Tag: ask

top 10 things you want to see happen in the manga?

ooh tough call. do they have to be plausible?

I’m gonna go in order from least to most likely I guess lol.

10. Guts has a sex dream about Griffith, fully canonizing his attraction.

9. Guts and Griffith admit they were and still are in love with each other, at least to themselves, and realize how hard they both fucked up their potential, and die together in mutual regret after a dramatic kiss and stab.

8. Guts kills Isidro in a berserk armour rage. Also like, Magnifico,
mermaid girl, Roderick, and also I’d add Schierke and her elf too. Maybe even Puck just to hammer home the point lol, just like, off half the
rpg group. Mini eclipse starring Guts going past his point of no return. And since this is already v implausible, it leads to an ending where Guts and Griffith do the not-so-different thing and get back together.

7. Guts doesn’t go Beast of Darkness due to Casca – not her dying (god forbid), not her going apostle, not her rejecting him, Casca just doesn’t figure into Guts losing himself to darkness regardless of what she does. Instead, Griffith comes to Elfhelm, and Guts goes Beast of Darkness during some kind of emotional confrontation with him.

6. Guts and Griffith drag each other to hell upon their deaths where they ~become one~ like lbr they’ve always wanted. also as an ironic call-back to their equality thing.

5. Schierke’s guardian spirit elemental beings and the Godhand are connected + aspects of the same shit, good and evil are two sides of the same human coin, and the Idea of Evil is not evil in and of itself, it’s simply fulfilling humanity’s wishes. Yk there’s no good spirit world vs evil spirit world, it’s all the same stuff it just looks good or evil depending on what you’re calling on them for and your perspective, because humanity contains multitudes.

4. The behelit opens, Casca makes a sacrifice, goes apostle, and gets to drive the narrative. Relatedly, there are griffguts parallels between apostle Casca and Farnese. Similarly to Rosine/Jill.

3. Danann, and Skull Knight, are using Guts and Casca in a plot against the Godhand, turn out to be giant dicks and Elfhelm in general becomes an antagonist. Also Moonlight Boy was a manipulation on Danann’s part. (And less plausible but along with that, when Griffith shows up at Elfhelm it’s right at the point where the audience, and Guts, wants to see someone fuck Elfhelm up, cleverly complicating the whole protagonist/antagonist scenario.)

2. Casca kills NGriff, probably while NGriff is having a breakdown after killing Guts.

1. Griffith does something stupid and irrational for Guts’ sake once again.

Bonus 0: the fetus is at least mostly a red herring and had nothing to do with Griffith’s heart beating when he watched Guts fight Zodd.

Quick question what are all the cited inspirations for Berserk?

From what I’ve seen myself in interviews I’ve read, Go Nagai (probably Devilman in particular wrt plot and characters, maybe Violence Jack too which I’ve seen other people cite specifically, and I’d suggest his art style in general), Rose of Versailles, Fist of the North Star, Guin Saga, Kaze to Ki no Uta, 80s Rutger Hauer films (lots of fans figure Ladyhawke in particular tho idk if he ever specified, there are a lot of similarities tho afaik), Disney movies (Puck = Jimminy Cricket lol).

Also I’ve seen ppl mention Pygmalio, Star Wars (which seems p obvious considering the Millenium Falcon shout out), Hellraiser, and Cho Aniki (referenced in the names Adon and Samson according to the dh translator lol. apparently there are a lot of little references like that even beyond like, puck’s obvious jokey refs, most of which i’m sure i’ll never know.)

There’s more on his tv tropes page and most seem legit, but ofc take it with a grain of salt bc it’s tv tropes.

Anyway saying half his inspirations were gay was a humorous exaggeration but there is a p significant chunk of gay and/or griffguts-y material there.

have you ever read kaze to ki no uta? it’s a shounen ai/shoujo manga that miura cited as an inspiration for berserk and the two protags and their relationship are reminescent of griffith and guts (also how hilarious it is that people keep denying the homosexual tones in griffith and guts’ relationship when this is a thing)

I read like the first few chapters before the site i was using fucked up and i didn’t go back to it, but mb i should. i’ve heard it’s only partially translated or smthn, which is why i just gave up, tho i could be wrong about that or it could be outdated info.

anyway yeah i can definitely see how it may have partly inspired berserk. i didn’t see enough of the protags’ relationship to really judge similarities there (though wouldn’t surprise me at all if there are some), but the whole concept of csa trauma influencing your life and fucking up your relationships is a p big thing in Berserk, and it seems like the main point of ktknu.

and lol i swear like half the stuff miura cites as an influence is textually gay. just one more reason i can’t believe the homoerotic overtones aren’t deliberate.

About the first deul between Guts and Griffith; I think it’s kind of funny how whatever cool moves they did during that fight we never really see again (eg. Guts biting the sword, Griffith standing on top of the sword, the wrestling). In other words, that deul couldn’t have been just a demonstration of the two’s swordsman skills so the innuendos behind the fight were totally relevant.

legit. even innuendos aside, the uniqueness of the fight is a good reflection of the uniqueness of yk the circumstances, the relationship, it’s such a gr8 scene in general. and i do love those innuendos.

