mostly berserk meta. i'm into berserk mainly for griffguts and i'm a huge fan of griffith.
Tag: b
also while i’m on chapter one
idk if this is a purposeful thing but this sequence makes me think of how both guts and griffith are used to isolation in different ways, guts as a loner, swinging his sword instead of showing up to the ceremony, and griffith surrounded by people but separate from them, rising above the rest of the hawks but looked down on by the whispering nobles in the audience.
and then i remembered that time miura said griffith draws out feelings of loneliness in (current) guts and the way they’re each others’ brightest things, how they both shine in each others’ eyes and hearts, and agh
there’s something just so good and satisfying about how these two lonely idiots found each other and their relationship with each other is the only thing that fully eases that loneliness. griffith as he opens up to guts and lets him see the real him, and guts as he begins to accept that he’s maybe genuinely found a home here with griffith, after griffith saves his life again for “no reason.”
and why guts overhearing the promrose speech had such a devastating effect on him, and why guts leaving had such a devastating effect on griffith
also it makes me think of how current guts is similar to griffith – he has friends and people he relies on, but he doesn’t fully open up to them. there was even a recent reminder that farnese’s feelings for guts are similar to casca’s for griffith.
Chapter One serves to re-establish the characters’ relationships with each other after three years fighting together and foreshadow their future conflicts as their relationships change. This is especially evident during the last scene of the chapter.
The interspersing of Guts’ rote sword exercise with Griffith’s knighting as
he reaches a significant milestone on the path to his dream subtly
illustrates the eventual conflict between Griffith’s dream and his
relationship with Guts by contrasting Guts’ aimlessness with Griffith’s
ambition, ie the source of Guts’ eventual inner conflict that leads to him leaving the Hawks.
And these directly subsequent panels in particular invite a visual
comparison between Guts’ sword and the sword that represents Griffith’s dream, hinting at the way Griffith is torn between Guts and his dream.
Finally, the clear phallic imagery indicates that they want to bone the fuck down.
ooh yeah this is one I’ve already got on my berserk playlist lol, it’s got that perfect blend of tender, tragic, and ominous. very immediately pre-eclipse to me.
also “my little hawk.”
i haven’t watched the new berserk anime, what’s the context for the brief golden age griffith flashbacks i’ve seen gifs of?
this is under a cut because it’s long, rambly, and stupid, and doesn’t even answer the question.
lol this honestly just defeats me entirely. idk man idk, I spent forever writing out an explanation for why the subject of toxic masculinity in Berserk defeats me, ie largely due to Miura’s total incoherence when it comes to misogyny, yk, the fact that’s he’s a huge misogynist himself really muddies the waters when it comes to sussing out where his misogyny ends and the characters’ misogyny begins.
Like how can I analyze toxic masculinity in Berserk when Miura frames, eg, the protagonist grabbing a woman’s tit during an argument as a cute moment? It’s absolutely possible to write useful and interesting things on the subject (shoutout to @yesgabsstuff who often has good thoughts on it), so I’m totally not saying that you’re wrong about it being important to Guts and Griffith’s characters/relationship, but the way I approach meta, from a ‘here’s what the narrative has to say on this using things like symbolism and parallels etc’ perspective, just doesn’t feel compatible, and frankly I suck at looking at stories from any other perspective lol.
But then I was like, but why can’t I write about gender roles in Berserk when I won’t shut up about things like sexual repression, which surely can’t actually be a more coherent subject?
It’s like, sexuality and Berserk? Hell yeah I got things to say. Gender and Berserk? my brain melts. idk idk idk. Maybe it’s because Miura thinks he has things to say about misogyny and gender but sucks at it, whereas the sexuality stuff could conceivably be accidental lol, and in any case is more subtle and therefore has fewer chances to be self-contradictory. And, less cynically, I’m sure there’s a cultural gap too that affects my ability to suss out what Miura is going for wrt masculinity/gender roles/etc.
