i cant believe miura gave us real power bottom griffith imagery not only does he subdue guts by standing on his sword but he wins the fight by looping an arm around guts fist/arm and holding him there
Yeah I don’t think there’s any actual canon on apostles and how monstrous they look or don’t look, but it’s something I’ve wondered about. This is kind of what I theorize, that if they’ve succumbed more to their “monstrousness” they probably always look a little off, but if they’re one of the more chill, “human” seeming apostles their appearance could reflect that.
Like… since apostles transform from human to monster, and they have a scale of in between forms (like Rosine looking more human with Jill, looking more buggy by default, and going full moth fighter jet while fighting Guts), I do wonder if the extent of their transformation relies on their emotions and how much they allow their negative emotions (like bloodlust) to run rampant. Like w/ Guts succumbing to the armour, same kinda deal. And maybe it’s harder for them to look fully human, like they have to have a greater emotional control/tie to their humanity.
Kind of a pretentious meta-y reason lol, this is one of my fave post golden age chapters because I feel like Sonia’s thoughts on loneliness are extremely relevant to NeoGriffith and whatever residual feelings for Guts he has, based on how Miura frames him here, and like, the themes of Berserk in general.
Yk, Sonia is lonely because she’s different from everyone else, she briefly bonds with her Guts’ narrative counterpart and misses her, we get a conversation with Irvine about how relationships humanize and isolation dehumanizes, we get our usual light = companionship, darkness = isolation imagery, and then Sonia dreams of her and Schierke in the moonlight. Followed by the page of NeoGriffith surrounded by darkness, alone under that moon.
So “A dream of a kite and an owl playing in a moonlit forest” is roundaboutly griffguts related as far as I’m concerned bc Sonia and Schierke seem like a v strong parallel to me, and I like being needlessly subtle w/ my references sometimes lol.
I’m not gonna argue that Guts doesn’t care about her at all lol, but I do think the fact that she’s a reminder of the pain Griffith caused is a very important aspect, and is likely to come up again since Miura mentioned it as the reason he kept her alive (ie to keep Guts from moving on) in a 2017 interview.
I don’t think that’s the only reason Guts is sticking with Casca now, I think there are like, a bunch of other reasons as well. The fact that she’s a reminder of his past with the Hawks and he wants to bring her mind back to recover a piece of that idyllic past. The fact that he wants to try to move on from Griffith after Griffith pronounced himself free of him tbqh, and focusing on a new objective is a good way to attempt that. (And incidentally I think it’s purposeful that keeping her around as a reminder of the Eclipse and trying to move on thru taking her to Elfhelm are contradictory, but that doesn’t mean Guts can’t be motivated by both reasons.)
And also the fact that he does genuinely care about her. Like even if I don’t think he’s actually in love with her, and I don’t, Guts cares about his friends and comrades. He saved her even back when he hated her, when she fell off that cliff. His revenge campaign was damaging to himself in part because like… by abandoning Casca he kind of betrayed himself, because at his core he wants to help the people he cares about, he wants to be there for them. Abandoning her in a cave for 3 years is like, the exact opposite of our (chronologically) first image of him, when he was three and held his mother’s hand as she died.
So yk, another aspect is that at his best, Guts stands up and does the right thing for the people he considers friends and family, and at his worst, he fucks off and leaves them to fend for themselves. And Guts is trying to be more his best and less his worst.
Oh and ofc relatedly he’s trying to atone for leaving Griffith in the snow. He draws that parallel a lot when he decides to focus on Casca lol.
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griffith: time to enter guts’ mind and prove to myself ONCE AND FOR ALL that he never cared for me and that i was nothing but A FOOL for falling in love with him *enters*
Thanks for responding! I appreciate it. Love this stuff. And yeah I agree that Griffith definitely cares for Casca, and that’s part of what makes this scene so tragic. Manipulating Casca’s sympathy in order to make her stay, in order to make Guts stay, doesn’t lessen the fact that Griffith cares for her. But Casca isn’t Guts, and that distinction seems to be highlighted here. Griffith seems to be responding to a) Guts possibly leaving again and b) the relationship with Casca that he no longer—
has, now that Casca
and Guts have grown closer. He’s probably trying to be that person Casca
knew him as, as you pointed out, and doing it from the point in his
life furthest from that past glory. The tragedy is layered here, and I
personally enjoy the idea of Griffith using someone he genuinely cares
for (Casca) in order to reach for Guts, who always seems out of reach. I
also agree that it foreshadows the eclipse and demonstrates the
consistency of Griffith’s character when he makes the
sacrifice before the Godhand. Thanks for listening to me go on, hah.
thank you for responding too, this is a fun topic to talk about!
yeah I basically agree with everything you said here I think. Honestly the lead-up to the Eclipse was so good at making everything as depressing and painful as possible for everyone involved, and everything you’ve described is a huge part of it.
