you're the only one

good-ol-fashion-robrae:

bthump:

good-ol-fashion-robrae:

jillresia:

good-ol-fashion-robrae:

jillresia:

good-ol-fashion-robrae:

@phydia63 I agree that Casca would be sex repulsed. I don’t want her to have sex again either, that wouldn’t be right. I’m just saying that she wouldn’t be terrified of men, and that she would be happy to see Guts again. If she ever tries to have sex again, Miura should do what he’s been doing for her and what he did for Guts: Have her freak out at the bad memories and stop the act from happening.

Edit: If Casca was going to be afraid of men, she wouldn’t have had sex with Guts in the first place after the multiple times people try to rape her in the Golden Age.

The Beast of Darkness is a part of Guts, but you have to keep in mind that Guts was already unstable. And by that I mean up until he met Griffith, Casca, and the others, he was a violent person and couldn’t trust others for a lot of good reasons. So being betrayed by someone he thought he could trust, AGAIN (referencing Gambino here), losing the girl he loved, then fighting and losing to Griffith on the Hill of Swords gives a very good reason for the Beast of Darkness to exist.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not to trying to apologize for Guts biting Casca, but my point is that he was already fucked up and getting possessed after failing to kill Griffith creates more forgivable circumstances than if Guts had just seen Casca naked and attempted to rape her. 

That’s the main issue I have when people cite Guts “assaulting” Casca as a reason they shouldn’t be together/try to argue that Guts is a terrible person. They twist it into something its not and fail to grasp the deeper meaning of the situation.

“Griffguts shippers are nasty and trivialize rape but heres a bunch of paragraphs why guts and casca NEED TO FUCK even tho he assaulted her twice. He wasnt in his right mind so its forgivable, much unlike when griffith was physically and mentally tortured for a solid year and then psychically manipulated by the devil”

Literally the second line is me saying they should haven’t sex

right right, sorry i used vague wording. in my friendgroup “fuck” is a word that refers to any kind of romantic or sexual attachment between people. what you really said is that casca should be happy to see a man who pinned her down and forced himself on her twice when she was at the weakest shed ever been. if casca doesnt enjoy the company of a man who abandoned her in a cave for two years and then tied her up and dragged her around like a dog when he did return it just wont make senze

I just got done arguing with someone that he doesn’t pin her down and attempt (emphasis on attempt) to rape her because Guts is a rapist.

Guts was under the influence of the Beast, which was brought about by him getting possessed by Demons. Read the whole argument here.

And as far as the cave goes, what was he supposed to do? Casca was insane and branded, and the Skull Knight told him that as long as the sun was down, Demons would be coming for them. The only logical thing to do was put her in a safe place where she wouldn’t get attacked by demons while she couldn’t defend herself.

I don’t know why I’m arguing with you. You’re yet another one of those people who thinks that Guts almost (emphasis on almost) raping Casca while he’s inner beast goads him for failing to kill Griffith and immediately feeling guilt for almost (emphasis on almost) forcing himself on her is the same thing as him sadistically raping her for the sheer pleasure of it.

Getting real tired of waking up to see people trying to start shit on my dash.

Guts sexually assaulted Casca. Say it’s not as bad as Femto sexually assaulting her all you want, create a big scale of totally-excusable to horrific incidences of fictional rape if you want, the fact remains that Guts sexually assaulted her and now she’s afraid of him, and that’s the case regardless of what Femto did, so I don’t know why you insist on comparing them to try to justify Guts’ actions.

Also what Guts was “supposed to do,” which was pointed out to him by Godo and Erica and Rickert, was stay with Casca in the cave and turn it into a home, and deal with his feelings instead of going on a pointless rampage of revenge.

I’m glad you linked that post you wrote because I don’t want to reblog it to refute it, since I don’t put images of sexual assault on my blog without a readmore. So, refution for the linked post:

You are wrong. Between Guts’ brief possession when he strangles Casca and the sexual assault, time has passed. There’s a montage and everything while he drags Casca around from fight to fight.

When Guts does assault Casca, it’s broad daylight, not a ghost in sight, and he is not possessed by a damn thing.

The
brief possession is not a prelude to another possession, the purpose it serves is to show us how weak Guts
is growing in willpower and resolve (Puck is pretty much narrating this
fact for us), which leads to him giving in to his own worst instincts
later on. Additionally, Guts himself questions whether he was really compelled to do something he didn’t want to do.

