yesgabsstuff:

mastermistressofdesire:

Was I the only one who thought they might actually kiss in this scene the First time you ever saw/ read it? Because I did . I was ready to react. I was about to go on all those sites and say. “ YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD FOOL ME INTO THINKING THIS WAS NOT GAY. I WAS NOT FOOLED. I ALWAYS KNEW!! “

But it never happened.

And I was like “oh” as I calmly shut the page I’d just opened to rant and go nuts on.

So, I thought Griffith would go for a kiss after taking Guts’ face in his hand and saying he belonged to him forever and ever. This scene also is a good place for it.

If this were a man and a woman everyone and their mother would be making gif sets of this and saying how they were so close to kissing after having the “what is this relationship” talk only to be interrupted by the plot. They would be doing this even if they never verbally said their feelings and everyone would accept it as a fact because straight people.

i never thought they’d kiss because I never expect anything I really want to happen lol. but like, this scene is as romantic as you can get without a kiss. if one of them was a woman people would call you delusional for suggesting their feelings are platonic lmao, like:

gentle breeze wafting griffith’s long hair across his face? check
declaration of feelings while looking away followed by a turn and hard eye contact? check
awkward, surprised response? check
inconvenient interruption? checkmate

going back to the manga but you cannot look at these panels and then tell me with a straight face that we’re supposed to think their feelings are brotherly or whatever:

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and yk what while i’m on this and since yesgabsstuff brought up the duel, you don’t have your characters ask each other if they’re gay, fail to confirm or deny, and say things like, “if you win you can have my sword or my ass,” if you’re not trying to point the audience in a certain direction.

it’s subtext, but it’s like, Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence style subtext, where it’s not just a nice bonus if u recognize the symbolism or the gay audience reaching bc we’re desperate, but it’s the clear intended reading.

In fact, I’ll go one further – the very first parallel we have for Guts and Griffith, the first example we’re given to contextualize the mysterious, intense relationship between Guts and Griffith/Femto and the nature of the sacrifice – which we already know is what happened between them – is the Count and his wife. “The person you loved the most and hated the most!” Cue that shot of Femto looking slightly over his shoulder so there can be no doubt who also buried his fragile human heart.

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(like i just re-read this scene and i love it so much because everything leading up to these panels exists to make the audience go “what the fuck is their deal?” like puck even directly asks “what happened between those two?” And then we get the Count’s story and it’s like, ohhh ok i guess they were in love at one point and then betrayal and despair followed and now one’s a demon and one’s really pissed off. gotcha. And then nothing in the golden age disabuses you of that notion.)

(ps “That’s right… you couldn’t do it. You couldn’t cut away half of yourself.” The Godhand to the Count. “[…]And that unkingly half of yours shall all be gathered then in that place.” Skull Knight to Guts.)

About Charlotte and Theresia

just-berserk-things:

So first of all I want to say I don’t want to step on anyone’s feet, please respect my opinion and I’ll respect yours. You’re welcome to discuss this matter with me though, I’m always open to new ideas. 

Okay, so what I’ve been thinking about for a little while now was that someone said that Charlotte’s “obsession” with Griffith is creepy. I was asking myself, is she really obsessed or are we missing something here…? 

Keep reading

bthump:

at this point is there even any functional thematic difference between guts and an apostle

and i don’t mean like guts descending into monstrosity, with or without the armour he’s doing pretty good on that front. i mean like these apostles acting humane and reasonable

idk i feel like… a sacrifice seems to have been treated as a moral event horizon there’s no going back from, since, y’know, it turns you into a monster and whatnot. but despite the literal transformation, both in power/physicality and personality, apostles still get choices which can mould them.

i mean we got puck’s whole thing about how count slug was still human at his core, and the more he denied it the more obvious it was, and then he failed to sacrifice his daughter. we have rosine dying while filled with remorse.

i feel like maybe apostles embody the idea that some decisions are permanent. peekaf leaving home and never being able to return, that sort of thing.

sometimes there are no second chances, the people you screwed over are gone forever, and you yourself are forever changed. but despite that you still don’t have to live consumed by… all that bullshit apostles are so into. sadism and bloodlust and cannibalism and rape etc. consumed by the swirl of negative emotions, let’s say.

i’d like to get a real spotlight on an apostle like zodd (or grunbeld I guess, sure gimme that novel) who has principles, and who still strives to like… make good choices, yk? they’re not gonna redeem themselves back to becoming human and bringing their sacrifice back to life, but hey, like, do all apostles end up in hellnado?

it seems to me that apostles have the same choice guts has – succumb to the beast or make it your controlled weapon – if perhaps on a higher difficulty setting due to being monsterized, and i wanna see more.

so scrolling past this and i remembered another thing i noticed while re-reading black swordsman stuff:

so yeah what this implies to me is that apostles are not “demonkind” by default. presumably their souls can still vibrate away from the hell whirlpool.