“Casca isn’t Guts, and that distinction seems to be highlighted here“
Yeah v true, and I think it also effectively parallels Griffith and Casca’s feelings for Guts, the way Casca and Guts’ feelings for Griffith have been paralleled at times (eg during the cave conversation where they both see Griffith as out of reach, and potentially even believing that he desires the other, considering Guts tries to set them up afterwards. Or during the rescue mission where Guts thinks that he has to accept Casca’s lingering feelings for Griffith because he’s not over him/hasn’t unbound himself either). Like Griffith isn’t Casca’s first choice either now, she feels obligated to stay with him, and in the dream sequence Guts’ absence seems to diminish them both.
And ia that the like… tension between genuinely caring for someone but using them (and later, sacrificing them) despite that is great, like the sacrifice wouldn’t be anywhere near as interesting if Griffith didn’t actually gaf about the Hawks. And we see that attitude in his general existence as a mercenary leader too – like when he says to Guts “I will decide the place where you die,” or positions the Hawks with their backs to the river during the Doldrey battle so they have no choice but to give it their all bc they can’t retreat. Like his life is also on the line, so it’s not exactly cruel or unfair, but it is ruthless and it’s great fuel for the guilt issues he denies.
But I’m hugely into the contrast between like, Griffith’s feelings and his almost desperate need to deny them/bury them lol.
I should mention: even
though our interpretations differ in some ways, I don’t mean to argue!
I’m interested in your take and enjoy the other metas you’ve posted. I
agree that Casca really isn’t done justice in Berserk at all, and I
honestly hate that so much story has been devoted to “saving” her
post-eclipse instead of focusing on what made her badass and
sympathetic. That said, I can see why she’s used the way she is plotwise
with respect to Guts and Griffith; it’s part of the tragedy for me.
(I just wish Casca’s suffering didn’t
center so often on the fact that she’s a woman. Leaves a bad taste in my
mouth, like womanhood is the only source of suffering for someone like
her.)
Same same. Like I have strong opinions and I definitely don’t shy away from sharing them lol but I’m happy to have people disagree with me and get the opportunity to discuss them and get new ideas to consider etc, it’s all part of the fun of being in fandom as long as everyone’s fairly chill. I’m interested in your takes too, whether you agree or disagree 🙂
And yeah cosigned wrt Casca. It’s such a shame to me because I feel like she had so much potential and some great scenes as an awesome character, but she gets hamstrung by the writing so much, her role stuck between Guts and Griffith, and how every aspect of her character revolves around being a woman, cumulating in the Eclipse and the destruction of her character, and like… damn, yk? It’s a bit hard to take lol.
Nice analysis. I agree with you for the most part, and have something to add that seems complementary to what you’ve already mentioned: Griffith is showing Casca exactly how pathetic he is in order to manipulate her into staying, and thereby get Guts to stay as well. But Casca spoils this plan when she reminds Guts that if he is Griffith’s friend and equal, then he must leave. This is the moment that Griffith realizes that he is responsible for Gut’s departure that day in the snow. It’s tragic.
(Cont.) Low as he was,
Griffith seems to still be trying to manipulate the situation to get
what he wants (Guts to stay), even going so far as to weaponize his
broken body. But this, like you said, is total desperation, and when it
doesn’t work Griffith has nothing else to try. It really cements the
idea that Casca was, is, and always will be just a means to an end for
Griffith, which is heartbreaking for Casca but one of my favorite parts
of the series.
Thank you!
yeah i definitely agree that Casca is a means to an end to Griffith here – he certainly isn’t asking her to stay because he wants her in his life in particular, and ia that he’s most likely hoping Guts will stay too if Casca stays, since he now has an idea that they’re together. I don’t think that’s all she is to him – he genuinely cares for her, or else he wouldn’t be able to sacrifice her lol, and wouldn’t try opening up to her in the river after Gennon, wouldn’t try to save her when Wyald grabs her despite being unable to do a thing, etc. But their feelings for each other definitely aren’t equal and it does make me feel for Casca.
(and on a related subject I have a lot of feelings about how Casca is constantly used by both Griffith and Guts as an emotional and physical like, bridge between them, from Casca warming Guts all the way back in the beginning, to Guts assaulting her to “get closer and closer to Griffith,” to just about everything in between. Her role in the story is very depressing to me bc I really love her and she has some amazing moments and scenes, but overall Berserk absolutely doesn’t do her justice.)
Tho idk I wouldn’t really consider Griffith to be deliberately manipulating Casca here or “weaponizing” his body. His sexualized offer is pretty straightforward, and I don’t think he intended to come across as pathetic as he does – Casca comforting him with a hand on his shoulder is, imo, the opposite of what he wanted. He wanted to be the comforter, but he can’t fill that role anymore.
But this is a v ambiguous scene so it’s not like there’s not plenty of room for different interpretations.
you're the only one 