I’ve heard there are some similarities between Berserk and Captive prince. Can you tell me the similarities-you see in the book

bthump:

I only just started reading it so not yet, but sure when I finish the first one I’ll make a post and tag it anonymous for you. might not be for a while, I don’t read every day lol.

Tho I can say that so far the only similarity seems to be blond/brunet gay + political scheming in a made up historical kingdom lol, but again, I’m only a couple chapters in.

ok i finished captive prince so now I can answer this. sorry it took a while lol, I read v intermittently

(fairly unspoilery) verdict:

I
feel like Captive Prince is what you get if you read the manga or watch
the anime, completely adore Griffith, but wish that instead of being a
dark tragic horror story Berserk was all about gay fantasy-historical
politics.

And as someone who has absolutely read the manga, adored
Griffith, and wished that Berserk was all about gay fantasy-historical
politics, I really enjoyed Captive Prince lol.

Laurent is… pretty
close to Griffith imo. To the point where I predicted a few plot
points by thinking What Would Griffith Do. He’s Griffith in a very
different setting under very different circumstances, but like, if you
told me Captive Prince was a story about AU Griffith who grew up in a
much different environment, I’d be like, yeah the author gets him. Same sort of image that hides his actual feelings, denying his weaknesses, eventually only dropping the mask around his love interest, v manipulative + clever, cute childlike moments, multi-talented, that kinda thing lol.

Ofc the
author was inspired by multiple characters, and I’m sure a lot of
similarities I saw are just like, inevitable when you want to make an
ambitious dude who wants to run a kingdom sympathetic, but yk. It’s not exactly serial numbers filed off Berserk fanfic but it was
fun to read and compare them and catch a lot of similarities.

Damen
is, however, absolutely not Guts. They got a similar berserker fighting
style, and maybe a similarly simplistic + straightforward way of viewing the world, but otherwise, nah. Very different characters imo.

And
Damen/Laurent is not griffguts at all. There’s virtually nothing
griffguts-y about them imo. Part of the point of the story is to examine
Laurent as a character thru the eyes of someone who hates him, ie Damen
the pov character, so there’s a lot of really fun (and sad) dramatic
irony and I always love the unreliable narrator/close third person pov,
so it was gr8 and worked very well, but yk. No love at first sight. No
mutual pining, except maybe v subtly between the lines. It’s extreme
slow burn. Very much a solid two people slooooowly falling in love
story, enemies to lovers kind of thing. More realistic and down to earth
where griffguts is very larger than life and wildly intense.

The
funny thing is that while reading Captive Prince and comparing it to
Berserk, bc I was kind of primed to do so by conversations w/ you guys
lol, one difference kind of popped out at me: despite Captive Prince
being the textual gay love story, Berserk is… I don’t want to say
gayer, bc it’s obviously not, but it’s more focused on a relationship
between two dudes lol.

Like Captive Prince isn’t really about the
love story. It’s about Laurent vs The Villain. The love story
complements the plot very nicely and at the climax it plays an important
role, but the real plot of the story is a fucked up political chess
match between Laurent and the Regent as they vy for the throne. The love
story is complementary, it’s not incidental or minor, but it’s also not
the A plot. It’s a very solid B plot.

Whereas in Berserk,
Griffith and Guts’ relationship is the A plot. Captive Prince is a story
about political scheming featuring a great romance. Berserk is a story
about two dudes and their trainwreck of a relationship.

And
idk it was just kind of funny that while reading Captive Prince and
comparing it to Berserk that was my main takeaway. It kind of put into
sharp relief how thoroughly Berserk revolves around Griffith and Guts’
relationship, by demonstrating a very solid very good gay love story
that didn’t revolve around Damen and Laurent’s relationship lol.

Which
is not to downplay the romance, it’s a huge focus and extremely
satisfying imo. I’m just commenting on how like, Laurent and Damen are
largely motivated and driven by other things in their lives lol, the
things that drive the plot, rather than each other.

Anyway yeah
Captive Prince was p good, + if you like Berserk for the same reasons I like
it there are elements that will probably appeal (political scheming, sad backstory stuff, a lot of Laurent’s existence in general, dude who cares about people a lot more than he lets on, clever battle tactics, big buff brunet/thin nerdy but surprisingly skilled blond, etc) but it’s ultimately a v different story.

The duel between Guts and Griffith before Griffith slept with Charlotte made me think that if Griffith succeeded killing him that it would trigger the behelit at the spot.

I could see it, or at least I could see him feeling behelit-worthy despair. logistically killing the best sacrifice and being far away from the rest of the hawks might stymie that but emotionally yk, it’s solid.

tho tbh I think that a Griffith who killed Guts during the duel would be a really interesting character if he just like, kept going afterwards. Like I could see that being an action that fundamentally changes him similarly to the Eclipse but yk, in a mundane, realistic way. He wouldn’t turn into a monster, but he would stop wondering if he’s cruel and start fully thinking of himself as a monster. He wouldn’t become malicious but he would become extremely ruthless, cold, and pragmatic. No more friendly socializing with the Hawks, unless he has to to maintain loyalty. And it would take his plans from kingdom to empire, like he’d start a new war at the first opportunity.

like basically neogriffith I guess lol. and this is ofc assuming he doesn’t immediately do something stupid and get himself killed. also he’d probably be adjacent to an epic emotional breakdown at all times, and when it finally happens he’ll take his whole kingdom down with him.

