the (frankly stagnant) current storyline? Honestly *dennis reynolds voice* somebody has to die. Preferably somebody from guts’ new party by guts’ own hand

The line between think and desperately, desperately hope is thin lol, but yes. Also completely agree that the best outcome would be Guts killing one or more of his friends himself in beast of darkness mode.

The theory I’ve been pushing and will continue to push until Miura proves me wrong is that Casca’s ptsd despair is going to open the behelit, she’ll choose to become an apostle, and consequently Guts will succumb to the armour in his grief and outrage. Also symbolically it’s nice because something has to cause Guts to lose himself to the armour, we know this because of fifty pieces of foreshadowing, and Casca becoming a monster would work great for that since she basically symbolizes his tie to his humanity right now.

But anyway, whatever ends up happening, I hope it really shakes things up, raises the stakes, and causes serious permanent consequences, because we need a dose of darkness soon imho, and Guts’ fix Casca quest ending in tragedy would just… work so perfectly for me. I want it so bad lol.

a-girl-named-chester
replied to your post “Okay but how come guts reacts this way when seeing griff tortured face…”

Unsolicited opinion here lol, but I think another reason Griffith might be pretty again in his domestic nightmare sequence has to do with his internal self-image. Like, I have long hair now, but always envision myself with my old short hair.
He might have been envisioning himself the way he used to look, even if he was still disabled in the dream. (Also this is stupid, but until now idk if it really registered in my mind that he was disabled in the dream whoops)

Oh yeah this is totally a legit reading of the scene too, and it makes sense and is what I typically assume to be the case. Like it does seem like a stretch to assume Griffith wouldn’t even have any scars (tho the way the scene’s illustrated his face does have kind of a… like an ambiguous look to it the way it’s shadowed and shaded throughout?

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like I’ve always vaguely wondered if we’re supposed to read some scarring into the way Miura shades his face in this scene. But idk. I also think it’s thematically appropriate for Griffith to picture himself without scars here regardless of whether that would actually be the case in reality, yk, his beauty being a thing, the sort of heteronormative picturesque nightmare here, etc. So really I could go either way.)

I know the movies went full missing skin + exposed face muscles, but I complain about the patches of missing skin thing being stupid too much to just accept that lol. (Also if that’s the case why the hell wouldn’t you bandage his face too? what were you thinking, ova people?)

But idk whatever the case is it doesn’t really change my feeling that Guts’ reaction to seeing his face is a little too intense to be taken fully at face value.

Okay but how come guts reacts this way when seeing griff tortured face in the torture room ? Coz from what we are seeing from griffs face through the mask,he still has two eyes one nose etc so like there are the scars we can see when judeau take off the mask,but its not much comparing to his body?like i dont understand gutts reaction,griff face doesnt seem to be disfigured.

tbh yeah it does seem like such an over the top reaction, especially since in griffith’s nightmare of the future he’s pretty again so whatever happened to his face is probably not permanently disfiguring to a huge extent (yeah it was a dream sequence but it was deliberately meant to be a realistic one). but imo there’s also a legit answer.

Guts’ kind of extreme, omg this can’t be griffith, omfg, reaction is less “oh no he’s ugly now” and more “wow i’m being confronted by the extremely painful, horrific, and undeniable fact that griffith is actually not a god, he’s human and vulnerable and broken and it’s my fault.”

it’s putting an image to Casca’s words:

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Guts being hit over the head with the fact that this image:

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is bullshit.

And I love that it happens when Guts takes off the mask, not before when he’s checking out his cut tendons and cut out tongue, because the mask is such a strong consistent symbol for the image Griffith hides behind.

tbh it doesn’t really matter what Griffith’s face looks like, it’s the fact that Guts takes off the mask and sees the real, human Griffith, and it hits him how false his idea of him, the idea he based his decision to leave around, was.

And it’s a nice set up for this moment later:

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Guts is symbolically accepting the real Griffith here, but Griffith isn’t able to drop the image and be vulnerable yet. Another tragic missed connection.

(And yeah like @chaoticgaygriffith​ has said, from a character perspective Guts is still dancing around reality here, and it’s not til another few chapters that he really fully acknowledges how immensely he fucked up (”why do I always see these things… after they’re done and gone?”) but yk. it’s a baby steps attempt lol. the tragedy is that they both suck at this.)

