mostly berserk meta. i'm into berserk mainly for griffguts and i'm a huge fan of griffith.
Tag: b
its like.. you dont have to approve of it, if someone’s grossed out or upset by it that’s their business but its also the foundation for the entire plot so idg why ppl seem 2 universally express disapproval by pretending its literally not there (&/or all of guts’s interactions w/ griffith are solely due to Manipulation by Eeeeeevil Schemer Griffith)… if it upsets u to that degree u can read s/t else that will be less upsetting?
yeah, exactly. when it comes to people actively denying that griffith and guts’ relationship is the basic premise of berserk and getting mad at people who enjoy that fact, it just gets weird to me. I fully understand not enjoying Guts and Griffith’s thing, or enjoying it until the Eclipse happens, or not caring for any of many valid reasons (tho why you’d continue reading in that case I understand less, but w/e that’s just bc I’ll quit anything at the drop of a hat lol, and there’s other good stuff in Berserk so each to their own), but surely you can see that Guts and Griffith’s complicated friends to enemies with plentiful gay subtext dynamic is the axis on which the plot turns and therefore understand that a lot of Berserk fans are gonna be into it.
And yet.
dude scoops up the person he secretly loves and tells them to shut the fuck up
~cinematic parallels~
and i mean like, i don’t mean ship guts/griff in the sense of wanting them to live happily ever after lol, i just mean being very invested in their homoerotic relationship, first as friends then as enemies.
like there are other good characters, i’m a big farnese fan, i like berserk’s hot take on religion and some of what it has to say about morality eg, and big sword goes swoosh is rly fun
but guts and griff’s relationship is the emotional hook from beginning to present. so if you’re not invested in that i’m just like ??? what else is there that makes this story worth reading?
i honestly can’t comprehend the concept of sitting down to read berserk and not coming out of it shipping guts/griffith, at least in the sense of being heavily invested in their intense, eroticized relationship
i mean yeah ok it takes all kinds, there are people out there who watched xena and thought her and gabrielle had a sisterly bond, apparently there are people who watched hannibal and thought hannibal being head over heels in love with will was an elaborate fakeout bc they think he’s incapable of emotions or smthn, but like, man, idk
idk how that works. idk how you read a story that’s like:
– these two dudes hate each other. the reason is because one sacrificed the other in a ceremony where to escape unbearable emotional pain you have to sacrifice a person you love so much it’s like they’re a part of you, and your illustrative example for this concept is a husband and wife. – let’s introduce their relationship with the textual suggestion that one is sexually attracted to the other. and just to make it even the other can mention how pretty and beautiful he is multiple times. – oh now here’s 70 chapters to demonstrate the fact that these dudes care more about each other than anything else in the world. we’ll state that outright too. – 90% of the purpose of this arc is to show how meaningful and deep and intense and life-altering this relationship is. – now one guy is supposed to be emotionless but oops turns out when he looks at the dude he loved more than anything his heart starts fluttering. – now this other guy is supposed to be consumed by hate but oops the dude he hates looks just like the dude he loved more than anything again and his resolve crumbles. – now they’ll have totally separate narratives for a while but just look at this foundation of solid bedrock their relationship is built on, informing every pointed moment of emotional ambiguity, every reminder of the past, and every hint of potential foreshadowing.
and come away from it thinking ‘man i can’t wait til guts cuts off griffith’s head and rides off into the sunset with casca as his narrative reward’
just based on guts’ first look at them, who would you guess is the love interest?
casca:
griffith:
Yes yes yes. This Exactly. I’ma little slightly not well I am excited right now so this might not make sense. But. They do this visual chemistry thing, the angles Griffith gets, the way his eyes are drawn, how they stand together, the light breeze running through their hair. How they fit together in the frame, bodies turned in. And you do this for 10 volumes almost with these characters and then suddenly do the same with Guts and Casca for one damn chapter and now we’re supposed to have that superimpose 50 chapters of the same thing with a different set of characters. Like chemistry. Where was this.
It’s like buying a bag of m & ms and finding Cheetos inside Like I don’t hate the Cheetos. But that’s not what I signed up or paid emotional investment for .
