If I was gonna place a bet, I’d say that we’re probably going to learn Void and Skull Knight’s backstory, but probably not the rest of the Godhand.
Skull Knight’s got a lot of parallels going on with Guts and Griffith, and there have been hints that Guts is in danger of repeating the past by doing the same thing he did – succumbing to the armour/revenge probably – so it seems likely that we’ll learn more of that past to shed light on the present.
I mean idk maybe we’ve already learned everything we need to know through hints and hearsay, but it wouldn’t surprise me if we do eventually get a fuller backstory on Void and Skull Knight and Gaiseric’s empire etc. But I think the rest of the Godhand’s backstories are gonna be left to our imaginations, because it just doesn’t seem too likely that they’ll be relevant.
lol despite this being a gr8 essay prompt I’m just going to brainstorm and list a bunch of stuff.
parallels:
larger-than-life figures often compared to storybook characters.
self-harming
while denying feeling responsible about people’s deaths. (Guts does
this a couple times in the Black Swordsman arc lol)
obsessions/dreams (castle vs revenge/becoming griffith’s equal/killing a bunch of stuff)
in
both cases dreams are defense mechanisms/escapes from the pain of the
world. “what do you fear in this place?” *points at castle* vs “when I’m
swinging this sword I don’t have to think about anything.”
personified inner darknesses (maybe you can become a real monster, like your friend)
guts deserting griffith vs neogriffith deserting guts, complete with maudlin comparison from guts
guts picking up the behelit in the black swordsman arc
farnese’s feelings for guts vs casca’s feelings for griffith
guts
similarly gathering followers with the phrase, “do what you want,”
maybe even things like griffith’s “blazing inferno” vs say serpico
musing on being affected by guts’ heat.
ok it’s a stretch but possibly both of them currently doing their damndest to forget the other?
denying feelings of guilt by rambling about their dreams in front of
Casca while dripping blood as Casca screams at them to stop hurting
themselves.
nightmares/visions of being children screaming apologies to corpses? i mean you could sum this up with “guilt issues” I guess lol:
ooh I’d argue the way both their dreams are based in childhood desires, a la:
this
this
(re: dude’s son who died in battle)
this
this
this
Contrasts:
Well there’s the surrendering to fate vs defying fate thing. Griffith embracing destiny by making the sacrifice. Relatedly ofc, defying God vs becoming the messiah.
I
have a post here that kind of boils down to saying that Griffith’s
narrative is about succumbing to evil in pursuit of the good, while
Guts’ narrative is about balancing the good and evil within himself. In a
way you could maybe say that Griffith is about harsh contrasts while
Guts is about shades of grey.
Guts allowing Casca to comfort him vs Griffith shutting her out.
Potentially the way Guts deliberately attempts to “let go” of his obsession with Griffith vs Griffith choosing his obsession,if
Guts’ revenge quest is meant to parallel Griffith’s kingdom. imo the
waters get muddy thanks to Guts’ dream sabotaging his relationship with
Griffith in the Golden Age vs Guts dream being the remnants of his
relationship with Griffith and sabotaging his “relationship” with Casca
post-Eclipse. Like, you could at the same time argue it’s a parallel in that they both try to let go of their obsession with the other by fixating on a goal (kingdom/fix casca). I mean the former is more likely, but fuck it I prefer the latter lol. (Hey Guts didn’t get the ominous armour of inner darkness until choosing Casca and since then his warnings about losing himself to it have gone hand in hand with warnings about Casca’s wishes not being Guts’ wishes. So in a way sticking with Casca is actually subtly tied to his inner darkness even if it is telling him to chase down Griffith. Hey you never know.)
Their Golden Age narratives parallel each other but in opposite directions which makes for a contrast: Griffith shifts from his dream as the most important thing to his relationship with Guts as the most important thing, while Guts shifts from his relationship with Griffith as the most important thing to his dream as the most important thing.