And like, I feel I could almost answer this re: heteronormativity specifically, but honestly that also has a significant gendered component that I don’t feel up to tackling. Griffith as a knight in shining armour to attract Princess Charlotte and become an idealized heterosexual couple as he represses his feelings for Guts? Ok. But then when it comes to gender roles/masculinity and Griffith’s attraction to Guts I fall apart again. Is there a sense that Griffith’s attraction to Guts is partially something to shy away from because it makes him less of a masculine ideal? IDK! How does Griffith sleeping with Gennon for the sake of his heteronormative dream fit in? IDK! Does Guts shy away from his attraction to Griffith due in part to insecurity in his own masculinity? IDK! Is insecurity in his masculinity a deliberate aspect of his trauma? IDK!
I feel like his trauma absolutely informs how he leaps into danger at any given opportunity and stands against every monster he sees, which is very typically masculine, like, mb I’ve got the seed of something there (Casca wishing he’d run away sometimes? His choice to stay with Griffith in chapter 71 as turning away from fighting his own battles to regain a relationship and a sense of emotional openness that helped him heal from trauma in a much healthier way, but tragically undone by Casca urging him towards his own masculine ideal? that masculine ideal in both guts and griffith’s cases leading to an unleashed rapey dark side, and in both cases as a tragic alternative to a fulfilling relationship with each other? hmmmm) but I’m not confident in my ability to carry that thread through with an emphasis on gender roles/masculinity.
But I mean, maybe I’m just overcomplicating it lol, it’s not like everything has to fit perfectly in order to be worthwhile as a reading, and I’m not exactly married to authorial intent. Idk I’ll probably end up pondering this further and if I come up with anything I’ll definitely write it out, but as for now this is going to have to go pretty much unanswered.
tl;dr I got nothin atm, sorry anon, and idek if anything I wrote here makes sense lol.
Personally I think you should write your take on how toxic masculinity and heteronormativity affects the
characters and their relationship and @ me or link me, because I’m
interested in seeing what you have to say.
And anyone else with Thoughts on the subject should feel free and encouraged to leap in too.
The way I see it human Griffiths ambition to rule over a kingdom never truly came from him per say??? It derived from his destiny. It was his destiny, a fate he wasnt aware of, that was the driving force behind his every action, behind his every victory and the reason why it was possible for him to climb the rigid social ladder.
And I don’t think NeoGriffiths lack of humanity would be the cause behind Faconia’s fall(if it does fall)
As a human I dont
think Griffith wouldve been able to handle doing everything that
NeoGriffith did. Despite how strong Human Griffith was he was still
prone to stress, doubt and anxiety. As a human Griffith tried to be
everything that he managed to become as a godhand, perfect.
And him hiding behind his strength, charisma, and beauty did take its
toll on him as a human. Then add the stress of being the messiah to all
of humanity, old Griffith wouldnt be able to do it
tbh I never really saw fate as a reason in and of itself for any choices people make in Berserk. Everyone has their own reasons for doing whatever they do, those reasons just play perfectly into fate’s hands. At one point Flora equates fate and “encounters,” which I like because it’s basically like a perfect meld of fate and free will.
eg Guts was fated to be picked up off the side of the road by Gambino, which thoroughly shaped him as a person; Guts was fated to overhear Griffith’s Promrose Hall speech, and the reason he chose to leave was largely because of a bundle of issues Gambino left him with. So Guts and his choices make perfect sense with or without fate having a hand in his life, it just so happens that fate is there behind the scenes making sure he is shaped by the right people.
so for Griffith, God tells him that he basically shaped the entire world, and Griffith’s ancestry, in order to bring Griffith into the world with a perfect set of traits to become the next Godhand, but everything he thinks and feels and does still makes sense just as a person with his particular history. So I can’t really say he’s obsessed with his dream because it’s his destiny, he’s obsessed with his dream because he has a particularly obsessive personality and he happened to see it at the right time in his life or under the right circumstances to become fixated or w/e – because of destiny lol.