Also an additional detail because I love it

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Guts’ eventual acceptance of Griffith’s humanity mirrors Casca’s realization that her feelings for Griffith weren’t just distant awe and respect, but actually romantic, I’m just saying.

is2g visiting pro-griffith/griffguts blogs esp urs with ur meta and thoughts after ur average berserk fanspaces like reddit or skullknight is like a balm after having to endure the same idiotic donovan/eclipse/potato casca jokes, virulent griffith hatred, g*tsca love and the usual fuckery. i’m always amazed at the difference between the 2 sides of the fandom, it’s like we’re reading a different series except the other side got the dumbed down str8 version lol. anyways keep up the good work x

tyvm, I appreciate the message! honestly Berserk fans can get so vile with like, some of the shit you mention like rape jokes. not surprising considering the canon, but unfortunate, and I’m glad I can help provide an alternative.

also I’m tacking this on bc it’s a similar topic and I’m trying not to spam everyone’s dash lol:

xiyyh replied to your post  “madchen
replied to your post  “Do you have any thoughts about…”

all of this …. and it’s baffling to me how
many workarounds ppl come up with to argue the opposite                
 

god same, it’s to the point where people might as well have their fingers in their ears going ‘la la la.’

like
the sheer number of berserk fans who don’t acknowledge/actively deny
that, say, Griffith valued Guts more than his dream, or Guts left the
Hawks to become Griffith’s friend and not to like, escape his sinister thrall lol, is mind
boggling. these aren’t interpretations, these are cold hard facts
directly stated many times.

like eg because I read the tv tropes
page before re-reading the manga for the first time in years I went in
assuming most of what I love about it (ie Griffith and Guts’
overwhelming feelings for each other) was subtext and just one potential
interpretation of many, rather than like, the hammered home point of
the story lol.

It really does feel like there are two completely different stories out there. And some of it is probably bc of scanlations, and anime vs manga fans, etc, but still. the fundamentals of the story remain the same, but you wouldn’t know it looking at fandom.

About the apostle rebound thing. How about in the modern au post-break up Griffith being petty af spams his social media with selfies of himself and the apostle like “me and my new manz lol they all bigger and stronger than my irrelevant ex lol not like i give af butIbethesojealousrightnow hahaha” but when he sees Guts and Serpico right next to him and by next to him I mean like 20 ft away from him and he just has a meltdown.

lol i could see it

also ngl i love the concept of griffith rebounding with the modern au equivalents of 5 apostles while guts’ rebound is serpico

serpico would have the sense to peace out when he realizes tho

I hope you don’t mind me dropping by and asking a question, but I love your analysis on Berserk (unless you’ve already discussed this then ignore me lol). I was just curious on your insight on Griffith trying to choke Guts after they find him in his tortured state; like what was going on in his head. Thanks for reading this, and have an awesome day! :)

I love getting questions! And I haven’t really discussed this as far as I remember.

But I think that moment makes a lot of sense tbh.

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Griffith’s feelings towards Guts in his torture chamber monologue are incredibly intense, but not exactly positive. He’s all-consumingly in love with him, but he doesn’t want to be. Being in love with him is what lost him his dream and got him tortured for a year, which is a hell of an experience to resent someone for.

And the way his immediate response to Guts suddenly showing up is to try to strangle him seems like a very solid prelude to the sacrifice imo. Being in love is not fun for Griffith, it ruined his entire life, made him incredibly vulnerable, and made him emotionally dependant on a man who may very well leave him again and whose feelings Griffith has no reason to believe match his own.

If killing Guts can take the edge off those feelings and maybe return him back to factory settings when his dream was the most important thing and life made sense, in the irrational frame of mind he’s in after a year of torture, that would definitely seem like a good plan.

Add a side of plain old lashing out because he’s blaming Guts for the fact that he’s in that torture chamber, and I think it works very well that Griffith’s first act here is attempted strangulation.

What’s really incredible to me is that all it takes is Guts starting to cry and Griffith just welcomes him back, life destroying feelings and all. Like being in love is one thing, accepting that love and deciding to try to roll with it right after those feelings made him want to kill Guts is… wild.

This

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to this

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in a page.

So there’s also something to be said for extreme emotional instability after a year of torture, and a lifetime of repressing his feelings. He has no practice dealing with his feelings constructively, so when he can’t repress them he does some extreme, stupid things (like the duel, like the night with Charlotte, like self-harm, like reaching up to strangle Guts.)