Like yk if the sacrifice represents an action with permanent consequences that fundamentally changes you, this could be the literal version of that fantasy metaphor.

sorry lol I p much just took this ask and ran with it.

I must say that 70% of the fandom of Nana and Beserk in terms of “relationships” are very similar, because they refuse to accept that the main relationship and the engine of the series has much subtext homo of both N and H as with G and Gu the irony is that possibly these two have the best subtext in terms of yaoi and yuri respectively is one of the few times that can be said that is soulmates connection works as friends,lovers or platonic relationship without mentioning the tragic of both cases

When it comes to Nana I’ve only seen the first live action movie iirc, but yeah I shipped tf out of them and was immensely disappointed when I learned it wasn’t canon and there’s a lot of het romance lol. So this seems legit.

modern au guts likes kissing griffiths hands and fingers but especially his wedding band… he admires how it looks on griffs hand from afar all the time lmao

yesss totally. modern au griffguts would be a ridiculous married couple. they’d look at their rings constantly and carry pictures of each other around and introduce each other to like strangers in the line at the grocery store as “my husband.” and not just during the honeymoon phase.

(also guts being into griffith’s hands in general is good. like speaking of masculine aspects of griffith he could be into in regular non au berserk, strong hands/callouses from sword fighting maybe? like yeah he has small hands but swinging a sword still takes a toll)

When do you think berserk will end? In 5 years? 10? 50? 100?

I anticipate a thousand years on the boat on the trip back from Eflhelm.

lol but honestly idk, I feel like w/ Casca waking up and Falconia’s existence we’re moving into endgame, but the question is whether endgame is gonna be 2 volumes long or like, a third of the story. I could at least see it being over in 5 years or less, depending on hiatuses, but if I was betting I’d probably say 10 to be on the safe side lol.

Do you agree more with griffith’s “the end justifies the means” philosophy or with guts’ individualistic philosophy?

Sorry this took a while, I was way overthinking it at first lol and then I was busy yesterday.

But like, I’m figuring you’re basically referring to like, Griffith’s narrative raising the “Is it worth sacrificing your friends/filling the world with monsters to create a just society” question vs Guts’ narrative, especially circa the conviction arc, being more like, fuck whether other people are able to live in peace, everyone should be strong enough to survive an unjust world and if they’re not that’s their problem.

And I mean if we’re just talking moral philosophies behind those narratives then yeah I’m with Griffith, often it is worth doing some bad things for a greater good, sometimes the end does justify the means, and I’d rather work to create a society where the strong don’t prey on the weak than just try to make myself strong enough to avoid being preyed on.

In the example given specifically idk that I’d agree with filling the world w/ fantasy nightmares to make a chunk of it utopian lmao, but yk, Berserk likes to go to extremes.

how do you imagine guts and griffith’s first kiss and first time in current canon?

So, current canon as in post-Eclipse, Guts and NeoGriffith?

Honestly it’s hard to imagine in a believable in-character way. I’d say the best bet here is Guts going Beast of Darkness and NeoGriffith confronting him alone and enticing him to fuck him instead of fight him. I don’t think it would take much convincing to get Guts’ Beast of Darkness brain to switch gears that way lol.

Tho first kiss feels way more difficult to make work. Maybe if Guts snaps out of it in the heat of the moment, and just ends up clinging to Griffith and maybe kissing him desperately before remembering everything?

Idk I can see Guts/NeoGriffith working as more than one fucked up desperate encounter before one kills the other only if like… Guts has also gone full monster for a while and murdered his rpg group or w/e, and no longer feels worthy of hatred/revenge/judgment of Griffith’s own inner darkness. And ofc this is assuming NGriff has come to accept that he is not, in fact, over Guts lol.

Maybe also with a side of differentiating NGriff from Femto, the same way Guts is differentiated from the beast of darkness, despite the beast being a part of him. Two dudes who have magical inner monsters as power up forms, like sure, that works for me.

So maybe they get back together after all, both having been saints and demons, and then they can make out properly.

Have you checked out G/oblin S/layer? I’ve seen it in the berserk tag so I checked some pics online and imo it seems to me like gratuitous violence and the male power fantasy. Frankly, I’m hesitant to watch it

i’ve vaguely heard about it but only in that it’s about a dude who kills goblins which are basically rape monsters.

and now i’ve read the wikipedia entry and nothing i’ve seen makes it sound any better than that so i’ve got no plans to read or watch it lol. def agree that it just sounds like a male power fantasy

i can see how it might be similar to like, the worst aspects of berserk tho

Now you’ve made me want to read The Flame Dragon Knight novel, I need to know how much Grunbeld and this Edward guy are similar to Guts and Griffith

This is how I feel. It’s getting released in English like… eventually at least. Next spring iirc?