This makes perfect sense and ia, when it comes to visual language Griffith is pretty straightforwardly romanticized and eroticized from Guts’ perspective.
like look at Guts’ point of view shot right here
first thing he thinks of when he wakes up after sensing a naked woman in bed with him:
griffith looking vulnerable and in need of rescue with his hair splayed out
this which is even more eroticized than those first panels
actually don’t quote me on this bc i’d have to re-read to make a real judgement call here, but I think these kinds of shots (from Guts’ perspective specifically) actually peter out after the Promrose Hall speech?
which, if so, makes it even more likely to me that it’s purposeful bc that’s when his view of Griffith shifts from him being a guy he likes who likes him back to being a distant goal.
though Griffith remains beautiful, noble, larger than life, dazzling, pretty, etc just to throw a few words guts has used to describe him, in Guts’ mind:
and then all bets are off once guts starts thinking about neogriff.
(the waters get a little muddier once miura starts drawing griffith like a wet dream every time he’s in a panel but honestly this shot of guts thinking about him goes above and beyond to a ridiculous extent)
oh also i was gonna say that it blows that casca gets super diminished and girlier once she ends up slotted into the love interest role, like judeau even comments on it ffs.
griffith has probably had at least one fantasy thats just him sitting on the throne but also guts lap at the same time while he conducts his King bullshit… true bossy power bottom material
this is so real
just based on guts’ first look at them, who would you guess is the love interest?
god i always forget about the sword in mouth thing?? like miura is obviously pushing phallic imagery and traditional allegories/metaphors with manhood and swords, and its pretty directly foreshadowed that griff getting his sword broken –> figurative and probably literal castration; broken swords obviously symbol loss of power but its a p common art motif to symbolize impotency too lol
what im saying is that guts put griffs dick in his mouth and theres no way around it
/files away more evidence for my “griffith is a power bottom” analysis post/
cosigning all of this.
also negl i would read an entire analysis that concludes with “therefore griffith is a power bottom” lol. and, like, genuinely a freudian analysis of berserk could totally exist bc miura is obviously purposefully throwing at least some freudian symbolism in there (aforementioned 2nd duel being one of the more clear examples).
The first thing that springs to mind to say about it is that I literally, 100% being honest and not exaggerating, cannot conceive of a writer writing that into their story and intending the characters to be straight bffs lmao
Like it’s the scene where they properly meet for the first time, and it’s not even innuendo, it’s straight up “are you gay? do you want to fuck me? okay sure if you win you can” and Griffith pointedly denying none of it. If that’s how you choose to introduce your characters’ relationship I just don’t believe that all the subsequent homoeroticism is accidental.
Also a good thing about those exchanges? Prime the audience to read the first duel as a sex scene. Like I’m sorry but Guts saying “you can have whatever you want, my sword or my ass” and then surprising Griffith by um taking his sword into his mouth? Pretty dang suggestive.
(Also Griffith winning by seizing Guts’ arm in a hold and then dislocating it = he’s a power bottom. Sorry that’s just basic literary analysis.)
More seriously I think it’s interesting and simultaneously kind of heartwarming and tragic that the first thing Guts does is project his rape trauma on Griffith but then quickly comes to wholly trust, admire and love him. It’s another indication that living with the Hawks and Griff for 3 years has really helped heal him emotionally, and another relatively minor thing that adds a little more weight to the Eclipse, at least in theory (seems a bit thin to say it was purposeful on Miura’s part but it works).
enh it’s a fucked up offensive scene so I avoided panels that mention or show sexual assault bc it’s a joke post, but i mean unfortunately it is one of the most homoerotic scenes since the golden age so it’s pretty relevant.
i get if you have a problem with anything from that scene being mentioned light-heartedly at all but tbh i tend to get a little irreverent when it comes to miura’s misogyny (among other issues) bc lbr you can’t throw a stone in berserk without hitting someone treating casca like shit, and if i took it completely seriously i wouldn’t be able to enjoy or even get through the story. so I mean I don’t make rape jokes or post pics of sexual assault without cuts and warnings, but I can’t promise I won’t mention fucked up scenes in a light hearted jokey way.
eta: tho actually after casually scrolling past that post it is a pretty jarring change in tone lol, so fair enough. I should probably try to be more mindful of that kind of thing. i’m so used to rolling my eyes at the constant rape that i can forget that those scenes are pretty disturbing even out of context.
this is a beautiful post but i love how guts’ memory of neogriff remarks that “he looked so human…” but basically all of the body is obscured by birds. guts knows him anywhere by his hair and his ass
lmao right, and I’m p sure griffith is on the opposite end of like, a huge field too, but guts just instantly Knows.
honestly what a good page tho. notable heterosexual Guts, upon looking at NeoGriff’s divine ass surrounded by birds and flowing hair:
Anyway, on Griffith always facing away in Guts’ memories:
Guts left Griffith in the snow in an attempt to become Griffith’s equal. When he came back, by all standards of measurement these two dudes give a fuck about, Guts is by far his superior. Griffith was broken by Guts leaving, then broken by torture, and is dependent physically and emotionally on him.