OH AND ALSO it’s worth noting that Griffith is very aware that his hands don’t work anymore. He has no physical ability to kill Guts, and while in a moment of irrational overwhelming feeling he might try, I wouldn’t count this as a genuine murder attempt because somewhere in the back of his mind he knows he can’t actually strangle him. Like if, say, he had physical strength and access to a knife, I don’t think this moment would translate into suddenly slitting his throat without warning. Maybe more like holding the knife to his throat threateningly before dropping it and collapsing into his arms lol.

So tl;dr imo in this moment he’s spent a year hating Guts because he loves him and that ruined his life, so he’s lashing out and potentially trying to/wishing to cut those feelings off at the source the same way he does soon after during the Eclipse. But he just loves Guts so much he ends up holding his hand instead.

God I love this ship.

Anyway ty for sending this and your kind words, I hope you also have an awesome day!

cut for people who don’t want to see discussion of monster sex lol

@chaoticgaygriffith​ said:

#oh man come to think of it this is WHY his apostles didn’t get to have an orgy with him yet#this is so unfair to me specifically#i love griffith’s ‘sexualized untouchability’ ngl but then there’s something so alluring about#the idea of ngriff having sensual bonding sessions with his monsters yknow what i mean

i feel like there’s still room for this though! like this is one of those concepts i keep coming back to and i always envision it as neogriffith using sex as a way to keep the apostles in line and not preying on humanity, yk like, one taste of yr god and you realize that humans just aren’t worth risking getting kicked out of falconia for

except it’s actually completely unnecessary and more low-key a convoluted ott expression of his self-destructive streak while telling himself it’s just another rung on the ladder to his utopia dream, because griffith is a dramatic disaster in all incarnations

or you want it less fucked up and weirdly angsty then maybe it actually is just part of how he keeps them tame (a la Ganeshka’s “if he touches me I’ll sacrifice all -”) and he’s lowkey into it. or he lets his loyal generals gang bang him as a reward bc they’re apostles and apostles respond better to base lust than bags of gold, and in this scenario he’s getting fucked from a position of power as a show of generosity and knows he can’t be truly harmed bc fate, so it’s still a contrast to sex when he was human

i’ve said this before but still like, literally both g/c sex scenes began with the dude saying “hey here’s a great way to stop thinking about painful, painful reality” right after being devastated by their belief that they destroyed their relationship with the other dude, like they both seek out sexual connections in the face of losing their relationship with each other!

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Like I don’t think anyone would deny that this is clearly what Griffith is doing.

But Guts does it too:

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“The dead or broken” refers back to Casca’s “the almost broken dream of someone who might not even be alive” incidentally, so you don’t even need to make your own connections here, they’re delivered in a neat little bow. It’s about Griffith being in a dungeon right now because of Guts.

There’s a big empty space very clearly defined where Guts and Griffith should’ve fucked each other, and because they didn’t the Eclipse happened.

That’s the thesis statement of Berserk as far as I’m concerned.

madchen
replied to your post “Do you have any thoughts about griffith’s relationship with sex? Tbh…”

this is a given but all this really drives home that him and guts could’ve had it all including the first actual healthy and mutual romantic + sexual experience either of them would have

ikkkkkkkkkkkkkr

like i s2g griffguts is the keystone to berserk, it’s the missing piece, everything is built around it and everything falls apart literally because it’s a missed connection, i’ll argue that forever. and it always fits like no matter which angle you’re looking at the characters from

chaoticgaygriffith:

chaoticgaygriffith:

chaoticgaygriffith:

look at guts trying his damnest to be casual with griffith and make him feel even a little bit better about his situation (and also to distract himself from his guilt)

i’m honestly willing to think this wasn’t just a stupid, slightly insensitive naive moment from him but, in fact, an actual pathetic attempt at re-establishing their intimacy which he fucked up by leaving

he doesn’t look hurt when griffith kinda sorta refuses (i.e. changes the subject) but he’s still in the trying to act casual/make him feel better/distract himself mode

# i feel like griffith asking for his armour instead of taking off the mask kinda marks a switch for guts from the attempt at intimacy # and beginnings of real acceptance of griffith’s like… vulnerable humanity and the fact that he isn’t a god # to kinda following griffith’s lead and piling on more denial lol # like guts is a dumbass but he almost got it right here

ia i just think the elephant in the room is too big for guts to try to be this casual to start off? like it’s so transparent? and i get that what went down isn’t something he can just dive into without prepping either of them, especially considering the consequences it had for griffith and the guilt he feels over that, but like the way he handled it (following griffith’s lead like you said and all that) they didn’t get to talk about it* at all, which is imo so much worse

