mostly berserk meta. i'm into berserk mainly for griffguts and i'm a huge fan of griffith.
oh and like, the second duel is less guts winning his freedom/equality and more guts demolishing griffith and costing him his freedom, both literally and figuratively
like we knew that already – guts left to establish their equality but it was wrongheaded and when he returned griffith had been tortured for a year was totally dependent and had just had a monologue reflecting on guts’ hold on him – but yk the waterfight is a little extra point now.
it only just occurred to me that guts doesn’t necessarily mean ‘now this waterfight is a draw’ but it’s more likely that he means ‘now you won a fight and i won a fight.’
which makes this waterfight and “now we’re even” even more meaningful than i’ve been saying lol. it’s like a negation of the first duel, meaning that guts is symbolically only bound to the hawks by his affection for everyone – which works perfectly with the scene right after this one where guts deliberately chooses to stay after rickert congratulates him and he thinks, “for now.”
also newsflash assholes you’ve been equal the entire goddamn time
prettykitten123
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post …”
One of these days I will reread the golden age arc and write the most shameless must self-indulgent smut for those two, I will go all out, pull out all the stops. I like my smut explicit and without shame lol. If madchen doesnt mind I would like to borrow the Guts service top idea. And I know you guys said Guts probably wouldnt be into rough sex and I agree too but he would be sooo good at it. I will write that in just to be self-indulgent.
niiiice! nothing wrong with shameless self indulgence, i support you
madchen
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post “do you…”
only making the best additions to good conversation tonight
u do good work
also @prettykitten123 oh yeah that was the name of that one dj artist, i knew it started with a b lol. + man it would be nice if there was more griffguts content in general ngl.
madchen
replied to your post
“madchen
replied to your post “do you have… any griffith topping for…”
he wants the full ~equality~ spread in their relationship. also he loves griffiths dick.
this truly sums it up lol. also yeah they’d both be totally into eating the other out lbr
technically the term “apologist” means someone who argues in defense
of something unpopular or controversial, not someone who apologizes for
the actions of someone else. so like, i myself am a huge griffith
apologist lol. i’ll argue in defense of griffith as a wonderfully three
dimensional, super interesting, super sympathetic character who shouldn’t be judged on the basis of one terrible offensive writing choice all day.
hell
i’ll even argue in defense of femto as a potentially/originally great
villain that got fucked over by the author’s love of gratuitous
misogynist grimdarkness and homophobia.
self-describing as a griffith apologist isn’t the same as saying that you’re fine with rape lol, because griffith is fictional and defending him as a fictional character doesn’t mean saying everything he did would be justified irl, sometimes it means that the writing around him was bad, and/or that he’s a good character rather than a good person, and/or that they think judgement should be aimed at miura for writing gratuitous rape rather than at griffith/femto bc he’s not real, yk?
(I mean yeah some people hate fictional characters for doing bad things, or think that if you like a fictional character that means you’d support everything they do if they were real, but plenty of people don’t respond to fiction that way and it would be nice if more people understood that lol)
and tbh i feel like “haters gonna hate” applies here lol. people are going to be assholes to fans of controversial fictional characters no matter how consciencious you are about always writing a disclaimer when you talk about liking them, so fuck it, why bother? (i say this while i have like a disclaimer in my about page lol, but yk. i don’t blame anyone for not bothering. if someone leaps to the conclusion that you’re fine with rape irl bc of which fictional characters you like, that’s absolutely their own problem.)
Like, you shouldn’t blame other fans for being enthusiastic about their love and attracting hate lol, you should blame the people who go out of their way to look for excuses to be dicks.
As long as ppl aren’t sliding into rape apologism or other offensive rhetoric when they talk about griffith, who cares? and tbqh in my time on tumblr as a huge fan of griffith i’ve never actually seen anyone defend femto raping casca or claim it’s justified or should be forgiven etc. like, maybe it happens, i’m sure there are edgy teenagers somewhere out there saying the eclipse rape scene was badass or w/e, but it sure isn’t common.
I mostly see people saying it was bad/offensive writing, or that femto is far enough removed from griffith due to, yk, the whole fantasy magical monster transformation thing that it doesn’t affect their feelings towards griffith lol.
anyway my point is that someone calling themselves a griffith apologist doesn’t mean they think his actions are justified, or would be justified in real life, because ime griffith fans tend to be able to tell the difference between fiction and reality, and judge the character as a fictional construct within a deeply flawed fictional work, rather than as a real person.
madchen
replied to your post “do you have… any griffith topping for the first time/in general…”
i have more thoughts but i agree to all u said i think griffith would have a hard time getting into the physical sensation of it at first especially bc his whole focus is on making sure guts feels good. also yea guts asks for it idk why but yea he totally would want griffith to top him after a while
ty glad you agree. and yeah i feel like griffith would have that perfectionist thing going on during sex if he was in control. Well, with someone who he cared about at least.
