got a few replies and anon asks related to last night and sexuality headcanons etc which i’m not answering bc i’m tired and don’t want to resurrect the topic lol, but ty for the responses/input

eiruvsq:

Digital Artist:

Michael Chang

#Berserk
#Griffith
#蝕
the complete version of the Griffith i sketched long time ago, actaully looks quite different .
I tried hard to capture the transformation of the character .
get into the darkness of the world of Berserk. Griffith is not only with a handsome face, his charm is far beyond his apearence.
its hard to define him as evil or saint. thats the beauty of this character!”

houseofmars
replied to your post “houseofmars
replied to your post “houseofmars
replied to your post …”

You haven’t been fair because you’ve made straw-man versions of my positions, and also put words into my side of the argument. I am new to tumblr, I didn’t consider what your fan-group was before commenting.

If you followed me without reading my blog description or anything w/e, I guess now you know lol. I am very griffguts focused and I’m not going to change my mind on that, and I don’t really care to debate it for the most part, which is why I only responded to one part of your comment:

“Intimacy between men is scorned by society if they’re not lovers.”

I don’t think I made a straw-man version of this or put words into your mouth since it’s a very unambiguous, extremely untrue statement. If you misspoke (though I doubt it considering your “homophobia is quite rare” followup) then feel free to correct yourself, otherwise I stand by my response.

Wait, Griffith is attracted to women? Where???

inablackmirror:

bthump:

don’t ask me lol, I read him as 110% gay

Well, I like Griffith so much because his thought process and belief system is just so utterly SAME, for me, down to the fact that if I was also a super smart super hot guy and was having a mental breakdown from Guts leaving I too would probably fuck Charlotte (and down to the fact that part of me feels personally attacked and had close to a literal life crisis after reading bthump’s psychological analysis of him lul….), and while it’s definitely a self destructive act and not an act of love or pleasure, it’s also because she’s …. hot is the wrong word? But I do think he is physically attracted to her. I also think he is attracted to Casca physically in some way. I think those attractions are twisted and warped and spring largely from psychological darkness, but that there is a genuine biological attraction.

I went through several times wondering if I was really bi, or if I only wanted to sleep with men to use them to punish myself because I associated it so much with having to do with conquest and punishment because of past trauma. But my therapist said that most likely if I wasn’t attracted to men to begin with I wouldn’t take it out that way… so that’s my reasoning for Griffith being attracted to women. I know it probably wasn’t a seriously question, though, so sorry for being so extra. I’ve been in a mood. xD

…further thoughts…. I do feel a lot like both times, I think there’s a pattern it’s a power thing for him, because that’s my projection. That Guts leaving made him feel helpless, so he fucked Charlotte because he could. That being physically wrecked from being tortured made him feel helpless, so he raped Casca to prove he could. I guess that doesn’t…really? prove he’s attracted to women?…. but I just feel like maybe something sexual wouldn’t be the route he’d take if he was totally unattracted? Just my personal feeling.

Fair enough, we all have our headcanons based on whatever we get out of the manga + our own experiences + what we find enjoyable/entertaining/reasonable/etc. No worries about answering seriously, I just gave a flippant answer lol bc ngl that’s kind of been my mood today, but god knows I’m all for getting serious and meta-y at any and all possible opportunities lol.

Anyway yeah, as another bi who definitely has done (and still sometimes does lol) a lot of “am I bi or gay?” soul searching I definitely get where you’re coming from even tho I see him as gay myself. Thanks for sharing your input on this tbh, and I hope this isn’t too personal to reblog tho I will ofc delete if you prefer.

houseofmars
replied to your post

“houseofmars
replied to your post “people on reddit saying that…”

You made a straw-man of my comment, and argued against it. Homophobia is quite rare and I doubt Berserk would fall in popularity if Guts and Griffith end up becoming a pair. Do I think they love each other? Sure, in a platonic way. Intimately, but nothing they’ve done with each other seems like whats Guts did with Casca.

