more thoughts on sweet/light bdsm griffguts… hard agree with nev thatd griffith would like being blindfolded too especially the sensory deprivation and also like guts covering up his eyes which are his thing and remained unblemished even after being tortured for a year wow the symbolism. also i think a lot of their sessions would be spent doing more non sexual things before eventually building up to sex, especially if griffith is really wound up. guts still tells him what to do-

and holds some sort of power or control over him. like i could see guts
blindfolding him and making him rest his head on guts thigh and be very
still and not squirm to like “cool down” from whatever funk he was in
while guts strokes his hair and massages his scalp. when he ties his
arms behind his back he spends a lot of time kissing griffs neck and
relishing in the little hitched intakes of breath griffith takes bc hes
still blindfolded and doesnt know where guts is gonna touch him next.
yea.

Yk I was kind of wondering about things like little inconsequential but easy to follow orders (like hold still, or say keeping his hands behind his back, or smthn), and I couldn’t decide whether it would work or not, I think you could go either way. Like on the one hand Griffith is very tightly wound and self-controlled and I feel like being able to lose control and react in a more animalistic way would really suit him, esp Guts seeing him like that and loving it, but then I could also see exerting self-control in situations that don’t matter would like, feel reassuring in a way? Idk I probably prefer the former but the latter is also appealing in its own way.

But also yessss to the blindfold thing. Idek why but the idea of Griffith not able to do anything but wait in anticipation for a touch is so good. I could see that almost pushing his limits actually – like if Guts was too quiet or waited too long without touching him he’d start to freak out about being left alone. I could see Guts being really into it – like Griffith can’t look at him, but every ounce of attention is still focused on him, even moreso bc he can’t see him.

Also can I just say while we’re on this topic, and ok this is kind of a 180 into heavier kink but w/e it’s very fitting in Berserk in particular and it’s still sweet imo lol – scarification. Like yeah I mentioned Guts wouldn’t be willing to hurt Griffith, but I could so see Griffith wanting some kind of permanent symbol of Guts’ intent to keep him, and scars and wounds are such sexual things in this manga lol. Once they were both relatively secure in their relationship or w/e, like after several years lol. Something always on him, like proof that even as a king or a husband or wtfever that first and foremost he’s Guts’, that he would occasionally absently trace over his clothes during important meetings and kingdom-running lol.

And anyway Guts already has a scar from that time Griffith stabbed him, so it would be kind of mutual too.

I feel like there’d need to be a ton of set-up for that lol, but yk assuming this is a happy AU where he somehow realized Guts > dream without being tortured for a year first.

i liked ur meta-not meta abt sub griffith! a lot of abuse/csa/trauma/etc victims will have kinks based around those experiences, so how fucked griffith is with his guilt as one example, that honestly could lead as realistic basis as to why he could be a sub or at least prefer it, be into hand restraints, not being in control, the praise kink, etc

lol ty! not so much meta as headcanon, but it’s fun to think about. and yeah like that’s another angle to explore too, though not one I was really thinking of. It’s a bit dark for fun porn, though if you want to go depressing and psychological it’s there.

please extrapolate on griffith being a sub and why lmao?

lmao yeah ok i’m in the mood for this

so like, tbh I actually think griffguts would be p vanilla in general, and that post was kind of a joke about how thrilled Griffith was to cede control of his life over to god/fate. BUT if he was into bdsm he would definitely be a sub and not a dom imo

yk some ppl like being responsible for other ppl, like giving orders, like
being in control, so they work to be in that position of power in their
personal and professional lives, but Griffith is def not one of them lol. for Griffith, being in control is a necessary requirement of his dream, and it’s p much canon that he wants a reprieve from it.

so if god is the one who ends up taking the reins in the tragic version of
berserk, in the happy version then obviously Guts is the one who gives Griffith a break from responsibility every night and adds some balance
to his life.

also to maintain this pretentious not-actually-meta take lmao, Griffith’s narrative is basically about wanting to be absolved from
his feelings of guilt. the tragedy of his narrative is that he could’ve
had that through a relationship with Guts, through Guts telling him he
isn’t cruel, through Guts seeing all the things he hates about himself
and loving him anyway, but instead he got it through fate claiming
control over his life and god telling him he’s the chosen one whose
whole existence was dictated since before he was even born.

so i’m js, Griffith relinquishing control to Guts some nights + praise kink = ~thematically resonant~ sex lol

but like to actually go at this from a real character standpoint, imo Griffith’s got way too many self loathing issues to want to hurt/dominate anyone
when he doesn’t have to, and again like, having power is a burden to him. if he
had to dom it would be a chore with a lot of potential to backfire and
add to his self loathing, x1000 if it was someone he loved, ie, Guts.
like, it’s just canon that he doesn’t want to order Guts around lol.

And he’s insecure about whether Guts sees him as cruel, he wants Guts to want him rather than keeping Guts by force, etc, so I think even just consensually domming Guts would light his self loathing up bc it would be like a reenactment of what he fears/hates about himself. Whereas subbing to Guts (w/ the right atmosphere ofc, ie full of praise and tenderness, not like, sadism and degredation) would reassure him that Guts wants him.

