mostly berserk meta. i'm into berserk mainly for griffguts and i'm a huge fan of griffith.
miura: *has an absolute wealth of potential with casca’s backstory, various intense and complex relationships both pre and post eclipse, her values and dreams, her betrayals, and how it could all inform her narrative going on now that she’s an active character again*
miura: ok but what if instead of any of that she was like, obsessed with a demon fetus after being pregnant for 4 days 3 years ago
honestly if i trusted miura half an inch i would be so interested to see casca’s reaction to falconia and neogriffith having achieved the dream she wholeheartedly devoted her life to but only after betraying her, becoming one of the monsters who prey on the weak that she fought against, and traumatizing her into insanity
oh damn this is a really good connection and i am actually really pissed off at myself for not noticing it. not even just the chapter 72 bit – like I swear to god I have a total blind spot when it comes to this fucking scene because first while I was writing that Griffith meta like 75% of the point was “Griffith’s dream is a coping mechanism” and it wasn’t until I was almost finished writing all four parts that I realized “what do you fear in this place” and then vision Griff pointing to the castle was basically Berserk stating that fact directly.
AND NOW you’ve pointed out that vision Griff throws down a sword and I’m like !!! what the fuck I’ve been thinking about swords as coping mechanisms in Berserk for ages now how did I miss this too???? even after connecting this very page to Griffith retreating into his dream as a coping mechanism???
like look at this
So thank you for sending this ask lol.
Wrt defying vs succumbing to fate, I think you have an interesting point there. While Casca isn’t technically defying her fate, knowing how fate works in Berserk, she is defying the “natural way of things,” ie strong prey upon the weak, as is Griffith. It turns out that Griffith’s fate all along is to overturn the natural way of things. But with the way later Berserk kind of sets up Guts defying fate vs Griffith succumbing to it, it’s ironic that in order to fulfill his (and Casca’s) dream and change the world Griffith essentially accepts fate’s mastery over his life and in doing so becomes the strong who preys upon the weak first, essentially taking the nobleman’s place here.
I don’t rly know where to go with that rn, but it’s something to think about.
For my part, I want to take this parallel as another indication of how swords and dreams are emotional defense mechanisms in Berserk (as you may have guessed from how I opened this response lol).
When Griffith throws the sword to Casca the straightforward reading is that he’s telling her to defend herself.
Which he is. But there’s another level where she’s protecting not just her body but her heart. With the sword she does defy what seems to be her fate, and switches from meekly accepting that this is just how the world works to fighting back.
And that’s what Griffith represents to her, which is the big reason I think she’s so uttery devoted. He represents that defiance, and that potential to change the world. And her dream to be Griffith’s “sword” after taking up the sword he threw her is basically her way of coping with the general shittiness of the world and how it’s fucked her over throughout her childhood by fighting back.
idk at some point I’m going to have to sit down and hammer all this out.
Battle Beast also has a lot of Berserk-themed songs. They’re primarily power metal, but “Touch in the Night” is delightfully 80s (and about Griffith)
ok i actually listened to this one and i didn’t realize the singer is a woman?? also the 80s vibe is gr8, ty for the additional info! now i’m listening to more and i’m actually way more into their sound than i was expecting lol.
also ngl i had to read the lyrics twice before i realized it was about griffith fucking charlotte and not being in love with guts lmao
yk i think guts is supposed to seem chill and confident and generally changed in a positive way after his year long vacation but since every moment that emphasizes his cool chill attitude makes me want to punch him i’m not 100% certain lol
like i generally take as read that guts leaving the hawks is one of those things that’s overall bad but had some positive effects, like guts being more confident and cool, since yk the moments that indicate that are things the target audience of dudes would generally agree is cool, like calmly grabbing casca’s tit while she’s yelling at him and then saying, ‘come with me’ in a nonchalant non-commital way, or like telling casca she’s too naked and distracting during the wyald fight, or constantly being a smartass dick during the competition, that kinda thing.
but then again since i generally argue that leaving the hawks was a bad decision, maybe those moments are actually meant to be off-putting. like i don’t really think so, if i was a betting person i’d place money on miura thinking they make guts cooler, but i kind of want to believe.