Elaborated Version Of Casca’s Backstory
Casca was born to a couple with many children and was the youngest and also the weakest
Her parents were emotionally abusive since they saw Casca as useless, she couldn’t work properly and she was an extra mouth to feed that didn’t even know how to tend to the land correctly
Casca always felt like her life never truly belonged to her, everything was predetermined, she would either grow up, get married to a farmer and have a bunch of children to tend to their land or die of hunger one brutal winter. She wasn’t sure which one was the worse option
She didn’t wish to be rich or anything or have ambitions. Her parents taught her not to hope for anything, hoping only made life harder for a laborer, just focus on tending the land and hope the bread doesn’t stale
Casca didn’t like that she felt weak, that she couldn’t do anything to change her life.
That was when her parents sold her to a nobleman. Everything seemed bleak when he tried to touch her when Griffith rescued her
When she killed the noble with her own two hands she felt…empowered. This was the first time she ever made a decision for herself that isn’t dictated by someone else, the first time she felt like she was free and could do anything with her life. This was also the first time she wanted something desperately, she wanted to desperately continue feeling this feeling and didn’t want to let it go
She wanted to continue learning how be stronger, how to take charge of her life and so she turned to the silver haired boy that saved her for guidance
As she traveled with Griffith, his ambitions became her ambitions and she wished to see him become king.
It was on that day that she vowed her life to his cause, pledged her sword to him like a knight to a lord. She wanted to help and protect the person who helped her discover her true potential, her strength.
She later on eventually confused her gratefulness and protectiveness of him for love
slightly vent-y so this is under a cut
prettykitten123
replied to your post “shipping g*tsca is one thing but glorifying their relationship is so…”
@bthump this is unfortunately a problem found in too many fandoms, one group of fans feeling more superior over another because of their ship. Kurokura shippers get a lot of heat in the hunter x hunter fandom, same as izaya x shizuo shippers and Izuku x Bakugou. People just like being opinionated assholes but I feel like people get all pissy more so when the ship is yaoi
oh yeah i definitely see it everywhere, i don’t personally know any of those examples but i see it in my other fandoms every day so.
it’s basically shipwars but instead of calling shippers of the thing you don’t like dumbasses you call them bigoted and/or abusive. it’s awful, unfun, and only makes it harder to call out actually offensive behaviour on an individual basis when everyone’s used to being called, like, racist for having either poe or finn top the other in their star wars fic, or fetishizing for shipping anything gay that isn’t the current acceptable “pure” thing of the week lbr, or pedophilic for shipping two literal adults with an age difference, or misogynist for shipping two dudes who spend all their screen time together while ignoring a non-canonical wife that was mentioned off-handedly in one line of a novelization, etc.
(none of these are exaggerations lol. i once saw someone call bryan fuller a gay fetishizer for wearing a shirt with hannigram fanart. yes, the gay man who wrote the ship into his own show lmao.)
and yeah it always hits the gay ships hardest is2g, every single time.
it would definitely be a big relationship milestone.
guts would be the one to ask for it. griffith… hm idk whether he’d be outwardly reluctant, but i think he would definitely be trepidatious, like, i think he’d be irrationally terrified of triggering guts, especially while topping him, even if guts reassures him that even if he freaks out it’s be nbd in the grand scheme of things and they can just try again another time.
i’m assuming that like canon guts has already been triggered during sex at least once and therefore they know it’s a possibility.
so griffith would be super slow and careful and pull out all the stops to make it as good as possible, setting the mood, making out/foreplay beforehand, mb rimming, blowing him while slowly fingering him, etc.
and I think Guts would love that btw, he might roll his eyes and tell Griffith to hurry up but he would be so into being slowly and thoroughly made love to. all griffith’s focus and energy being directed at him. he wouldn’t be v responsive though lol, i could see griffith asking for reassurance 50 times and guts like, ‘yes it’s great, you’re amazing, get on with it’ because I just don’t see guts as all that vocal in bed.
also i like to think that it goes perfectly fine, at least the first time. i don’t think one flashback and pouring his heart out once would actually fix guts’ childhood trauma lol, i’m sure he’ll be triggered more than once in his life, but ptsd flashbacks aren’t exactly super predictable afaik and i mean it would just be nice if guts enjoyed his first time bottoming.
and then afterwards griffith would just be super blown away by guts trusting him enough to ask him to fuck him, and tbh i think it would be a bigger deal to griffith than guts, like it wouldn’t be meaningless or anything to guts, but i think he’d downplay it a bit.
a few years down the line they start occasionally playing rock paper scissors to decide who has to top lol. though overall i think guts would still top more often, less because of trauma and more because i just hc him w/ more verse tendencies than griffith.