I guess there’s the obvious black vs white colour scheme thing lol. Which goes hand in hand with Griffith’s image as a knight in shining armour vs Guts’ scary black swordsman image. Tho I think it’s an oversimplification to say that eg NeoGriffith is evil with a good image and Guts is the opposite, which I’ve seen a lot lol.
Guts as a human struggling with his inner monster, NeoGriffith as a monster struggling with his inner human?
both struggle with loneliness and isolation but Griffith is social and Guts is a loner.
strategy vs… instinct? not quite the right word, but yk Griffith’s way of fighting is more intellectual and strategic and while Guts utilizes strategy a lot it’s more subconscious – like when he caught Silat’s chakrams because he didn’t overthink their trajectories.
Hmm I’m probably missing some obvious ones ngl, but I have to stop at some point and I feel like I’ve started scraping the bottom of the barrel lol.
Honestly I like most of them lol, Berserk has a lot of fun and enjoyable tertiary characters.
If I had to list a few faves, maybe: Anna, Zodd, Theresia, Silat, Rosine, Irvine, Raksas, Gaston, Luca, tbh I liked Nina too for being a ridiculous walking disaster, Gambino actually – not as a person obviously but I think he’s p well-written as an abusive parent, can I count ascended Ganeshka lol?, and I’ll stop there.
Yeah assuming Casca both opens the behelit and then does actually make a sacrifice, I’m bracing for it to be Farnese even though that would be really disappointing and the last thing Berserk needs is fewer female characters going forward lol. But she does seem like the obvious candidate.
On the other hand my alternate theory is that she could sacrifice whatever entity counts as her fetus, whether it’s the demon fetus incorporated into NGriff or the Moonlight Boy or both or whatever. Most sacrifices we’ve seen have been parent/child, and we just saw the fetus as Casca’s metaphorical heart during the quest to put her back together. The fragile heart being what you bury when you sacrifice someone who is “part of your soul.” Plus it would have the added benefit of totally crushing that burgeoning hope for a family vibe and making Guts extra sad. Yk, it wouldn’t just be sacrificing the fetus, it would be sacrificing the concept of a happily ever after in a way.
Idk that’s probably wishful thinking, lbr it would be too perfect for me to ever happen lol. But I really want it.
Also I dig the idea of someone sacrificing Griffith (idk whether it would be possible but it should be) but if Casca’s gonna open the behelit it’s probably going to happen like, right now, and if she sacrifices Griffith then Berserk is over and I feel like that would be a really sudden ending lol.
lol tbh I’ve been overthinking this question which is why it took me a while to answer. Like, weighing pros and cons, does the Eclipse rape count as bad character writing for Griffith/Femto/NGriff or does it at least make sense as long as you accept Miura’s premise that people’s inner darknesses are gonna be rapists 99% of the time, or is it a mistake that reflects on the character writing because of the weird tonal issues it raises with NGriff’s narrative? Like, is it a flaw more because it disaligns the way the author wants to portray Griffith vs the way the audience responds to Griffith? How is that weighted against Guts losing so much of what made him interesting through sometimes good, sometimes poor character development? If it’s believable character development is becoming less interesting still a flaw or just like, my opinion man?
And honestly fuck all that, idc. Griffith is the best written character because his highs are higher and more consistent and I find his lows easier to ignore bc they’re wrapped up in other bad writing, and there’s no way to give an objective answer to this anyway so I might as well let my opinions fly and gush for a while.
I just love his narrative.
From his first appearance as Femto taunting Guts by saying he’s beneath his notice to the hints that he certainly didn’t always feel that way to the first flashback of Griffith telling Guts he’s “the first person I’ve ever spoken to like this,” he’s introduced in such an interesting, intriguing way. Then in the Golden Age the way his apparent easy superiority and confidence eventually gives way to the reveal that he’s a giant mess of insecurities and guilt – and the way this reveal sheds so much interesting light on everything that came before, like his dream speech to Charlotte, his “I will choose the place where you die” speech to Guts, risking his life to save Guts, asking Guts to assassinate Julius, etc.