I was like, vaguely aware of them but I didn’t realize they had a whole Berserk album, I thought it was just one or two songs, nice! Metal isn’t really my thing so idk if I’ll ever really listen to it all lol, but that is a pretty cool concept tbh.
also while i’m on chapter one
idk if this is a purposeful thing but this sequence makes me think of how both guts and griffith are used to isolation in different ways, guts as a loner, swinging his sword instead of showing up to the ceremony, and griffith surrounded by people but separate from them, rising above the rest of the hawks but looked down on by the whispering nobles in the audience.
and then i remembered that time miura said griffith draws out feelings of loneliness in (current) guts and the way they’re each others’ brightest things, how they both shine in each others’ eyes and hearts, and agh
there’s something just so good and satisfying about how these two lonely idiots found each other and their relationship with each other is the only thing that fully eases that loneliness. griffith as he opens up to guts and lets him see the real him, and guts as he begins to accept that he’s maybe genuinely found a home here with griffith, after griffith saves his life again for “no reason.”
and why guts overhearing the promrose speech had such a devastating effect on him, and why guts leaving had such a devastating effect on griffith
also it makes me think of how current guts is similar to griffith – he has friends and people he relies on, but he doesn’t fully open up to them. there was even a recent reminder that farnese’s feelings for guts are similar to casca’s for griffith.
Chapter One serves to re-establish the characters’ relationships with each other after three years fighting together and foreshadow their future conflicts as their relationships change. This is especially evident during the last scene of the chapter.
The interspersing of Guts’ rote sword exercise with Griffith’s knighting as
he reaches a significant milestone on the path to his dream subtly
illustrates the eventual conflict between Griffith’s dream and his
relationship with Guts by contrasting Guts’ aimlessness with Griffith’s
ambition, ie the source of Guts’ eventual inner conflict that leads to him leaving the Hawks.
And these directly subsequent panels in particular invite a visual
comparison between Guts’ sword and the sword that represents Griffith’s dream, hinting at the way Griffith is torn between Guts and his dream.
Finally, the clear phallic imagery indicates that they want to bone the fuck down.
farnese has never had a “normal” relationship/interaction with a man.
all of the men in her army appeared to have followed her and listened to her orders; but miura made it clear that almost none of them actually liked her and mocked her womanhood behind her back. they were crude and only listened to her halfheartedly because it was tradition for a woman to lead the holy knights. they did not believe in her.
her father was neglectful and emotionally abusive. he was almost never home, and when he was he would only belittle and shame her. she was constantly looking for his approval/affection. her constant unhealthy wavering mental state and inability to stand up against her father caused her to behave violently as a child and lash out, thus her fathers nickname for her, “the vandimion devil child.”
serpico and her have a huge power dynamic due to him being her paige + her half brother (without her knowledge) and him being one of her only means of support as a child. unlike the rest of the mansion staff, he is specifically there exclusively for farnese. farnese even goes as far as to constantly remind serpico that he is bound to farnese and she owns him. serpico was one of her only sources of attention period as a child and that is why she misguidedly tries to push her feelings towards serpico as a pillar in her life to something its not; romantic. she does not want romance or a sexual relationship with him: she just wants attention period and at that time in her childhood serpico was the only one who was giving it to her.
roderick is one of the first men who at first appears to have a normal attraction to farnese without any sense of “wanting” something from her. he does very bare minimum to woe farnese; simply giving her flowers and calling her “interesting.” farnese has never had a man compliment her in this context before. the whole engagement was simply a transaction to farnese in the first place so this throws her off. she shows zero interest in roderick before he shows her some form of approval; something she has always wanted from men but has never gotten.
even with guts the whole reason why she is “jealous” towards casca and blushes around guts has nothing to do with actual attraction. farnese has a huge power dynamic at the beginning of her appearance in the manga; wanting to control the servants when shes a kid, wanting to control the army when shes an adult, wanting to control serpico, wanting to control guts. she is charged with finding the black swordsman and creates a personal agenda to catch him. guts shakes her sheltered religious views by exposing her to horrors that she has never seen before and then she is immediately possessed and tries to have sex with guts. it absolutely horrifies her until she almost passes out once the possession is over.
farnese has a very complicated relationship with her sexuality as shown by her different sexual encounters. she associates any sexuality she feels as shameful; even going so far as to lash herself when she feels it. she has to reassure herself when she does feel any sexual attraction that she is normal and that she isn’t in the wrong. she seeks sexual relief in other strange places other than herself such as pain and fire.
guts is one of the very first men in her life who treats her normally. he disregards her, but not in a way that is abusive like her father. he simply is one of the first men who doesn’t have any alter motives involving farnese. she wants gut’s attention and approval because she genuinely respects him and his willingness to protect casca. she has never felt that before; respect for a man. all men in her life thus far prior to guts are either someone shes in control of and owns or would not give her any attention or abuse her. she isn’t able to tell the difference between respect and being attracted to him. she is jealous of the way guts treats casca because she has never had that kind of relationship with a man period, even platonically.
because farnese has never had any normal relationship with a man and associates her sexual feelings with shame; she is unable to tell the difference between respect and actual attraction. she is momentarily infatuated to any man that treats her like a normal girl; because no man has ever done that for her.