*of course it would have been one-sided bc griffith can’t talk but you know, better than nothing

tbh yeah true actually, at this point Guts falling to pieces and just screaming some real genuine words like the rambling guilt ridden monologue that’s been occasionally running through his head for a few days would probably be a step in the right direction more so than more dancing around everything

yk I think the number one reason Griffith had to lose his tongue, narratively, like you were talking about the other day, is because in the lake when Guts was running towards him if he could talk he would’ve finally broken and said everything. like I think to that point he would’ve kept repressing and not actually started the relevant conversation, but there is a breaking point when it would’ve come out then

but Guts, who could talk, never reached that breaking point

Do you have any thoughts about griffith’s relationship with sex? Tbh him sleeping with gennon for money and the way he seems to view sex as a way to control/own others makes me wonder if his mom was a prostitute and if that sort of traumatized him

This is a topic and a half lol. Ok, I have many many thoughts, and I’ll try laying some out.

To start, I’ve seen the heacanon that his mother was a prostitute a few times and tbh it makes a lot of sense to me and seems v plausible.

But also I don’t really get any indication that he views sex as a way to control/own others, at least not pre-Femto. I’d actually argue the exact opposite, that throughout the Golden Age sex for Griffith is indicative of his own powerlessness relative to others. Sex, to Griffith, is something that he can trade to people more powerful than him for something in return – or something people take from him.

(I mean you can argue that seduction and trading sex for power/security/etc is a way to control people, but everyone Griffith does this with has more societal power than him and Griffith never pursues sex with them for its own sake, so to me the dynamic comes across as less rakish rogue using sex to get what he wants and more csa victim with a warped view of sex as something to trade for the things he needs.)

under a cut for length and yk the whole topic

Gennon was straightforward prostitution, plus Griffith was a literal child whose guilt was taken advantage of by a pedophile. And as Griffith’s first sexual encounter we see, it certainly sets a tone and establishes the beginning of a pattern.

Later, as a villain, Gennon’s goal is literally just to rape Griffith, and Griffith is very aware of this, since he incorporates it into his battle plan. There’s also some indication that he’s been overtly getting his creep on for years on end, possibly explaining how Griffith knew Gennon would shoot himself in the foot just to get to him:

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So Gennon is both a sexual threat and someone with power who gives Griffith something in exchange for sex.

Charlotte is a princess he has to seduce to realize his dream.

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And when he does have sex with her I’d argue that it’s basically an attempt to escape from his feelings (rejection, need, self-loathing, being in love with Guts) through refocusing on his dream (which is consistently his alternative to and escape from Guts), essentially irrationally trying to prematurely seal the deal on the “transaction.”

It’s the sex version of this:

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And it also negates every scrap of power he clawed his way up to and lands him in a dungeon.

Also disclaimer on why I treat that scene as consensual when I’m analyzing it here, Miura is a misogynist dumbass, narrative fails to follow through entirely on Charlotte’s “no,” yadda yadda yadda.

Next you have the torturer and his incredibly creepy suggestiveness, which makes Griffith’s sexual victimization here technically subtext, but I mean, “we were like husband and wife,” the Gennon-like fixation on Griffith’s beauty, the tongue thing, the uh speculum he was holding in his introduction… it’s not subtle subtext.

Then when Griffith makes a move on Casca in the wagon he’s offering himself to her because he’s entirely out of options and kind of desperately grasping at something, now sunk from trading sex for a kingdom to trading sex for a caretaker, painfully highlighting his complete and total lack of power at this point in his life, and the future he envisions should she take him up on that offer makes him suicidal.

So like, four out of four sexual encounters we’re aware of pre-Eclipse focus on his vulnerability and powerlessness, then he turns into an evil demon and expresses his newfound power and invulnerability(/frozen heart) thru rape. So yk, there’s a thread there to pick up theoretically.

I mean I honestly have a really difficult time ascribing any meaning
to the Eclipse rape beyond assuming Miura wanted a cheap + shocking way
to piss Guts off, write out Casca, and presumably get himself off
judging by how he drew it, but yk… take the rest of the Golden Age and
the general concept of Griffith’s inner darkness raping Casca, the last person he felt that sexualized powerlessness to, while
ignoring the depiction of the actual scene, and you can read some amount of depth/cycle of abuse stuff into it. That was probably at least part of the point, if I’m being generous to Miura and his writing.

(Really given the amount of content in Berserk that
revolves around sexual violence you can read a million things into the
Eclipse rape. But yk if Miura wanted me to do that, he shouldn’t’ve
treated it like a sudden detour into actual porn. Ok mini rant over.)

