tbh I don’t really think it’s a matter of NeoGriffith transforming into a more powerful Femto form. We saw him as Femto once, when he killed Ganeshka’s ascended form, and I’m pretty sure that we only saw him as Femto because we were seeing him from Ganeshka’s point of view. I don’t think he literally transformed, I think it’s like, his ~ethereal~ form that only other godlike beings can see. Maybe Skull Knight can see it too, idk.
Miura uses a very deliberate point of view shot to reveal NGriff-as-Femto for the first time, which is why I’m thinking it’s not a literal transformation.
But like, when it comes to power levels, idk. It’s all down to whatever Miura makes up, right? If Guts needs to defeat NGriff/Femto who has Femto’s telekinetic powers etc, Miura will make it possible by revealing magic Elf deus ex machina power up thing or something.
My hope though is that it doesn’t come down to a physical might against might thing, but rather, an emotional confrontation.
At the end of the day, even if NGriff is as powerful as Femto and Guts is no physical match for him, he still has the same weakness that resulted in Femto finding himself unable to kill Guts, and letting him go after the Eclipse. And NGriff calling off Zodd while his heart was unexpectedly beating. And Guts has his own, “the instant I saw him I’d forgotten my urge to kill,” thing.
Like this is a protag/antag relationship where both are conflicted and reluctant to kill the other, and have therefore been avoiding each other for like 200 chapters lol, and when you think of it like that I don’t think power levels are going to factor in much.
So to actually answer your question, the scenario I see to defeat NGriff/Femto, assuming he is defeated/killed eventually, is that Griffith fucks himself over once again because of the resurgence of his irrational, life-ruining emotions for Guts, fails to kill Guts when he should or fails to defend himself when he should or possibly does kill Guts and then has a breakdown at which point Casca can freely kill him.
Ok like, to start, Griffith’s heart starts beating when he watches Guts square off against Zodd.
Which imo is very reminiscent of the very first time he saw Guts, after he took Basuzo out.
Guts fighting Zodd on the Hill of Swords is a demonstration of the very first thing that enchanted Griffith lol.
Guts fighting Zodd specifically also has this particular relevance to Griffith’s feelings:
Their first encounter with him was all about Griffith’s irrational feelings for Guts. It kind of feels right for those feelings to hit Griffith again during another encounter with Zodd, even if he’s now on the opposite side.
So yeah I absolutely think NeoGriffith is lying his ass off to himself when he blames his feelings on the fetus lol. If I was Miura I might even go the same route – like you can’t have inarguable proof that Griffith’s feelings for Guts still exist if you’re going to be coy and ambiguous about NeoGriffith’s emotional state for the next 150 chapters. You need a narrative scapegoat to keep things ambiguous.
And lbr it’s extremely in character for Griffith to deny his feelings lmao. Like, it would be out of character if he didn’t find an excuse.
And at the same time if it turns out Griffith’s right and those are the fetus’ feelings then… it will just be mind-bogglingly, soul destroyingly bad writing lmfao. I can’t handle the concept of a writer spending 70 chapters dedicated to showing how Griffith is torn between his dream and his feelings for Guts, having those feelings completely drive the plot and making them the central point of the whole Golden Age, having the climactic sacrifice be Griffith’s attempt to escape those feelings, reintroducing Griffith as an emotionless shell of who he used to be, then dramatically suggesting that those feelings may still be there… only to have Griffith’s beating heart be a total coincidence and his residual feelings for Guts be the totally unrelated feelings of a fetus instead lmao.
Even NGriff blaming the fetus for saving Casca seems unnecessary to me, like I’d believe that if some of original Griffith’s emotions survived the transition to NGriff then he would also automatically move to save Casca, though I wouldn’t be surprised if that specifically is a legit fetus-related thing. I mean Miura’s going somewhere with the fetus lol so w/e maybe it’s somewhat relevant, but I just can’t believe it’s relevant to NGriff’s feelings for Guts.
Yeah he rly is drawn in a v extra overly beautiful way. Though I think this is more Miura’s art style changing, rather than an in-universe change, mostly because of this:
I think NGriff is probably more perfect looking than human Griff, like if you took human Griffith on the best looking day of his life and gave him that perfection all the time, but I don’t think any of his features or anything have changed, even if Miura draws them slightly different – like curlier hair eg.
ok lemme just hijack this post real quick cause the way i always read griff getting ‘more beautiful post eclipse’ was to show us that distance, to make him just that much more unavailable, i.e. he’s looking the way he did through the eyes of his followers when placed on that pedestal of absolute leader/the man who’s gonna bring them all glory, and later how he looks to guts himself (beautiful as always but very much more distant) once he started to feel like they were not equals after the fountain speech etc. etc.
because to me golden age griff as seen through guts’ eyes was always muuuch more human looking, less composed in his expressions, more open because he felt he could show that side to guts because ‘i’ve never talked to anyone like this before’ and ‘…only you’ and so on. He looks this ethereal now because it makes him unavailable visually, (e.g. wow that dude’s so perfect a lowly peasant such as i could NEVER–) and since we see him through guts’ eyes during a couple of the most powerful post eclipse scenes (honestly hill of swords is like the only one im talking about here but let’s pretend i care as much about other scenes too lmao) that unreal, unattainable beautiful look is the look that sticks, because griffith looks just as gorg. through others eyes, (like charlotte, or rickerts when they meet again) but it’s only when guts looks at him that the difference is so jarring, because TLDR; when guts looked at him before we saw a man, and now we see a god.
(or… like.. none of this and miura just evolved and his new skillz finally enable him to draw griff the way he always wanted to. (BUT I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE COULD BE A STYLISTIC CHANGE THIS OBVIOUS THAT DOES NOT HAVE SOME DEEP GRIFFGUTS ROOTS SOMEWHERE IN THERE.)
✌
ia with all of this!
and like, even if ngriff isn’t meant to be overtly physically different looking from regular griffith in any concrete way, he’s still always described as like a painting, like someone out of a fairytale, “more griffith,” etc.
I’ve framed it before as NeoGriffith becoming like the embodiment of the impression human Griffith used to leave people with, and the way you put that through Guts’ eyes specifically really makes a lot of sense to me.
NeoGriffith is totally like, an encapsulation of what Guts saw when he was looking up at him on the stairs to Promrose Hall, when he stopped seeing Griffith as just a man and he became this distant figure. And that just makes it extra depressing.