To be more detailed, I
think in particular he’d like being tied up and knowing he couldn’t
escape – so struggling and testing his restraints. that visceral feeling
of control being taken away would be good for getting him in the
right head space. Knowing he’s not in control, that he’s ceded control
to someone else for a while, would be a huge part of what he likes about
it.

(I mean considering how extreme Griffith’s issues w/ guilt and responsibility are I think it’s maybe a little silly to think bondage would be theraputically relaxing for him lol, but yk, it still ~feels right~)

And again, praise kink man. Lots of “you’re so good”s and “I
love you like this” etc. Not so much with a focus on looks, but more
just existing? And letting Guts see him so vulnerable and open, and being praised for it, etc.

I
could see him being into pain. Not like as a punishment thing, but as a
way of grounding himself in the physical and distracting himself from
his thoughts by focusing on something. Imo that’s why he self harms. But
I don’t think it would really be like, a healthy thing lol, considering
his self-harming behaviour, and I don’t think Guts would be willing to hurt him
anyway. Instead he’d rather try to overwhelm Griffith with pleasure to drown out his
thoughts. orgasm control and edging, anyone?

Specifically with Guts, he’d be really, really into
being manhandled and rough, fast, desperate sex. The sense that Guts
can’t help but fuck him because he wants him so much. Unfortunately for Griffith, Guts would absolutely not be able to do that lol. At least not for a long time.

Actually
to focus on Guts for a bit, I think he’d be kind of a terrible dom.
Like, i’m ngl, at its core I feel like griffguts is bottom4bottom,
sub4sub lmao, but then there’s like a million mitigating factors, like trauma, and canon shifting power dynamics – like eg if Guts has heard the
promrose hall speech, he would never in a million years sub to Griffith,
while if he hasn’t he’d be more than happy to be ordered to suck his
dick or w/e.

buuut I think if we’re going the bdsm route then
overall Guts would be more comfortable domming than Griffith would be,
and Griffith would want to sub more than Guts would, so there you go.

What
Guts would be into, wrt domming Griffith, would be praising him, would
be feeling powerful, would be knowing Griffith trusts him, and would be
knowing Griffith well enough to be able to drive him wild without being
told what to do lol. And ofc the whole power exchange thing with Griffith being a leader/king/whatever in day to day life but Guts knowing Griffith lets him take control when they’re alone would really satisfy Guts on that deep level where he wants Griffith’s attention/regard imo.

Also imo Guts is more service top if anything,
so it would take a while for him to get to the point where he feels
confident in doing things to Griffith without Griffith’s input and Griffith assuring him he’s into it, but he’d get there eventually. Which would be important bc if Griffith was telling him what to do the whole time he was tied up it would defeat the purpose.

Ok I think this response is long enough lol.

Griffith wants a friend that is equal to him, but I never really pictured him as a guy who wants to be equal to anyone.

Yeah I think this is a pretty common conception of Griffith tbh. I’m not sure exactly why you feel this way, but I’ve seen lots of people taking it as read that he’s like, power-obsessed, or a control freak, and that impacts how they see his character.

But I don’t see that at all tbh. I’m going to like, rly briefly summarize how I feel, bc I have a lot of long versions that expand on these points (eg here and here and ofc here if you want the nearly thesis length take lol) if you want more explanation.

Basically Griffith wants power for a reason. He doesn’t want power for the sake of power, he wants power to achieve a goal, a goal that he feels he needs to achieve because of guilt.

A significant aspect of Griffith’s narrative is about how being a leader, being responsible for lives, being distant from everyone who follows him so he can maintain an image, etc, is a burden that takes a huge emotional toll on him.

Griffith is kind of trapped in this paradigm of control and being controlled. He has to be in control for the sake of his dream, in control of himself, in control of others as a leader, but again like, a big point of his narrative is that it’s a burden on him, and at least subconsciously, he wants out. Being a leader who always has to portray the correct image isolates him, being responsible for lives lost fills him with guilt, and he’s stuck because his entire sense of worth revolves around achieving his dream.

And by being controlled I’m referring to the way fate absolves him of guilt, and how he learns it was his destiny and everything he’s ever done was puppeteered by God and he’s nothing more than a pawn, etc. This holds true even as Femto and NeoGriffith, kind of ironically – at his most powerful he is aware that he has no control at all. Like, most of NeoGriffith’s apparent powers seem to be just this intrinsic knowledge that whatever he wants to do is what he’s destined to do, and therefore he can’t be harmed or stopped or prevented from doing what he wants.

(There’s probably also something to be said about Griffith’s powerlessness post-torture, but idk that basically boils down to Griffith still being responsible for that mountain of corpses, but not having the power to follow through and justify it. control vs no power, vs say ngriff’s power but no control. idk this is too long already lol, vague musing on that is enough for now.)

Umm okay to get back to my point, basically imo Griffith is kind of pushed and pulled between the burden of having too much control and the paradoxical freedom of having no control, and his desire for an equal seems to me to be like, an escape from these two extremes. Someone whose life he doesn’t control, who pursues their own reason for being, who Griffith can’t order to their death, who Griffith doesn’t have to wear a mask for – and someone who would fight him if their dreams ever clashed. Valuable as a friend and as an enemy as someone independent of him, who he has no power over and who has no power over him – or who they each have an equal amount of emotional power over.