The visuals indicate that he was possessed, but his own doubt indicates
that he doubts himself, that he thinks he himself is capable of harming
Casca regardless – which fits nicely with the flash of the Beast we see in the
possession scene. It’s a perfect, straight forward set-up for Guts’ own internal weakness and
inability to keep his own darkness at bay during the assault scene in the following chapter.

I see you’ve acknowledged that the Beast of Darkness is part of Guts in other posts, so I’m not sure why you keep insisting that being under its influence absolves Guts lol – it literally means he’s giving in to his own worst instincts. You posted the picture of Guts-as-the-Beast assaulting her like it means it wasn’t Guts, while acknowledging elsewhere that the Beast IS part of Guts, so what do you think that image proves exactly? It’s symbolic of what’s going on in Guts’ mind as he pins Casca down, forcibly kisses her (right after a gangrape attempt), and bites her tit.

Also
lmao at phrasing it as “Guts is trying to rescue her from insanity.”
The narrative ominously foreshadows that it’s less a rescue and more
Guts forcing her to confront trauma before she’s ready, knowing
full-well that he’s doing what he himself wants, not necessarily what
she wants:

So consider that before asserting that Guts is a clear cut white knight only doing what’s best for Casca.

(incidentally
pointing out that Guts isn’t constantly trying to rape her and even
averted his eyes from her tits and therefore he never could assault her
is the most bizarre logic I’ve ever seen, and if you take that to its
logical conclusion then Griffith/Femto couldn’t possibly rape Casca bc he saved her
from rape once. So maybe check your own ridiculous arguments before
throwing out insults next time.)

@phydia63 bc you tagged me in the first post that got drama attached to it and this is in part a response to some of it lol. and there wasn’t really much i could add to your first response anyway 🙂

The whole point of this post and the one I linked was refuting people who say “Guts raped Casca”. That didn’t happen. The only reason the Beast of Darkness was able to influence his thoughts more than usual is because of the Incubis in this scene:

Giving him nightmares of killing Casca. Then he immediately refuses the thought:

Yes, you are correct that when he assaults her there aren’t any demons in sight and it’s midday, but an external demon isn’t always the source of turmoil. The Beast of Darkness, from as early on as the Lost Children arc, before Farnese captures Guts, is trying to convince Guts to go rabbid and kill everyone and everything in an an attempt to get to Griffith.

Maybe you thought I mean a demon was possessing him during the day, but that’s not what I meant. Guts has had trouble with the Beast influencing him for a very long time, and after the fight with Griffith and the hill of swords encounter, it’s more understandable to see why Guts acts the way he does.

That’s not the same as defending him. Obviously he needs to come clean with Casca if she can’t remember what happened. But it’s hard to see the Beast as a part of Guts when Guts is adamantly horrified by what he almost (emphasis on almost because most people think that he did rape her) did. I’m pretty sure I brought this up before, but the Beast is a direct result of the events of the eclipse. It’s a symptom of Guts’ trauma, the violent, angry part of him that has always existed given form by demons and encouraging him to become demon himself.

Yes, you are also right when citing Godo telling Guts to have saved Casca by staying with her and making it a home instead of leaving her behind. I will admit that what I said was wrong, at least in part.

But Guts has also been very emotional and hasn’t ever thought things through. He left the original Band of the Hawk because he didn’t want to be trapped in Griffith’s dream, even though he was content and happy there. He calls himself stupid for doing so, in fact.

He’s not a genius, and he’s never had a real family or anyone to show him how to help others. He did what he did best, which was leave and kill things. It’s kind of stupid to assume that Guts would do the smart thing when he’s consistently done dumb things over the course of the manga. After all, in battle he’s not some master tactician, he just goes in with brute strength and a large sword, trading blows with the demons.

THE WHOLE POINT OF THESE POSTS IS THIS:

People are taking what happened, massively oversimplifying it and turning it into a situation that just simply didn’t happen, and then trying to insist that they are right when they are getting the events of the story wrong. I didn’t say anywhere that Guts was a white knight (more than once in this thread I’ve been bringing up Guts’ flaws).

I’m sick of people, especially shippers, try and take the events that happened, ignore what happens in canon, then pretend that Guts is some evil serial rapist when that’s just not the case, at all.

I’m glad to finally meet someone who’s actually read the manga and had an intelligent argument.