Idk I’ve heard lots of bits and pieces about it (largely from @morgiah who has read many excerpts I think, correct me if I’m wrong) and it sounds like it contains a lot of what I enjoyed about Golden Age Berserk ngl.

also relatedly

@morgiah said:

their family situations are also similar in many ways.. oof

edward is a pastiche of many ppl ok. even canonically locus is his hero and inspiration so he’d want to be like him, at least

iiinteresting tbh. I wonder if Locus at first reminds Grunbeld of Edward then, if he’d known about him previously just in the context of Edward admiring him.

You claim to have completed the threesome series but I’m afraid you missed the most important concept. That is the HC of Guts/Griffith/Apostle threesome and the Griffith/Guts/Serpico threesome existing AT THE SAME TIME. Applying the 1st Law of Threesomes of running into your ex, who would be the one to walk in on who? After applying the 2nd Law of Threesomes that GG will end exclusive will Serpico and the Apostles be friends(those kind of friends). Or will Berserk end with the world ending

As the paradox developing from applying the 1st Law of Threesomes would cause a tear in space and time, creating a blackhole?

lmao

yk I could tilt my head and see Serpico/Irvine (tho there might be too much apathy there, neither would call the other and they’d just bone on occasion after running into each other), Serpico/Grunbeld (Serpico seems kind of into fairly honourable knight types and I bet Serpico looks kind of like Edward, Grunebeld’s Berserk-esque ex. Doubt they have similar personalities tho), and Serpico/Locus (that knight archetype, tho idk there might be too much weird loyalty to others there lol).

Not Serpico/Raksas or Serpico/Zodd tho.

I think the odds are better that the world will end tho. I mean it’s Berserk, if anything’s going to destroy that world it’s going to be a time paradox caused by a weird convoluted sexual scenario.

Also if one threesome somehow walked in on another, that would mean there are doubles involved. Which I’m pretty sure would just end with Griffith/Guts/Griffith/Guts and Serpico and the apostles watching the show.

(griffith hate anon) yeah the post said griffith is a misogynist bc his promrose hall speech is masculine in language, eg “a man must come upon another precious thing (…) to accomplish it for him, for himself”, “to me a friend (…) would determine and pursue his own reason to live” etc. which apparently means he thinks women can’t have dreams just duties and they can’t be his friend/equal lmfao (this is dumb as it is to me but also iirc in the jap/og version he uses gender neutral terms??)

chaoticgaygriffith:

bthump:

Ohhh right.

Huh now I’m actually curious if that speech is gender neutral in Japanese, because honestly the focus on men in that speech did seem like… pretty typical of Berserk in general lol. Like Miura really elevates same-gender relationships over opposite-sex relationships which are almost always romantic by default, and generally treated as lesser, or as stepping stones to that most important relationship (eg nina leaving with a dude so she can one day feel worthy of being luca’s friend) and the speech fits that pattern perfectly, so I always assumed it was deliberately gendered – not so much as a reflection on Griffith (tho again in the context of being repressed but desiring that all-important relationship with a man specifically… I’m still okay with it) but bc of Miura’s own biases.

But it’d be nice if it was actually gender neutral bc the focus on men men men, especially that first “but for a man he must first come upon one other precious thing” or w/e the line was, was pretty annoying.

sorry to bring bad news but that convo was anything but gender neutral. like, griffith started it by mentioning that charlotte asked him why /men/ love spilling blood so much so the men vs women divide was there from start to finish

actually the official translation was completely consistent with the original in terms of levels of gendering:

(男, otoko, officially translated as “man/men”)

(者, mono, officially translated as “one”)

(人, hito, officially translated as “people” and then 男, otoko, “man/men” again)

and then griffith ends the conversation like “sorry that must have been a boring topic for a lady (女性, josei)”

so like yeah japanese is a mostly gender neutral language in that its verbs and adjectives are not inflected by gender etc. but that doesn’t mean that all japanese conversations are completely gender neutral. far from it actually

Thank you! Yeah like I said, the way this convo is gendered fits the story to me and imo still reflects more on Miura than Griffith, but like, it doesn’t not fit Griffith imo. It still serves my interpretation of him so I’m cool w/ this.

Also yeah very good point about the abbreviation, ty for mentioning it. JP is definitely preferable if you’re going to shorten the word “japanese,” even if it’s just intended as shorthand and not a slur.

do you have any griffguts hcs to share (both sfw and nsfw)? pls and thx

Sure! I mean, when it comes to headcanons none of these are hard and fast, I’m pretty changeable depending on circumstances and can roll with a lot of stuff in fic, eg. But here’s some ideas I tend to default to. Mild warning for one hc involving rape fantasies btw.

If Guts hadn’t overheard the Promrose Hall speech, they would’ve gotten together in Tombstone of Flame Part 2. Griffith being vulnerable and worried about Guts’ opinion of him as filthy and/or cruel = Guts kissing him. Dreams got in the way and ruined it.

Guts and Griffith would be extremely touchy feely in a relationship. Super cuddly, it would take constant effort to keep their hands off each other in public. They practically crave physical contact with each other, they’re magnetized.