God, I was in physical pain reading this chapter. My heart just breaks for Rickert. The Griffith he followed, whose dream he shared and who he adored- who he wanted to save- that’s not the man who stands in front of him now, in this gorgeous prosperous city that was build on the corpses and dreams of hundreds upon hundreds of men. I always wondered if Rickert would feel like he shouldn’t have survived, if he ever found out the truth of what happened during the eclipse and met Griffith again. And this chapter kind of confirmed it for me. But unlike Guts he cannot drown in hatred and stake his life on revenge. All he could do, and all he had to console him was build that hill of swords. I can’t even imagine how lonely and helpless he must have felt, being the only survivor left with no answers and a thousand questions. But even so, the Griffith he faced this chapter cannot answer him, not really. I know I happily lost my shit and joked along with all of the ‘Rickert’s balls of steel and impending doom’ crap over the bitchsmack panel when it came out as a spoiler, but seeing it in the context of the chapter as a whole- wow. It took my breath away for a plethora of other reasons. People say he’s brave as hell for daring the slap the almighty Griffith but honestly I don’t think he even had time to work up courage, and it just happened on this spur of instinct- of way overdue hurt and that hurts me because jesus, Rickert deserves better dammit. Griffith’s reaction was on point though- I didn’t expect him to immediately chop Rickert’s head off or anything, but it’s impossible to read him nowadays. Is it just apathy? Like always? Does he even feel anything at all when Rickert rejects his new self- his pretty new kingdom? I can’t tell- I want to believe, but, alas. It’s Berserk. It kills. And I’m done.
Totally agreed about Rickert, I don’t often think about his survivor’s guilt but it’s a huge part of his character and it was rly satisfying to see him get to express some of his feelings about everything, directly to Griffith.
As for Griffith, his reaction is the most intriguing part of the scene to me ngl.
Like overall I think NeoGriffith is automatically interesting because of what Miura doesn’t show us? The last time we saw into his head was
like the first and only thing we find out about his internal life is that he’s not as unemotional as he appears, and every scene w/ NeoGriffith afterwards where his emotions are conspicuously hidden from us just adds to my sense that inevitably we’re heading towards a big revelation about his feelings specifically.
The scene with Rickert is especially interesting because it’s the first time we see NeoGriffith at a loss.
Like this is his only response to Rickert’s tirade, and it’s an acknowledgement of the difference between, well, who he is now and who he used to be, essentially.
Ngriff’s got nothing. And that is so damn interesting to me lol.
“Don’t throw away what you can’t replace,” is something Guts reminds Rickert right after the Reunion on the Hill of Swords and right before Guts does this:
NGriff starts putting a new Band of the Hawk together like he’s trying to replace the old one, and he’s invited Rickert to join. I got this idea from @mastermistressofdesire a while ago lol and it’s so perfect, like, basically NGriff invited Rickert along because deep down he wants validation from one of the original Hawks. It would be proof that “nothing has changed.” That he has successfully replaced the original Band.
But Rickert rejected him, and it seems like it throws him off. He’s supposed to be literally untouchable, but Rickert was able to slap him. He has nothing to say to Rickert in response other than to quietly agree that the Hawk symbol is different now. And his face is hidden from us while watching Rickert leave both times:
Like this ties in with this theory/hope of mine that NeoGriffith’s thing is going to end up being identity/isolation. As the absolute with no equal, as someone who has undergone huge changes and denies it (”this is the man I am.”), as a parallel to ascended Ganeshka, because he failed his own test and his heart started beating when he saw Guts and the first thing he did was deny to himself that it had anything to do with his feelings for Guts, and a few other little details, like eg this page at the end of a chapter all about sonia feeling lonely and isolated as the only person who sees the world the way she does:
Like c’mon Miura, all this suggestive emotional ambiguity has to be there for something.
and holds some sort of power or control over him. like i could see guts
blindfolding him and making him rest his head on guts thigh and be very
still and not squirm to like “cool down” from whatever funk he was in
while guts strokes his hair and massages his scalp. when he ties his
arms behind his back he spends a lot of time kissing griffs neck and
relishing in the little hitched intakes of breath griffith takes bc hes
still blindfolded and doesnt know where guts is gonna touch him next.
yea.
Yk I was kind of wondering about things like little inconsequential but easy to follow orders (like hold still, or say keeping his hands behind his back, or smthn), and I couldn’t decide whether it would work or not, I think you could go either way. Like on the one hand Griffith is very tightly wound and self-controlled and I feel like being able to lose control and react in a more animalistic way would really suit him, esp Guts seeing him like that and loving it, but then I could also see exerting self-control in situations that don’t matter would like, feel reassuring in a way? Idk I probably prefer the former but the latter is also appealing in its own way.
But also yessss to the blindfold thing. Idek why but the idea of Griffith not able to do anything but wait in anticipation for a touch is so good. I could see that almost pushing his limits actually – like if Guts was too quiet or waited too long without touching him he’d start to freak out about being left alone. I could see Guts being really into it – like Griffith can’t look at him, but every ounce of attention is still focused on him, even moreso bc he can’t see him.
Also can I just say while we’re on this topic, and ok this is kind of a 180 into heavier kink but w/e it’s very fitting in Berserk in particular and it’s still sweet imo lol – scarification. Like yeah I mentioned Guts wouldn’t be willing to hurt Griffith, but I could so see Griffith wanting some kind of permanent symbol of Guts’ intent to keep him, and scars and wounds are such sexual things in this manga lol. Once they were both relatively secure in their relationship or w/e, like after several years lol. Something always on him, like proof that even as a king or a husband or wtfever that first and foremost he’s Guts’, that he would occasionally absently trace over his clothes during important meetings and kingdom-running lol.
And anyway Guts already has a scar from that time Griffith stabbed him, so it would be kind of mutual too.
I feel like there’d need to be a ton of set-up for that lol, but yk assuming this is a happy AU where he somehow realized Guts > dream without being tortured for a year first.
not with that attitude
(like jesus this is such a false dichotemy. she could travel with guts for a week and get dropped off to make her own way somewhere else, or he could take her back to godo’s with him and let her learn to be a blacksmith or smthn. it’s not a choice between fighting ghosts every day vs enduring abuse. there are other options lol.
idk maybe this is supposed to say more about guts than it does jill lol, i mean this is one of the darkest points of his narrative. maybe we’ll see jill again and discover that guts’ “advice” here did her no favours.)
the end of the lost children arc fucks me up because i find rosine’s regret over sacrificing her parents and wanting to return home as she dies to be extremely sad and emotionally affecting, and very understandable and relatable as a character choice
but contrasting that to jill’s “i’m going to go home and just deal with my alcoholic physically abusive dad and his pedo friends :D” ending completely ruins it
like, if that’s presented as the alternative, yeah i give rosine a high five for sacrificing her parents and becoming a monster. good for her. fuck her parents, she should’ve been allowed to die with no regrets.
like it’s one thing for, eg, old man troll fight to talk about how dreams can be opportune escapes from reality when his reality was taking care of a sick parent and working for a living, but when your reality is an abusive family, yeah escaping from that is good, actually. and i feel like that nuance is unaccounted for in berserk lol. like you can say it’s bad to kidnap children and transform them into monsters and kill people etc without also saying it’s bad/weak/immature/whatever to want to escape from your abusive home.