“Homophobia is quite rare” ok we’re pretty much done then I think bc we’re clearly not going to agree if our understandings of the world are that wildly incompatible.

And again like, I don’t really care what your personal interpretation of Griffith and Guts’ relationship is, if you’re following me I assume you’re not totally against romantic interpretations of their relationship bc I state clearly what I’m about and talk about it all the time, and I’m happy to have people with differing opinions around, but if you’re looking to argue about their relationship then please find somewhere else to do it. I’ve made my case many many times and I’m not interested in trying to convince anyone. If you want to be convinced, well, I have several meta posts on the subject, linked in my sidebar. Enjoy.

Also, I want to second @madchen’s response:


how was that a straw
manning of your argument you literally say that intimacy and friendship
is scorned between men if theyre not lovers which is absolutely false
lmfao… and that scorn is literally homophobia, like its not an imaginary
root of oppression that gays are imagining. also casca/guts
pfffbbbfffbbfff moot point who cares there are plenty of het romance
movies where the protagonist screws a side character while actually
being in love with their best friend.

Finally, I realize this is a response to madchen, but

Oh, I think you’re reading implications
into the Berserk manga. The most solid demonstration of a romantic,
non-platonic relationship was between Guts and Casca. Also, you seem to
be reading lines into my comments. If you won’t approach my comments
fairly, it’s best not to respond.

Everything I and madchen have said has been in direct and reasonable response to what you’ve said as far as I can tell. I’m not sure how you think your comments are being approached unfairly, or what kind of response you’d prefer.

Anyway again like, have your own opinions on Berserk, idc, ship g*tsca, don’t ship griffguts, whatever, but why come to a griffguts heavy blog, one of the main purposes of which is to read implications into the Berserk manga, just to comment that you don’t see it while also proclaiming that homophobia isn’t a big problem?

people on reddit saying that griffith being gay would make the story “too simple” is the funniest thing bc they literally reduce griff to a lame villain of purE EVIL that wanted to kill guts and the band of the hawk all along

inablackmirror:

inablackmirror:

bthump:

I don’t even get how that would simplify anything lol, tbqh Griffith (and Guts) being gay would make the story make 50x more sense and also make it more complex.

But I mean we all know that “X can’t be gay that’s too simple/too reductive/you can’t reduce their relationship down to sexual attraction it’s more ~profound~ then that/X is beyond things like sexual orientation but also he’s straight/etc etc” is just badly disguised homophobia anyway.

But I also feel like deep entangled not specifically romantic relationships are unexplored. People are allowed to feel really intense and complicated emotions about friends and I feel like people ignore the fact that that exists, especially between men. I’m not particularly for or against the gayness in Berserk though, though I like Griffith to be bi because I project and he’s my fave.

Ok I lied it’s not that unexplored, but I feel it’s increasingly unacceptable and disbelieved in recent times.

This is true but I absolutely think the reason for that is because society is increasingly aware that gay people exist and are afraid of being associated with gayness. I mean ia that you wouldn’t get (i know I use this example all the time but it’s a good one) Kirk and Spock’s relationship now – I mean we clearly don’t, we have the reboot movies that downplay the hell out of their relationship and give Spock a het romance, because it’s become common knowledge that their friendship is often interpreted as gay and the creators are afraid of that association.

So yeah I’m all for portraying deep friendships and bonds between men! I personally am still gonna read them as sexual more often than not bc that’s what I enjoy doing, and if that fact scares people away from writing those friendships, that’s their problem, yk?

houseofmars
replied to your post “people on reddit saying that griffith being gay would make the story…”

The bond between Griffith and Guts doesn’t seem sexual at all. Intimacy between men is scorned by society if they’re not lovers. Our society is hypercritical and suspicious of love, admiration, and appreciation between men.

wow i wish i lived in your universe where intimacy between men is celebrated when they’re lovers and scorned when it’s platonic lmao, rather than, yk, my universe where intimacy between men is scorned (to put it incredibly mildly) when it’s sexual, or scorned by derisively suggesting it’s sexual, and platonic bonds between bros are near-universally celebrated as long as they’re appropriately no homoed.