Idk it’s convoluted but you gave me an opening to explain my thoughts on fate in berserk and I took it lol.
anyway aside from that long fate tangent that’s barely related to what you said lol, ia that human Griffith wouldn’t be able to do what NeoGriffith does. For one thing he’d’ve been crushed by Ganeshka without his army of apostles. And even without that, even if he just became king of Midland the way he was planning, if Guts never left, ia that I could see a scenario where reality hits him square in the head, being king turns out to be not all its cracked up to be, he still finds his power too limited to do everything he wants to do, and he struggles a lot under the pressure.
having re-read some bits and pieces of the manga i think i just gained another layer of understanding as to why people are so certain griffith’s utopia is going to go downhill
it’s because he locked away his emotions. right? wanting to create an equal society where he could really help people was human griffith’s dream. but the current griffith, the one setting it all into motion, threw away his humanity
how can someone without emotions be able to understand and fix the pain of the world? that’s probably what most people are wondering about. if he can keep on track, and how long. it’s normal to be waiting for the ball to drop
but the thing is, as i’ve said many times before, griffith is not fulfilling his own wishes–he is fulfilling the wishes of humanity as a whole. and i think that’s exactly why it’s perfect for him to be a husk. because anyone with emotions would surely be driven to follow their own wishes instead
moreover, humanity also desired griffith as he is now, it’s all part of the plan. the change of the world, falconia, apostles, everything. so it’s really hard for me to see how miura could convincingly blame griffith for the fall of falconia/the world, if it is to fall at all
It’s so fitting that he did get rid of like… his entire motivation for wanting a kingdom. There’s something delightfully inhuman about NeoGriffith getting his kingdom because human Griffith was motivated by guilt, and wanting an escape from the pains of the world, and NeoGriffith has none of that, he just has like, this residual ambition divorced from his motivation, that coincides with humanity’s need.
It does make him like the ideal fulfiller of humanity’s desires. Give or take a Guts.
this page always fucking kills me because after he activates the behelit guts just keeps holding on to him and touching him and we don’t see his face again
until this page, and the way he’s leaning over and crying reminds me of his suicide attempt to boot
oh shit you’re right, it’s like almost a full chapter until we see his face again (thx to the interlude with puck and rickert) and then he’s CRYING BLOOD, and the blood drops and his posture do totally mirror the suicide attempt and agh, like this part isn’t painful enough already.
that makes perfect sense. he has low self-esteem so he projects his feelings onto guts and kinda living the relationship vicariously.. i don’t think this was in any way good because he completely disregarded both guts and casca’s feelings tbh (and griffith’s). guts did the same thing, like you said, but i don’t think he did that to such a detrimental degree iirc. i still don’t see why cishets love him so much tbh. thanks for the detailed reply!
lol i’ll take any excuse to go on and on about something, ty for your reply + giving me an opening 🙂
Yeah I have a lot of mixed feelings about Judeau. I’m still fond of him and I kind of like that he fits the “tertiary friend who gives the protag wise advice” slot except that a lot of his advice is terrible and makes things worse because he has his own issues too. it gives him a nice little bit of dimension. But lol I still resent him a bit for being the resident het cheerleader, and he’s far from the super good bro who gives great advice that a lot of Berserk fandom treats him as.
Yea…but if he had been a wise, old guy knowing basically everything and explaining “the truth” to our characters it would have been less exciting since this guy would have been right.
Even though Judeau knew a great bunch of things, he was completely unaware of some things and was one of the main drivers for the eclipse. I am not sure if Guts would have started a relationship with Casca…and that the two people important to him were a “thing” played a significant role in Griffith s deeds….
Yeah absolutely. lol imo one great thing about the golden age was that no one had all the answers, no one was “right,” at least not consistently. Even Godo’s brief flashback appearance where he helped inspire Guts’ sword swinging dream by being a blacksmith was not shown as totally right, and he’s the archetypal wise old dude.
lol and this was after he was briefly possessed and strangled her which is why Puck is so quick to absolve him
like even Guts knows that he was able to be possessed in that moment because his… hmm, because his dominant desires were aligned with the darkness of the spirits around him, I guess I’d put it? Because he’s tempted. Because part of him does want to kill Casca.
a la
Like the night scene where he strangles her and then feels like he can’t blame it on the spirits, at least not entirely, because “you desire this,” is there to set up the subsequent sexual assault and contrast it, since it takes place in broad daylight and is visually distinct from the possession in that Guts is not transformed at all, to show that Guts has the potential to be just as dark as the monsters and ghosts he fights (not exactly a subtle theme lol) when he loses control.