Griffith is very into Guts’ physical strength and loves being manhandled by him. He’d be super into Guts holding him and fucking him against a wall, eg.

Guts has got a serious Thing for Griffith’s hair. He has a tendency to bury his face in it if he’s holding Griffith from behind, or smell it if he happens to be leaning in, or tuck it behind his ear for him on a windy day, etc.

They both have strong feelings about being protected by the other. Griffith saving Guts from Zodd, Guts planting himself between the bulk of Gennon’s army and Griffith (or later on, Guts killing the torturer and rampaging thru Midland), that kind of thing. Being able to trust the other to defend him is huge for them, and fulfills an emotional need neither really knew existed until it was filled.

Guts’ favourite part of having sex with Griffith would be making him lose his control over himself, knowing he’s the only one who can do that to Griffith, and the only one Griffith will allow to see him lose control.

Griffith has occasional rape/ravishment/kidnapping fantasies in which Guts is an enemy who defeats him in a fight and basically keeps him as a sex slave. The elements that appeal to him on a deep emotional level that he’s not entirely aware of is having his dream being forcibly taken away, having no power to attain it anymore and therefore no more responsibility to the dead. Like, being forced to live a simple, goal-less life where all that matters is Guts, without the self-betrayal of choosing it. He doesn’t think about these b8 fantasies on any deeper level than cliche sex scenario tho lol.

Relatedly, deep deep down I think Griffith hates his dream. It’s a trap of guilt and responsibility and power, and Guts was a potential escape from it/could still be at least emotionally in an AU where they’re together.  Like Eggman’s speech about torches illuminating your disgustingly cruel self and hating those torches even while you can’t bring yourself to let go of them. Egg was talking about relationships, but in Griffith’s case it describes his relationship to his dream to a tee regardless of whatever Miura’s intent might’ve been. Basically Guts is a healthier alternative to the dream emotionally. Sorry I’m kinda digressing into meta here lmao. Back to headcanons.

Guts might initially frame his attraction to Griffith as an attraction to his androgyny, and he’d have to more slowly come to terms with accepting that he likes Griffith’s masculinity too.

He also similarly might hold Griffith separate from men in general because he thinks of him as just on another level. In a way this is handy bc it means Guts might find it easier to accept the idea of sex with Griffith without relating it to his csa trauma, at least not immediately drawing the association, bc Griffith is just in a special category of his own to him. Yk, it’s not ~sex with a man~, it’s sex with Griffith. But it’s also kind of pedestalizing him, and it’s something Guts will eventually have to overcome. Seeing Griffith as vulnerable and human would help that along.

Some of their best sex would actually be quick rough encounters, a while into their relationship when they’re pretty comfortable, when Guts allows himself to lose control a bit and express his desire through sort of base and needy fucking. No foreplay or build up, just a sense of desperate need between them. Appeals to both Griffith wanting Guts to want him and Guts wanting Griffith’s focus on him.

Guts has probably had some wet dreams in which sparring/wrestling with Griffith turns into grinding lol.

post-Eclipse, Guts absolutely has semi-regular sex dreams about Griffith. I’m pretty sure that’s legit implied by the text. Some are dark and involve Femto or NeoGriffith, some are wistful and take place in the past in a what-could-have-been kinda way, and Guts has crysturbated while remembering some of the latter.

Ok I’ll just stop there, this ended up getting longer than I thought it would lol. Guess I’ve gotten more used to talking about headcanons, which is kind of nice, I used to have a really hard time thinking of stuff like this. Then again a lot of this is cribbed from other conversations and some things I’ve maybe mentioned before lol so that helps too.

Anyway jsyk I also have a tag here for headcanons which is getting pretty long and has some good discussions w/ other people that you might enjoy. ty for the ask!

(griffith hate anon) yeah the post said griffith is a misogynist bc his promrose hall speech is masculine in language, eg “a man must come upon another precious thing (…) to accomplish it for him, for himself”, “to me a friend (…) would determine and pursue his own reason to live” etc. which apparently means he thinks women can’t have dreams just duties and they can’t be his friend/equal lmfao (this is dumb as it is to me but also iirc in the jap/og version he uses gender neutral terms??)

Ohhh right.

Huh now I’m actually curious if that speech is gender neutral in Japanese, because honestly the focus on men in that speech did seem like… pretty typical of Berserk in general lol. Like Miura really elevates same-gender relationships over opposite-sex relationships which are almost always romantic by default, and generally treated as lesser, or as stepping stones to that most important relationship (eg nina leaving with a dude so she can one day feel worthy of being luca’s friend) and the speech fits that pattern perfectly, so I always assumed it was deliberately gendered – not so much as a reflection on Griffith (tho again in the context of being repressed but desiring that all-important relationship with a man specifically… I’m still okay with it) but bc of Miura’s own biases.

But it’d be nice if it was actually gender neutral bc the focus on men men men, especially that first “but for a man he must first come upon one other precious thing” or w/e the line was, was pretty annoying.

Anon who sent me the Griffith-hate ask, I accidentally deleted your second message while trying to delete a different one lol, sorry about that. Once again I hope you see this and sorry about the lack of notif again.