and by having rosine regret the sacrifice and long for home as she dies, contrasted to jill grinning and bearing her abuse, the narrative is essentially placing the blame on rosine for not being able to cope with abuse rather than where it should be, ie, on her father for abusing his kid and orchestrating his own death.
like, the lost children arc should’ve been about condemning abusive parents but… it wasn’t, and it’s fucking bizarre really. the abusive parents are just like, generic 2 dimensional stand-ins for any kind of life struggle, and the kids get the burden of reacting to life struggles correctly. we’re not shown that the parents should’ve or even could’ve made different choices, the parents just exist as trials to test these children, essentially.
and ok fine if you want to focus on reactions to abuse, rather than the perpetuation of it, that’s fair enough, but to then condemn one kid for seizing on the only escape she had and give another kid a pat on the back for deciding not to escape but rather to just suck it up… like damn. this fucking arc lol.
@bthump i Guess that being founded by Griffith a man who betrayed his comrades, among other things shows that Falconia is based on a lie, and tragedy will come.
this response to you basically just became an excuse to disjointedly ramble about this subject more, sorry for how unnecessarily long it is lol
tbh the main point of that post was to demonstrate how personal the stakes are, and how falconia is essentially a response to the child abuse all three of our main characters have gone through, thematically. so if it does boil down to ‘welp the dude who enabled the existence of a utopia where lives aren’t bought and sold and more people aren’t traumatized the way our faves were is an asshole so throw out the whole thing’ i will find that very unsatisfying.
i think falconia poses a lot of interesting moral questions. is it worth griffith’s mountain of corpses? is granting humanity’s dream worth also granting their nightmares? was it worth the sacrifice? and those moral questions only work if falconia is portrayed as positive, which it has been so far (and as long as those negatives happened with the intention of creating the positive, hence why most of that post turned into complaining about the eclipse rape lol.)
i think miura could also go down a route where he portrays falconia more negatively in the sense that humanity shouldn’t wish for a saviour/escape, but should instead struggle through an uncaring universe. a la the lost children arc, essentially, which seems like a potentially very strong parallel.
though again, considering how personal the stakes are – always the child abuse, come on – i would find that message… sucky, to say the least. i mean honestly the message of the lost children arc basically boiled down to ‘child abuse happens, dwi kids bc running away is bad.’ i kind of hope that miura is either still going to complicate that at some point down the line (lol pipe dream) or at the very least that he does something different with falconia than he did with rosine’s land of the elves bc dear god i couldn’t stand a repeat of that shit lol.
I mean here’s one way of looking at it:
Guts, Griffith, and Casca all have experiences with csa. Guts’ way of coping is to lash out and kill everything that scares him. Casca’s way of coping is to latch onto a saviour. Griffith’s way of coping is to change the world.
Like, of the three, Griffith’s coping mechanism wins lol, and I’m not down with an overall message that says, you shouldn’t try to change things, you should just struggle your ass through life like Guts here, and fuck everyone else. I mean tbf I don’t think Guts’ method is shown in a great light, so it’s already a bit more complex than Griffith’s dream bad Guts’ dream good, but yk, I worry lol.
Again, like, the moral question shouldn’t be “is this place where people are free to live their lives without being exploited a good thing,” it should be “is this good thing worth all the bad things that led to its existence,” and I don’t want the story to answer that question for me, I want to be presented with the evidence and decide for myself. Do the ends justify the means narratives are only interesting as questions, not answers, imo.
so idk basically my response is yeah maybe some kind of tragedy will come to demonstrate that falconia was a doomed venture from the start, and/or that wanting to create a place without exploitation is an inherently flawed or immature desire, but if that happens i will be unimpressed lol. If falconia does end up being destroyed, ideally for me there would be negative consequences to that too, because there are no easy black and whites in Berserk (or there shouldn’t be.)
and like, the whole thematic connection to child abuse could be coincidental, but facts are that falconia is explicitly a place where the strong aren’t given free rein to exploit the weak, and our central and most emotionally resonant examples of strong given free rein to exploit the weak are the nobleman who bought casca, donovan, and gennon. Plus the apt Lost Children parallel. so if miura didn’t intend this he shouldn’t’ve filled berserk so full of thematically on the nose depressing backstories lol.
I like that we get Griffith’s monologue just one chapter before Guts starts to put it all together for himself, neatly referencing the same moments, and nearly coming to the same conclusion.
Yeah I think this is a pretty common conception of Griffith tbh. I’m not sure exactly why you feel this way, but I’ve seen lots of people taking it as read that he’s like, power-obsessed, or a control freak, and that impacts how they see his character.
But I don’t see that at all tbh. I’m going to like, rly briefly summarize how I feel, bc I have a lot of long versions that expand on these points (eg here and here and ofc here if you want the nearly thesis length take lol) if you want more explanation.
Basically Griffith wants power for a reason. He doesn’t want power for the sake of power, he wants power to achieve a goal, a goal that he feels he needs to achieve because of guilt.
A significant aspect of Griffith’s narrative is about how being a leader, being responsible for lives, being distant from everyone who follows him so he can maintain an image, etc, is a burden that takes a huge emotional toll on him.
Griffith is kind of trapped in this paradigm of control and being controlled. He has to be in control for the sake of his dream, in control of himself, in control of others as a leader, but again like, a big point of his narrative is that it’s a burden on him, and at least subconsciously, he wants out. Being a leader who always has to portray the correct image isolates him, being responsible for lives lost fills him with guilt, and he’s stuck because his entire sense of worth revolves around achieving his dream.
And by being controlled I’m referring to the way fate absolves him of guilt, and how he learns it was his destiny and everything he’s ever done was puppeteered by God and he’s nothing more than a pawn, etc. This holds true even as Femto and NeoGriffith, kind of ironically – at his most powerful he is aware that he has no control at all. Like, most of NeoGriffith’s apparent powers seem to be just this intrinsic knowledge that whatever he wants to do is what he’s destined to do, and therefore he can’t be harmed or stopped or prevented from doing what he wants.
(There’s probably also something to be said about Griffith’s powerlessness post-torture, but idk that basically boils down to Griffith still being responsible for that mountain of corpses, but not having the power to follow through and justify it. control vs no power, vs say ngriff’s power but no control. idk this is too long already lol, vague musing on that is enough for now.)