ETA and I just noticed you also asked in general not just first time, so I also want to add that I think Griffith wouldn’t be super into topping. He’d be into Guts wanting him, but along w/ my sub Griffith hcs I think that he’d prefer to lay back and experience rather than create the experience for Guts, yk? he’d find topping stressful. otoh I think he would absolutely do it if Guts wanted it and he wouldn’t really think of it like that to himself, he wouldn’t think of topping as something that stresses him out and makes him overthink lol, he’d just put too much effort into it and wouldn’t really be able to relax and enjoy the experience.
Like I can see where top and/or powerbottom Griffith comes from, and I could def see Griffith taking charge during sex (particularly power bottoming, esp when they first get together. Griff on top, riding Guts, controlling the pace and initiating things, etc), I think he’d be p good at it too, but I don’t think he’d prefer it, basically.
hbu, what are your Thoughts?
i’m capping this bc i’m p sure if g*tsca is uncensored, even in asks, this post will show up when ppl search the tag bc tumblr is fucking terrible lol
lol i wish, i don’t ever expect anything canon from griffguts but it’d sure be nice esp knowing how many of miura’s stated influences are super gay. i mean he could at the very least canonically confirm that the golden age was 100% mutually requited pining gone wrong, we all know it’s true lol. either way tho i want casca to get her own arc so bad.
also imagine farnesca vibes w/ apostle casca. i know i always cite jill and rosine as a griffguts parallel but i’m js, it’d work with them too.
yeah like, as far as ships go, it’s dark, very far from traditionally romantic, textually abusive af – both purposefully post-eclipse and probably accidentally on miura’s part pre-eclipse what with guts grabbing her tit in the middle of an argument and things like that – and reflects a whole lot of the author’s misogyny.
i personally have no problem w/ ppl who enjoy g*tsca anyway in theory, idgaf if people ship dark fucked up ships and i ship a million of them myself, but man i wish so many berserk fans didn’t pretend it’s something it very much isn’t for the sake of getting pissy at those who don’t care for the ship lol.
and i’m not one of those fans who are like, “you have to acknowledge how ~problematic~ something is every time you mention it” (obviously lol), like i also dgaf about g*tsca fans romanticizing it generally, but like in the context of pitting one ship against another on moral grounds, or genuinely wishing for guts and casca to live happily ever after together in canon, or accusing people who don’t ship it of hating casca or not wanting casca to be happy lol, i feel like it’s a pretty glaring omission to sweep, eg, the fact that casca is afraid of him because he sexually assaulted her under the rug.
idk basically my stance is ship what u want but don’t act like it makes you morally superior, and the fact that so many people do get on weird judgemental high horses over g*tsca of all ships blows my mind lol.
@alluka-zoldyck-official lol sorry i often check out ppl’s tags on my posts and jsyk griffith’s panel is from chapter one (the second chapter 1, technically the 17th chapter) when he and guts are talking after guts’ argument with casca, and the 2nd panel is from chapter 29 during the victory parade when guts is thinking about how impressive griffith is.
and
they’re not sequential, i just dig the looks on their faces when they’re fondly reminiscing about each other.
imagine shipping guts with casca…. like griffith is literally right there and deeply in love with guts. what’s wrong with u.
Ummmm I don’t think neo griff even likes guts anymore tho’ ;;
i mean if that’s ur opinion then cool but neogriff is still very much obsessed with guts and that’s faxx @hawkmaiden
Does he? I haven’t read it that far! I thought he hates guts now or does he still love him?
well i mean…. he hesitated to kill guts at the end of the eclipse, purposefully spared him numerous times, had a very bitchy ex boyfriend type talk with him during guardians of desire, likes to stare at him intensely from a distance, and most importantly the whole hill of swords reunion scene is quite poignant at spelling out the fact that griffith still has feelings for guts, though he denies it (ie. when guts is in danger griffiths should-be-dead heart starts beating in fear, and he tells zodd to stop attacking guts.) there’s LOTS of other evidence but i don’t have the post space currently to send screenshots and such in a reblog, so that’s the gist of it. i would say he “hates” guts in that he still feels betrayed that guts left him, plus frustrated at the heavy influence his feelings for guts has/had over his decisions, but he still obviously feels something for guts – worry, longing, loneliness, etc. if need be, i can explain deeper, but i would also really recommend reading further so you can see these things for yourself and not have me spoil it for you!