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re-reading black swordsman stuff for my gambino/griffith comparison post and i just want to point this out with visuals this time. the sheer number of guts/griff parallels during this arc is ridic but this is my fave.

Gambino and Griffith parallels got me all messed up

mastermistressofdesire:

silversoulwithlove:

You guys remember when Guts was sold to Donovan, and Donovan told him that his adoptive father Gambino sold him out. Guts went to Gambino the next day to see if it was true and Gambino was just like ‘what up, fam?’ So Guts didn’t believe that Gambino sold him out because he was like Gambino wouldn’t be acting this chill if he did. And then it turns out Gambino did sell him out.

It’s reminded me of that seen where Griffith and Guts meet at the band of the Hawk memorial grave that Rickert made. And Guts was like how dare you and Griffith was acting like it was no big deal like he hadn’t done anything wrong, Like everything was good. Do you think that Guts may on top of the pain of losing his band was like this is Gambino situation all over again and is questioning everything he ever had with Griffith.

Like it’s not just me right? This is definitely some kind of parallel, also while were on the subject, Jesus guts can’t catch a break for nothing in this world goddamn.

Well what can I say , it’s true.

Hi im reading berserk for the 1st time and im a little bit confused about farnese and serpicos relationship. i know that after serpico found out theyre half siblings he said their relationship became merely a mistress-servant one or smth but tbh it seems to me he still feelings for farnese (see: the manga focusing on his reaction after finding out farnese and roderick are engaged,him blushing when seeing farnese naked after she took a bath etc)? meanwhile farnese feelings seem to have (contd)

mastermistressofdesire:

(contd) snuffed out (ironically so considering shes the one who doesnt know theyre related). basically: do you think that serpico and farnese are still reespectively knowingly and unknowingly incesting lmao?


That’s a pretty solid observation to be honest.

Hmm…I personally don’t think they are presently mutually incesting exactly. Because as you said Farnese’s interests have since shifted from the moment she ran into his arms as a teenager.

I think Farnese seeking out relationships had been for the longest time a way for her to find a meaning to herself and her own identity. Serpico was the first person in her life who seemed to have some sort of permanence in her life ( contrast with her ever absent parents and frequently changing maids and caretakers) and she was afraid of losing that and wanted to secure it.

I don’t think her offering herself naked to Serpico had anything to do with romantic attraction to him, she was rather using it as a bargaining chip to try and convince him to stay.(Stay with her and leave with her) Farnese is aware that she is hard to be around, she has scared off scores of people before, and she’s aware that she has since treated Serpico in less than kind ways, maybe because she wanted to test if he too, like everyone else would eventually leave.

But now that he hasn’t, she realises she doesn’t want him to. And she wants to give him an incentive to stay. Offering sex is her way of saying “here, this has something in it for you too.”

She’s using it as currency and it takes her a significant swallowing of pride in order to do so. So having Serpico reject her point blanc is a huge blow to both her desire of finally being free of her current lifestyle as well as the sense of power she had temporarily felt at the prospect of being able to secure him by using something that was hers to give.

I am not sure how far you are currently into the manga so I don’t want to talk about future events but let me know if there’s any other part which you’d like me to talk about with respect to Farnese specifically?

But I always read Farnese’s feelings towards serpico as dependence and affection but not as attraction. I feel what she draws from Serpico has almost always been comfort and security and she herself doesn’t necessarily want more from him but was willing to indulge in more if it allowed here to secure the comfort she derived from him.

Of course it is possible that now that her relying on Serpico for security has lessened to an extent, her feelings could morph but the current narrative has her pretty occupied with other relationships- Guts, Roderick, Casca and as of now I don’t think her feelings for Serpico have been given a chance to morph Except for the fact that her affection and concern is now manifested in more healthy ways .

Serpico though, is a whole different ballgame.

Serpico owes his identity to his relation to Farnese. It’s difficult to tell what his feelings are unless he himself spells it out for us and the one thing that is clear to us is that whatever his feelings for Farnese are- they are intense as hell.

In Serpico’s mind, his life is irrevocably entangled with Farnese’s. And he himself hasn’t quite let go of the childhood imagery they had of them both being damaged, twisted people who inevitable ended up twisting and entangling together.

And while he realises that Farnese has since grown, untwisted. He himself feels left alone and is trying his best to keep up  but at the same time forcing himself to hold back and let Farnese take the decisions, she needs to take. Because once again Serpico’s self image is to do with being the provider of what Farnese needs. Serpico changes as Farnese’s requirements of him change. And yes I think your observations about Serpico’s lingering feelings is interesting because I don’t think it’s the knowledge of them being half-siblings that stopped Serpico in the woods when Farnese approached him ( they were already to self-confessed twisted for that to be that big a deal in the atmosphere that had been set up at that point) Rather I think it was the knowledge that this wasn’t what Farnese truly needed at that point which stopped him., he’d seen through her plot, he’d noticed her trembling and Serpico models his actions on Farnese’s wants we never even see his own. There is no doubt in my mind that if Farnese had ever truly wanted to start a sexual relationship with him, he would have obliged. 