Umm okay to get back to my point, basically imo Griffith is kind of pushed and pulled between the burden of having too much control and the paradoxical freedom of having no control, and his desire for an equal seems to me to be like, an escape from these two extremes. Someone whose life he doesn’t control, who pursues their own reason for being, who Griffith can’t order to their death, who Griffith doesn’t have to wear a mask for – and someone who would fight him if their dreams ever clashed. Valuable as a friend and as an enemy as someone independent of him, who he has no power over and who has no power over him – or who they each have an equal amount of emotional power over.
Lol okay this was all very theme-y rather than based on characterization. So as for like, actual depictions of Griffith wanting Guts as an equal, you have moments like asking him to kill Julius rather than ordering him, the water fight, “it’s funny… you’re the first person I’ve ever spoken to like this” after explaining his thoughts on fate and wanting to know what he’s destined for, “do you think that I’m cruel?”, refusing to rein him in during battle to Casca’s consternation, reminiscing fondly on the duel he almost lost, risking his life and dream for Guts, basically his emotional dependence on him in general.
And wrt his tantrum when Guts leaves, often cited as Griffith’s control-freakiness at work lol, it’s actually another instance of Griffith wanting Guts as an equal, but compilcated by knowing that the reality of their relationship is that Griffith is Guts’ boss, and moreover, he won his loyalty in a fight. He has a breakdown because he sees Guts leaving as a rejection and a statement on their entire relationship – he thinks Guts only stayed with him because Griffith won that duel, and it horrifies him and affirms his belief that he’s cruel, but also narrows his options down to “let him go or win him in another duel” lol, when what he actually wants is for Guts to choose to stay because he wants to stay. (Again, I’ve written about this at great length here if you want more evidence for this reading.)
so that wasn’t as short as I was hoping it would be lmao. But yeah basically the way I see Griffith is that being in control is a burden to him, and he wants an equal/friend because he wants someone whose life he doesn’t control to know him and freely choose him, not as a figurehead but as a person. And he wanted that someone to be Guts.
I’ve probably touched on it before but hell if I can remember where or
how much lol, and I like talking about this so I’ll totally share my
thoughts here.
I think the main reason, which I generally come back to, is because Guts doesn’t treat Griffith with the same awe and reverence the rest of the Hawks tend to treat him with.
Their relationship is very wrapped up in power dynamics – Guts joining the Hawks after losing a duel to him, Guts feeling inadequate after Promrose, Griffith stuck on a pedestal wanting someone to share in the aspects of his rise to power that he feels he has to keep hidden from the rest of the Hawks, Griffith proclaiming none of the Hawks are his friends because they aren’t his equals, “how long ago did someone I was supposed to have in hand… instead gain such a strong hold on me?”, Guts internally waxing poetic about how untouchable and perfect Griffith is until remembering moments where Griffith was extremely vulnerable w/ him, etc etc.
This is a moment when they both felt like they were equals. “Now we’re even.” Just two kids having a water fight.
Griffith distances himself shortly after this with his speech about his dream, but I feel like it kind of encapsulates them. There are all these artificial power dynamics standing in their way – leader/soldier, dude with a dream/dude without a dream, griffith trying to maintain an image/guts buying into that image after overhearing the Promrose speech – but at their core they’re just two people who have a strong connection.
This shows through when Guts treats Griffith’s orders as suggestions and gets chewed out by Casca, when Griffith asks him to assassinate Julius like a favour rather than an order, when Griffith risks his life and dream for Guts, when Griffith asks if Guts thinks he’s cruel, when Guts says Griffith can take off the mask since it’s just the two of them, etc. All these little glimpses of equality that can never last – and every time they fall by the wayside in favour of reinforcing the power dynamics, it leads to tragedy.
Like
But someone has to win the duel they insist on fighting.
lol I think I kinda veered off topic. But basically Guts is the one person who comes closest to treating Griffith as a person rather than a figurehead, and this marks their relationship as different, and brings them closer than Griffith is with anyone else. It’s why Guts is the person Griffith chooses to help assassinate people. You can even see this in Guts’ decision to leave – Casca hears the speech too and pretty much resigns herself to playing second fiddle, but Guts decides to do whatever it takes to become Griffith’s equal, misguided as his reasoning was.
Yk, rather than upholding the artificial dream criteria of equality, ignore it and recognize that it’s just getting in the way of actual equality.
Buuuut that explains like, why Griffith came to rely so heavily on Guts, and let him be the only person to see underneath the mask of perfection. It doesn’t explain why he was so drawn to Guts in the first place, or why he risked his life to save him the very first time, after only knowing him like a week.
Honestly idk lol. I think this was partially meant to be a little ironic, coming right after the Black Swordsman arc – showing that what fascinates Griffith about Guts is exactly those qualities Guts embodies to an extreme extent as the Black Swordsman, and which Femto claimed to have no interest in.
Overall I think it’s definitely the case that Griffith is enamoured of these traits of Guts’ – his stubbornness, his willingness to do anything to win, the way he faces danger head on, etc. I’m not entirely sure what that says about Griffith though, or even if it’s intended to reflect on Griffith’s character beyond that irony of how Guts is at his most “interesting” by this criteria when he’s Griffith’s enemy.
Though…
I wonder if it still kind of comes back to that equality.
The fight Griffith reminisces fondly about is the one where he got punched in the face and nearly lost because the other dude bit his fucking sword and pushed him off a hill lol.
Like it kind of comes down to Griffith being knocked off his pedestal, and Guts having the ability to do that?
Ooooh and that makes the second duel really interesting. Guts is the only person Griffith has lost a fight to, and that maybe straight up symbolizes his love. Like Guts walked away after demonstrating exactly what Griffith loves most about him.
Idk lol this has kind of devolved into me just like musing outloud, sorry.
And actually I do know I talked about the whole equality thing more here (this is the 2nd part of a very long analysis lol) if you feel like reading more of my thoughts on that lol. I kind of want to sit down and think about how the duels and Guts’ “struggler” thing fit in more now lol.
Anyway ty for the question and comments, and I hope you had a lovely day when you sent this lol, and are having another lovely day now!
I love the Golden Age as a continuation of the Black Swordsman arc so much. Guts taken aback by Griffith’s interest in him when they first meet vs Guts absolutely fuming from Femto professing a lack of interest.
i can’t believe i’ve written multiple long posts about casca and guts trying to replace griffith with each other and i never noticed that visual parallel when they each save her til now
like i’ve been v vocally back and forth on whether casca becoming guts “sword” is intentionally negative or meant to be seen as a positive symbol of moving on from griffith, and noticing that last panel just put me way more firmly on the “negative” side lol
parallels
I’m gonna block you, which is why I capped this message instead of responding directly, but I do actually want to take a sec and answer your questions first lol, because hey it’s an excuse to talk about this shit, responding to these basic attempts at takedowns can occasionally be useful as validation for other shippers lol, and the first one is actually kinda worth discussing.
first question
Guts and Griffith both ended up opening up to Casca about their respective traumas because she happened to be there at a point when they were both particularly vulnerable.