Yeah I think his heart was in the right place, it seems like he genuinely just wanted what was best for everyone even if his methods were a little… underhanded and dishonest. Like towards the end eg, he probably thought Griffith would be better off with him and his thieves than with Guts and Casca as well as vice versa (and if Guts and Casca stayed together while taking care of Griffith he might’ve even been right, bc lbr that would’ve been a shitshow lol.) He’s likeable, and fun, and he has some great moments, like telling Guts he’s sure he’ll find what he’s looking for with the Hawks. Ngl his death scene always makes me cry lol, I do def like him overall, in part because he makes mistakes too.
Also I wonder if there isn’t a subtle indication from Miura that Judeau and Casca should’ve gotten together instead of Guts and Casca, and it’s its own little sub-tragedy based on stupid self-esteem issues that they didn’t. The way during the Eclipse Judeau does his best to save her and defends her with his own life while Guts is up on the hand still trying to “save” Griffith lol feels kind of starkly telling. I don’t ship them myself, I like their friendship and I kind of wish Judeau hadn’t had a crush the whole time lol, but it fits into the whole missed opportunity vibe of the Golden Age.
It is kind of a shame that the Golden Age side characters got way less backstory and development than the current RPG group, but the current group has so much more time. Like 200+ chapters vs 70. I did love the little enriching hints we got about the Hawks though, like Judeau feeling inadequate as a jack of all trades, the hints that Corkus is bitter about his own lost dreams. I’d say ‘etc’ but actually that’s about it really. Wish we got more on Pippin too.
Holy moly, what have we even been doing for the last 200+ chapters?? As much as I love the rpg group, nothing beats the original Hawks for me.
I definitely think that the Golden Age was all about people missing what was right in front of them, and losing their chances, or screwing them up on purpose. I mean, it can’t just be Guts and Griffith in this crapsack world that do it.
You mentioned how during the eclipse Guts was focusing of Griffith while Judeau was focused on Casca. Got me thinking about how his final acts were to be a literal shield over her body, and how he fell from her arm as he died. I don’t have the scans, but it reminded me of how Guts and Casca always compare themselves to swords. A sword and shield go mighty well together.
Lmao right? It really puts it into perspective when you realize the Golden Age was less than 100 chapters and we’re on 354 now.
Yeah that really sums up the Golden Age in a nutshell lol. And Judeau’s thoughts at the end do include, “I missed my chance to say it,” which fits.
tbh good call with the sword/shield imagery. Like yeah he does literally use himself as a human shield against that one weird apostle, and then Casca leaps up and kills it with her sword. I could def see that being purposeful. Also like… Judeau is Casca’s last real human interaction with someone before she’s driven insane. I’d love to see that acknowledged when she wakes up tbh.
You found the image I was talking about! I already put it on the post itself, but the way he fell off her arm reminds me of how shields are worn on the arm and get dropped when they’re broken!
This chapter was pure badassery on so many levels. I really hate that basically every female character is subjected to assault tho. All of them. (Sadly, I guess it’s not so different from the world we live in.)
On a GriffGuts note, I wonder if the reason Guts focuses so much on casca’s assault is because it drives home for him what Griffith has become. Griffith being his singular focus and all.
Whereas in the last chapter that got released, Casca’s memories encapsulate the whole Eclipse.
Yeah it’s genuinely fantastic, badass and touching and emotional and then it ends… like that
tbh ia. It’s like the way Guts wasn’t angry at Griffith, just sad and regretful, even while all his friends were dying and he was being attacked by a hoard of monsters, up until the rape scene. In a way it makes sense for Guts to focus on that since it’s like, the source of his violent rage that keeps him going and keeps him wanting to kill Griffith/Femto, as opposed to the rest of the Eclipse which is probably more a source of guilt (”was I the one who drove you…?”)
the beast of darkness pretty much suggests that this is why Guts was keeping Casca with him, basically so he could brood. (As did Miura in one interview :/)
Idk I wish it wasn’t so utterly manpain-y, with Guts being so focused on something that didn’t even happen to him, to the detriment of the person it actually did happen to, just so he can stay angry. You’d think his missing arm would be enough of a reminder. But it is what it is, and at least it’s not really portrayed in a positive light I guess.
Ye, the manpain is rlly intense. Muira basically fridged her and Farnesca is my only solace. And the hope that she gets badass again and bitchslaps N.Griffith and Guts tbh.