It’s a very be careful what you wish for thing lol.
However, one side-effect of the Eclipse, not intended by Griffith but intended by the narrative, is it’s a reset button on their stupid power dynamic obsession – Guts has another shot at achieving his dream, ironic as that is.
Guts left, when he came back he discovered in as brutal a way as possible that he left for no reason. The fact that his leaving destroyed Griffith was proof that his attempt to become Griffith’s equal was based on misinformation. However, after the Eclipse, Griffith is a god and now Guts is back at square one.
This is basically directly stated when Guts thinks of Griffith’s friendship speech while declaring war on him.
So I think part of the reason he usually remembers Griffith with his back turned is basically because he’s in a cycle of pursuing him, first to stand beside him, and now to drag him down to him.
Which begs 2 questions imo:
1. Can Guts break free of this cycle? 2. Does Guts need to pursue Griffith at all to be his equal, or does the irony of the Golden Age (I left to be your equal but turns out I already was lol whoops) still hold true? ie, how emotionally compromised is NeoGriff?
I mentioned a while ago that the first time I feel we got a real visual* glimpse of Guts’ hound-esque inner darkness chronologically was during the rescue mission.
The way he cuts out the torturer’s tongue is very reminiscent of his tendency to torture apostles before killing them imo (which probably has its origins in the way he killed Donovan), and then he just rampages through the castle like a demonic one-man army, very black swordsman ish.
Look at this imagery like:
(i love Casca’s ‘holy shit dude’ expression)
Plus you got Charlotte saying he scares her, and the Wyald fight is when everyone starts comparing Guts to a monster and saying he’s inhuman.
So I was thinking – why? Why would we get this before the Eclipse, before he starts killing ghosts and infusing his sword with Essence of Darkness, before the brand + killing monsters make him literally superhuman? Why do we get our first look at monster slaying, revenge-obsessed, black swordsman Guts a day and only a day before the main event, the point of which is to make him revenge-obsessed, even takes place?
And I want to suggest that it’s because this is it – this is Guts’ revenge spree. It’s not one revenge spree that ends, followed immediately by another unrelated revenge spree. It’s the same rage. He killed the torturer like he kills apostles, then he fought an actual apostle to defend Griffith, then the Eclipse happened and he declared war.
It’s all intimately connected in Guts’ mind and emotions:
He started off on a vengeful rampage for Griffith in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt, and he continued on a vengeful rampage against Femto/NeoGriffith, also in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt.
We know this because as he’s running towards Griffith in the torture chamber Guts thinks about how it’s his fault that Griffith is there without actually coming to a proper conclusion (if that’s the case… then I –) – and he reaches that conclusion (was I the one who brought all this upon you?) right as he’s running towards Griffith at the site of the Eclipse. Guts’ guilt is strongly associated with his rage this way. Guilt followed by external target followed by lashing out.
Idk, there’s just such a through line to me from Casca telling him it’s his fault to the Eclipse. The most significant moments of Guts’ internal thoughts are given to him processing this information and finally concluding that he fucked up right before the Eclipse begins. The Eclipse didn’t then erase his feelings of guilt, it just let him continue to repress those feelings and gave him acceptable targets to lash out at instead of dealing with his feelings.
Now this is a bold statement, but I think that in a way, rampage part 1, kill half the soldiers of Midland, and rampage part 2, kill demons, are both about Guts avenging Griffith – the latter only in part ofc, because the rest of the Hawks need to be avenged too now.
Because the thing is, I think he still sees Griffith as a victim. After finally acknowledging that Griffith did sacrifice everyone, he still looks back at him wistfully. He thinks of Griffith while flashing back to the lost Hawks after the Eclipse. He tells Rickert that NeoGriffith isn’t the Griffith he knows (incidentally something Rickert repeats to NeoGriffith later, which NGriff acknowledges). He flashes back to Griffith in the snow a lot. To Guts, Griffith isn’t his friend who turned out to be a dick, Griffith is his friend who basically committed fantasy murder/suicide after being tortured for a year because Guts broke him by leaving.
His feelings towards Femto/NeoGriff are complicated and fucked up as all hell, but while his feelings for Griffith feed into his complicated feelings for Femto/NeoGriff, his hatred for F/NG doesn’t retroactively affect his feelings towards human Griffith. They’ve remained pretty solidly longing, guilt, love, regret. He’s not thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and feeling rage at what he would go on to do a year later, he’s thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and trying to find a way to atone for it. Griffith is still explicitly part of the “campfire from those days still [burning in his] chest.”