Guts didn’t sit down with Casca and consciously decide to tell her his life story, Guts had a violent flashback during sex, strangled Casca, and then rambled about his childhood in a daze while hardly even noticing she was in front of him until she touched him and he jumped and realized what he’d just said and done.
If he’d been hitting Griffith from behind instead of Casca the exact same thing probably would’ve happened.
And if Guts had been around back then and happened upon Griffith in the river after seeing him with Gennon the previous night, the exact same thing probably would’ve happened then too, give or take Guts’ response to the “am I dirty” question.
And neither of these dudes would’ve brought these subjects up without a catalyst to anyone, including each other. Griffith because he’s repressed about it, and Guts because it wouldn’t even occur to him as something worth sharing until he’s mid-flashback.
And Griffith did have an equivalent conversation with Guts, when he asked, “do you think that I’m cruel?” That also had a catalyst, ie, they just carried out some assassinations together, but it was just as vulnerable and intimate a question as Griffith’s “am I dirty?” to Casca.
So basically the answer is: just because Guts has never had a flashback in front of Griffith doesn’t mean he’s not comfortable with him.
second question
well for a start, here are a few:
Also the entirety of the Count’s backstory in chapter 7. And a bunch of panels I skipped because I’m lazy and I’ve already posted a million collections of Gay Berserk Moments.
third question
he hasn’t chosen to sleep with a man bc a) trauma, b) he doesn’t even consciously recognize his own feelings for griffith, his subconscious beast of darkness is the one telling him he’s longing for him etc, c) even if he did figure it out during the golden age he doesn’t think he’s worthy of griffith lol there’s a whole arc about that, d) he’s only had sex twice in his life give him a chance, e) most relevantly, he’s the protagonist of a story in a seinen mag written by and for presumably hetero men.
@a-girl-named-chester I’m not reblogging that post to talk about it because I thoroughly disagree with the op and I don’t want to start shit lol
but basically I am constantly low-key irritated at people who conflate femininity (a set of traits that any given society encourages women to adopt and discourages men from adopting) with women and therefore call anyone exasperated with compulsory femininity and/or fictional portrayals of femininity (especially those written by men lbr) misogynist.
Casca isn’t a real person, she doesn’t have her own opinions on what she wants to wear, those are given to her by the man writing her character, and I personally hate how Miura goes to great lengths to feminize Casca once she becomes a viable romantic interest for Guts – by putting her in a dress and literally having her ask Guts to validate her attractiveness, but also by things like this:
and by depowering her through her period of all things so Guts can save her, and by having her try to kill herself because of unrequited love so Guts can save her again, and by having her feel fulfilled when she is able to take the role of nurturer and (sexually) comfort someone else, all culminating in turning her into a helpless long haired childlike waif in a dress after being raped to make Guts feel bad and give him someone to protect.
Like, Miura plays lipservice to Casca as a Strong Woman lol, but he never follows through. We hear that she can beat ten men, but we see her feverish and at the brink of exhaustion needing to be saved more often than we’ve ever seen that.
I don’t even necessarily mind moments like Casca feeling insecure about how she looks in a dress, like it’s fine as a character trait and I think it makes sense that Casca might be self-conscious, but it goes hand in hand with things like Casca “showing a soft side” to hamfistedly indicate her burgeoning feelings for Guts, so it’s impossible to separate moments like Casca asking Guts if she looks okay in a dress from Miura deliberately making Casca more feminine as she becomes a love interest.
And that sucks, and is itself deeply misogynist, so I can’t with anyone saying that people who are disappointed at seeing Casca put into a dress (as she herself protests) in the most recent chapter are misogynist lol.
Like we’re not even deriding a real woman putting on a dress, we’re deriding a male writer putting a female character in a dress explicitly to make a reunion feel more romantic. Because who cares that she’s a mercenary who doesn’t feel comfortable in dresses, as a love interest she needs to be appropriately feminine to complement Guts’ rugged masculinity. Gag.
I mean personally I’m actually reserving judgement on this scene in particular because I think(/hope/pray/oh my god do i pray) this is going to end up being sinister and not actually romantic lol. But god if it is played straight, fuckin yikes.
There’s nothing progressive or worth celebrating about a dude writing a romance between a man and a woman and consistently and overtly making sure the woman’s masculine traits are offset by heaping on more femininity.
Oh man I’ve been harping on about Casca using the behelit for a while now, and that’s still my hope.
I think it’s actually relatively plausible as of the most recent chapter (I laid out a theory here) but what I’m less certain about is whether she’ll actually make a sacrifice and go apostle. That’s what I’m gunning for, but I think there’s also a good chance that either a) she’ll be talked down thru the power of love and friendship and I’ll be very disappointed, or b) Skull Knight will put his plan into action before she even gets a chance to decide and “conveniently” cut things short.
Never even considered Charlotte as a possibility. I think it’s unlikely since first she’d have to get the behelit, and her and Guts’ storylines haven’t intersected since the rescue mission. Plus her sacrifice would inevitably have to be NGriff, and NGriff being a sacrifice would be super interesting but if anyone’s gonna sacrifice him I want it to be Guts.
guts gets so deep sometimes and i love it bc its usually only in reference to griffith and it exposes how thoughtful he really is…. in some of their conversations guts does most of the talking and griffith just listens enraptured bc he loves guts sm
bonus if guts eventually reaches out while talking to tuck a loose strand of hair behind griffs ear… dare i say uh gay?
it’s so true. guts is actually really self-reflective for like… a manly dude protag imo lol, he contemplates his emotions a lot, and pretty much always wrt griffith. like that monologue to judeau and corkus about how dazzling he is? guts having second thoughts after leaving griffith and wondering if he’s leaving something irreplacable behind? guts dedicating his sword to him on that rooftop? 15 yr old guts thinking about how ridic it is for griffith to try getting his own kingdom but deciding that ‘for now…’? guts having an existential crisis during the 100 man fight? the campfire of dreams convo? etc etc etc.
i’m trying to think of examples where he’s sitting around sorting thru his feelings and griffith isn’t involved. and my memory for moments that don’t relate to griffith is admittedly bad, but i can hardly think of anything. maybe some of his cynical religious commentary during the conviction arc. he’s got a few about casca, eg montage monologue about how hard it’s been to travel with her, thinking about how “this shell of who you used to be” reminds him of the good old days, thinking it’s better for farnese to “save” her because guts would only hurt her… but griffith tends to pop up in most of his contemplative moments, including the casca related ones.
also yes. guts gently tucking a strand of hair behind griffith’s ear = high tier content. actually can i just take a sec and be like
this could’ve happened if the king hadn’t interrupted their moment. they got the romantic breeze blowing and everything.
hooo boy ok long story short, it’s a coping mechanism. I personally think it’s likely it started out as childish whimsy, and when people started dying to achieve it (he became a mercenary leader when he was still a kid) it became an absolutely necessary goal because those deaths would only be justified if he achieved it.
