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i really want to know what guts told rickert. like i want to know how guts phrases the explanation, what he mentions or doesn’t mention, how he describes it and what he emphasizes, etc. i feel like we were kind of robbed by skipping it, even though it does make sense to skip bc an explanation of something we already saw is redundant.

but idk it could’ve been a good character moment bc we’ve never actually seen guts rly talk about the eclipse and griffith etc. especially not to someone who also knew griffith.

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

consider the following:

Until that day. The day you showed up.

vs

Until Guts overheard Griffith’s dream speech.

Casca had her place at Griffith side, nursing her crush on Griffith, then Guts showed up and took that place with much greater success than Casca had. Then Guts overheard the dream speech, decided to vacate his place and hand it back to Casca, which he does by encouraging Casca and Griffith to get together romantically.

And idk this is just a good parallel to illustrate some of that.

Oh absolutely.

among the other parallels I sometimes visually compare how Guts and Casca keep exchanging positions as the series goes on.

For example in the panel when Griffith gets shot on the hunting trip, Casca immediately rushes to cradle Griffith (helpless expression) and Guts draws his sword and stands facing outward(looking protective) in front of them, looking for the source of the threat.

Later after griffith’s rescue from the tower when Wyald grabs and drops him, Guts is the one who rushes to cradle him (helpless expression) and Casca draws her sword and stands over them (looking protective).

And I love this.

The second scene is also one of my favorite moments of all three of them in general. Because Casca is in full lioness gaurding her Cubs mode. And Guts literally just let go of his sword in a threatening situation for the first time ever and it’s all just very significant to me.

consider the following:

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Until that day. The day you showed up.

vs

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Until Guts overheard Griffith’s dream speech.

Casca had her place at Griffith side, nursing her crush on Griffith, then Guts showed up and took that place with much greater success than Casca had. Then Guts overheard the dream speech, decided to vacate his place and hand it back to Casca, which he does by encouraging Casca and Griffith to get together romantically.

And idk this is just a good parallel to illustrate some of that.

Do you think there’s possibility for Miura to continue using Casca as a plot-device character between Guts and Griffith? I’m sure she will be healed but I’m not looking forward to the role she’s going to play. Miura seem to likes to pull more drama through Casca.

lol so this response is going to be kind of long because you made me want to talk about her story role and speculate a bit lol, so ty for sending this.

I think there’s a difference between having whatever Casca does when she gets her mind back further the relationship between Guts and Griffith, and having Casca function as solely a plot device for the sake of the Guts Griffith story.

By which I mean secondary characters should serve the central protagonist’s story, but they should do that while also having their own satisfying arcs that serve their own characters as well. So a well-written secondary character would have her own arc, her own issues, her own stuff to work through and her own reason and way of developing, and that could still shed light on the protagonist as a parallel, or foil, or simply by weaving their stories together and playing them off each other.

When Casca was an active character during the Golden Age, there were a lot of problems I had with her writing, but she did have her own story. It was a story about being obsessed with first one man and then another, and how much it sucks to be a woman surrounded by attempted rapists, and having emotional breakdowns, etc, so like, not a great story, but she had her own issues, she made mistakes based on those issues, she changed based on her experiences.

Eg when she and Guts slept together they were both using the other as a substitute for Griffith, so at least it wasn’t just Guts using Casca, they were using each other. (And I don’t mean using in a cruel way, just in a there’s-other-stuff-going-on-for-both-of-them-than-just-wanting-each-other kind of way.) That scene didn’t only further Guts’ internal story, it also furthered Casca’s. Ofc Guts’ story was furthered by working thru trauma and starting to recognize past mistakes while Casca’s was furthered by switching which dude she’s obsessed with, so like, still a shitty story for her, but c’est la berserk.

So yeah I don’t think her writing was that great during the Golden Age, but it cleared the bare minimum bar of giving her her own motivation and character arc at least, even though her own story was pretty weak compared her more blatant, main function of serving the relationship between Guts and Griffith.

Then after the Eclipse she became a complete plot device with absolutely no story of her own, only existing for Guts to play off of and project onto.