i mean damn are there gay protagonists in blockbuster films in your universe? is the buddy cop genre the gay cop genre there? did kirk and spock make out after the “this simple feeling” monologue? are there more gay romcoms there than say, action movies featuring odd-couple platonic partnerships? hell, were there any mainstream gay romcoms there released in the 20+ years between in and out and love simon? sounds like a paradise.

like please, if society has a problem with depicting intimacy between men it’s because they’re scared it’s too gay, not because it’s not gay enough.

i promise you that mainstream society saying “lol they’re so gay” wrt a close friendship is not a compliment or wishful thinking, and they wouldn’t be more appreciative of that relationship if it was explicitly gay. it’s intended as an insult towards perceived homoeroticism because mainstream society is still very homophobic. The solution to this isn’t “omg men can be friends without being gay!” it’s “gay sexuality is something positive and there’s nothing wrong or shameful with interpreting something as gay, or mistaking someone for gay.”

like you are welcome to your opinion that guts and griffith share a purely platonic non-sexual intimacy. this isn’t in response to your opinion on griffguts – i disagree but yk, you do you, it’s all just personal interpretation. but don’t try to tell me society values gay men more than straight dudes who have friends.

people on reddit saying that griffith being gay would make the story “too simple” is the funniest thing bc they literally reduce griff to a lame villain of purE EVIL that wanted to kill guts and the band of the hawk all along

I don’t even get how that would simplify anything lol, tbqh Griffith (and Guts) being gay would make the story make 50x more sense and also make it more complex.

But I mean we all know that “X can’t be gay that’s too simple/too reductive/you can’t reduce their relationship down to sexual attraction it’s more ~profound~ then that/X is beyond things like sexual orientation but also he’s straight/etc etc” is just badly disguised homophobia anyway.

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this is one of those grand thematic statements that applies to a lot of berserk, like guts’ nearly obsessive need to fight monsters, or like, well, most sacrifices imo. But I’m thinking about how it applies to Griffith – the reverse, I mean. Griffith doesn’t really express fear, like he doesn’t really express most of his feelings, but what does he strike out?

Well, here he’s assassinated a bunch of would-be assassins, including the Queen. Gennon. Tyranny/the natural order of things in general lol.

And Guts.

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Or maybe more accurately, his feelings for Guts.

tbh one of my major criticisms of Berserk is that as far as I can tell the theme of fear has been mostly dropped, like, i’m pretty sure the last time we saw a suggestion of Guts being afraid for himself rather than of himself was 150 chapters ago with Slan, and that was like the only time post-Eclipse at all lol.

So I can’t exactly say that Guts surviving the Eclipse and then Femto/NeoGriffith pointedly failing to strike Guts out suggests his narrative is gonna end with falling under the wing of what he fears, but screw it that’s what I want and I’m using that panel up there to justify it.

i know i’ve been talking about casca a lot recently but I just kind of want to outline the biggest issue with her narrative imo:

Griffith throwing her a sword instead of personally killing the nobleman for her was presumably an important aspect of her character development. It’s why she decided to become a mercenary (”you know how to fight already”), it’s the beginning of the sense of pride and accomplishment she feels when she fights to survive.

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She is personally invested in her life as a mercenary, in being able to defend herself and fight for her survival, and in rising up with Griffith as well, carving out a new path.

To Casca, Griffith represents an end to the way of life she thought was only natural – starving and being caught in between skirmishes in her village, being exploited by those with more power.

He threw her a sword – Griffith represents her personal empowerment. Rather than someone else saving her, it’s her ability to save herself if she only has access to the right tools.

Casca knows he wants a kingdom, and she has a personal stake in seeing that kingdom come into existence. This isn’t really directly said anywhere, but we know she knows he plans to marry Charlotte to get to the throne, and we know she admires his dream, and we “know” she values her hard-won freedom to fight against people who would oppress her.