I also think it’s possible that it just straight up started out as a coping mechanism, a dream of a paradise where he has the power to make whatever changes he wants to the world, to fix whatever plagued him as a child – poverty, nobles abusing their power, lives being bought and sold, whatever. Either way, the guilt as motivation came afterwards, and then consumed him.
It’s all there in his monologue to Casca in the river. I think Miura actually did a great job of fleshing his dream out, but it is largely between the lines, rarely outright stated.
like here we learn that people dying for money, on the whims of those more powerful than them, bothers him:
Here we find out that he has let himself be bought and sold for the sake of saving as many lives as he could, showing us that he has a personal stake in why people’s lives being treated as commodities and subject to the whims of nobility bothers him:
Here we find out that he feels like he has to achieve his dream for the sake of the dead:
Here we see the kingdom directly depicted as an escape from the darkness of the real world:
Here we find out that he wanted to do something, change something, with the power of the throne (the monster is war):
And knowing what we know about Griffith’s feelings of guilt, his disgust at nobility, and what Falconia ends up looking like, it’s reasonable to conclude that he wanted to have the power to carve out a place where people aren’t exploited by those more powerful than them.
And, as an aside, it’s largely talked about in a selfish and dark way because Griffith himself denies this deeper meaning. It’s personal, it’s vulnerable, it doesn’t fit the image of the perfect leader of the Hawks, and therefore we only see glimpses of how he really feels in his more vulnerable moments. He frames it to himself as just something he wants just for the sake of wanting something, because it’s noble to have a goal, but we’re shown enough glimpses through that misleading and shallow explanation to figure out the truth – that it’s a coping mechanism born out of guilt with a side of a deep-seated desire for a safe place where people are treated equally.
If you want the long version, I wrote this a little while ago:
someone keep men away from casca
like i know hes a gruff guy but this
isnt sweet or romantic its weird and their whole relationship was
pathetic
mood
but honestly tho guts isn’t even a gruff asshole in general (during the golden age b4 he went black swordsman), just mainly with casca.
like not to be so obviously on my gay shit but his interactions with griffith are always respectful, tender, protective, thoughtful, etc. I think he calls him an idiot twice, once while telling him to save his own life, once to diffuse tension in an attempt to reassure him. whereas even after he and casca bond he still belittles and insults her (remember when he went on a misogynist tirade about how women suck to ~inspire her~ to keep going on their trek back to the hawks and we were supposed to think it was sweet lmfao) and treats her as an accessory.
like to compare:
he finds griffith after being tortured for a year, weak, helpless, not at all what he was expecting, no longer the strong independant man guts respected, and he cries over him and cradles him and then goes on a rampage to rescue him. he deliberately takes pains to treat him the same as he used to, talks with him like nothing’s changed, and decides to forgo his “dream” to stay and take care of him.
he finds casca after she was traumatized into insanity, helpless, not at all the person he was expecting, no longer the strong independent woman guts respected, and he yells at her to snap out of it, forcefully grabs her twice after she flinched from his first attempt to touch her until she literally bites him to get away, terrifies her, then leaves her in a cave for two years.
(and this is a dude who has been raped and couldn’t stand to be touched for years afterwards, you’d think he’d have a bit of empathy, and yet)
When guts invites casca to go with him he doesnt have a dream yet at that point, he was just chillin at godo’s the whole year training, when he invites casca to go with him, he invites her to the journey of searching a purpose to live. They could search for that dream… together.. at least that’s what i think
yk that does sound pretty nice and a lot more inspiring and romantic, but guts invites casca after a long monologue explaining that he found his dream – fighting stronger and stronger enemies and becoming the best.
and moreover, this is how he invites her (after, i want to add, grabbing her tit while she’s yelling at him, but I don’t want to post an image of that bc it’s awful):
you should come with me as long as you don’t get in the way of what i want to do, because i want to have more sex.
shit you know what else would’ve been a really good moral grey moment if it was focused on? griffith having the bandits he hired to kidnap foss’ daughter killed.
like, he had to do that because they would’ve been a risky loose end otherwise, it genuinely was part of the path to his dream, and he left their money on their corpses out of guilt, but that is like, a perfect symbol of treating lives as commodities.
but it wasn’t even the focus of griffith asking guts if he’s cruel! the focus was on getting guts to help him kill people, not essentially hiring people to die for him, which we know is the source of like all his guilt. miura even mitigated that for some reason by having the bandits go ‘ho ho ho we’re shitty people who will totally blackmail griffith at some point’ before guts kills them lol.
but yk even griffith just being a mercenary leader is an interesting moral grey. the path to his dream, paved with corpses of people he hired to fight and die for him.
god it’s so good! he wants to have his own kingdom to change the inherently predatory social order that he himself uses as a tool to get his kingdom.
this kind of moral dilemma is what i’m about.
It sucks that Casca is reduced to support for other people’s dreams at the same time Guts is absolutely determined to achieve a dream so he can be Griffith’s equal.
Like Guts inviting her along. It kind of randomly occurred to me that he would never have in a million years invited Griffith along on the road to his dream lol, because that would’ve defeated the entire purpose. Guts adopted Griffith’s view of equality as having an obsessive dream. Guts hugely respects Griffith’s dream and would never try to sway him or stand in his way. Guts wants to be like Griffith in that way and feel as though he has something as respectable to shoot for himself.
Casca? Guts never even begins to conceive of her as a potential equal.
Casca tries to kill herself because the strain of supporting the dream of someone who doesn’t love her and might not even be alive is too much, and instead of say, encouraging her to find a dream and live for herself, since it’s working so great for him and at this point Guts genuinely believes that having your own dream is the pinnacle of existence, Guts encourages her to come along on his journey and support his dream instead.
And while Berserk is overall kind of like, dream-negative lol, bc the whole achieving a dream to be Griffith’s equal thing was misguided from the start, Guts’ priorities are still all about Griffith – leaving to be his equal, or realizing that it was misguided and choosing to stay, both for Griffith.
And I mean, I like that Berserk blatantly devalues het romance compared to homoerotic + thematically resonant relationships between dudes, obviously lol, but it pisses me off that Casca’s character gets fucked over and over and over again because of it, because her character revolves around that devalued romance.
Like, basically the concept of pursuing a dream to feel like your bff’s equal is depicted as negative, but Guts inviting Casca along on his dream journey is never questioned by the narrative – it’s just assumed that Casca, as the romantic object of affection, defaults to playing support while the men are obsessed with the idea of equality and power dynamics. I’d like to believe this is also intentionally shown to be negative, but like, I don’t really think it is, I don’t think Miura really questioned this.