(Oh I should probably add that obviously Casca was in no way complicit in Griffith feeling vulnerable to her there lol and I’m not suggesting she bears any responsibility at all. Griffith in the wagon and his subsequent dream was basically him projecting a bunch of issues on her. I feel like that goes without saying but I want to cover my bases.)

Then you get NeoGriffith with his magically heightened literally untouchable, beyond the reach of man vs an army of monsters is basically in love with him stuff.

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There is approximately 0 chance the placement of that “hunger and thirst” panel is accidental js.

But now Griffith has all the power. His beauty and magical sex appeal can be used as a tool without Griffith ever having to make himself vulnerable.

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(Also speaking of using sex to control others… like I don’t think it fits human Griffith based on what we see in canon, but imo there’s plenty of room to explore that with NGriff.)

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This isn’t a real threat, Griffith can just go “lol” and completely destroy him without breaking a sweat. Now Griffith has switched from he who is taken from to he who takes.

Like, the stakes of the Battle of Doldrey, for instance, was the threat of Griffith being captured as a sex slave. Some of the tension came from Casca’s suggestion that Griffith volunteering for the battle may not have been a rational decision, because his rapist is the commander of that army. We don’t learn Griffith’s full plan until partway through, there are cliffhanger moments during the battle chapters where Our Heroes look like they might lose, and the sequence is tense and nervewracking as a result.

The war against Ganeshka has absolutely no tension at all. There isn’t even a moment where the outcome is not absolutely certain. And that’s a strong way of showing that NeoGriffith may face the same threats he did as human Griffith, but he’s no longer vulnerable to them.

Uh I guess my point is basically that NeoGriffith’s kind of sexualized untouchability feels like a narrative response to human Griffith’s particularly sexualized vulnerability. Enemies and monsters still go on and on about how hot he is, but they can’t act on that now.

But there’s still Charlotte. Like, despite all this godly distance and inability to be harmed and pointed contrast to human Griffith experiencing sex solely as a bargaining chip or a weapon, he’s still gotta marry her to make his dream official.

I feel like it’s unlikely that Miura intends me to read their relationship like this, so it’s not gonna be addressed, but ngl it’s something I find theoretically interesting. Like I see a lot of people assume that NeoGriffith is going to like, murder Charlotte after they get married, and tbqh I think that’s generally stupid, but if there’s one angle you can look at the story from and conclude “yeah NGriff may just off Charlotte with extreme prejudice as soon as possible” it’s this imo. Not to prove how pointlessly maliciously evil he is lol, but because she still has a form of sexualized power over him.

But I think it’s more likely that NGriff doesn’t give a fuck anymore, or if he does he won’t admit it to himself, because he carved out most of his emotions and it’s gonna take more than that to get him to admit it didn’t completely work.

Also speaking of Charlotte there’s the whole like, heteronormativity and repression aspect while we’re talking Griffith and his relationship to sex. The related fact that he deliberately performs a certain image/makes himself a symbol. And I barely even mentioned Guts. Agh actually there is a ton more to say about Griffith + sex, but I don’t want this to be even longer lol.

So ok, those are my thoughts on Griffith + sex + power specifically.

I’ll just link you other stuff I’ve written which kind of covers a wider variety of topics re: Griffith and sex, if you’re interested.

heteronormativity:
https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/163698531431/well-this-originally-started-out-as-a-jokey-take

older post comparing his encounters w/ gennon and charlotte:
https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/160972170091/griffith-guilt-and-sex

there’s some stuff about how sexual trauma factors into his relationship with Guts here:
https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/165199335291/my-big-gay-berserk-analysis-4

falconia as an answer to all the csa trauma we see in the golden age + me complaining more about the eclipse rape lol:
https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/173042225356/this-is-about-falconia-bodies-and-lives-being

more on griffith + sex + powerlessness:
https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/172251791746/under-a-cut-because-a-this-is-largely-about-the

and a more fun headcanony post:
https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/173271902321/please-extrapolate-on-griffith-being-a-sub-and-why

(my headcanons tag has quite a few sex related posts and conversations but well they’re headcanons more than meta)

is it just me or the way miura draws covers and other illustrations nowadays is different and much better than the current art style he uses for the manga? like it actually resembles the manga’s old art style. maybe it’s just the coloring, but look at this: imgur(.)com/a/veYLcNT and then at this: imgur(.)com/a/hhygFyG. the 1st griffith is so much prettier and he looks like his old self too with those sharp/elf-esque features

I’ve never really paid attention to the difference between the manga art and color pages/covers, other than enjoying the oil pastel look, but yeah w/ those examples I do see a difference. Maybe it’s the medium, or just spending more time and effort on the covers. Idk art is a mystery to me lol.