Lol okay this was all very theme-y rather than based on characterization. So as for like, actual depictions of Griffith wanting Guts as an equal, you have moments like asking him to kill Julius rather than ordering him, the water fight, “it’s funny… you’re the first person I’ve ever spoken to like this” after explaining his thoughts on fate and wanting to know what he’s destined for, “do you think that I’m cruel?”, refusing to rein him in during battle to Casca’s consternation, reminiscing fondly on the duel he almost lost, risking his life and dream for Guts, basically his emotional dependence on him in general.

And wrt his tantrum when Guts leaves, often cited as Griffith’s control-freakiness at work lol, it’s actually another instance of Griffith wanting Guts as an equal, but compilcated by knowing that the reality of their relationship is that Griffith is Guts’ boss, and moreover, he won his loyalty in a fight. He has a breakdown because he sees Guts leaving as a rejection and a statement on their entire relationship – he thinks Guts only stayed with him because Griffith won that duel, and it horrifies him and affirms his belief that he’s cruel, but also narrows his options down to “let him go or win him in another duel” lol, when what he actually wants is for Guts to choose to stay because he wants to stay. (Again, I’ve written about this at great length here if you want more evidence for this reading.)

so that wasn’t as short as I was hoping it would be lmao. But yeah basically the way I see Griffith is that being in control is a burden to him, and he wants an equal/friend because he wants someone whose life he doesn’t control to know him and freely choose him, not as a figurehead but as a person. And he wanted that someone to be Guts.

Hello! I just wanted to drop by and say that I really enjoy your metas! I also wanted to know your opinion on the reasons as to why Griffith loves and relies on Guts so much (unless you’ve already talked about this then nvrmind lol). Thanks for reading this and have an awesome day! :)

Thank you, I rly appreciate you saying so ❤

I’ve probably touched on it before but hell if I can remember where or
how much lol, and I like talking about this so I’ll totally share my
thoughts here.

I think the main reason, which I generally come back to, is because Guts doesn’t treat Griffith with the same awe and reverence the rest of the Hawks tend to treat him with.

Their relationship is very wrapped up in power dynamics – Guts joining the Hawks after losing a duel to him, Guts feeling inadequate after Promrose, Griffith stuck on a pedestal wanting someone to share in the aspects of his rise to power that he feels he has to keep hidden from the rest of the Hawks, Griffith proclaiming none of the Hawks are his friends because they aren’t his equals, “how long ago did someone I was supposed to have in hand… instead gain such a strong hold on me?”, Guts internally waxing poetic about how untouchable and perfect Griffith is until remembering moments where Griffith was extremely vulnerable w/ him, etc etc.

This is a moment when they both felt like they were equals. “Now we’re even.” Just two kids having a water fight.

Griffith distances himself shortly after this with his speech about his dream, but I feel like it kind of encapsulates them. There are all these artificial power dynamics standing in their way – leader/soldier, dude with a dream/dude without a dream, griffith trying to maintain an image/guts buying into that image after overhearing the Promrose speech – but at their core they’re just two people who have a strong connection.

This shows through when Guts treats Griffith’s orders as suggestions and gets chewed out by Casca, when Griffith asks him to assassinate Julius like a favour rather than an order, when Griffith risks his life and dream for Guts, when Griffith asks if Guts thinks he’s cruel, when Guts says Griffith can take off the mask since it’s just the two of them, etc. All these little glimpses of equality that can never last – and every time they fall by the wayside in favour of reinforcing the power dynamics, it leads to tragedy.

But someone has to win the duel they insist on fighting.

lol I think I kinda veered off topic. But basically Guts is the one person who comes closest to treating Griffith as a person rather than a figurehead, and this marks their relationship as different, and brings them closer than Griffith is with anyone else. It’s why Guts is the person Griffith chooses to help assassinate people. You can even see this in Guts’ decision to leave – Casca hears the speech too and pretty much resigns herself to playing second fiddle, but Guts decides to do whatever it takes to become Griffith’s equal, misguided as his reasoning was.

Yk, rather than upholding the artificial dream criteria of equality, ignore it and recognize that it’s just getting in the way of actual equality.

Buuuut that explains like, why Griffith came to rely so heavily on Guts, and let him be the only person to see underneath the mask of perfection. It doesn’t explain why he was so drawn to Guts in the first place, or why he risked his life to save him the very first time, after only knowing him like a week.

Honestly idk lol. I think this was partially meant to be a little ironic, coming right after the Black Swordsman arc – showing that what fascinates Griffith about Guts is exactly those qualities Guts embodies to an extreme extent as the Black Swordsman, and which Femto claimed to have no interest in.

Overall I think it’s definitely the case that Griffith is enamoured of these traits of Guts’ – his stubbornness, his willingness to do anything to win, the way he faces danger head on, etc. I’m not entirely sure what that says about Griffith though, or even if it’s intended to reflect on Griffith’s character beyond that irony of how Guts is at his most “interesting” by this criteria when he’s Griffith’s enemy.

Though…

I wonder if it still kind of comes back to that equality.

The fight Griffith reminisces fondly about is the one where he got punched in the face and nearly lost because the other dude bit his fucking sword and pushed him off a hill lol.

Like it kind of comes down to Griffith being knocked off his pedestal, and Guts having the ability to do that?