So I guess what I think is most likely to happen is that when Casca gets her mind back, she’s going to have her own motivations and goals again. She’s going to do something active, based on what she wants. But whatever it is she does is also going to further Guts and Griffith’s story, and lbr it’s still going to revolve around her relationships with the men. So hopefully she won’t be so much just a plot device, and her own choices, goals, actions, etc might even be stronger and more central to the plot than they were during the Golden Age, but Guts is still the protagonist so Casca’s story is sitll going to further his story and his relationship with Griffith.

My guess, based on where she was when she was traumatized to insanity, and where the story has gone since then, and where I think (hope lbr) the story goes, is that she’ll come back and be similar to where Guts was right after the Eclipse. In the last 200 or so chapters Guts grew, he worked at refocusing on his own emotional growth rather than revenge, he made friends, he chilled out, he’s in a much better place mentally than he was during the Black Swordsman arc.

But the story is still about the dark places trauma and desire for revenge take you. I think it would be interesting to shift the revenge theme to Casca. It would kick the plot into gear and make things happen because Casca would have a goal, this way we could bring Guts and Griffith’s narratives back together without having Guts’ development backslide into revenge obsession again, and it would make Casca an interesting foil to Guts – if she’s at the place he managed to work past, she’d be like a reflection of himself at his worst. Now Casca would be able to drive the plot, her goals would be the ones furthering the story, and Guts’ narrative would shift in focus from his own goals (revenge, fixing Casca) to reacting to Casca’s actions.

She would still serve the main story about Guts and Griffith by being the catalyst that brings them back together, by being a dark mirror to Guts, quite possibly by embodying the dark sexual undertone to revenge in a more blatant way than Guts did (bc lbr she’s always been the one to illuminate Guts’ desires by virtue of being a woman and making them hetero), and maybe by forcing Guts into making a choice between helping her and trying to stop her (either for her own sake or because he’s still ambivalent about killing Griffith or maybe both). But now she’d be serving the story by working towards her own goals based on her own experiences and her character, rather than by being a passive mindless object for Guts to interact with.

“What will she do if she does get her sanity back?” The fact that NeoGriffith instinctively saving her demonstrates a very strong disadvantage against her. The fact that the main characters all get to kill their own rapists/attempted rapists/abusers/etc. The way Guts decided he didn’t really have the right to avenge his comrades after abandoning the Band but you know who didn’t abandon the Band? The way revenge in Berserk isn’t always a bad thing, and it could be interesting to explore how it’s bad for Guts because he was basically using it as a form of self harm, but maybe for Casca it’s earned. The behelit which, if Casca is the one to use it, would open the door for more parallels between her and Griffith for Guts to play off of.

So I guess my overall answer to your question is that yeah, I think she’s still going to exist to further Guts’ story and relationship to Griffith, since that’s still the axel on which Berserk turns, but hopefully she’ll at least get to have some agency and motivation of her own while doing it, and if we’re really lucky her own internal story might be more important to the plot now than it was during the Golden Age.

But of course there’s always a horrifying chance that she’ll wake up and just be Guts’ love interest/narrative reward for moving beyond revenge, continuing to exist purely as an accessory to Guts rather than as herself, while something else moves the plot forward, but yk, prayer circle that that doesn’t happen. And like others have speculated with dread, there’s even a chance that she’ll join Griffith and make Guts return to rage and revenge in the worst possible way. I think it’s a tiny chance, like I really don’t expect that to happen, but you never know :/

(also the whole revenge speculation is just my preference bc i want casca to have the chance to get angry about what happened to her, and it seems plausible, but there are probably other routes for her story to go that would bring back her agency and have her affect the plot in satisfying ways.)

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i’m not over how ridiculously hot griffith is in this love triangle dynamic establishing scene

like he’s so obviously the point the other two are competing for i can’t handle it

i mean the page right after just says in words what the art says in art:

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like

the point of chapter 1 is to establish where the characters are at 3 years later and the important things we see are:

  • hawks kicking ass and rising up during the 100 years war
  • casca and guts both fixated on an extremely desirable griffith, griffith’s clear preference, casca’s resentment

also look at griffith’s expressions here

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he’s so damn fond and in love omg

wingsfreedom
replied to your post

“Do you think that human!Griffith/ Charlotte and Guts/Casca are good…”

Yes all of this. And as much as I dislike this theory: I think when Casca gets her mind back Muira will continue use her as a plot device to add more drama + drive the plot, because I find Casca has a weird connection with the Moon Light Child (her son) and he share the same body with Neo-Griffith, so she may mistaken she still has feelings for Griffith? And that will throw Guts of the edge more somehow when he finds out? It’s just a theory tho…

this sounds like such a worst case scenario and i really really hope it’s incorrect, but yeah you never know. I do have to wonder how the moonlight kid figures into everything, and it doesn’t seem entirely impossible that miura would go there.