I love how Griffith spends so much time trying to be king when he fits every description of a disney princess. Seriously he’s always wanting more, if you count his new apostle crew he’s got a bunch of animal sidekicks, his voice actor sings a lot in the bloopers, some old woman gave him some necklace with obscure value etc. Hell, all the named hawks make up seven and his hair is literally a snowy white. Squeeze him into one of Charlotte’s dresses and he’ll pop up in the disney princess line up.

hey miura has cited disney as an influence

technically while talking about puck but still

Hi! What about apostles. If their inner world much affecting their “human” appearance and apostle form does this mean that such apostles as Grunbeld, Irwine and mostly Locus are too good to have more animalistic attributes? Locus only have inhuman eyes… He’s like Neogriffith.

Yeah I don’t think there’s any actual canon on apostles and how monstrous they look or don’t look, but it’s something I’ve wondered about. This is kind of what I theorize, that if they’ve succumbed more to their “monstrousness” they probably always look a little off, but if they’re one of the more chill, “human” seeming apostles their appearance could reflect that.

Like… since apostles transform from human to monster, and they have a scale of in between forms (like Rosine looking more human with Jill, looking more buggy by default, and going full moth fighter jet while fighting Guts), I do wonder if the extent of their transformation relies on their emotions and how much they allow their negative emotions (like bloodlust) to run rampant. Like w/ Guts succumbing to the armour, same kinda deal. And maybe it’s harder for them to look fully human, like they have to have a greater emotional control/tie to their humanity.

out of curiosity, why do you have that header image?

image

Kind of a pretentious meta-y reason lol, this is one of my fave post golden age chapters because I feel like Sonia’s thoughts on loneliness are extremely relevant to NeoGriffith and whatever residual feelings for Guts he has, based on how Miura frames him here, and like, the themes of Berserk in general.

Yk, Sonia is lonely because she’s different from everyone else, she briefly bonds with her Guts’ narrative counterpart and misses her, we get a conversation with Irvine about how relationships humanize and isolation dehumanizes, we get our usual light = companionship, darkness = isolation imagery, and then Sonia dreams of her and Schierke in the moonlight. Followed by the page of NeoGriffith surrounded by darkness, alone under that moon.

So “A dream of a kite and an owl playing in a moonlit forest” is roundaboutly griffguts related as far as I’m concerned bc Sonia and Schierke seem like a v strong parallel to me, and I like being needlessly subtle w/ my references sometimes lol.

Do you think that guts keeps casca around (post-eclipse) just because “she’s the wound griffith left” and he wants “to keep feeling the pain” griffith caused him, as the beast of darkness said, or is it also bc he cares about her?

I’m not gonna argue that Guts doesn’t care about her at all lol, but I do think the fact that she’s a reminder of the pain Griffith caused is a very important aspect, and is likely to come up again since Miura mentioned it as the reason he kept her alive (ie to keep Guts from moving on) in a 2017 interview.

I don’t think that’s the only reason Guts is sticking with Casca now, I think there are like, a bunch of other reasons as well. The fact that she’s a reminder of his past with the Hawks and he wants to bring her mind back to recover a piece of that idyllic past. The fact that he wants to try to move on from Griffith after Griffith pronounced himself free of him tbqh, and focusing on a new objective is a good way to attempt that. (And incidentally I think it’s purposeful that keeping her around as a reminder of the Eclipse and trying to move on thru taking her to Elfhelm are contradictory, but that doesn’t mean Guts can’t be motivated by both reasons.)

And also the fact that he does genuinely care about her. Like even if I don’t think he’s actually in love with her, and I don’t, Guts cares about his friends and comrades. He saved her even back when he hated her, when she fell off that cliff. His revenge campaign was damaging to himself in part because like… by abandoning Casca he kind of betrayed himself, because at his core he wants to help the people he cares about, he wants to be there for them. Abandoning her in a cave for 3 years is like, the exact opposite of our (chronologically) first image of him, when he was three and held his mother’s hand as she died.

So yk, another aspect is that at his best, Guts stands up and does the right thing for the people he considers friends and family, and at his worst, he fucks off and leaves them to fend for themselves. And Guts is trying to be more his best and less his worst.