Ooooh and that makes the second duel really interesting. Guts is the only person Griffith has lost a fight to, and that maybe straight up symbolizes his love. Like Guts walked away after demonstrating exactly what Griffith loves most about him.

Idk lol this has kind of devolved into me just like musing outloud, sorry.

And actually I do know I talked about the whole equality thing more here (this is the 2nd part of a very long analysis lol) if you feel like reading more of my thoughts on that lol. I kind of want to sit down and think about how the duels and Guts’ “struggler” thing fit in more now lol.

Anyway ty for the question and comments, and I hope you had a lovely day when you sent this lol, and are having another lovely day now!

I’m gonna block you, which is why I capped this message instead of responding directly, but I do actually want to take a sec and answer your questions first lol, because hey it’s an excuse to talk about this shit, responding to these basic attempts at takedowns can occasionally be useful as validation for other shippers lol, and the first one is actually kinda worth discussing.

first question

Guts and Griffith both ended up opening up to Casca about their respective traumas because she happened to be there at a point when they were both particularly vulnerable.

Guts didn’t sit down with Casca and consciously decide to tell her his life story, Guts had a violent flashback during sex, strangled Casca, and then rambled about his childhood in a daze while hardly even noticing she was in front of him until she touched him and he jumped and realized what he’d just said and done.

If he’d been hitting Griffith from behind instead of Casca the exact same thing probably would’ve happened.

And if Guts had been around back then and happened upon Griffith in the river after seeing him with Gennon the previous night, the exact same thing probably would’ve happened then too, give or take Guts’ response to the “am I dirty” question.

And neither of these dudes would’ve brought these subjects up without a catalyst to anyone, including each other. Griffith because he’s repressed about it, and Guts because it wouldn’t even occur to him as something worth sharing until he’s mid-flashback.

And Griffith did have an equivalent conversation with Guts, when he asked, “do you think that I’m cruel?” That also had a catalyst, ie, they just carried out some assassinations together, but it was just as vulnerable and intimate a question as Griffith’s “am I dirty?” to Casca.

So basically the answer is: just because Guts has never had a flashback in front of Griffith doesn’t mean he’s not comfortable with him.

second question

well for a start, here are a few:

Also the entirety of the Count’s backstory in chapter 7. And a bunch of panels I skipped because I’m lazy and I’ve already posted a million collections of Gay Berserk Moments.

third question

he hasn’t chosen to sleep with a man bc a) trauma, b) he doesn’t even consciously recognize his own feelings for griffith, his subconscious beast of darkness is the one telling him he’s longing for him etc, c) even if he did figure it out during the golden age he doesn’t think he’s worthy of griffith lol there’s a whole arc about that, d) he’s only had sex twice in his life give him a chance, e) most relevantly, he’s the protagonist of a story in a seinen mag written by and for presumably hetero men.

I felt like you knew me when you mentioned how male writers making female characters super feminine all of a sudden when it’s time for them to be romantic. Why can’t females be pretty being tomboys or not girly? But of course if I said that I have “internalized misogyny” sorry I read your meta on casca. I love it. Finally someone gets it

I’m glad that resonated with you! Yeah it’s really common to see in fiction and very frustrating imo.

okay heres another sorta creative ish question because you have good ideas and thoughts and must realize this. i was crying abt how much guts love griffiths broad shoulders and slim hips —-> contemplating guts being closeted gay and the physical attraction he experiences like do you pick up what im putting down bc im interested in your thoughts and opinions on it. its like i want to write but i need to bounce it ofd people first. anyway.

ty i appreciate the encouragement ❤

like guts particularly loving griffith’s more masculine features and maybe angsting about it? bc yeah that sounds like, good and interesting and well-rounded, as opposed to shit like “it’s ok for him to be attracted to griffith because he looks like a girl/griffith as the one exception to guts’ heterosexuality.” Which is not to say that wouldn’t also be interesting, but yk, as an examined part of Guts’ internalized homophobia, not played straight like a lot of ppl tend to do (not so much in griffguts fandom that I’ve seen, I just mean as a gay fic trope in general).

actually the whole general idea of exploring griffith’s androgyny and how guts relates to that wrt internalized homophobia sounds rly potentially interesting. Dealing with recognizing that he’s not just attracted to his long curly hair and full lips, but also his masculinity, and what that means to Guts as a closeted dude who may be still in denial over his sexuality.

(which is not to say that a dude being attracted to a dude’s feminine features isn’t still gay attraction, but i mean from guts’ un-nuanced pov ofc)

I hope this is what you meant lol.

What member of Guts crew will use the Behelit or is it for that princess Griffith trying to married for her crown.

Oh man I’ve been harping on about Casca using the behelit for a while now, and that’s still my hope.

I think it’s actually relatively plausible as of the most recent chapter (I laid out a theory here) but what I’m less certain about is whether she’ll actually make a sacrifice and go apostle. That’s what I’m gunning for, but I think there’s also a good chance that either a) she’ll be talked down thru the power of love and friendship and I’ll be very disappointed, or b) Skull Knight will put his plan into action before she even gets a chance to decide and “conveniently” cut things short.