And the way all these apparent contradictions manage to come together to perfectly depict a man who hides behind an image so well that he believes the act himself, except in occasional moments of vulnerability when the truth seeps out.
Like there are so many interesting subtleties to dig into and so many contradictions to navigate but at the same time this one page tells you everything you really need to know to understand him:
This is a dude who will prostitute himself to a pedophile to prevent as many deaths as possible and then the next morning claim he doesn’t feel responsible for those deaths.
He will bury his guilt so hard that his reaction to a kid’s convenient death is triumphant delight, and then fret about killing hired goons and ask if Guts thinks he’s cruel, because Charlotte/his dream reinforces his image – his conviction – and Guts/love unravels it.
Also like, in general it’s fantastic how our impression of Griffith begins with the impression he leaves on everyone:
and then that is like, turned over and examined in the way Miura does, by showing how fucked up you have to be to embody a cool fictional archetype. (Incidentally I love how he does this with Guts’ antiheroism too. Like, hey turns out you gotta have a pretty fucked up life to become a cool monster fighting badass. tho even so Griffith’s is a little better imo because we spend more time with the image before revealing what’s underneath, whereas Guts didn’t even get a full chapter of tricking the audience into thinking he’s just a surly badass b4 the cracks started appearing.)
THEN his feelings for Guts come into it and complicate everything and we’re shown that there’s an internal war in Griffith between Guts and the dream that Griffith himself doesn’t even seem to realize until it’s too late. Which is just delightful bc god knows my favourite literary device is dramatic irony and idk if knowing more about Griffith’s inner conflicts than Griffith himself understands counts but damn it’s fun. And the moment when he does finally acknowledge it (”as he shines so glaring within me… the junk grows dull.”) is just intensely satisfying because we’ve been waiting for it since at least Casca’s “it’s as if… as if…” in chapter 18.
And the way everything cumulates so utterly perfectly in the sacrifice. Everything we see, everything in Griffith’s narrative, every moment leads directly to “I sacrifice,” and it all fits together immaculately. The dream as a defense mechanism, guilt, shame, emotional denial, “take all the frightening and sad things and cast them into the fire,” his desperate search for like, absolution, the way in the build up to the eclipse he’s stripped of everything he ever relied on as a defense, fucking love as the determining factor
the fact that he’s not sacrificing guts because he values the dream more, he’s sacrificing guts because he values guts more. like that’s just so fucking good, come on.
Honestly, Femto and NeoGriffith are both great as symbols too – Femto as everything Griffith was ashamed of but without the shame; NGriff as pure conviction, as the perfect image with none of the driving guilt. I can’t exactly say they’re great characters since the whole point of them is that they’re not fleshed out or relatable or understandable as humans one can empathize with, but they’re great conceptually. It’s cool to see the fully fleshed out, contradictory Griffith and then see him divided and carved up into representational aspects of himself.
Also the few hints of more are super satisfying with the full weight of Griffith’s human narrative behind them – Femto letting Guts escape, the unfrozen heartbeat, you know what I’m about.
And idk at the end of the day with Griffith Miura successfully (IMO) depicted a dude who would choose to sacrifice a group of people I really liked and become a demon for the greater good, for petty reasons, and out of fear of his own feelings, all at the same time, and make me empathize with that decision, and that seems like it would be hard to do. I mean granted, I’m in the minority when it comes to empathizing with him, but idk I can only answer this from my perspective lol.
Anyway to wrap this up I’m plugging this thing again because really could I have ever given any answer other than “the dude whose character arc I wrote over fifteen thousand words about”?
Honestly, ihni where that line is drawn lol, I don’t think I’ll be any help. Sorry, I wish I could give you a good thorough answer, but I‘d just as likely be completely wrong lol and accidentally advise plagiarism or smthn.
I hope you figure it out though and write your thing because any story inspired by some aspects of Berserk is probably worth writing!