Personally the way I read it is that Guts put Griffith above acts like that, and what he did to Casca is a display of how corrupted Femto is compared to HIS Griffith. Guts would have gladly given an arm for Griffith under any circumstances, but to see him attack Casca was unthinkable from original Griffith in Guts’ mind.
I definitely don’t agree with the fact that it happened in the narrative, and even less with how she was treated as a character afterwards. (I feel like I’d be more ok with her insanity if the assault had been left out.) But considering I don’t buy the idea that Guts and Casca were “meant to be together”, my only conclusion in terms of Guts’ character is that it demonstrated how far the Godhand had perverted the man he loved. I’m really crossing my fingers that the upcoming chapters don’t focus too much on that part of her narrative.
yeah pretty much agreed on all counts.
While Guts accepted that Griffith made the sacrifice and even seemed to understand to an extent, raping Casca was like a harsh dividing line, and I’m sure that was the whole point from a writing perspective. Griffith saved her from rape, Femto destroys her through it, contrasts, yadda yadda yadda.
tbh it’s very telling that while Guts’ feelings towards Femto/NeoGriff are “tainted” by his love for human Griffith – eg still wanting his attention, still can’t stand to be looked down on by him, forgets his urge to kill when NGriff sheds the evil exoskeleton, acts like he got dumped when NGriff flies away on Zodd, etc – his feelings towards human Griffith haven’t changed. He doesn’t think back on him and hate him, he only feels longing/regret/loneliness/guilt/love/friendship/etc when he thinks of him.
Like it really does seem to show that Guts hates Femto/NGriff because he’s not his Griffith. When he reminds him of his Griffith, ie, when NeoGriff shows up, he suddenly finds it a lot harder to hate him.
Yeah I think his heart was in the right place, it seems like he genuinely just wanted what was best for everyone even if his methods were a little… underhanded and dishonest. Like towards the end eg, he probably thought Griffith would be better off with him and his thieves than with Guts and Casca as well as vice versa (and if Guts and Casca stayed together while taking care of Griffith he might’ve even been right, bc lbr that would’ve been a shitshow lol.) He’s likeable, and fun, and he has some great moments, like telling Guts he’s sure he’ll find what he’s looking for with the Hawks. Ngl his death scene always makes me cry lol, I do def like him overall, in part because he makes mistakes too.
Also I wonder if there isn’t a subtle indication from Miura that Judeau and Casca should’ve gotten together instead of Guts and Casca, and it’s its own little sub-tragedy based on stupid self-esteem issues that they didn’t. The way during the Eclipse Judeau does his best to save her and defends her with his own life while Guts is up on the hand still trying to “save” Griffith lol feels kind of starkly telling. I don’t ship them myself, I like their friendship and I kind of wish Judeau hadn’t had a crush the whole time lol, but it fits into the whole missed opportunity vibe of the Golden Age.
It is kind of a shame that the Golden Age side characters got way less backstory and development than the current RPG group, but the current group has so much more time. Like 200+ chapters vs 70. I did love the little enriching hints we got about the Hawks though, like Judeau feeling inadequate as a jack of all trades, the hints that Corkus is bitter about his own lost dreams. I’d say ‘etc’ but actually that’s about it really. Wish we got more on Pippin too.
Holy moly, what have we even been doing for the last 200+ chapters?? As much as I love the rpg group, nothing beats the original Hawks for me.
I definitely think that the Golden Age was all about people missing what was right in front of them, and losing their chances, or screwing them up on purpose. I mean, it can’t just be Guts and Griffith in this crapsack world that do it.
You mentioned how during the eclipse Guts was focusing of Griffith while Judeau was focused on Casca. Got me thinking about how his final acts were to be a literal shield over her body, and how he fell from her arm as he died. I don’t have the scans, but it reminded me of how Guts and Casca always compare themselves to swords. A sword and shield go mighty well together.
Lmao right? It really puts it into perspective when you realize the Golden Age was less than 100 chapters and we’re on 354 now.