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This is extremely good shit when you look at it through that perspective – Casca admiring Griffith’s conviction and having a personal stake in the realization of his dream. Seeing Griffith’s vulnerabilities as well, and deciding to be his sword, to help strengthen him so she can see his dream become a reality, because it’s one she shares, and hell, even because on a personal level she loves him in whatever way – not because he saved her but because he enabled her to save herself. That’s fine as an addition.

BUT NOPE

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“My dream… had… already ended.”

Like, in this chapter, she’s literally like, ‘yo remember when I said I wanted to be Griffith’s sword? I was lying, I just want to fuck him, and since you’re the only one he wants to fuck and Charlotte’s the only one he has to fuck I’m gonna kill myself.”

Her dream isn’t to fight to survive, it’s not to help Griffith cut away his own path and carve out a place where a young poor girl from a downtrodden village who narrowly escaped becoming a slave could become a celebrated general. Her dream is to fuck Griffith.

Her monologue at the start of chapter 46 starts with how she couldn’t tear her eyes from Guts as he walked away from the Band, and how that freaked her out because she was afraid it meant her feelings for Griffith were a lie. “Afraid of all that, I lived with the intent of sacrificing myself for my unrequited feelings for Griffith.”

Literally, she led the Hawks for that year not even out of duty to them or loyalty to them or Griffith or the dream – just because of her romantic feelings for Griffith.

And that’s why she’s able to drop Griffith’s dream like a hot potato when she focuses on her romantic feelings for Guts instead and he invites her to leave the Hawks and come support his dream instead. She was never actually invested in Griffith’s dream, or her life as a mercenary, or even the Hawks as a family. When Guts left he eventually realizes it was a mistake because the Hawks were his family, the place where he belonged.

When Casca decides to leave with him, there’s no acknowledgement of that for her – no sense that she’s choosing to leave a family. It’s just taken as read that that’s what she should do because she’s in love with Guts and that is what motivates her.

And like, Guts’ dream is literally just “I want to fight whoever the fuck. I just want to kill a lot of people and get better and better at it.” Unlike Griffith’s it’s not noble, it doesn’t make the world a better place, it’s not based on any kind of ideals that can make Casca’s life better. But despite that Casca’s like, sounds great, where do I sign up to cheer you on from the sidelines?

(And we know if she went along with him she would end up on the sidelines rather than fighting alongside him, because that’s exactly what happens soon after with Wyald.

“I’m takin’ him one on one.”
“No matter what… I’ve gotta settle the score with him. With them.”)

And this is essentially why Casca’s narrative is misogynist as fuck. Not just because of her romantic feelings, but because of the way Casca having actual values and personal desires that aren’t romance-related was a fucking bait and switch lmao.

She was set up as someone who gave a shit about something, only for that to have been a lie all along because she only gives a shit about hooking up with either Griffith or Guts.

Honestly the more I think about it the more it boggles my mind how awful this is lol. Like chapters 45/46 aren’t even Casca accepting that Griffith’s dream ain’t happening anymore and finding consolation in having a new “place” in Guts’ heart or w/e. It’s straight up about Casca not just being in love with Griffith, but revealing that it’s been her sole motivation all along.

And like, lbr I choose to ignore this entirely because it’s so bad and so stupid and so flat and dumb and terrible, but man – it’s all there outlined clearly in straightforward dialogue :/

yesgabsstuff
replied to your post “I’ve just been having feelings about Casca lately that are probs 90%…”

You’re good! ❤️ And like it’s so hard to talk about because it pisses me off when this kind of personal/cultural wearing down of women’s self esteems happens to other women. And like as much as you would like to think that you somehow avoided all that you really don’t. Anyway sometimes how you get woke is you get tossed around by life a lot. I hope Casca gives them hell.

yeah it’s so all-encompassing and like, exhausting to think about sometimes lol. not to mention, yk, living it. And yeah here’s hoping.