@madchen said: berserk is literally an edgy spin off of
devilman and the dark souls franchise is heavily influenced by berserk
for like. a frame of reference. good artists steal etc etc
@griff-guts said:
also to add onto what maddy said which i 100% agree with: the themes of
berserk are rly quite common in literature and other fiction. being
betrayed by a best friend, isolation and loneliness, dreams becoming
destructive, the nature of humanity and evil etc are all big parts of
berserk you can transfer into just about anything. berserk as a story
rly isn’t that revolutionary or original when you strip it down to its
essentials. its the writing, the tone, the characterization tht make it
original
I just want to add that the character of Laurent from the book series Captive Prince is also loosely based on/inspired by Griffith, and it’s not really the plot points that make that obvious (although there’s that too), it’s his, you know, “inner turmoil,” the themes around his feelings and such. So think about the themes of Berserk that you like and try exploring them in ways Miura, and maybe also other writers, didn’t.
omg lol i just started reading captive prince the other day. i was already enjoying it but if this is true i’m like, extra into it
i can’t decide if the first panel is a prelude to these, a contrast to these, or if i’m just seeing patterns where they don’t exist lol
concept: griffith reading outloud to guts while they’re lounging around in bed
I can only think of a couple suggestions lol, and I might’ve been unnecessarily detailed since neither ship is all that obscure and you’ve probably heard of them, but w/e you gave me an excuse to compare them to griffguts lol and I’m taking it. so ty.
The first is Ryokira (manga version especially), which is kind of obvious and often compared to Griffguts since Berserk is partly inspired by Devilman. Both are friends to enemies ships, both involve inner darknesses and divine transformations/reveals, both have very convoluted borderline incestuous resurrection plots lmao, both have a blond in love with his bff and jealous of his bff’s sort-of-not-really girlfriend, both have one character ruining his whole life goal because he fell in love.
Ryokira is nice because it’s canon – even requited canon in the sequels, though you have to read Devilman Lady for that, and that’s a tall order lmao. There’s some fuck shit going on w/ homophobic (and transphobic) concepts of how same-sex attraction and gender intersect in both Devilman and Devilman Lady, but if you can power thru that it’s def worth reading the original manga, and like… worth reading a summary of DL lol.
And the other is H@nnigram from NBC’s H@nnibal!
tbh there are actually a surprising amount of similarities imo:
mutual pining
friends to enemies
betrayal
one character begins to succumb to his inner darkness because he wants revenge on the other
one character is so in love with the other he destroys his own life and that love is the direct cause of his subsequent imprisonment
one character tries to escape his own life-destroying feelings by killing the other and fails (fails way harder than Griffith tbh, who at least partially succeeded)
both characters are lonely – one is antisocial, one is very social but hides his true self – and their connection is the only thing that assuages that loneliness for both of them.
one character reacts to perceived rejection after letting the other “see” him very badly
one character thinks about the other after (and probably during) sex
unlike Griffith H@nnibal is “evil” from the beginning so h@nnigram’s initial friendship has layers of deception and it’s pretty fucked up, and most of the romantic subtext and text happens after they become enemies. However also unlike Griffguts, H@nnigram is canonized at the end, and none of the het love interests last. Plus there’s no sexual assault.
Tbh I actually highly, highly recommend H@nnibal. It’s very weird and surreal with the most fun (imo) self-awarely pretentious bordering on campy tone, and 3 of the 4 main characters end up in same-sex romances. Also like, the Hannigram journey of ever-escalating subtext to absolutely incredible proportions until they finally just admit they’re in love is the most fun I’ve ever had watching a tv show ngl. And at only 3 seasons w/ 13 eps each it doesn’t take too long to get through.
vriska and terezi from homestuck are the
femslash hyper intense it’s complicated and our grief moves allegorical
mountains equivalent to griffguts that everyone whines about wanting
that being said
homestuck is literally a million words long and requires a good
appreciation of detail and meta to get into but its funny and enjoyable
you just have to chill out
oh yeah i’ve seen you mention them a lot in comparison
i
can’t lie i’m never gonna be able to get into homestuck but it’s good
to throw out there for anyone more able to read it than i am lol
I can only think of a couple suggestions lol, and I might’ve been unnecessarily detailed since neither ship is all that obscure and you’ve probably heard of them, but w/e you gave me an excuse to compare them to griffguts lol and I’m taking it. so ty.