Idk basically I just wanted to say that a part of Guts’ fuel for his revenge rampage was feeling responsible for Griffith’s pain and not being able to save Griffith from it, both the first time against Midland and the second time against the Godhand, and I chose a very long drawn-out way to do that.
* I specify visual glimpse bc i think there’s a solid argument that it’s there when he kills Donovan, based on the way he taunts him and tortures him briefly first, but we don’t have any of the ragey demonic imagery associated with Guts’ darkness there – he just looks like a kid. So I feel like it works as a point of origin for a lot of Guts’ dark vengeful urges (Donovan is the first monster he killed), but he wasn’t anywhere close to losing himself to darkness then.
Honestly I don’t think there’s anything I have to add here which you haven’t already said. But I’ll just leave this here,
From Schierke’s trip into Guts Mindscape, where at the pit of the fire which drives Guts forward, There is a chant of Griffith’s name and a confused roil of affection and rage which comes with it. And though Friend and enemy overlap, they haven’t quite superimposed yet, they are still distinct entities.
And really you’ve said this before but I definitely agree that a part of his current motivation to fix things comes from his guilt of being unable to ‘fix’ what he had with Griffith. I’m not saying he wouldn’t have done it for Casca on her own too, but that Guttural fear, the panicked “Did I Do it AGAIN?!” that comes from a place of Guilt. A place quite firmly occupied by Griffith.
The “This time, I was the one left behind.” goes to show that Guts now wholeheartedly sees himself leaving the first time around as an act of abandonment, there’s no allusion to leaving to pursue his own dream because really even back then- :”Now I realise, this was what I’d been seeking this whole time.”
What I also like about this is that Guts seems to treat it as Griffith sort of “Paying him back’ for that offense. So he’s kind of subconsciously seeing Neo-Griffith as a very human, emotionally motivated figure with remnants of the ‘original’ Griffith’s emotional experiences and for once Guts might just really be on to something.
Also Interestingly, as mentioned before i guess, ever since the Eclipse all of Gut’s memories of Griffith have morphed into images of him standing with his back towards Guts or at a distance and the imagery is really interesting to me here. Because it could signify so much.
We know that the image of Griffith’s back, kneeling in the snow has sort of become a haunting image for Guts. What if the turned back everywhere else is an extension of this, the fact that all his memories are tinged with the same regret or guilt.
Secondly it could be simply a perceived distance and further unreachability, because the past is literally an unachievable objective. And specifically that shot he has of the entire original band during the ‘companions’ speech. Griffith is walking away in the background there, it’s almost as if Guts realises that even during what he considered his happiest memories he was already losing Griffith.
Oh and the “Campfire from those days still burns in my heart” spread?
First of all. Ahhem.
Second of all once again you compare in importance a woman you literally have an appendage of yours inside in that particular shot with this other guy who actually looms much larger. An more encompassing. With his presence literally symbolically wrapped around you for emotional warmth.
Also Under his cover but behind his back and I really wonder if that has significance too.
And then again maybe simply because he doesn’t know what face to give him. Is it the face of a friend, an enemy, something else all together? Guts doesn’t really know yet.
lol i was almost going to make my original post like twice as long by going on to guts’ decision to stick with casca this time and how it’s framed as him trying to make up for abandoning griffith etc. but then i was like, this is already rly long.
also good point about Guts interpreting Griffith rejection as payback – ia, i don’t think Guts is exactly wrong about that lol.
I’ve been reading Guts’ memories of Griffith’s back (bc yeah I noticed that too, he’s always facing away) as, I guess, recognition that that relationship has been destroyed. Whenever Guts remembers leaving Griffith he’s looking back at him kneeling in the snow, which tbh strikes me as symbolic rather than literal because Guts never looked back. It’s a visual representation of Guts’ acknowledgement that he left Griffith behind. And I think Guts’ other memories of Griffith with his back to him are similar – an acknowlegement that Guts ruined everything and now he’s back to chasing Griffith. I might say more on that in a separate post actually.
and lol the campfire from those days spread is so damn blatant in its acknowledgement of the fact that guts and casca hooked up not only while they were both in love with griffith but, tbh, because of it. at least that’s what i get when i look at a picture of 2 ppl fucking while wrapped in the symbolic flowing cape of the dude they were both acknowledgedly obsessed with plus like you said, it’s with griffith facing away. Which, to me, adds the sense of them trying to fill a hole left by his loss.