Do you think that human!Griffith/ Charlotte and Guts/Casca are good couples?

Sorry if this is a disappointing answer, but not in the slightest.

Griffith/Charlotte is a complete sham from Griffith’s side, he’s just using her to become king. His seduction of her was completely calculated, except when he was distraught after Guts left, and the way his dream and Charlotte are conjoined and presented in opposition to his feelings for Guts makes his relationship with Charlotte read as a very strong symbol of unhealthy emotional repression imo.

Also Charlotte’s obsession is so intense it seems very unhealthy, like, embroidering Griffith’s face over and over for two years is a little much lol. We don’t get much of Charlotte’s side of it but what we do get is basically a naive girl totally taken in by Griffith’s fake seduction, and it’s kind of sad to me.

As for Guts and Casca, to me their relationship reads 100% as both of them redirecting their feelings for Griffith to each other. There are very strong parallels to both their relationships with him during the scene where they hook up, they both acknowledge that they’re not over Griffith afterwards, and after the Eclipse Casca basically functions as an outlet for Guts’ feelings about Griffith.

Casca’s issues with her lack of independent identity – becoming Griffith’s sword after Griffith saves her, then becoming Guts’ sword after she sleeps with him – are not a good start to any relationship, and the licking wounds description seems very apt. It was never a grand, epic romance, but it’s not even a particularly happy or healthy hook up. They fuck right after Guts lets Casca stab him while thinking about how abandoning Griffith was maybe a bad idea, and right after Casca tries to kill herself. Then Guts has a flashback and strangles her during, and Casca is just happy to finally have someone receptive to her attempts to comfort and support them.

Afterwards Guts invites her along in as non-committal a way as possible, like ‘idk maybe you coming with me will suck and you’ll throw off my groove and i’ll end up ditching you anyway, but i want more sex so let’s give it a shot.’ Which I honestly find hilarious in how unromantic it is.

And even as a low-key licking wounds hook-up it feels very narratively forced to me (which makes sense since Miura said he had them get together just to make the Eclipse more dramatic).

Like Judeau has to practically shove Guts at Casca for him to even consider it lol.

Then of course after the Eclipse you have Guts abandoning her in a cave for two years, assaulting her twice, and redirecting his feelings for Griffith to her again – not even just in the hound scenes but also when he decides to save her directly because he compares abandoning her in a cave to abandoning Griffith in the snow, and when he decides to stick with her only after Griffith abandoned him lol.

Plus Casca is terrified of him for good reason, and the idea of their relationship turning romantic again after Casca gets her mind back is something I find fairly horrifying after how he treated her.

She’s been reduced to nothing more than a symbol of Guts trying to keep his hold on humanity, she’s suffered for it, and if she gets her mind back and gets back together with Guts as a narrative “reward” to him for suffering through a shitty life, like I think a lot of Berserk fans want, I would be extremely disappointed.

(I have a very, very long post that goes into detail on Guts and Casca’s relationship and how it largely revolves around Griffith here, if you’re interested, but I’d only recommend reading it if you’re not a fan of their romance. it’s also about griffguts and gay subtext but so is most of my blog content lol)

also speaking of comparing the torture chamber and griffith becoming femto:

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idk seems like a fitting illustration of how by sacrificing guts, ie the light within him, a fissure opens up into which evil surges. even if it’s coincidental

meme thing

I was tagged by @griff-guts, ty!

Rules: Bold those statements that are true for you. Tag 9 people you’d like to know better.

APPEARANCE

I am 5′7″ or taller
I wear glasses
I have at least one tattoo
I have blond hair
I have brown eyes
I have short hair
My abs are at least somewhat defined
I have or have had braces.