Like I think it’s a little ridiculous that the Count got a chance to make two sacrifices, and it’s probably a case of early installment weirdness bc I don’t think that actually makes sense wrt what we know about how sacrifices work (like what was going to happen if the Count did sacrifice Theresia? He’s already one of the more powerful apostles we’ve seen)
But I do think it’s definitely meaningful that the Count falls into despair, and not just an accidental contradiction lol. The further on we go the more depth apostles get, from pure evil snakeman to three dimensional count who still has loved ones to sympathetic rosine to zodd and irvine getting the same thematic inner beast vs man stuff guts gets.
Not to mention Femto letting Guts escape, and lbr I know we’re all hoping this is going to come full circle wrt NeoGriffith.
This is about Falconia, bodies and lives being bought and sold, the natural order of the world, etc.
tw for csa (no graphic panels but still disturbing enough for a cut imo)
The Conviction Arc shows us in broadstrokes the world humanity’s collective unconscious wants to overturn through starving crowds, dungeons filled with tortured ‘heretics,’ rampant plague and the desire for a saviour, and nobles terrorizing peasants using god as an excuse, but this is the up close and personal version. Lives and bodies as commodities, weak trampled by the strong, poor ruled by the rich, and everyone accepting it as the way things are.
Our three main protagonists during the Golden Age all have very personal formative trauma that revolves around being bought and sold as a matter of course.
And Griffith’s dream, as someone wracked with guilt for lives lost in his battles, someone who has sold himself to a rich and powerful predator to save some of those lives, is to overturn this natural order of things.
And he does. Falconia is a place where children aren’t sold as sex slaves, where the powerful do not oppress the weak, where the rich don’t exploit the poor, where everyone is treated equally and with dignity, where Guts, Griffith, and Casca could’ve all had happy childhoods.
One of the important aspects of this theme re: societal power dynamics and exploitation is that these evil actions
are excused away. This is true of like, just about every abuser of power and
rapist in Berserk. Some think it’s okay because someone more powerful than
them told them they’re allowed (torturer, Wyald/probably the rest of
the apostles, Mozgus’ torturers, Mozgus and the inquisition in general
passing the buck onto God, Donovan because Gambino allowed it, etc),
some think it’s okay because that’s just the way things are (Donovan
again, Adon, Rosine’s got some of this, etc), some think it’s okay because
they’re powerful enough to do anything they want (implied with Gennon,
Ganeshka,
the Godhand, a lot of apostles, Casca’s attempted rapist nobleman), and finally some think it’s okay because the world wronged them (Gambino, apostles like Rosine again and Eggman, Jill’s dad, the baby eating heretics lmao, one could argue the King, Mozgus’ torturers again, etc).
Again, it all comes back to the “reason of the world,” the natural order of things that NeoGriff overturns. In the ordinary world these people with power can do whatever they want and justify it to themselves. In NeoGriffith’s world, they don’t. Apostles, our prime example of powerful preying on weak because they’re allowed to, no longer prey on humans, simply because of NeoGriffith’s existence.
It seems safe to assume nobles no longer exploit people either, if nobility is even still a thing in Falconia. Like granted, I’m taking some of this as read based on what we’re told Falconia is, but I feel like the apostles (and the explicit focus on equality) are a good representative example of the point of Falconia, which is to essentially fix everything we see wrong with the world in the Conviction arc and, like I laid out above, in our protagonists’ lives.
The fact is that Falconia isn’t just a utopia on a distant macro level, where the readers can look at it and go, hm seems nice I guess but w/e. On a micro level it’s a place where these horrible things that happened to the characters we personally love and care about wouldn’t’ve happened. I, at least, am emotionally invested in that utopia because of this, yk?
But here’s where I get critical of the portrayal:
Femto and the Eclipse rape is the epitome of the harmful power structure. Like, Femto hits every branch on his way down this tree lol. During his transformation he met God, God absolved him of his guilt and responsibility by telling him he can do whatever the fuck he wants and it’ll be the right thing. He’s taking the place of the nobleman he saved Casca from and exemplifying existing power structures of strong preying on weak, and it’s petty revenge.
One can easily argue that the Eclipse rape is a distillation of every abusive power structure in Berserk.
So okay, you have Falconia, a utopia that exists to eschew these power structures and create a place of equality where no one is exploited, created by a dude whose defining act is the epitome of these abusive power structures.
And frankly it’s fucking pointless. This feels like the shallowest of shallow hot takes lol. Like, oooh what if this wonderful place where all the horrible things that traumatized our favourite characters are no longer an accepted given was created by an evil demon rapist???
Like… okay? And then what? The Eclipse rape has nothing to do with the social structure of Falconia, NGriff seems to have completely delivered on his/humanity’s dream regardless, he is now the higher power making the calls and he hasn’t told everyone to do whatever they want no matter who it hurts. From what we’ve seen he’s done the exact opposite, existing as a tempering influence on the apostles who no longer prey on those weaker than them, ending the Holy See’s reign of terror, ending wars in general, and uniting people in their differences.
So it’s just like, an arbitrary evil act which creates an artificial sense of moral greyness. It has no deep meaning. I mean I suppose Miura could address it in the future – I’ve mentioned that I think it could theoretically be really interesting for Casca to visit Falconia and see the dream she devoted her life to having come to fruition because of her rapist. But even so, that doesn’t have any like… deeper intrigue. That’s interesting for Casca’s character, not as an examination of moral relativity or w/e.
Similarly, if NeoGriffith turns out to be more human than he looks he could reflect on this contradiction in a potentially interesting way.
But I can’t think of a way to make it an interesting examination of morality. It’s boring at its core imo. I mean you could argue that it’s still worthwhile on that personal character level, but let’s be real here – no amount of potentially interesting character stuff in Casca’s future is worth removing her from the story for 20 years, and anything w/ NeoGriffith would be a retread of human Griffith’s guilt issues and frankly I don’t see it happening anyway lol.
So yeah ultimately this whole egalitarian utopia created by a rapist demon thing just does not work for me at all. There’s no reason the creator of this paradise /had/ to be a symbol of this abusive power structure it exists to destroy, again, that’s just an arbitrary happenstance, not a pre-requisite to utopia building, so it doesn’t say anything about the nature of Falconia. It doesn’t say anything about utopias in general, it doesn’t say anything about those power structures that we don’t already know (ie they bad, equality good).
It’s like, fake deep tbqh.
The actual interesting and morally grey aspect of Falconia is the way world peace was achieved by setting a bunch of fantasy monsters loose on humanity, and that has nothing to do with the Eclipse rape. Like, that’s literally all you need for the moral complexity. We have world peace and a growing utopia that everyone is welcome to join, but the price is monsters everywhere, and this could not have happened without those monsters to unite humanity in fear. Is the world better or worse than it used to be?