Which is why it makes perfect sense to show us this image at this point in the narrative while Guts is contemplating revenge and rescuing Casca because he’s shifting from trying to fill that hole by chasing Griffith/Femto down and “[giving] him a heap of raw iron” to trying to fill it with Casca again (tho he doesn’t actually solidify that choice until NeoGriffith ditches him).
And I think it’s going to be a mistake – we see that Guts leaving revenge behind is good, but his desperation to get Casca back is not so good and will probably have consequences. And I think we’re supposed to understand that he’s doing it for the wrong reasons – if he wanted Casca sane again for her sake he’d be giving her time and a safe place to recover, or just to live. He wants Casca sane again for his own sake bc a) he can’t let go of the past and she represents the Hawks, b) he’s trying to make up for leaving Griffith and c) he’s still trying to fill the Griffith-shaped hole in his heart.
And then again maybe simply because he doesn’t know what face to give
him. Is it the face of a friend, an enemy, something else all together?
Guts doesn’t really know yet.
yk whenever i see this picture i always think about how much i love the way it illustrates the concept that guts and griffith never grew out of their stupid baby dreams and might as well be kids playing war
but you’re right, guts and griffith going on a romantic walk together on a nice summer late-afternoon and guts not even bringing his sword is extremely important and doesn’t get nearly enough attention
I haven’t re-read Berserk in over two years so I may not know what I’m talking about but I’m queueing stuff rn and came across those pages leading up to the moment when Griffith finally sacrificed them all, and I love how “You’re the only one who made me forget my dream” sounds both like a slight accusation and like an excuse of sorts
omg yes, tbh i think what really makes that moment feel so impactful to me every time i read it is that i can feel the genuine love and tenderness (you’re the only one…) but it definitely reads like an accusation to me (you did this to me, you made me fall in love with you, you made me weak, you’re the reason i threw away my dream). it’s that duality that gets me
Not to lose my GriffGuts cred here;
But Charlotte coping with her life going directly into the toilet by obsessing like a lunatic on, on some level, the person who caused the problem in the first place, Resenting and Remembering the appropriate people, swallowing that rage without getting her hair out of place and making angry, but perfect embroidery; all of this together makes me think, maybe y’all should be together?
lmao i was about to write a long reply about how yeah it makes sense that charlotte’s obsessed with him, i buy it, before i re-read and went …oh lol i see what you did there
maybe guts has been carrying charlotte’s behelit all along lol. 3 years of repressing bullshit and fixating on someone only to find out he never gave a fuck and is in love with someone else might take a toll.
~parallels~
embroidery does seem like a healthier outlet than trying to maim your crush so he won’t leave you if we’re comparing them though lol so maybe she’s not apostle material.
but yk griffith ran away to repress his emotions forever in the form of turning into a demon, charlotte can be healthier and just run away with anna.
(will i ever talk about charlotte without pushing my charlotte/anna agenda? signs point to no)
lol, yk i’m surprised i haven’t seen a parody berserk intro set to the friends theme yet now that you mention it.
you think the torturers being outcasts collected by and devoted to mozgus is supposed to be a preview of neogriff’s apostles/war demons
tbh actually it makes sense bc it’s easy to view mozgus and neogriff as foils. like they both got that sinister angelic thing going on but their differences are more light-shedding than any similarities – the whole conviction rebirth arc was largely about outcasts and creating enemies out of other groups to strengthen your group (ie religion) while the point of falconia is to unite humanity with literal fantasy monsters as the enemy. mozgus’ outcasts tortured people, griffith’s save people. mozgus condemned most people, griffith accepts everyone. mozgus upheld the status quo and the way of the world (those with power trample those without) while griffith creates a world with a new status quo
and this is humanity’s deepest desire so it’s basically a direct response to mozgus and people like him dividing and conquering and demonizing outsiders and upholding nobility while making the lower classes suffer etc.
there’s a whole false god vs true saviour w/ divine right vibe i get from this comparison. and i mean the true saviour is still a largely cynical depiction since berserk is in part a criticism of religion, “god” included, but neogriff’s utopia is a lot less easy to denounce as fucked up and evil than mozgus’ inquisition thing.