PERSONALITY

I love meeting people
People tell me that I’m funny
Helping others with their problems is a big priority for me
I enjoy physical challenges
I enjoy mental challenges
I’m playfully rude with people I know well

I started saying something ironically and now I can’t stop saying it
There’s something I’d change about my personality

ABILITY
I can sing well
I can play an instrument
I can do over 30 push-ups without stopping
I’m a fast runner
I can draw well
I have a good memory
I’m good at doing math in my head
I can’t hold my breath underwater for over a minute
I have beaten at least 2 people on arm wrestling
I know how to cook at least 3 meals from scratch

I know how to throw a proper punch

HOBBIES
I enjoy playing sports
I’m on a sports team at my school or somewhere else
I’m in an orchestra or choir at my school or somewhere else
I’ve learned a new song in the past week
I work out at least once a week
I’ve gone for runs at least once a week in the warmer months
I have drawn something in the past month
I enjoy writing

I do or have done martial arts

EXPERIENCE
I have had my first kiss
I have had alcohol
I have scored the winning goal in sports game
I have watched an entire season of a TV show in one sitting
I have been at an overnight event
I have been in a taxi
I have been in the hospital or ER in the past years
I have beaten a video game in one day
I have visited another country

I have been to one of my favorite band’s concerts

RELATIONSHIPS
I’m in a relationship
I have a crush on a celebrity
I have a crush on someone I know
I have been in at least 3 relationships
I have never been in a relationship
I have asked someone out or admitted my feelings to them
I get crushes easily
I have had a crush on someone for over a year
I have had feelings for a friend

MY LIFE
I have at least one person I consider a best friend
I live close to my school
My parents are still together
I have at least one sibling

I lived in the United States
There’s snow right now where I live
I have hung out with a friend in the past month
I have a smartphone
I have at least 15CDs
I share my room with someone

RANDOM SHIT
I have breakdanced
I know a person named Jamie
I have had a teacher with a last name that’s hard to pronounce
I have dyed my hair
I’m listening to a song on repeat right now
I have punched someone in the last week
I know someone who has gone to jail
I have broken a bone
I know what I want to do with my life
I have eaten a waffle today
I speak at least 2 languages
I have made a new friend in the past year

not tagging anyone bc i’m lazy but if you want to do it plz do and @ me

yesgabsstuff
replied to your post “interesting question….”

@bthump Very true. For some reason I imagined Shisu being fragile before she lost her baby but I’m not sure that really makes much sense given the life she was living. With Miura it’s hard to tell if he expected us to imagine she recovered. Most of us seem to not have and that’s definitely more on him than on us as readers.

yeah absolutely. tbh i doubt miura ever thought of the answer to this question lol. i definitely also got the impression that shisu never recovered, but i guess that’s bc there’s nothing to go on and all we see of shisu is her not mentally well and then dying, so yeah. logically maybe it makes sense if she recovered but the writing tells us nada.

interesting question….

berserkerlover221:

since Shisu was not in her right mind…who really took care of Guts as a baby?? cus that boy need to learn to talk, walk, eat…i know damn well it wasn’t shisu. i mean she probably played and talked to him but didn’t teach him to walk and all the other stuff. i think it was the handmaidens…now all i want is a chapter dedicated to them taking care of guts

@yesgabsstuff @bthump @mastermistressofdesire

I never thought about this, good question. Yeah the handmaidens or whoever they were seems like a reasonable explanation. Guts probably learned a lot through imitation too, even without direct instruction, but yeah I’d fall back on the women with Shisu probably pitching in.

And I guess we don’t really know how out of it Shisu was – could be that between finding Guts and dying 3 years later she recovered mentally. It would make more sense for her to be in a depressed dissociative state for a few days rather than totally driven insane by a miscarriage imo, though Miura is kind of weird about trauma and mental regression with his female characters.

phydia63
replied to your post “wingsfreedom
replied to your post “Oh yeah, Griffith being dead will…”

I’d like for Griff to sacrifice himself for Guts, throwback to him being reckless when Guts is in danger like when he was human. It’ll break my heart but I’ll be happy too

yeaaah totally, this would be the ideal. especially since now that i think about it we already saw femto hesitating and failing to kill guts, so repeating that won’t have quite the same oomph

wingsfreedom
replied to your post “Oh yeah, Griffith being dead will effectively kill his potential…”

Good points. As much as I like Griffith character, I think he will die in the end. But will remembered as a hero nonetheless.

ty! and yeah tbh this seems likely to me. A hero in the eyes of the world at least. Maybe not the audience so much, but if we see a glimpse of humanity first I’ll be satisfied. (tbh I want to see him hesitate while fighting Guts or something.)