The others you responded to have also read the manga, are very intelligent, and are probably just fatigued as fuck by this repetitive argument we see all the time in fandom and have no more energy to grace you with a decent argument when you’re the one picking fights.

I’m not fatigued because I usually manage to avoid these arguments lol, so here’s the thing: I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and rather than going back to evidence of this vs evidence of that in the manga, I’m just going to explain my perspective, in the hopes that you’ll understand where I (and possibly, though I can’t speak for them, others you’ve responded to) am coming from. But I have to go to work soon so this is probably going to be the end of my part in this conversation, just a heads up.

Guts has committed sexual assault twice. That’s just a fact. Note that sexual assault is not just penetrative rape, but also includes rape attempts and non-consensual non-penetrative sexual contact. To many of us it’s still extremely abhorrent, unsympathetic, and unforgiveable, and splitting hairs between penetrative rape and “pinned her down and forcibly kissed her right after she was sexually assaulted and bit her breast” is unnecessary, because in either case we don’t care to excuse the perpetrator’s actions.

Were Guts’ actions as bad as Femto’s, or any number of other characters who have committed sexual assault? I honestly don’t really give a fuck, I still hold Guts responsible for his actions (as the Beast of Darkness is part of him and essentially a metaphor for Guts lashing out due to trauma), and consider him a non-viable romantic partner for Casca because of them, and that is a perfectly reasonable opinion as far as I’m concerned. No one is obligated to forgive anyone, let alone a fictional character lol, and he doesn’t need anyone to go to bat for him when people express disgust with some of the events in Berserk, because he’s not real.

My point here is to say who cares if people are simplifying it. Guts committed sexual assault, and no one is obligated to split hairs and try to justify it, excuse it, or sympathize with his regret.

The main reason I myself can still enjoy Berserk despite Miura’s unfortunate tendency to depict the darkness of humanity through sexual assault 9 times out of 10 is because I compartmentalize. I write it off as Miura’s big flaw, and therefore I’m fully capable of still enjoying Guts, and Griffith, as characters. I love Guts, flaws, idiocy, heroism, darkness and light and all, and I love the same in Griffith. But any potential romance between Guts and Casca now is something I would find immensely uncomfortable and would certainly detract from my enjoyment of Berserk, and that is also a perfectly reasonable opinion based on what we’re shown in the manga.

Incidentally this would also be the case if I thought a romance between NeoGriffith and Casca was at all a possibility. I feel like that should go without saying, but as you condemn people for liking Griffith yet not excusing Guts, I feel like it’s worth mentioning. I don’t excuse either of Casca’s assailants, I don’t ship her with either of them, but I still like them both as characters, because they are still both interesting and mostly well-written characters, and there’s no contradiction there. I don’t have to excuse or justify Guts’ actions or Griffith’s actions to continue to enjoy them as characters, because they are fictional.

It seems clear to me that we’re coming at this from very different perspectives and ways of relating to media, reasons for liking characters, and particularly the way rape/assault is depicted in media, and we’re probably not going to come to an agreement here.

But I’d like to ask you to consider that everyone has their own perspectives on fiction, how they read and relate to it, and there’s nothing contradictory about not shipping G/C because of sexual assault yet still enjoying Guts as a character, or Guts and Griffith as characters or even as a ship. It’s fiction, we take what we can enjoy from it and leave the rest. If fictional sexual assault was an automatic deal-breaker for enjoying characters most of us wouldn’t be Berserk fans at all – we don’t need to forgive Guts’ actions, we can just enjoy the elements of the story we like despite them.

Finally, I just want to point out that ime most non Guts/Casca fans wouldn’t ship G/C anyway due to a number of factors, but tend to point out the sexual assault when others call them immoral, or rape apologists, etc for liking Griffith or shipping Guts/Griffith. G/C shippers don’t have a higher horse here, is the point, and splitting hairs to argue that Guts’ actions should be forgiven while saying that anyone who likes Griffith is a rape apologist is somewhat hypocritical.

(ps I do want to make clear that wrt Guts’ possession, the fact that you brought it up as a partial reason for his later assault on Casca made me assume you meant he was at least somewhat possessed in both instances (the second time by the Beast), and I have seen lots of other people argue that, so my bad there. Though I do think the possession was a symptom of his lack of resolve and inability to control his own inner darkness, not a cause of it.)