a partial list of berserk characters whose narratives are propeled by love for a guy:
casca farnese schierke charlotte sonia mule griffith guts every single currently living apostle
@mastermistressofdesire said:
oh I was going to say
something about how the convincing and cajoling about piling bodies was
seemed mostly intended towards convincing him to sacrifice the non-guts
parts of the band of the hawk. The seeds for wanting Guts gone had
already been planted during the year of torture. It’s just that actually
being surrounded by the real Guts after that kinda made it apparent
that his emotions hadn’t quite caught up to that line of thinking, he
can’t help that being
with Guts again is currently blocking all that out because of simply how amazing and comforting and warm and fluffy it feels
Also I was going to write about some
panels from the post-torture arc which I realised I should actually
complement with pictures so that post is kind of in the works.
lol so i totally missed this response from however long ago. i wonder if it was when the tumblr activity page was buggy and refusing to load all the way.
but now that i’ve coincidentally happened to see it i just wanted to say yeah! i was actually thinking of adding another paragraph about how it would make sense symbolically that griffith has 2 separate motivations for the sacrifice, one for the band and one for guts, bc it underlines that guts (as several characters kept harping on about) wasn’t even part of the band at that point, and that he’d never actually been a volunteer to die for Griffith’s dream in the first place – his loyalty was won in a duel.
also if you’re still planning on making that post torture post i’d love to read it!
That post is STILL in the works ( damn I have that sort of analytical-block thing you mentioned)
But there was this one thing from that I kind of feel like mentioning.
So that point when right at the beginning of the Eclipse , the existing Godhand are kind of laying out what is to come. Starting there.
So since the moment Guts grabbed Griffith’s shoulder till this point, Griffith’s been kind of listless. He was already past the point of despair when it started and he hasn’t really responded to much since then. The shock is almost like a carryover from his reaction to Guts touching him rather than fresh shock from exclusively the eclipse stuff. In any case his eyes are unfocused, he doesn’t give any reaction to the people shouting, casca barking orders or Guts asking him if he’s alright.
Then Slan basically tells them all that Griffith’s going to become a demon and they are all going to die and Griffith looks up in shock . He tries to reply for a moment, no sound comes out and then everyone behind them starts whispering and getting scared and he shuts down and goes back to staring at the ground.
This is just what I personally thought but to me, it seemed like he was trying to protest her assertion, but trying to speak simply reminded him of his condition and coupled with the fact that the men (according to him) already believed it, he just sort of gave up thinking ‘what’s the use anyway.’
BUT BUT. Then Guts gets pissed and starts yelling. And screams at the GOdhand for even daring to suggest such a thing. And I looked at Griffith’s face in that panel, he’s looking at Guts with such a wonderstruck and shocked expression.
Let alone that situation, I wonder if Griffith’s ever had someone stand up for him or defend him before. Griffith’s always been about fighting his own battles and standing up for his beliefs and dreams. Whatever he’s needed, he’s done himself.
I honestly think this was the first time anyone had ever openly tried to defend him. You can see it in his face. And you can see it later when the alter is raised and he’s trying to hold on to it, hold on to Guts when he slips.
I think it’s so wonderfully tragic how a single tear, a single sentence from Guts can make Griffith rewrite everything he’s felt till that point.
And even after everything, the fact that he looks shocked at that and just quietly accepting once Guts lets go -breaks my heart.
tbh I don’t really have any solid detailed ideas here. I can say that if I was reading it I’d want this au to still have a misunderstanding and stupid “breakup” and I think my preference would be for Griffith to downward spiral somehow (not like a torture chamber, but idk risky behaviour, stupid decisions, dropping out of uni, that kinda thing) after Guts leaves to find himself, and for them to get together after Guts comes back and finds him miserable and self destructive. Like, re-do the Golden Age but fate isn’t a thing and gods aren’t a thing and Griffith still has a tongue so Guts has his revelation that he shouldn’t’ve left and instead of summoning gods they figure their shit out and then make out.
Also I’m gonna tag @yesgabsstuff and @mastermistressofdesire and also if anyone else wants to get in on this plz do bc frankly I am not creative enough to contribute much to entertaining au ideas lol. My style is like, ok well here’s what happened in canon so let’s do the exact same thing but slightly different bc of circumstances.
I mean usually I really like keeping things as close to cannon as possible but somehow a lot of these possibilities are simply shameless self-indulgence in my head.
I mean maybe they even get together, in the manner of normal people. Like just hanging out together somewhere and the atmosphere is right and … hey actually this can happen in cannon too. That balcony conversation? the ‘do I need a reason every time I risk myself for your sake’ one? That. Except no king interruption.. So like Zodd’s like this big violent gang dude who is a part of a big gang in the nearest big city. He just comes to their town, looking for fights and beating people up. Guts gets into a fight with him after zodd beats up some of the people he was mentoring in his group and Griffith kinda comes and saves his ass. And they later have this conversation.