But basically what I wanted to say is that yeah sure that “warming a man is a woman’s duty” bit is misogynist (and I think you mentioned the Promrose Hall speech too? as another example the person you’re hatereading gave?), but yk, so is Judeau’s “she’s our woman and we want her back” statement while rescuing Casca, so is 90% of everything Guts says to her ever, and so is 90% of the narrative voice honestly.

Idk man this is another instance where I’d say if they’re going to judge other fans for liking something w/ offensive elements, they should probably just put down Berserk and find something else to enjoy.

One thing I noticed that highlights the difference between the two sides of the Berserk fandom: one side loves Judeau for pushing Guts and Casca together and hates Corkus for being “mean” to Guts; the other is more critical of Judeau’s manipulative ways and often bad advice (especially of him deciding what’s best for Casca on her behalf), and appreciates Corkus for being a pretty well-written secondary character who dished some hard truths. Just an observation.

I’m not really familiar enough w/ fandom in general to agree or disagree lol but I could believe this as a broad trend. I mean like tbf there are good reasons to dislike Corkus, he’s definitely a shithead and the jokey homophobia bugs me and is unnecessary. But Judeau is also a shithead in many ways like you describe, and imo overall they’re both good side characters who both make good and bad points at different times. And I’d say sometimes Corkus is absolutely right.

So I guess I kind of fit into this observation at least lol.

what do you think of griffith smiling when he hears julius and adonis are dead? i see lots of ppl use it as proof that he was ~evil~ all along

Fucking love that moment lol.

image

glorious.

Like, this is a moment of Griffith’s inner darkness shining through. It’s perfect because it comes right after his long dream speech to Charlotte, as he’s learning that he’s achieved a particularly horrible step on the path to his dream. His dream just caused an innocent kid to be killed, and he’s smiling about it.

It’s a very strong way to equate dreams to darkness early on – and it’s great foreshadowing for Guts’ own descent too. This speech that ends with Griffith smiling over the death of a child – that causes that smile – is the very thing that inspires Guts to leave to pursue his own dream! Which ends up being the Black Swordsman arc.

image

Like compare Griffith’s evil smile to Black Swordsman Guts’ slasher smiles as he’s, yk, fighting “stronger and stronger opponents,” ie pursuing his own dream. Dreams are terrible all around for everyone and I love it.

This is also part of Griffith’s set up that’s very soon knocked down in a subversion of the reader’s expectations. Like I’ve talked about how Griffith’s narrative begins with an image and eventually peels that away to the truth – we start with Femto, then we get early larger-than-life knight in shining armour Griffith who would do anything for his dream, here w/ the assassination we get the darker aspects of that emphasized, and then only five chapters later we get our first full pull-back of the curtain style reveal of the real Griffith, in Casca’s flashback.

Compare Griffith smiling when a child dies on the path to his dream up there to:

image

and

image
image

It’s Griffith burying his guilt – getting much better at burying it through consistent practice lol – and demonstrating his willingness to do so in order to achieve his dream, which, ironically, he’s pursuing because of that guilt. It’s perfect.

I think I’ve phrased it before as like, after learning about Griffith’s dead child related guilt issues in Casca’s flashback shortly after, that smile when he finds out Adonis is dead can only mean one of two things:

either in the intervening years he’s changed so fundamentally that he no longer has those guilt issues, and therefore Casca’s flashback chapters are functionally meaningless and unnecessary to an almost comedic extent.

or it means he’s successfully buried his guilt so thoroughly in this moment as he’s pontificating to Charlotte about his dream that his reaction is pleased – he’s kind of like, becoming the mask, doing that good a job of convincing himself it’s all necessary for the sake of his dream.

And we see Griffith’s guilt issues crop up again in Tombstone of Flame
and again when Ubik’s convincing him to make the sacrifice, soooo we
know it’s not option one lol.

idk it’s a great example of the fucked up duality that comes from living in denial and eventually leads to choosing to become a monster because you already see yourself as one, basically, and it’s something I absolutely love about Griffith’s character.

tl;dr griffith isn’t evil, he’s interesting.

the end of this post also gets into my take on this scene, and it’s probably better said there lol.

also this post kind of illuminates more of my thinking wrt dark sides in berserk

do griffguts give each other like massages or back/shoulder rubs or the like? i think griffith loves rubbing guts big meaty shoulders especially and griffith turns into like a big puddle when guts gives him a back rub

Absolutely cosigning this. Also I wanna say that Guts is surprisingly good at giving massages. He thinks he’ll suck at it and initially protests when Griffith first crawls under his hands like a cat after a long day of fighting or w/e, but turns out he’s got a knack.

this is under a cut because i have an instinctive need to bury all mentions of rl politics. plus it’s discoursey and just generally kind of pointless lol. sorry anon that you won’t get a notification that this has been answered, but hopefully you’ll see it.

image

lol
god see this is why I avoid most of fandom. i’m gonna respond to these even tho i’m preaching to the choir bc you’ve awoken my argumentative side.