Never even considered Charlotte as a possibility. I think it’s unlikely since first she’d have to get the behelit, and her and Guts’ storylines haven’t intersected since the rescue mission. Plus her sacrifice would inevitably have to be NGriff, and NGriff being a sacrifice would be super interesting but if anyone’s gonna sacrifice him I want it to be Guts.

what do u think is canon guts deep repressed gay fantasy for romantic first date w griffith 🧐 guts is a take it slow kind of guy i think hed die irl if he got to hold griffiths hand while they were walking.

ajd;fsk;ej;ekd i’m so bad at creative thinking lol. but honestly this is a Good topic, I’ll give it a shot.

so ok ummm guts is Into the idea of being with someone he can fight alongside, and i personally think that he’s got a real Thing for being rescued/taken care of/basically given attention and proof that he’s loved. And he’d want to reciprocate in return. (”For your sake, huh? For now… I’ll wield my sword… for his sake.”)

So like, a scenario where he fell off the cliff with Griffith instead of Casca and then they fight the 100 men together, back to back, then basically collapse on each other when it’s over. an excuse for bros to cuddle. and then one kisses the other and guts opens his eyes and realizes he’s hard and has some things to work out for himself.

or maybe a bandaging each others wounds after a fight scenario that gets rly physically intimate.

ty for asking this was fun to think about! if you have Thoughts as well I’m also v interested. also yeah i def see guts wanting to take things v slow once he figures out what he actually wants lol.

What Griffith’s dream is about? What does he want to achieve? I didn’t get it, take a kingdom for himself.. sounds lame, and the manga writer haven’t flashed it out yet or just talk about it in a selfish or dark way. What do you think?

hooo boy ok long story short, it’s a coping mechanism. I personally think it’s likely it started out as childish whimsy, and when people started dying to achieve it (he became a mercenary leader when he was still a kid) it became an absolutely necessary goal because those deaths would only be justified if he achieved it.

I also think it’s possible that it just straight up started out as a coping mechanism, a dream of a paradise where he has the power to make whatever changes he wants to the world, to fix whatever plagued him as a child – poverty, nobles abusing their power, lives being bought and sold, whatever. Either way, the guilt as motivation came afterwards, and then consumed him.

It’s all there in his monologue to Casca in the river. I think Miura actually did a great job of fleshing his dream out, but it is largely between the lines, rarely outright stated.

like here we learn that people dying for money, on the whims of those more powerful than them, bothers him:

Here we find out that he has let himself be bought and sold for the sake of saving as many lives as he could, showing us that he has a personal stake in why people’s lives being treated as commodities and subject to the whims of nobility bothers him:

Here we find out that he feels like he has to achieve his dream for the sake of the dead:

Here we see the kingdom directly depicted as an escape from the darkness of the real world:

Here we find out that he wanted to do something, change something, with the power of the throne (the monster is war):

And knowing what we know about Griffith’s feelings of guilt, his disgust at nobility, and what Falconia ends up looking like, it’s reasonable to conclude that he wanted to have the power to carve out a place where people aren’t exploited by those more powerful than them.

And, as an aside, it’s largely talked about in a selfish and dark way because Griffith himself denies this deeper meaning. It’s personal, it’s vulnerable, it doesn’t fit the image of the perfect leader of the Hawks, and therefore we only see glimpses of how he really feels in his more vulnerable moments. He frames it to himself as just something he wants just for the sake of wanting something, because it’s noble to have a goal, but we’re shown enough glimpses through that misleading and shallow explanation to figure out the truth – that it’s a coping mechanism born out of guilt with a side of a deep-seated desire for a safe place where people are treated equally.

If you want the long version, I wrote this a little while ago:

https://bthump.tumblr.com/post/171634331901/the-brightest-thing-a-griffith-analysis

The first part in particular is all about Griffith’s dream as a coping mechanism, though the other three parts expand on that a lot.

Charlotte calling out for Griffith to save her after her father tried to rape her is so ironic and sad. I headcanon casca telling her what Griffith did to her in the eclipse and Charlotte becoming catatonic everyday.

speaking for myself I’m very done w/ reactions to rape in berserk that take away entire characters so I hope this doesn’t happen. losing casca for 20 years was enough, I don’t want to lose charlotte too from just hearing about it lol.

and ngl the last thing I want to see is Miura depicting Charlotte learning about Femto raping Casca. Learning NGriff is actually a demon now has potential, adding Charlotte trying to deal with her fiance/husband/whatever having raped someone is way too real and I don’t trust Miura an iota with that kind of character conflict considering how he’s handled the fallout of the eclipse rape so far.

don’t you think it’s interesting that the godhand said they promised the count they would make him a “supernatural being who would never know sorrow or despair” yet we see many apostles (including the count) feel despair at some points?

Yep.

Like I think it’s a little ridiculous that the Count got a chance to make two sacrifices, and it’s probably a case of early installment weirdness bc I don’t think that actually makes sense wrt what we know about how sacrifices work (like what was going to happen if the Count did sacrifice Theresia? He’s already one of the more powerful apostles we’ve seen)

But I do think it’s definitely meaningful that the Count falls into despair, and not just an accidental contradiction lol. The further on we go the more depth apostles get, from pure evil snakeman to three dimensional count who still has loved ones to sympathetic rosine to zodd and irvine getting the same thematic inner beast vs man stuff guts gets.

Not to mention Femto letting Guts escape, and lbr I know we’re all hoping this is going to come full circle wrt NeoGriffith.