Except this time when Guts says “No, there’s just something I want to tell you…” he GETS TO SAY IT. And he very awkwardly tries to convey that he has these feelings. And Griffith doesn’t turn around for the longest time and Guts panics and he’s like- I’m sorry, why would you wanna hear that- I just ran my mouth like an idiot, I’ll just leave. And he starts to leave, Griffith doesn’t react. He climbs down the stairs. Stops for a moment. Then says ‘Fuck it” and runs up again and Griffith’s still standing frozen in the exact same position.
At which point Guts worried smart ass self says “Wtf did I break you?”
And Griffith turns to him and says “Maybe.”
Guts walks up really cautiously because he’s half expecting this to be one of Griffith’s elaborate jokes. So they stand around awkwardly for a little while. Then Griffith smooches him without warning. And then there’s a moment of standing-off where they just stare at each other. And then there’s like a flurry of activity and it turns out into like a replay of the water fight. Except they’re being giggling idiots about who gets to give the most disgusting wet smooch.
And this was already self-indulgent enough and had minimum to do with the au in question and I’m so so sorry but idk I want them to be happy little kids sometimes and though I have more canon- appropriate situations which might make more sense for these two ( i might add those later actually, if anyone is interested) I want this interaction to end with Griffith pointing to his crutch and making a comment about already limping and Guts choking. Like this would never happen it’s a 100% crack but it makes me laugh in this dark and dreary age.
awww.
ok but honestly one of the gr8 things about berserk is i feel like it’s actually an ideal canon for fluff? partially because i personally love to read fluffy shit in dark canons when there’s always that ominous forboding underneath (in canon-compliant missing-scene stuff) or the knowledge that it could be so much worse (in au stuff), but also partially because Guts and Griffith do have moments like this, like – it’s in character for them to goof around and act like kids and be cute together! And I love that as a contrast to their epic tragedy tbh.
I know the movie changed this scene like hell, but it made a lot more sense to me like this? I just like having them all in the same frame and that “Yo!” and eye-softening exchange was very in-character and precious.
yeah i missed the “Griffith took off during important meetings bc he heard you were back” thing but I can see why they skipped it and Griffith coming to save them personally w/ the soft endearing smiles is a perfect replacement
I mentioned a while ago that the first time I feel we got a real visual* glimpse of Guts’ hound-esque inner darkness chronologically was during the rescue mission.
The way he cuts out the torturer’s tongue is very reminiscent of his tendency to torture apostles before killing them imo (which probably has its origins in the way he killed Donovan), and then he just rampages through the castle like a demonic one-man army, very black swordsman ish.
Look at this imagery like:
(i love Casca’s ‘holy shit dude’ expression)
Plus you got Charlotte saying he scares her, and the Wyald fight is when everyone starts comparing Guts to a monster and saying he’s inhuman.
So I was thinking – why? Why would we get this before the Eclipse, before he starts killing ghosts and infusing his sword with Essence of Darkness, before the brand + killing monsters make him literally superhuman? Why do we get our first look at monster slaying, revenge-obsessed, black swordsman Guts a day and only a day before the main event, the point of which is to make him revenge-obsessed, even takes place?
And I want to suggest that it’s because this is it – this is Guts’ revenge spree. It’s not one revenge spree that ends, followed immediately by another unrelated revenge spree. It’s the same rage. He killed the torturer like he kills apostles, then he fought an actual apostle to defend Griffith, then the Eclipse happened and he declared war.
It’s all intimately connected in Guts’ mind and emotions:
He started off on a vengeful rampage for Griffith in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt, and he continued on a vengeful rampage against Femto/NeoGriffith, also in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt.
We know this because as he’s running towards Griffith in the torture chamber Guts thinks about how it’s his fault that Griffith is there without actually coming to a proper conclusion (if that’s the case… then I –) – and he reaches that conclusion (was I the one who brought all this upon you?) right as he’s running towards Griffith at the site of the Eclipse. Guts’ guilt is strongly associated with his rage this way. Guilt followed by external target followed by lashing out.
Idk, there’s just such a through line to me from Casca telling him it’s his fault to the Eclipse. The most significant moments of Guts’ internal thoughts are given to him processing this information and finally concluding that he fucked up right before the Eclipse begins. The Eclipse didn’t then erase his feelings of guilt, it just let him continue to repress those feelings and gave him acceptable targets to lash out at instead of dealing with his feelings.