The canon age difference
between Griffith and Charlotte is about one year. Griffith’s around 18, Charlotte is 17. Even if you go by the
ova guidebook which ages Griffith up to 21, it blows my mind to say that makes liking Griffith problematic while calling yourself a fan of Miura or Berserk,
considering there’s like, fanservice featuring Schierke later on. I mean man, drop the story entirely or don’t pretend you’re on a higher horse, one or the other.

Berserk
as a setting has completely normalized child soldiers so lol @ singling
out Griffith when he’s largely motivated specifically by not wanting
children to be exploited. Especially when we got a dude who makes a
habit of using children as hostages as a protagonist.

no idea
where they would’ve gotten genocide from, other than fandom’s absolute
love of diluting terms used to refer to devastating real life concepts and events into utter
meaninglessness. like I can only assume they don’t know what the word
genocide means. Or they’re considering either the Hawks or… witches, I
guess, to be a race of people? In which case Guts is also a genocidal
maniac for his war declaration against all apostles/demons/etc.

fascist seems
to be a result of a complete inability to reconcile the fact that
Griffith is explicitly the most politically progressive and generally
social justice-concerned person in canon with the fact that he turned
into an evil demon. that would be something to
criticize berserk/miura for if we’re gonna get into political analysis of the story. but
like, it’s just a canon fact that falconia is pointedly socially and
politically progressive lol, that’s literally its raison d’etre. there’s
nothing fascist about it, and it’s positioned as a contrast/answer to the
authoritarianism of the inquisition.

In a sense you could say it’s the ultimate democracy lol because Falconia was literally brought into existence and essentially given to Griffith by the magically augmented collective will of humanity.

white imperialist is plain
and simple giving Miura a ridiculous amount of credit for something he’s
not doing, or if he is doing, is doing extremely offensively.

Like
to be absolutely fair I guess one can argue that thru convenience of
magic Falconia is an imperialist power by default despite not expanding
thru invasion but thru taking in refugees, because it’s the only place
to live safely and the white-centric fantasy-christian holy see does
seem to have the most power there, compared to I guess the kushans who
are our only example of a non-white culture. But I mean look at how Miura portrayed that culture as an antagonistic force – yk, the scary demon emperor and his
unstoppable demon army (created thru the rape of imprisoned women) from
super stereotypical fantasy India.

He’s nuanced enough to show that Kushans aren’t a monolith, but he really went all out to establish Ganeshka and his army as the villains in this conflict, in some pretty racist ways.

And if they’re taking it as read that Miura is purposefully setting up Falconia as a fantasy parallel to white imperialism, that would make the story positioning Falconia/Fantasia as the utopia and Griffith as the saviour that “humanity” as a whole desires, and essentially willed into being, really fucked up. Also relatedly, the fact that Griffith destroying Ganeshka like, saved the world bc Ganeshka had transformed into a world-destroying monster.

It’s also worth addressing Miura’s choice to make a Kushan general the biggest advocate
of Falconia (Jarif). Or
his choice to portray Falconia as explicitly anti-racist and
multicultural, while not like, showing us any actually non-racist
alternative. Like, the alternative presented (thru Guts’ individualistic
“struggler” narrative) seems to be “fend for yourself in a shitty world
where the privileged exploit the vulnerable instead of trying to fix these
issues of power and exploitation on a cultural level.“ That seems like a message worth criticizing.

Like somewhere in this muddle Miura’s probably going for a critique of
catholicism/monotheism in general on Griffith’s side of the narrative, but if his intention is to make a
statement on how that intersects with white imperialism, he’s failed in
some p damn big ways lol. You can’t just say Griffith is a white imperialist without like, examining the actual story and its portrayal of Falconia.

Idk man I just can’t fathom
calling yourself a fan of Berserk while suggesting it’s problematic to
be a fan of Griffith in particular. Like my god, have you read this
manga? I’m genuinely more comfortable calling myself a Griffith fan than
a Berserk fan lol.

But I mean lbr people who say this kind of shit don’t actually consider the offensive implications or what these assertions suggest about the messages of the story itself, they’re just grasping for weapons to use against fans they don’t like.

Judeau seemed to notice that Griffith had a dark side.

yeah true. I’m not sure if this is a response to something I’ve said or just a statement you’re throwing out there lol, but yeah. Judeau suspected that Griffith (and quite likely Guts) assassinated the Queen

image

He had a reaction to Griffith reaching up to strangle Guts here

image

and from the beginning he was basically calling Griffith morally ambiguous while everyone else seemed to see him as pure hero:

image

though that last one is probably more narrative convenience than nuance of Judeaus’ characterization, he’s got some real authorial voice going on here. But this line fits Judeau more than it would any of the other Hawks.

So in general yeah he does seem less idealistic and more aware of the practical side of how a peasant would go about rising to the throne, and maybe more observant and able to see the less idealized sides of Griffith than most other people.

Re: casca’s outfit. Lol i didn’t even notice those fanservice-y bits…miura why. Another small thing that bothers me is how he draws boobs/nipples. Bc apparently all women have gravity defying boobs and small perpetually hard metal plates like nipples. And men just don’t have nipples. Like having to look at casca’s hard racistly bright nipples in the bg while guts has a breakdown over his childhood trauma is so jarring

lol yeah strong agree.

like you can and should criticize how casca is objectified and drawn in a very sexualized way in moments that should not be sexy because it’s offensive in misogynist and racist ways, but you can also criticize it because it’s like, bad writing/bad art. it’s tonally awkward.