Yeah that really sums up the Golden Age in a nutshell lol. And Judeau’s thoughts at the end do include, “I missed my chance to say it,” which fits.
tbh good call with the sword/shield imagery. Like yeah he does literally use himself as a human shield against that one weird apostle, and then Casca leaps up and kills it with her sword. I could def see that being purposeful. Also like… Judeau is Casca’s last real human interaction with someone before she’s driven insane. I’d love to see that acknowledged when she wakes up tbh.
You found the image I was talking about! I already put it on the post itself, but the way he fell off her arm reminds me of how shields are worn on the arm and get dropped when they’re broken!
This chapter was pure badassery on so many levels. I really hate that basically every female character is subjected to assault tho. All of them. (Sadly, I guess it’s not so different from the world we live in.)
On a GriffGuts note, I wonder if the reason Guts focuses so much on casca’s assault is because it drives home for him what Griffith has become. Griffith being his singular focus and all.
Whereas in the last chapter that got released, Casca’s memories encapsulate the whole Eclipse.
Yeah it’s genuinely fantastic, badass and touching and emotional and then it ends… like that
tbh ia. It’s like the way Guts wasn’t angry at Griffith, just sad and regretful, even while all his friends were dying and he was being attacked by a hoard of monsters, up until the rape scene. In a way it makes sense for Guts to focus on that since it’s like, the source of his violent rage that keeps him going and keeps him wanting to kill Griffith/Femto, as opposed to the rest of the Eclipse which is probably more a source of guilt (”was I the one who drove you…?”)
the beast of darkness pretty much suggests that this is why Guts was keeping Casca with him, basically so he could brood. (As did Miura in one interview :/)
Idk I wish it wasn’t so utterly manpain-y, with Guts being so focused on something that didn’t even happen to him, to the detriment of the person it actually did happen to, just so he can stay angry. You’d think his missing arm would be enough of a reminder. But it is what it is, and at least it’s not really portrayed in a positive light I guess.
Ah, you found the scan I was talking about before! Shields are worn or held on the arm! The way he fell off her reminds me so much of someone dropping a shield when it breaks.
oh here’s another one that might actually be a better illustration:
Lol u guys got me wanting playlist links someday XD
lol well I made this jokey griffith one a little while ago, but it hardly counts. maybe I’ll make a more serious playlist at some point, but all my music is on my harddrive instead of idk whatever streaming sites people use these days so it’d just be youtube links.
also i 2nd this i’d also enjoy playlist from @princess-of-peachtrees, or anyone else who likes putting them together for that matter
also since i just re-read this chapter, can I say
i fucking love casca and the way this scene/chapter ends is the most insulting thing I have ever read in my life
Yeah I think his heart was in the right place, it seems like he genuinely just wanted what was best for everyone even if his methods were a little… underhanded and dishonest. Like towards the end eg, he probably thought Griffith would be better off with him and his thieves than with Guts and Casca as well as vice versa (and if Guts and Casca stayed together while taking care of Griffith he might’ve even been right, bc lbr that would’ve been a shitshow lol.) He’s likeable, and fun, and he has some great moments, like telling Guts he’s sure he’ll find what he’s looking for with the Hawks. Ngl his death scene always makes me cry lol, I do def like him overall, in part because he makes mistakes too.
Also I wonder if there isn’t a subtle indication from Miura that Judeau and Casca should’ve gotten together instead of Guts and Casca, and it’s its own little sub-tragedy based on stupid self-esteem issues that they didn’t. The way during the Eclipse Judeau does his best to save her and defends her with his own life while Guts is up on the hand still trying to “save” Griffith lol feels kind of starkly telling. I don’t ship them myself, I like their friendship and I kind of wish Judeau hadn’t had a crush the whole time lol, but it fits into the whole missed opportunity vibe of the Golden Age.
It is kind of a shame that the Golden Age side characters got way less backstory and development than the current RPG group, but the current group has so much more time. Like 200+ chapters vs 70. I did love the little enriching hints we got about the Hawks though, like Judeau feeling inadequate as a jack of all trades, the hints that Corkus is bitter about his own lost dreams. I’d say ‘etc’ but actually that’s about it really. Wish we got more on Pippin too.
Holy moly, what have we even been doing for the last 200+ chapters?? As much as I love the rpg group, nothing beats the original Hawks for me.
I definitely think that the Golden Age was all about people missing what was right in front of them, and losing their chances, or screwing them up on purpose. I mean, it can’t just be Guts and Griffith in this crapsack world that do it.