I can picture Casca having a boost of physical strength in combat from her violent flashbacks of the eclipse. She was pinned down by two men and had a loss of muscle mass, but was still able to kill them. I headcanon her style of fighting to be more vicious than before.

Well I would love to see a terrifyingly vicious Casca. I don’t think it would rly make sense for her to have ptsd flashbacks as a fighting aid (then again what about Casca’s trauma does make sense? bc yeah that did happen once in canon lol so like w/e) but yk just generally channeling three years worth of repressed rage into violence would be extremely satisfying.

Ever thought about the fact that the song “Frozen” by Within Temptation fits Griffith really really well? I mean … almost-like-it-was-written-for-him well? (At some point, there’s even the echo “I sacrifice”!) Sorry, after listening to it, I can’t stop thinking about it! ^^;

I’d never heard it before now, but yeah I get what you mean. Some of the lines def give me kind of a Griffith right before he starts the transformation into Femto vibe.

Griffith looked like Josuke Joestar in that panel with Guts the potty lips.

I assume you mean pouty lips lol

idk which panel you mean but i’ll take your word for it

The first idea I got from the last expresstion from Griffith before he start transforming into Femto: he was pleased with the latest developments. He got his “making his dream reality” hope comes anew, and he has nothing to do with Guts anymore. What do you think about it? I saw you say he meant to give Guts last love smile. Can you explain more, please?

I think it really just comes down to how you interpret Miura’s facial expressions but to me this looks tender and loving.

It’s Griffith’s last glimpse of Guts, after choosing to sacrifice him but before he starts shedding pieces of himself and transforming, and seeing that love in his eyes just makes this moment for me lol.

He’s content with his decision, there’s no anguish there or second guessing or wishing it could’ve been another way. It’s maybe even relishing this last glimpse of Guts, and of being able to feel that love without it also like, causing him pain, because he knows this is the end of it.

I mean I’m just reading really into it because this is how I see Griffith and his feelings at the end of his story, but I think it fits the image.

I think your interpretation is fair and makes sense, like, he does look pleased and I think he is, but the look in his eye is just so damn tender, yk? Like he’s saying goodbye, without malice, and just drinking in the last sight of Guts he’ll ever have. I think love is definitely part of this moment.

You’re absolutely right about Griffith sending those demons after Rickert instead of LOcus since we see Griffith see Rickert leave. Is femto the real Griffith the ruthless, calculated, charismatic Machiavellian repressed feels he had in store deep within him. Griffith is basically the most human character as Femto not so much he’s stoic, but he always met everyone’s expectations of him and he’s obsession with being seen as a hero from fairy tale. If Griffith inner core his child like boy state

Well I mean it still could be either, the point is that it’s ambiguous – we see Locus’ extremely negative reaction to Rickert slapping Griffith to hint towards him – I just think there’s positive aspects in either Griffith or Locus sending Raksas after Rickert.

And I’m sorry I can’t really parse the rest of your message tbh, I’m not sure if you’re asking me if Femto is the real Griffith or if you’re just explaining your take on him? So feel free to rephrase if it is a question but otherwise I can’t really respond.

What’s Griffith next move of course he’s doing propaganda like making death relatives soul visit their love ones etc. I have a theory maybe Charlotte leaves Griffith in the alter ROFL. It’s wishful thinking but wherever Griffith goes, there’s fucking drama. I mean cmon. Charlotte is bad luck he slept with her and boom, that was he’s doom then her father ruined him seeing her can bring remorse against Charlotte idk some shit will happens between those two Charlotte ain’t stupid as we think.

I wouldn’t call the whole souls of the dead thing propaganda, that’s just like, something he’s legitimately doing from what we can tell.

And yeah sure it’d be nice to see something happen with Charlotte. Probably won’t be leaving him at the altar all of a sudden with no build up but yk maybe someday she’ll run off with anna.

Griffith as Femto will observe humanity see their feelings unfold, fantasia was something they desired. Griffith is more like an angel a anti angel I don’t know how to put it, but he will see things unfold then something inside of him will make him feel (Guts ) again. Femto is more boring but hard to describe we know what he did with Casca is something human Griffith wouldn’t do, seems godhand when acending so things their human self didn’t do. I’m always making theories what does Griffith want?

Yeah I definitely see Femto/NeoGriff as basically an angel within the world of Berserk. The Godhand have been referred to as angels a few times too. I love the idea of him basically existing to fulfill humanity’s desires but his residual feelings for Guts are like a bug or flaw in the system that impedes God’s plans. Tho who knows?

Imo yeah becoming an apostle or a Godhand essentially strengthens your negative emotions and weakens/destroys your positive ones. “A fissure in your heart will open into which evil will surge,” Griffith explicitly losing his ability to feel empathy as he transforms, in the lost chapter Femto is described as being physically (well astral-ly?) made of evil, etc. So yeah, it literally changes you, but not necessarily into something completely new with no relation to your original self – it’s more like, an alternate version of you.

Are you asking me what Griffith wants, or just kind of musing outloud lol, I’m not sure based on your phrasing. But imo he just wants a kingdom/empire. I think NeoGriffith basically retained human Griffith’s ambition, but lost the very human reasons behind that ambition (guilt, despire for an escape from harsh reality, to feel like he has a reason for existing) in his transformation, making him kind of this eerie being who just exists to create a utopian empire.