The first is Ryokira (manga version especially), which is kind of obvious and often compared to Griffguts since Berserk is partly inspired by Devilman. Both are friends to enemies ships, both involve inner darknesses and divine transformations/reveals, both have very convoluted borderline incestuous resurrection plots lmao, both have a blond in love with his bff and jealous of his bff’s sort-of-not-really girlfriend, both have one character ruining his whole life goal because he fell in love.
Ryokira is nice because it’s canon – even requited canon in the sequels, though you have to read Devilman Lady for that, and that’s a tall order lmao. There’s some fuck shit going on w/ homophobic (and transphobic) concepts of how same-sex attraction and gender intersect in both Devilman and Devilman Lady, but if you can power thru that it’s def worth reading the original manga, and like… worth reading a summary of DL lol.
And the other is H@nnigram from NBC’s H@nnibal!
tbh there are actually a surprising amount of similarities imo:
mutual pining
friends to enemies
betrayal
one character begins to succumb to his inner darkness because he wants revenge on the other
one character is so in love with the other he destroys his own life and that love is the direct cause of his subsequent imprisonment
one character tries to escape his own life-destroying feelings by killing the other and fails (fails way harder than Griffith tbh, who at least partially succeeded)
both characters are lonely – one is antisocial, one is very social but hides his true self – and their connection is the only thing that assuages that loneliness for both of them.
one character reacts to perceived rejection after letting the other “see” him very badly
one character thinks about the other after (and probably during) sex
unlike Griffith H@nnibal is “evil” from the beginning so h@nnigram’s initial friendship has layers of deception and it’s pretty fucked up, and most of the romantic subtext and text happens after they become enemies. However also unlike Griffguts, H@nnigram is canonized at the end, and none of the het love interests last. Plus there’s no sexual assault.
Tbh I actually highly, highly recommend H@nnibal. It’s very weird and surreal with the most fun (imo) self-awarely pretentious bordering on campy tone, and 3 of the 4 main characters end up in same-sex romances. Also like, the Hannigram journey of ever-escalating subtext to absolutely incredible proportions until they finally just admit they’re in love is the most fun I’ve ever had watching a tv show ngl. And at only 3 seasons w/ 13 eps each it doesn’t take too long to get through.
Honestly, ihni where that line is drawn lol, I don’t think I’ll be any help. Sorry, I wish I could give you a good thorough answer, but I‘d just as likely be completely wrong lol and accidentally advise plagiarism or smthn.
I hope you figure it out though and write your thing because any story inspired by some aspects of Berserk is probably worth writing!
@madchen said: berserk is literally an edgy spin off of
devilman and the dark souls franchise is heavily influenced by berserk
for like. a frame of reference. good artists steal etc etc
@griff-guts said:
also to add onto what maddy said which i 100% agree with: the themes of
berserk are rly quite common in literature and other fiction. being
betrayed by a best friend, isolation and loneliness, dreams becoming
destructive, the nature of humanity and evil etc are all big parts of
berserk you can transfer into just about anything. berserk as a story
rly isn’t that revolutionary or original when you strip it down to its
essentials. its the writing, the tone, the characterization tht make it
original
I’ve literally never read a more shallow and lame interpretation of a character before, omggg ��
lol that’s not a character interpretation, that’s a critique of berserk. I literally just quoted her dialogue and explained what sucks about it.
But hey if you have a deep and meaningful interpretation of her chapter 45-46 monologue about how first she was in love with Griffith and then she started feeling things for Guts and that’s the root of every decision she’s made since she was twelve, I’d love to hear it. It’s not like I enjoy Miura’s misogynistic writing.
Like, she literally, straightforwardly describes basing her entire identity around her romantic feelings for Griffith, to the point where when she started feeling something for Guts she felt fundamentally changed and it freaked her out. Idk how you’d defend that writing choice or why you’d want to tbh.