You mentioned how during the eclipse Guts was focusing of Griffith while Judeau was focused on Casca. Got me thinking about how his final acts were to be a literal shield over her body, and how he fell from her arm as he died. I don’t have the scans, but it reminded me of how Guts and Casca always compare themselves to swords. A sword and shield go mighty well together.
Lmao right? It really puts it into perspective when you realize the Golden Age was less than 100 chapters and we’re on 354 now.
Yeah that really sums up the Golden Age in a nutshell lol. And Judeau’s thoughts at the end do include, “I missed my chance to say it,” which fits.
tbh good call with the sword/shield imagery. Like yeah he does literally use himself as a human shield against that one weird apostle, and then Casca leaps up and kills it with her sword. I could def see that being purposeful. Also like… Judeau is Casca’s last real human interaction with someone before she’s driven insane. I’d love to see that acknowledged when she wakes up tbh.
Ooh yeah this is v post-Eclipse. lol I totally missed the my chemical romance boat so this is new to me but I kinda like it and the lyrics are perfect, ty!
Yeah I think his heart was in the right place, it seems like he genuinely just wanted what was best for everyone even if his methods were a little… underhanded and dishonest. Like towards the end eg, he probably thought Griffith would be better off with him and his thieves than with Guts and Casca as well as vice versa (and if Guts and Casca stayed together while taking care of Griffith he might’ve even been right, bc lbr that would’ve been a shitshow lol.) He’s likeable, and fun, and he has some great moments, like telling Guts he’s sure he’ll find what he’s looking for with the Hawks. Ngl his death scene always makes me cry lol, I do def like him overall, in part because he makes mistakes too.
Also I wonder if there isn’t a subtle indication from Miura that Judeau and Casca should’ve gotten together instead of Guts and Casca, and it’s its own little sub-tragedy based on stupid self-esteem issues that they didn’t. The way during the Eclipse Judeau does his best to save her and defends her with his own life while Guts is up on the hand still trying to “save” Griffith lol feels kind of starkly telling. I don’t ship them myself, I like their friendship and I kind of wish Judeau hadn’t had a crush the whole time lol, but it fits into the whole missed opportunity vibe of the Golden Age.
It is kind of a shame that the Golden Age side characters got way less backstory and development than the current RPG group, but the current group has so much more time. Like 200+ chapters vs 70. I did love the little enriching hints we got about the Hawks though, like Judeau feeling inadequate as a jack of all trades, the hints that Corkus is bitter about his own lost dreams. I’d say ‘etc’ but actually that’s about it really. Wish we got more on Pippin too.
yeah like i don’t wanna discredit that anons opinion but it’s literally just the appearance that is similar, personality wise oscar and griffith are vastly different. they both have an androgynous look, homoerotic/downright almost canonically gay relationships central to their characters, and seem to subvert conventional gender roles (tho oscar does this quite a lot more) but other than that they’re really nothing alike. oscar is objectively a much much much better person than griffith lol
yeah this makes sense. I’d heard that Griffith was based on Oscar from other people too but I didn’t know myself whether that was just character design or like, everything about them. also ty this only makes me want to read rov more lol.
now i can’t stop looking for hands on shoulders but these are devastating ‘cause griffith is tiny
the fact that griffith is accepting guts’ comforting touch thoooooo
like there’s no special attention drawn to these panels or guts’ hand, but considering the emphasis on touches, particularly shoulder touches, i don’t think it’s an accident
same in the dungeon, with more emphasis:
resisting Guts’ comforting hand on his shoulder – his own vulnerability to his feelings for Guts – because Guts abandoned him, that vulnerability is why he’s been tortured for a year
immediately switching to acceptance when Guts expresses his feelings for Griffith in turn
Griffith lets himself love Guts even with all the vulnerability that brings, until he’s lead to believe it’s one sided and he’s about to be abandoned again
it’s because he’s weak and he couldn’t resist it if he tried
idk he couldn’t strangle guts but that didn’t stop him from placing his hand on his throat.
like the panels you posted aren’t exactly spotlighted as meaningful but if we were meant to see that Griffith was uncomfortable in Guts’ arms we’d probably see it in his expression or in some action. the fact that it’s so casual and matter-of-fact and not a moment of discomfort feels telling to me i guess.