Now this is a bold statement, but I think that in a way, rampage part 1, kill half the soldiers of Midland, and rampage part 2, kill demons, are both about Guts avenging Griffith – the latter only in part ofc, because the rest of the Hawks need to be avenged too now.
Because the thing is, I think he still sees Griffith as a victim. After finally acknowledging that Griffith did sacrifice everyone, he still looks back at him wistfully. He thinks of Griffith while flashing back to the lost Hawks after the Eclipse. He tells Rickert that NeoGriffith isn’t the Griffith he knows (incidentally something Rickert repeats to NeoGriffith later, which NGriff acknowledges). He flashes back to Griffith in the snow a lot. To Guts, Griffith isn’t his friend who turned out to be a dick, Griffith is his friend who basically committed fantasy murder/suicide after being tortured for a year because Guts broke him by leaving.
His feelings towards Femto/NeoGriff are complicated and fucked up as all hell, but while his feelings for Griffith feed into his complicated feelings for Femto/NeoGriff, his hatred for F/NG doesn’t retroactively affect his feelings towards human Griffith. They’ve remained pretty solidly longing, guilt, love, regret. He’s not thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and feeling rage at what he would go on to do a year later, he’s thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and trying to find a way to atone for it. Griffith is still explicitly part of the “campfire from those days still [burning in his] chest.”
Idk basically I just wanted to say that a part of Guts’ fuel for his revenge rampage was feeling responsible for Griffith’s pain and not being able to save Griffith from it, both the first time against Midland and the second time against the Godhand, and I chose a very long drawn-out way to do that.
* I specify visual glimpse bc i think there’s a solid argument that it’s there when he kills Donovan, based on the way he taunts him and tortures him briefly first, but we don’t have any of the ragey demonic imagery associated with Guts’ darkness there – he just looks like a kid. So I feel like it works as a point of origin for a lot of Guts’ dark vengeful urges (Donovan is the first monster he killed), but he wasn’t anywhere close to losing himself to darkness then.
lmao i’m looking at my immediate reactions when i first re-read berserk last year when it was all surprising and i remembered almost nothing and this is what i wrote right b4 the hill of swords scene:
little blacksmith girl: let’s all live together here! guts: remembers griffith and his pretty hair interesting to think of guts as a parallel to pre-eclipse griffith when griffith IS his ambition. i hope that doesn’t make casca his weakness. i feel like she’s a wild card that could make shit interesting and different when she gets her mind back or could ruin any potential fun guts/griffith emotional shit. i want his hate for griffith to be his ambition and his love/hope for him/his former self to be his weakness. that’s how i’d do it anyway
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT THE NEXT FUCKING PAGE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA “just as I got her back… no in the middle of swinging my sword to get her back… I… saw him… The way he appeared before me… he wasn’t a demon. He looked so human. As if he’d been stolen from the past, the way he used to be. The instant I saw him… I’d forgotten my urge to kill.” AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
like gj me, i somehow managed to make that page even more satisfying than it is already
also guts’ revenge being his ambition and his remaining love for griffith being his weakness in a parallel to golden age griffith is still a good idea tbh. the whole sidequest thing is casca-centric sure which lends itself to the thought that casca is the ~key~ to guts dropping his ambition (the way guts was griffith’s key but unfortunately fate) – but yk what a huge part of why guts is going on his casca sidequest is to atone for leaving griffith in the snow lol. it always comes back to griffith.
yk it’s fun how the first 3 apostles guts kills reflect the tone + our deepening understanding of the story and guts in particular
1. snakeman. pure evil. no redeeming value here lol, he’s just a mean snake who eats people and gloats about it. guts is a badass angry man who wants to kill monsters grr
2. count slug. real big dick. but he he loves his daughter and can’t sacrifice her and also his wife cheated on him. guts is a badass angry man who wants revenge on some god but he cries sometimes and has a complicated history with the god in question
3. rosine. real sympathetic, in love with her bff jill, guts has a hard time landing a killing blow bc he feels sorry for her, abusive parents, etc. we now know guts’ backstory and understand him and his complex feelings and his trauma and the fact that he was in love with his bff and vice versa etc
eggman doesn’t count bc guts didn’t kill him, and anyway that whole thing was more about religion than guts
bonus #4 tho: griffith kills ganeshka who reflects griffith:
wants to rule the world bc of his weakness (fear) vs griffith wanting to rule the world bc of his weakness (guilt). ascends to a higher plane vs ascending to a higher plane. has a breakdown bc he’s alone and confused and doesn’t know who he is vs guess we’ll wait and see
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