Oh yeah, Griffith being dead will effectively kill his potential redemption, pun maybe intended, and I’ll be really sad and disappointed.

I feel like it’s a pretty sure bet that at least his feelings for Guts survived the various transitions, but yeah I’m still waiting to find out how much of a relation NeoGriffith has to human Griffith. I don’t really think he’ll be technically redeemed either way, especially since his narrative seems kind of outside conventional morality what with Berserk’s take on God and religion and Griffith being the saviour of humanity etc etc, but the more of human Griffith, his feelings and character etc that remains, the better and more cathartic an emotional climax to the Guts and Griffith story is going to be, so yeah. I need that.

Like if he’s totally inhuman and all human Griffith’s feelings are dead and buried and it’s just fetus feelings left, the emotional catharsis can only be one-sided on Guts’ side, and meh. I’m seriously invested in NeoGriffith revealing some remaining emotional depth, and if he does it’s going to be amazing.

But lines like “my blood should have been frozen” and “this is the crystalization of your last tear shed” seem to hint at Griffith’s lingering emotions with the potential to be reawoken imo, so I’m assuming eventually that’ll get some good payoff.

craigslost replied to your post “phydia63
replied to your post “everyone look at how cute this panel…”

“oh yeah they’re fifteen” is has SUCH a different impact than “barely older than isidro” im losing my mind

lmao ikr but i mean look at this child:

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and i think isidro’s 14 rn so there u go, it’s terrifying.

phydia63

replied to your post  

“phydia63
replied to your post  “everyone look at how cute this panel…”

                       I just thought it was Miura’s art progression,
but nope, those were real child soldiers alright

yeeep. tbh guts’ age progression is actually rly laid out in detail so i think while reading it doesn’t strike you as much bc you see him grow up progressively, but going back after seeing 24 year old guts is jarring.

phydia63
replied to your post “everyone look at how cute this panel is”

they look so smol here! I didn’t really notice that reading the manga for the first time, but it really cements the fact that they are all so young

yeah that really struck me while re-reading it after getting used to adult guts lol, they really do look 15ish at the start of the golden age. like they’re barely older than isidro, lol, it’s kind of wild.

I saw that on the wiki, and idk where that info is from. The ages just really bug me, and I don’t like it’s inconsistent for some reason. Correct me if I’m wrong, but at one point Griffith is “around the same age as Guts” but at the other he’s “a little older than him”. I guess I don’t like the implication of Griffith dying because his age is frozen at 24 lmao

Yeah ikwym I wish there was some hard and fast canon on Griffith’s age like there is for Guts. But yeah I’m pretty sure the source for that is just behind the scenes adaptation material, so I wouldn’t call it canon. I like to think of Griffith as close to the same age as Guts myself.

tbh I don’t remember any other mention of Griffith’s age (or Casca’s for that matter) except Guts thinking Griffith is about the same age as him. But I def don’t remember everything, so I could definitely be wrong about that.

And yeah ia I don’t really like that implication either. But lol I think that’s mostly bc I like to think that Griffith’s feelings/personality/etc has the potential to be unfrozen, and “dead” sounds disappointingly final to me.

Is Griffith dead? Because his age is stuck on 24. And now both Casca and Guts are the same age as him even though we know Griffith was older than them both.

the only source I’ve ever seen for Griffith’s age is the film book. the only indication of his age we get in canon is Guts saying “he’s about the same age as me,” after Griffith’s naked speech, as far as I remember, so idk if we really do “know” that Griffith is older than them.

Of course I could be misremembering. Do you mind telling me where you got your information on their ages? I’ve been curious for a while if there’s actual canon somewhere telling us or if it’s just supplementary material from the behind-the-scenes of the adaptions.

If it is from the behind the scenes info, then it seems likely that the ppl who adapted it consider Griffith the character to have died when he transformed into Femto, if they cut his age off then. But that’s not necessarily canon.

Especially since even if you consider Griffith “dead” after going through a thorough magical transformation that destroyed most of his personality, he still experiences time so it’s kind of weird to cut his age off at 24 imo. I guess you could restart the count and call Femto 2 years old, and NeoGriffith one year old lol, since he goes through a magical “rebirth” every time, but that seems pedantic.