And NGriff being a rapist, or his demon alter ego being a rapist, or whatever the deal is there, adds nothing to that question, rather, it distracts from it and devalues the actual moral ambiguity.
In fact, it makes me wonder whether Miura regrets going with rape as his way of demonstrating Femto’s evil. Because it’s been such a non-issue to the whole theme of power structures, utopias, equality, etc, that it feels like Miura is sweeping it under the rug lol – it’s less of an attempt at dark irony and more the elephant in the room. I can’t even say with confidence that Femto was intended to be a symbol of exploitative power structures, despite how obvious it seems, because it just… hasn’t impacted the themes of the story at all.
these people just think that everything griffith is doing is all part of some evil master plan to end the world or ruin humanity or whatever even though hes never had any motivation of incentive to do such
that being said, it
definitely puts more of a stake in how they view guts fight lol? even if
they are ignoring literally everything else the story has told us and
rational common sense that a sudden reveal in the plot that griffith is
actually Evil (like. evil in the big bad villain way) would be
satisfying.
you mean wouldn’t be satisfying, right? bc yeah v true lol
it wouldn’t even be a reveal (we all saw the eclipse), it would just be a bizarre, tonally fucked up back and forth… weird thing. well, moreso than griffith’s narrative already is lol
like we get moments like this during the millenium falcon arc:
it’s just not framed as a tense bad vibey moment w/ an evil dude manipulating a bunch of poor innocent people so he can get a kingdom, it’s framed as ‘lol fuck you noble assholes, griffith’s back and this time he’s getting his utopia, high five’
like do other people basically read a scene like this with sinister horror movie music playing in the background?
i mean i completely get if (general) you can’t ignore the eclipse rape in your perception of the story, but i feel like if you can’t do that, then your berserk is fundamentally at odds with miura’s berserk, since he has diligently ignored it throughout the entirety of neogriffith’s narrative, without a single fuck given for the kind of awkward tonal pall it casts over everything.
i wonder what it’s like to read neogriffith’s narrative thru the lens of guts = good griffith = evil
bc one notable thing about how miura has been writing griffith’s side of the story since he was resurrected is that ngriff is treated as the protagonist – a distant, unemotional protagonist to be sure, we’re never in his head or anything, but still a protagonist
like that’s how the story is structured and beated. griffith’s allies are all interesting and sympathetic and three dimensional; griffith’s triumphs are treated as such, his enemy gets a chapter of sympathetic backstory but is undoubtedly the antagonist. griffith striding in and intimidating ganeshka into turning his army away is good, ganeshka leveling up and becoming an eldrich horror is bad, the human soldiers going “oh shit the war demons are all monsters what the fuck” is a tense moment and sonia telling them to stfu and just get along relieves that tension, etc.
like it’s no coincidence that we see flora’s assassination as part of guts’ side of the story, because it’s a darker moment and seeing it thru guts’ eyes allows miura to depict it as such. if we saw it thru griffith’s narrative it would’ve looked more akin to griffith and guts assassinating the queen back in the golden age.
and also it makes the second time their narratives intersect, on the docks when guts and zodd team up to fight ganeshka, very… interesting as a contrast to the fight outside flora’s house. enemies to reluctant allies.
anyway yeah basically i feel like ngriff’s millenium falcon narrative would read like, in a very bizarre way if you’re not going along with treating him as a protagonist during it. like, tonally it would be nonsensical and probably very frustrating.
i love the detail of guts’ eye dripping blood here
it’s a symbol of despair that’s rly effective in illustrating guts’ feelings here (moreso than the run imho lol) despite not actually having any literal correlation to his emotions – yk bc it’s reminiscent of griffith crying blood after the behelit opened – and it’s gr8 that it comes right after that last memory of griffith.
it’s like a little mirror. each the source of the others’ despair.
Man takes up the sword in order to shield the small wound in his heart sustained in a far-off time beyond remembrance.
While I agree that leaving behind the Hawks/his family in pursuit of proving his “worthiness” was misguided, I’m hesitant to call it a “mistake.” Living (and dying) as an accessory solely for the benefit of someone else isn’t particularly good or healthy.
I’d agree if Guts’ life with the Hawks was ever framed as “living and dying as an accessory solely for the benefit of someone else,” but it isn’t.
I assume you’re referencing this:
Which is Griffith’s answer when Guts asks why Griffith risked his life to save him.
Basically Griffith denying any emotional investment in Guts by emphasizing his role as a military leader who sends people to their deaths regularly.
Guts calls him out on basically lying here three years later, in the post-Zodd conversation.
So yeah, while this is nice foreshadowing for the Eclipse, it’s explicitly not how Griffith actually feels wrt Guts, and Guts figures that out.
Guts was never just an accessory to Griffith’s dream, and there was a point where Guts knew that perfectly well, before the overheard Promrose Hall speech fucked it all up lol.
And just to add a few more things:
even if Griffith really did see Guts as just another soldier who could help him achieve his dream, I don’t think it would necessarily be unhealthy for Guts to stay with the Hawks. Being a mercenary is a line of work, and being a mercenary with the Hawks is a line of work with much greater rewards, much greater camraderie and friendship, and a greater sense of purpose than being a mercenary with any other band. Guts comments early on about how the Hawks are different than any other mercenary band he’s fought with because they’re happier, because they have a personal stake in Griffith’s dream.
Guts doesn’t particularly care about being raised into the peerage, or even about the idea of Griffith becoming a King beyond thinking Griffith is “absolutely incredible” for having such a lofty dream and actually getting close to achieving it, but he does care about his friends, and during the three years in which he presumably felt like he was mainly just doing a job, he was happier than he’s ever been before or since.
So imo it would still be the case that Guts would find greater personal fulfillment in a mercenary band full of happy people who love him as a friend and respect him as a leader, rather than wandering around alone crossing swords with anyone who looks strong – specifically, it’s implied in a flashback during the Wyald fight, monsters like Zodd:
Again, it’s another little piece of sad irony, knowing how Guts spent two years after the Eclipse.
And lol I know this response is getting long, sorry, but w/e I love talking about this shit so one more last little thing:
Griffith also doesn’t see any of the Hawks as just accessories to his dream, let alone Guts. He cares about the Hawks more than probably any other mercenary leader.
I mean this is a dude who prostituted himself to a pedophile to prevent
as many deaths in the line of duty as possible, and self-harmed in a
river while monologuing about how he has to win for the sake of the men
who’ve died for his dream.
He represses the hell out of his guilt and emotional attachment to them, because they die a lot and if he didn’t he’d be a wreck, but the very fact that he could offer them up as sacrifices means they were all extremely important to him:
you're the only one 