farnese is literally the walking definition of compulsory heterosexuality and she isn’t able to decipher between romantic feelings and platonic feelings towards men because shes never had any male figures in her life to base that off of
ooh yeah this is one I’ve already got on my berserk playlist lol, it’s got that perfect blend of tender, tragic, and ominous. very immediately pre-eclipse to me.
this is under a cut because it’s long, rambly, and stupid, and doesn’t even answer the question.
lol this honestly just defeats me entirely. idk man idk, I spent forever writing out an explanation for why the subject of toxic masculinity in Berserk defeats me, ie largely due to Miura’s total incoherence when it comes to misogyny, yk, the fact that’s he’s a huge misogynist himself really muddies the waters when it comes to sussing out where his misogyny ends and the characters’ misogyny begins.
Like how can I analyze toxic masculinity in Berserk when Miura frames, eg, the protagonist grabbing a woman’s tit during an argument as a cute moment? It’s absolutely possible to write useful and interesting things on the subject (shoutout to @yesgabsstuff who often has good thoughts on it), so I’m totally not saying that you’re wrong about it being important to Guts and Griffith’s characters/relationship, but the way I approach meta, from a ‘here’s what the narrative has to say on this using things like symbolism and parallels etc’ perspective, just doesn’t feel compatible, and frankly I suck at looking at stories from any other perspective lol.
But then I was like, but why can’t I write about gender roles in Berserk when I won’t shut up about things like sexual repression, which surely can’t actually be a more coherent subject?
It’s like, sexuality and Berserk? Hell yeah I got things to say. Gender and Berserk? my brain melts. idk idk idk. Maybe it’s because Miura thinks he has things to say about misogyny and gender but sucks at it, whereas the sexuality stuff could conceivably be accidental lol, and in any case is more subtle and therefore has fewer chances to be self-contradictory. And, less cynically, I’m sure there’s a cultural gap too that affects my ability to suss out what Miura is going for wrt masculinity/gender roles/etc.
And like, I feel I could almost answer this re: heteronormativity specifically, but honestly that also has a significant gendered component that I don’t feel up to tackling. Griffith as a knight in shining armour to attract Princess Charlotte and become an idealized heterosexual couple as he represses his feelings for Guts? Ok. But then when it comes to gender roles/masculinity and Griffith’s attraction to Guts I fall apart again. Is there a sense that Griffith’s attraction to Guts is partially something to shy away from because it makes him less of a masculine ideal? IDK! How does Griffith sleeping with Gennon for the sake of his heteronormative dream fit in? IDK! Does Guts shy away from his attraction to Griffith due in part to insecurity in his own masculinity? IDK! Is insecurity in his masculinity a deliberate aspect of his trauma? IDK!
I feel like his trauma absolutely informs how he leaps into danger at any given opportunity and stands against every monster he sees, which is very typically masculine, like, mb I’ve got the seed of something there (Casca wishing he’d run away sometimes? His choice to stay with Griffith in chapter 71 as turning away from fighting his own battles to regain a relationship and a sense of emotional openness that helped him heal from trauma in a much healthier way, but tragically undone by Casca urging him towards his own masculine ideal? that masculine ideal in both guts and griffith’s cases leading to an unleashed rapey dark side, and in both cases as a tragic alternative to a fulfilling relationship with each other? hmmmm) but I’m not confident in my ability to carry that thread through with an emphasis on gender roles/masculinity.
But I mean, maybe I’m just overcomplicating it lol, it’s not like everything has to fit perfectly in order to be worthwhile as a reading, and I’m not exactly married to authorial intent. Idk I’ll probably end up pondering this further and if I come up with anything I’ll definitely write it out, but as for now this is going to have to go pretty much unanswered.
tl;dr I got nothin atm, sorry anon, and idek if anything I wrote here makes sense lol.
Personally I think you should write your take on how toxic masculinity and heteronormativity affects the
characters and their relationship and @ me or link me, because I’m
interested in seeing what you have to say.
And anyone else with Thoughts on the subject should feel free and encouraged to leap in too.
The way I see it human Griffiths ambition to rule over a kingdom never truly came from him per say??? It derived from his destiny. It was his destiny, a fate he wasnt aware of, that was the driving force behind his every action, behind his every victory and the reason why it was possible for him to climb the rigid social ladder.
And I don’t think NeoGriffiths lack of humanity would be the cause behind Faconia’s fall(if it does fall)
As a human I dont
think Griffith wouldve been able to handle doing everything that
NeoGriffith did. Despite how strong Human Griffith was he was still
prone to stress, doubt and anxiety. As a human Griffith tried to be
everything that he managed to become as a godhand, perfect.