This is a bit nitpicky i guess but does it bother you too how cutesy is casca’s mercenary outfit (thigh boots, sword with a heart hilt, short mantle, pink shirts in the 97 anime)? Like considering how he deals with her feminine side particularly in regards to appareances it makes me go “mmmh”

yeah a bit lol, the heart hilt especially kind of bothers me. like where did she get that and why? was it custom made? would casca really want a sword with decorative hearts on it? (I could headcanon my own explanation, like maybe she stole it off a nobleman who kept it basically for decoration rather than actually using it, back when the Hawks were thieves. But yk I’m not giving Miura credit for that.)

tbh in general I find it kind of hard to criticize her golden age outfit in the context of like, 90% of fantasy female warriors’ outfits lol, bc in all fairness it’s p realistic and practical comparatively. her breastplate doesn’t have sculpted boobs, her boots don’t have heels any more than the dudes’ do (and to be fair I feel like i’ve heard that the thigh highs were an actual practical riding thing – tho ofc none of the dudes wear them, soooo enh), she doesn’t have half her chest exposed for the sake of cleavage (except of course for the many, many pages where her clothes are torn lol), and she like, wears pants.

but on the other hand it’s sad the bar is that low because lbr Casca wearing decent clothes doesn’t prevent Miura from drawing her ridiculously for the sake of fanservice anyway

image

like no it’s not technically an upskirt shot, but damn it’s hard to tell the difference with that long skirt-looking tunic and ultra tight pants. kind of unfortunately undermines the power angle imo.

and her pants get even tighter after she has sex with guts ime, there are a few panels like this one later on:

image

so yeah, i guess like, it is kind of nitpicky, but it’s the kind of nitpicky i agree with lol. I mean I wouldn’t write a big long post to criticize Casca’s outfit bc for the most part it’s much better than i’d expect, but it’s def not perfect.

i am absolutely living for your hcs, do you have any thoughts on guts/serpico/griffith? the difference here is that griffith is the one that walks in on them instead of the other way around

ty!

griffith rehearsing his “join me in my utopian world plz I’m really over being enemies and I miss you” speech on the way to Elfhelm to confront Guts, walks into Guts’ tree house guest room mid-fuck, aaaaaand… I can’t make this end in a threesome lol.

w/ neogriffith as instigator you get that sexy hedonistic monsterfucking atmosphere to help things along, plus Guts potentially having already gotten to “fuck it I have nothing to lose” mode. here I’m p sure this would either lead to someone getting killed, or maybe another, angsty, bitter conversation that comprises the most awkward few minutes of Serpico’s already exceptionally awkward life.

like, Serpico sees him in the doorway, is like, wow finally met someone really hot on Skellig, hey Guts we’ve got a guest let’s invite him in wink wink. Guts turns to look and is like, “Griffith?!” and Serpico’s like, oh of course it’s the fated nemesis destroyer of worlds guy, idk what else I expected after getting involved with Guts.

(tho i don’t think NGriff is really Serpico’s type, but he’s pretty objectively hot and he’s definitely Guts’ type so I still say Serpico’s brain could immediately leap to threesome potential.)

ON THE OTHER HAND what if this was a golden age AU?

Serpico comes to Midland with Farnese and the Holy Iron Chain Knights, maybe in an attempt to unite kingdoms under the holy see to fight ganeshka’s giant army beginning to move west or whatever. Guts is still there because he hasn’t overheard the Promrose Hall speech, but he and Griffith aren’t fucking yet.

Serpico and Guts instantly dislike each other but lbr they’re both each others’ type and they both respect each others’ abilities too once they get to know each other more, and they end up working together quite a bit because Guts is nobility now and a high ranking captain in Midland’s royal army, so they get a sort of mild rivals -> lovers relationship arc.

Then Griffith walks in on them.

So Guts and Griffith still have an intense borderline romantic relationship full of barely repressed mutual pining, Guts getting together with Serpico has maybe been his wake-up call that he would also want more with Griffith, but at the same time he wouldn’t want to ruin their friendship lol and Griffith has his political het marriage so he’s kind of unattainable so he’s happy with Serpico. And now Griffith has to suddenly confront the fact that he wants to be in Serpico’s place.

So Griffith turns around to flee the immediate awkwardness and his own feelings, and Guts is like, shit better follow him and make sure he’s not freaked out by the fact that we’re hooking up, and… one thing leads to another, they end up making out against a wall, Guts wakes up after a few minutes and is like, damn I just abandoned Serpico mid-sex, I’d better go apologize, and Griffith is like, I’ll come with you.

But uh, more sensual and sexy and emotionally intimate. During sex Serpico realizes emphatically that he’s the third wheel but his apathy makes it easy for him to shrug and move on with only a little melancholy disappointment.

sorry lol, literally all of these are going to end in exclusive griffguts because I just can’t ot3 them. Serpico will find a good handsome soldier bf who prioritizes him afterwards tho.