Oh and ofc relatedly he’s trying to atone for leaving Griffith in the snow. He draws that parallel a lot when he decides to focus on Casca lol.

I’ll also link this post bc it basically says much the same thing but with pictoral evidence lol

imaginaryapart
replied to your post “imaginaryapart
replied to your post “I don’t know if you went into…”

Thanks for responding! I appreciate it. Love this stuff. And yeah I agree that Griffith definitely cares for Casca, and that’s part of what makes this scene so tragic. Manipulating Casca’s sympathy in order to make her stay, in order to make Guts stay, doesn’t lessen the fact that Griffith cares for her. But Casca isn’t Guts, and that distinction seems to be highlighted here. Griffith seems to be responding to a) Guts possibly leaving again and b) the relationship with Casca that he no longer—
has, now that Casca
and Guts have grown closer. He’s probably trying to be that person Casca
knew him as, as you pointed out, and doing it from the point in his
life furthest from that past glory. The tragedy is layered here, and I
personally enjoy the idea of Griffith using someone he genuinely cares
for (Casca) in order to reach for Guts, who always seems out of reach. I
also agree that it foreshadows the eclipse and demonstrates the
consistency of Griffith’s character when he makes the

sacrifice before the Godhand. Thanks for listening to me go on, hah.

thank you for responding too, this is a fun topic to talk about!

yeah I basically agree with everything you said here I think. Honestly the lead-up to the Eclipse was so good at making everything as depressing and painful as possible for everyone involved, and everything you’ve described is a huge part of it.

“Casca isn’t Guts, and that distinction seems to be highlighted here“

Yeah v true, and I think it also effectively parallels Griffith and Casca’s feelings for Guts, the way Casca and Guts’ feelings for Griffith have been paralleled at times (eg during the cave conversation where they both see Griffith as out of reach, and potentially even believing that he desires the other, considering Guts tries to set them up afterwards. Or during the rescue mission where Guts thinks that he has to accept Casca’s lingering feelings for Griffith because he’s not over him/hasn’t unbound himself either). Like Griffith isn’t Casca’s first choice either now, she feels obligated to stay with him, and in the dream sequence Guts’ absence seems to diminish them both.

And ia that the like… tension between genuinely caring for someone but using them (and later, sacrificing them) despite that is great, like the sacrifice wouldn’t be anywhere near as interesting if Griffith didn’t actually gaf about the Hawks. And we see that attitude in his general existence as a mercenary leader too – like when he says to Guts “I will decide the place where you die,” or positions the Hawks with their backs to the river during the Doldrey battle so they have no choice but to give it their all bc they can’t retreat. Like his life is also on the line, so it’s not exactly cruel or unfair, but it is ruthless and it’s great fuel for the guilt issues he denies.

But I’m hugely into the contrast between like, Griffith’s feelings and his almost desperate need to deny them/bury them lol.

I should mention: even
though our interpretations differ in some ways, I don’t mean to argue!
I’m interested in your take and enjoy the other metas you’ve posted. I
agree that Casca really isn’t done justice in Berserk at all, and I
honestly hate that so much story has been devoted to “saving” her
post-eclipse instead of focusing on what made her badass and
sympathetic. That said, I can see why she’s used the way she is plotwise
with respect to Guts and Griffith; it’s part of the tragedy for me.

(I just wish Casca’s suffering didn’t
center so often on the fact that she’s a woman. Leaves a bad taste in my
mouth, like womanhood is the only source of suffering for someone like
her.)

Same same. Like I have strong opinions and I definitely don’t shy away from sharing them lol but I’m happy to have people disagree with me and get the opportunity to discuss them and get new ideas to consider etc, it’s all part of the fun of being in fandom as long as everyone’s fairly chill. I’m interested in your takes too, whether you agree or disagree 🙂

And yeah cosigned wrt Casca. It’s such a shame to me because I feel like she had so much potential and some great scenes as an awesome character, but she gets hamstrung by the writing so much, her role stuck between Guts and Griffith, and how every aspect of her character revolves around being a woman, cumulating in the Eclipse and the destruction of her character, and like… damn, yk? It’s a bit hard to take lol.

imaginaryapart
replied to your post “I don’t know if you went into this before but if so let me know. When…”

Nice analysis. I agree with you for the most part, and have something to add that seems complementary to what you’ve already mentioned: Griffith is showing Casca exactly how pathetic he is in order to manipulate her into staying, and thereby get Guts to stay as well. But Casca spoils this plan when she reminds Guts that if he is Griffith’s friend and equal, then he must leave. This is the moment that Griffith realizes that he is responsible for Gut’s departure that day in the snow. It’s tragic.
(Cont.) Low as he was,
Griffith seems to still be trying to manipulate the situation to get
what he wants (Guts to stay), even going so far as to weaponize his
broken body. But this, like you said, is total desperation, and when it
doesn’t work Griffith has nothing else to try. It really cements the
idea that Casca was, is, and always will be just a means to an end for
Griffith, which is heartbreaking for Casca but one of my favorite parts
of the series.