But again, residual feelings for Guts in the mix can and should complicate that rly interestingly.

In a noEclipse AU, how do you think Casca and Farnese met? cause I need Casca and Farnese to be together in every AU, like griffguts. btw, i really appreciate your blog <333 !!

Hmmm Farnese would still lead the holy iron chain knights, but they wouldn’t have a 2 year pilgramage trailing Guts. They do guard duty too come to think of it… maybe Mozgus goes around to all the kingdoms under the Holy See to be creepy and threatening and ominously suggest they start their own witchhunts etc to prove their devotion to the church or w/e, and they’re his personal guards. Maybe there’s some tension brewing between kingdoms wrt religion and there’s threats of holy wars breaking out. Or, ooh, Ganeshka would still be a thing, maybe this is the holy see’s attempt to unite kingdoms against the Kushans, since Ganeshka is amassing a huge terrifying army and starting to move west. W/e.

So Farnese ends up in Midland for a while. Casca would hate her at first for being a stuck up rich noblewoman who leads an army of guards and can’t even swing a sword, and since this is Griffith’s kingdom now Casca would be his right hand woman while Farnese is Mozgus’, so they might have to interact and feign politeness at like, the hospitality balls and during tense meetings.

(also lmao @ the idea of Griffith dealing with this shit, he’d absolutely hate having to humour someone like mozgus)

Farnese might be kind of in awe of Casca, as someone who clawed her way to power instead of just being appointed due to birth status, plus she’d be attracted to her, and both those things would manifest in hate lol bc Farnese is a mess. Casca would also be kind of jealous of how Farnese had everything handed to her, and would also feel attraction which would piss her off.

Also imagine Farnese spending hours ranting to Serpico about how horrible Casca is, and vice-versa w/ Casca complaining to Judeau, and both Serpico and Judeau being like, hmmmm.

I’d want to manufacture a scenario where Casca has to save Farnese. Political assassination shit? Slooooow burn where this rivalry continues until they go to war together, somehow ending up within interaction-distance of each other lol? Something lighter maybe – a hunting expedition meant to encourage comraderie gone wrong? Anyway smthn happens and Farnese transfers her devotion from God to Casca, and starts listening when she explains how fucked up the inquisition is, and they start bonding and realizing they have things in common despite wildly different upbringings, like parents who didn’t gaf and latching onto causes to feel fulfilled and being sole women surrounded by men, etc.

Idt Farnese’s worldview necessarily has to be shattered before she loses her faith, like in canon, bc I think her faith is just a coping mechanism for loneliness.

Also I rly like the idea of Casca being the one to save someone, instead of needing saving, and that being the start of a romance.

Ok that’s all I can think of for now, this is probably a longer response than you were expecting lol but I just love that love/hate shit so much.

my favorite thing is fanboys talking about how debilman inspired berserk for five hours then saying oh i hope berserk ends with guts killing griffith in a really brutal way

lmao right? also like, i’m js Akira’s insistence on total war against Satan after Miki was killed was pretty strongly portrayed as negative. the message is an unsubtle war is bad, and both Akira and Satan end up seeing the other’s pov and meeting in the middle in the sequel. but I feel like those same fans probably just see the ending as Akira righteously fighting Ryo the evil gay to avenge his dead not gf and then tragically losing the fight so like, w/e.

anyway at this point, with saga all kind of up in the air and no one knowing if ryo and akira are even related to the characters in it, the ryokira story ended with them teaming up to defeat god after banging in hell so

@miura there’s some more inspiration 4u

Basically you’re saying Griffith in an AU could’ve had Guts x Charlotte + Dream . You forgot Casca lmao. She wouldn’t tolerate anything she has her limits seeing that will cause problems and maybe she would’ve activated the Behelit earlier.

Nah I disagree, Casca’s a reasonable person when she’s not like, exhausted to the point of suicide by leading a band of fugitives. She’d be a little jealous, sure, but not sacrifice-all-her-friends jealous. She’s known at least since Promrose Hall that Griffith was gonna marry Charlotte, and she’s known longer than that that Griffith’s in love with Guts, and in general she’s been more than capable of dealing with it, and even found herself gaining respect for both Guts and Charlotte on separate occasions, despite her jealousy.

I think she’d be happy as the general of Midland’s flagship army and she’d eventually move on and find someone else. I mean hey it’s canon that she has plenty of admirers, js

ngl tho… i’ve been thinking about Godhand Casca in this AU lol, so I definitely don’t completely disagree, we’re actually weirdly on the same wavelength there.

I’d just want something other than jealousy to send her over the edge into despair.

Do you have any suggestions for manga with a “Guts/Griffith dynamics”? For now the only ones I could think of are: Devilman and (very slightly) Evangelion.

Unfortunately I don’t. I would’ve said Devilman but you beat me to it, and I haven’t even read/seen Evangelion myself lol.

If anyone else wants to jump in and suggest something for Anon please do! My manga knowledge is way too thin to be useful here lol. And ngl I’m also v interested if anyone has recs.

Can we have your list of griffguts moments? :3

For sure! And this is perfect timing bc it’s a super boring night for me, so ty!

Ok this is not including the moments that got on this list, so this is missing a few obvious contenders, but w/e. Also “do I need a reason” *significant sexy look* would be on this list but I’m counting it on the last list lol, even though technically it was a memory of that scene.