@viperethics does this answer your question as well??
seisans
replied to your post “(½)Was thinking in a canon au if Griff and Guts actually did confess…”js if guts and griffith made out griffith would freak out not just about his dream but also about the fact that guts might have just been drunk or had a little lapse of judgment and would regret it in the morning & leave
this is an extremely good point
man there are so many ways for griffith to be a complete mess about this lol. i feel like guts would be the relatively chill one.
Like Guts would be chill with it but it’s not in his nature to aggressively pursue something like that also like his track record of taking a little while to catch up with the full extent of his emotions.
So he’d be waiting for cues from Griff,
And Griffith would basically see the laid back thing as both a relief as well blow because on one hand it would be easy to write off all these new emotional feels and go back to status quo on the other hand Guts not seeming concerned would be taken as him not being as into it as Griffith is, which could make him feel less empowered and thereby pretending to not care either because he doesn’t want to be the one who’s being emotional about it.
And Guts would just be like “okay well not a surprise, I may have gotten ahead of myself anyway”
lol there are so many ways they could blow little miscommunications out of proportion.
i think guts could at least save the day here with his tendency to try to have conversations and speak his mind about stuff.
though now that i think about it guts does only tend to force conversations w/ griffith if he’s surprised about griffith going above and beyond for him/demonstrating his feelings. he didn’t talk about the promrose hall speech because it made sense to him, unlike griffith saving him from zodd or w/e lol.
so yeah if griffith withdrew after a kiss or a night together or w/e i could totally see guts being hurt but going along with it. 😦
maybe they could figure their shit out next time griffith does something stupid for guts and guts is like, ‘okay wtf is the deal here.’
or, as per tradition, a hawk member forces them to face the gay reality
lol yeah this was originally about casca being the one to tell them what the deal is, wasn’t it
rickert could help too
ok i’m sorry but in addition to the excellent way this hugely significant moment of triumph for Griffith’s dream concludes with Griffith seeking Guts out across a crowded ballroom and through a window so he can smile at him:
Contrast that to the way Charlotte keeps trying and failing get Griffith’s attention in these two chapters lmao.
Like this is just a perfect little microcosm of where Griffith’s emotional priorities now lie lol, his dream is Right There but he only has eyes for Guts.
oh also just to throw something out there
that expression guts and griffith have when they’re fondly thinking about each other is also p much the exact same expression (huge art shift aside) we see when casca thinks about guts in her most recent chapter and we’re supposed to see her as in love with him
casca’s got prominent and more open teary eyes because they’re freaking huge, but otherwise it looks the exact same to me lol
seisans
replied to your post “(½)Was thinking in a canon au if Griff and Guts actually did confess…”js if guts and griffith made out griffith would freak out not just about his dream but also about the fact that guts might have just been drunk or had a little lapse of judgment and would regret it in the morning & leave
this is an extremely good point
man there are so many ways for griffith to be a complete mess about this lol. i feel like guts would be the relatively chill one.
Like Guts would be chill with it but it’s not in his nature to aggressively pursue something like that also like his track record of taking a little while to catch up with the full extent of his emotions.
So he’d be waiting for cues from Griff,
And Griffith would basically see the laid back thing as both a relief as well blow because on one hand it would be easy to write off all these new emotional feels and go back to status quo on the other hand Guts not seeming concerned would be taken as him not being as into it as Griffith is, which could make him feel less empowered and thereby pretending to not care either because he doesn’t want to be the one who’s being emotional about it.
And Guts would just be like “okay well not a surprise, I may have gotten ahead of myself anyway”
lol there are so many ways they could blow little miscommunications out of proportion.
i think guts could at least save the day here with his tendency to try to have conversations and speak his mind about stuff.
though now that i think about it guts does only tend to force conversations w/ griffith if he’s surprised about griffith going above and beyond for him/demonstrating his feelings. he didn’t talk about the promrose hall speech because it made sense to him, unlike griffith saving him from zodd or w/e lol.
so yeah if griffith withdrew after a kiss or a night together or w/e i could totally see guts being hurt but going along with it. 😦
maybe they could figure their shit out next time griffith does something stupid for guts and guts is like, ‘okay wtf is the deal here.’
you're the only one 