And him hiding behind his strength, charisma, and beauty did take its
toll on him as a human. Then add the stress of being the messiah to all
of humanity, old Griffith wouldnt be able to do it
tbh I never really saw fate as a reason in and of itself for any choices people make in Berserk. Everyone has their own reasons for doing whatever they do, those reasons just play perfectly into fate’s hands. At one point Flora equates fate and “encounters,” which I like because it’s basically like a perfect meld of fate and free will.
eg Guts was fated to be picked up off the side of the road by Gambino, which thoroughly shaped him as a person; Guts was fated to overhear Griffith’s Promrose Hall speech, and the reason he chose to leave was largely because of a bundle of issues Gambino left him with. So Guts and his choices make perfect sense with or without fate having a hand in his life, it just so happens that fate is there behind the scenes making sure he is shaped by the right people.
so for Griffith, God tells him that he basically shaped the entire world, and Griffith’s ancestry, in order to bring Griffith into the world with a perfect set of traits to become the next Godhand, but everything he thinks and feels and does still makes sense just as a person with his particular history. So I can’t really say he’s obsessed with his dream because it’s his destiny, he’s obsessed with his dream because he has a particularly obsessive personality and he happened to see it at the right time in his life or under the right circumstances to become fixated or w/e – because of destiny lol.
Idk it’s convoluted but you gave me an opening to explain my thoughts on fate in berserk and I took it lol.
anyway aside from that long fate tangent that’s barely related to what you said lol, ia that human Griffith wouldn’t be able to do what NeoGriffith does. For one thing he’d’ve been crushed by Ganeshka without his army of apostles. And even without that, even if he just became king of Midland the way he was planning, if Guts never left, ia that I could see a scenario where reality hits him square in the head, being king turns out to be not all its cracked up to be, he still finds his power too limited to do everything he wants to do, and he struggles a lot under the pressure.
having re-read some bits and pieces of the manga i think i just gained another layer of understanding as to why people are so certain griffith’s utopia is going to go downhill
it’s because he locked away his emotions. right? wanting to create an equal society where he could really help people was human griffith’s dream. but the current griffith, the one setting it all into motion, threw away his humanity
how can someone without emotions be able to understand and fix the pain of the world? that’s probably what most people are wondering about. if he can keep on track, and how long. it’s normal to be waiting for the ball to drop
but the thing is, as i’ve said many times before, griffith is not fulfilling his own wishes–he is fulfilling the wishes of humanity as a whole. and i think that’s exactly why it’s perfect for him to be a husk. because anyone with emotions would surely be driven to follow their own wishes instead
moreover, humanity also desired griffith as he is now, it’s all part of the plan. the change of the world, falconia, apostles, everything. so it’s really hard for me to see how miura could convincingly blame griffith for the fall of falconia/the world, if it is to fall at all
It’s so fitting that he did get rid of like… his entire motivation for wanting a kingdom. There’s something delightfully inhuman about NeoGriffith getting his kingdom because human Griffith was motivated by guilt, and wanting an escape from the pains of the world, and NeoGriffith has none of that, he just has like, this residual ambition divorced from his motivation, that coincides with humanity’s need.
It does make him like the ideal fulfiller of humanity’s desires. Give or take a Guts.
this page always fucking kills me because after he activates the behelit guts just keeps holding on to him and touching him and we don’t see his face again
until this page, and the way he’s leaning over and crying reminds me of his suicide attempt to boot
oh shit you’re right, it’s like almost a full chapter until we see his face again (thx to the interlude with puck and rickert) and then he’s CRYING BLOOD, and the blood drops and his posture do totally mirror the suicide attempt and agh, like this part isn’t painful enough already.
so here griffith is, finding out that he IS one of the keys that set the world in motion, he WAS destined for all this and none of it was a mistake and he didn’t send all those people to their deaths for nothing
(it’s also fitting that his “kin” all look like and are literally monsters)
and then guts jumps in to defend his humanity. i like to think it was somewhat comforting, as much as it was confusing and unexpected (guts has defended griffith many times before, but you know, when he left those memories were replaced with everything griffith perceived as rejection from him. so now whenever guts shows that he cares and HOW much he cares griffith just like. stares at him)
something that i guess people who hate griffith don’t realise which makes me really sad is the fact that yes griffith sacrificed many lives for his dream but he also sacrificed himself the most. even before the eclipse he had to suppress his emotions and any desires outside of his dream. he was a commander, a leader, a warrior, the knight in shining armour,
a hand on the hawks’ shoulders,
a body to be exchanged for funds. the eclipse was the final but not the first instance of him sacrificing his humanity for his dream. it was a culmination.
you're the only one 