And I’m doing top 12 instead of 10 because there are so many good moments.

12.

This is still what Guts wants most, what drives him.

11.

Yeah of all the post-torture moments this might seem like an odd choice but I just love how fucking dark and hardcore this is, for Griffith’s sake. Like Guts’ whole rampage through Midland could be here but this is the best moment.

10.

It’s just… so blatant.

Guts… buddy…

No matter how many times I read it every single time I turn the page it takes my breath away lmao.

Oh Guts, you could’ve had it all.

Way to make your choice to save Casca all about Griffith. But also this is so good because it’s the clearest moment of regret, and also it’s Griffith’s heart, Griffith’s heart is what he had in the palm of his hand.

The true relationship establishing moment. This is what they’re about and this is what I’m about.

Can you believe. Like, that fucking close up of Guts… Femto… buddy…

Holy shit dude.

This could’ve been the turning point. This moment is everything, this is Griffith needing Guts more than the dream. This is the moment that makes Berserk.

This needs no explanation.

hyousa by rurutia sounds like a sad and good griffguts song !

oh yeah it really does, and the song is p lovely. based on a translation of the lyrics on youtube lol they seem absolutely perfect too

Where’s the homoerotic griffguts bath in your poll?

lmao ngl it really says something about berserk when that amazing scene doesn’t even make the top 10.

though it would probably make it on if it was just a list of griffguts moments.

Are you afraid about the “happy ending” Miura promised?

lol extremely

though idt he really promised a happy ending so much as a not completely bleak and depressing ending, so it’s not as ominous as it could be

like it sucks for me because my ideal ending is basically guts once again succumbing to his obsession with griffith, meeting with him again in a climactic manner, realizing griffith is actually still stupid in love, some kind of visual suggestion of equality or guts looking down at him bc their persistant feelings equalize them despite everything, and then guts finding some kind of emotional catharsis in that, hopefully while one or both of them is dying

but the story ending with guts still obsessed with griffith would probably be a negative ending according to like, the themes of berserk lol

i think there are ways it could be swung in a more positive direction. eg remove casca from the possibility of a romantic happily ever after with guts, lean on threatening the possibility of guts ending up like skull knight, eg stripped of humanity and lost to the armour and immortal and doomed to seek revenge forever or w/e, and put guts’ genuinely conflicting, based in love, human feelings for griffith opposite that. in this way immortality would be associated with monstrousness and death with humanity, and guts and griffith dying together, or just guts dying, or w/e would be extra perfect, particularly if one or both fail to go through with killing the other at the last minute

(the whole sacrifices doomed to hell thing kinda fucks with that but it fucks with any possible non-depressing ending no matter what lol, so miura is either going to have to go dark with guts’ ending or do what i suggest and make him not actually irrevocably destined for hell after all)

like idk i know what i want and i think there’s enough groundwork laid for it to be possible, but there’s also groundwork laid for like, worst case scenarios too. everything’s up in the air

like man i can’t help but fear the possibility that guts is going to succumb to the beast of darkness, be pulled back yet again by his friends, and then ~overcome~ his desire for revenge/to be griffith’s equal while getting with casca. and then they idk team up with elfhelm to defeat griffith/the godhand. like i believe miura is better than that but it’s only belief, not fact

What are your top 5 favorite Berserk moments?

You asked for top 5 but fuck it I’m doing top 10 because when I came up with 5 I felt like they were all way too obvious lol. But also these are off the top of my head and not absolute, they’d probably change depending on what I’ve re-read most recently.

And I’m containing this to single panels.

10.

Guts catching a glimpse of NeoGriff on a distant hill, shining sunrise behind him, the sadness in his eye, the symbolic darkness that surrounds him after their eyes meet and Guts is carried away in a boat… it’s good shit and, if purposeful, might be my favourite example of the bright companionship/dark isolation imagery.

This is specifically Guts’ memory while running through the tunnels on the way to Griffith and failing to convince himself that Griffith is a perfect godly being bc oh shit he was in love with me and I abandoned him and destroyed him. Just, yk, with a little less self awareness than that, and a little more resolute denial.

I said only one panel but I mean I can’t just have Femto there without the associated words, so w/e close enough.

Holy shit a moment that doesn’t involve Griffith or griffguts?? But honestly I may hate the circumstances and everything surrounding it but goddamn Guts’ flashback and monologue here are good. And this panel in particular always gets me because of this particular illustrative detail Guts shares, Guts’ paw-like hand, the dog association as he tells Casca about killing Gambino… it’s such a good allusion to the beast of darkness ultimately being born out of Guts’ childhood abuse.

😦

Peak Griffith.

This is absolutely everything I could possibly ask for post-Eclipse on one page.

Come on. Griffith’s moment of ultimate despair is the touch of Guts’ hand.

Ok this encompasses the whole moment of the sacrifice, “you’re the only one…” etc, but I’m picking this panel to illustrate it because Griffith’s expression obliterates me every time I look at it. Look at how in love he is, like, the following words are almost redundant this image illustrates the sentiment so well.

Yeah this one is the most obvious, but it’s my fave for a reason. This is the purest expression of Griffith’s narrative, this is what it all boils down to: valuing Guts over the dream. This is what I’m about.

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