Thank you!

yeah i definitely agree that Casca is a means to an end to Griffith here – he certainly isn’t asking her to stay because he wants her in his life in particular, and ia that he’s most likely hoping Guts will stay too if Casca stays, since he now has an idea that they’re together. I don’t think that’s all she is to him – he genuinely cares for her, or else he wouldn’t be able to sacrifice her lol, and wouldn’t try opening up to her in the river after Gennon, wouldn’t try to save her when Wyald grabs her despite being unable to do a thing, etc. But their feelings for each other definitely aren’t equal and it does make me feel for Casca.

(and on a related subject I have a lot of feelings about how Casca is constantly used by both Griffith and Guts as an emotional and physical like, bridge between them, from Casca warming Guts all the way back in the beginning, to Guts assaulting her to “get closer and closer to Griffith,” to just about everything in between. Her role in the story is very depressing to me bc I really love her and she has some amazing moments and scenes, but overall Berserk absolutely doesn’t do her justice.)

Tho idk I wouldn’t really consider Griffith to be deliberately manipulating Casca here or “weaponizing” his body. His sexualized offer is pretty straightforward, and I don’t think he intended to come across as pathetic as he does – Casca comforting him with a hand on his shoulder is, imo, the opposite of what he wanted. He wanted to be the comforter, but he can’t fill that role anymore.

But this is a v ambiguous scene so it’s not like there’s not plenty of room for different interpretations.

You’ve probably answered this before, but what’s your take on the griffith and casca wagon scene? Was he trying to rape her?

I did actually answer this pretty recently so I’ll link you to that post.

But in brief, no – he stopped when Casca said stop, which kind of nips the idea that it was a rape attempt in the bud. It was an offer, the only way he could really make it without being able to speak, and it’s mainly meant to show how weak, helpless, and desperate he is at this point – particularly as it comes after Wyald helpfully explained how he’ll be dependant for the rest of his life.

And imo it’s meant to be a huge contrast to the Eclipse rape emphasizing Griffith’s lack of power – he’s not offering sex because he wants it, he’s offering because it’s the one thing he can give Casca in exchange for her continued loyalty/care, which fits the transactional pattern of Griffith’s other textual sexual encounters (Gennon for money, Charlotte for her kingdom), and leads directly to his nightmare where he envisions that potential future and immediately tries to kill himself.

seisans
replied to your post “seisans
replied to your post “How do you think charlotte would react…”

yeah i feel like i can’t imagine him detailing it completely just because like. 1. he’s trying to maintain this perfect image but also 2. he seems to want to put this behind him and pretend like it doesn’t affect him … as part of pretending like guts is irrelevant to him now yk? but yea

Yeah I imagine the explanation is either a very large lie by omission (like, Rickert resents me because I led the Hawks into an unwinnable battle) or a little closer to the truth but without the gritty details (God took their lives to grant me a new beginning and the power to save the world, or smthn)

@chaoticgaygriffith said:
you dare diss the
films ….. when the anime series exist ……. both the old one and the new
one tbh 1997 has its moments but it mostly failed us when it comes to
character designs
the music and the scenery + some colour choices, goddd for all its flaws …. it’s an Experience


@phydia63​ said: same! i love the way the noses are drawn.

Yeah I love a lot about the old anime, including the style (like everything you said, + the 90s animation in general tbh, esp with the stills) but the ova character designs are my fave next to the late golden age manga style

hotaru-dream
replied to your post “sobadpink
replied to your post “sobadpink
replied to your post …”

In the official guidebook it is said that their estimed age are the same
(24 years old when published, but it’s quite “recent” so not sure about when they met)

YES!

that’s the official berserk guidebook that came out in like 2017? I’m assuming they’re not including elfhelm time dilation shennanigans or subtracting the 2-3 years Griffith spent as Femto on the astral plan or w/e in that, so it probably means they were both 15ish (since Guts was 15) when they met