ia that if griffith could resist he might (tho he pointedly didn’t resist the shoulder touch in Tombstone of Flame so idk) but if so then i’d say he’s using his own weakness as a convenient excuse to accept Guts’ comfort.
oh i was mostly just trying to be funny and basically saying that when guts gives him the slightest bit of attention griffith becomes unable to resist again because he’s so damn in love
oh lmao, yeah that went over my head. oh well i guess taking things seriously is a good excuse to write another three paragraphs about my griffguts feelings.
im pretty sure miura said griffiths design was inspired by her. so not his actual character, just his appearance. rose of versailles doesn’t seem to have ties with berserk even half as much as devilman, though, and go nagai was listed as a huge inspiration for miura, but either way i guess it’s worth noting that both those works are pretty gay (which i doubt is a coincidence if they inspired berserk lol)
ty for the additional info!
also lol yeah the list of gay shit that inspired Miura is surprisingly (or not so surprisingly lbr) long. he’s also referenced guin saga and kaze to ki no uta as inspirations. and yeah it’s so clear the influence ryokira had on griffguts.
now i can’t stop looking for hands on shoulders but these are devastating ‘cause griffith is tiny
the fact that griffith is accepting guts’ comforting touch thoooooo
like there’s no special attention drawn to these panels or guts’ hand, but considering the emphasis on touches, particularly shoulder touches, i don’t think it’s an accident
same in the dungeon, with more emphasis:
resisting Guts’ comforting hand on his shoulder – his own vulnerability to his feelings for Guts – because Guts abandoned him, that vulnerability is why he’s been tortured for a year
immediately switching to acceptance when Guts expresses his feelings for Griffith in turn
Griffith lets himself love Guts even with all the vulnerability that brings, until he’s lead to believe it’s one sided and he’s about to be abandoned again
it’s because he’s weak and he couldn’t resist it if he tried
idk he couldn’t strangle guts but that didn’t stop him from placing his hand on his throat.
like the panels you posted aren’t exactly spotlighted as meaningful but if we were meant to see that Griffith was uncomfortable in Guts’ arms we’d probably see it in his expression or in some action. the fact that it’s so casual and matter-of-fact and not a moment of discomfort feels telling to me i guess.
ia that if griffith could resist he might (tho he pointedly didn’t resist the shoulder touch in Tombstone of Flame so idk) but if so then i’d say he’s using his own weakness as a convenient excuse to accept Guts’ comfort.
my overanalytical brain that sees meaning everywhere even when it’s a big stretch: patches of light surrounded by darkness for casca and charlotte’s side of the panel, a la isolation, indicating that they are on the outside looking in while guts and griffith (and judeau but who cares) are against the lit wall.
now i can’t stop looking for hands on shoulders but these are devastating ‘cause griffith is tiny
the fact that griffith is accepting guts’ comforting touch thoooooo
like there’s no special attention drawn to these panels or guts’ hand, but considering the emphasis on touches, particularly shoulder touches, i don’t think it’s an accident
same in the dungeon, with more emphasis:
resisting Guts’ comforting hand on his shoulder – his own vulnerability to his feelings for Guts – because Guts abandoned him, that vulnerability is why he’s been tortured for a year
immediately switching to acceptance when Guts expresses his feelings for Griffith in turn
Griffith lets himself love Guts even with all the vulnerability that brings, until he’s lead to believe it’s one sided and he’s about to be abandoned again
lol I honestly can’t speak on this because I haven’t read or seen Rose of Versailles yet, though I plan to soon (it’s open in a tab as we speak lol).
But idk if it’s true that Griffith is directly inspired by/based on Oscar, and that’s not just a common assumption based on similar appearances and Miura being partly inspired by Rose of Versailles in general, then yeesh, I’d probably add that to the long list of reasons the Eclipse rape was bad and offensive writing.
yeah i like the idea of judeau but let’s be real the problem is he should be gay and instead he’s … you know. anyway he’s dead and we have rickert now so yay
het shipper judeau – dead gay denier corkus – dead gay shipper rickert – alive and well
glad to see the gay agenda going strong in berserk
you're the only one 