Would he have wanted to?

The Godhand knows.

Maybe.

I sure as hell don’t.

@gatsca said: I LOVE the “did you get so caught up in
the moment that you didn’t think about the consequences?” with things
golden age guts said, ie like, not realizing where it was he belonged?
as well as like, basically everything that went down in the golden age.
they were all so young.  god

yesss that was exactly my first thought when i got to that panel too. i love that he calls the flower spirit a “kid” because guts really was. (but hey that gives me hope that he’s going to continue to mature out of it)

guts says weakness, i say whatever the opposite of the hound is. yk all that good humanity stuff.

idk about analysing this too much. i’m just calling it a microcosm of a cycle guts is in between losing his (positive) humanity thru his sword and safeguarding his humanity with a little help from his friends, and ofc it ends ambiguously. idk that it’s foreshadowing except as far as this struggle is going to continue. (though ngl the hill of flowers gives me hill of swords vibes so… mb)

like, i see what you did there, but what does this really mean? should i be drawing more parallels throughout this whole flashback? is there foreshadowing buried here? if i point out that this dude gave guts what seemed like an escape but was really a trick, but guts’ actual escape from being fated to help build a castle comes when he selflessly helps someone else, is it reaching to suggest that this dude symbolizes rage or obsession or smthn? or is he just a dick conveniently and randomly saying relevant things and and setting up this mini-narrative?

oh wait doesn’t he come back to do something less dickish? mb i should wait til i re-read to that bit lol.

ok tbc when i finish this flashback probs

do you think there’s any parallels between guts and griffith’s relationship and farneze and serpico’s?

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

mastermistressofdesire:

Oh yeah.

Oh hell yeah.

There’s definitely some moments between Farnese and Serpico  which personally appear to me as echoes of golden age dynamics between Guts and Griffith, the wording in some cases seeming similar enough to almost  seem like an intentional parallel.

But the parallels are also not extremely consistent ,especially in the frequent exchanging of the respective roles within the dynamic between Farnese and Serpico. In some cases it’s almost more of a twisting around of the original than a parallel. Taking into account that despite the similarities that I will go into in a moment, these are four very distinct characters.

The instance which immediately comes to mind when you say parallel is the instance when Farnese asks Serpico if he hates her. It’s very similar to Griffth’s- “You must think me vile.” moment.

There’s some other Farnese- Griffith parallels.

1. Using Control over specific people to deal with their feelings of loneliness or helplessness. Referring to Serpico/ Guts as property is a big part of this ,as is the fact that despite saying it neither of them actually mean it.

2. Farnese/Griffith starting as the commander, owner.

3.Self-flagellation

4. Guts love.

5.There’s actually some deeper things which I will come back to most probably.

6. A slight similarity in visual design.

7. Oh and them being turned on by very fucked up things and having some rather strange interpretations of sexuality and ending up in bizarre sexual situations.

the Guts-Serpico parallels come from them both being the concerned right  hand men to these slightly volatile people.

there’s Griffith and Serpico parallels in this sort of veiled intensity and ruthlessness behind a calm facade. not to mention similar fighting styles.

And the fact that both of them are very single mindedly focussed on their goals which if interfered with make them prone to homicide. With Griffth it was the castle ( or so he thought) with serpico it’s protecting Farnese (or so he thinks)

and the Guts and Farnese parallel in that both of them start with being unsure of what their place is in the world and start to try the road to discovering themselves .

With Farnese/Griffith parallels I could also see a potential argument that they both rely on extreme adherence to a conviction as a defense mechanism. With Farnese it was her religion, with Griffith it’s his dream. I wonder if seeing the origins of how Farnese found her conviction could actually shed light on how Griffith came to hold the dream above all else tbh. yk, fear and wanting to become what’s feared. but that’s just un-backed-up speculation.

(also for point 7: what “very fucked up things” are you referring to that turn Griffith on? is that more of a Femto reference or am I completely forgetting something?)

Actually that Farnese/ Griffith parallel makes perfect sense. It seems very fitting and plausible.

Oh yeah,regarding point 7, I think I discussed this with someone before and came to the conclusion that it could be a very subjective interpretation I made of a certain translation of the manga and at this point I don’t remember if it was the Darkhorse translation or another one but the conclusion hit me so hard at the time- it kind of stuck.

It’s actually during the Golden age arc, during the Griffith-Charlotte scene, in the version I read Griffith asks Charlotte if she’s scared and when she doesn’t reply verbally he says- “Sad things…scary things…if these things can arouse you then-” and trails off in true Griffith fashion.

but of course he’s saying it with that distracted stare which Griffith uses when he’s actually talking to himself .

And idk really, my first reaction was- okay that’s…ouch.

And I later thought about it and realised it might not necessarily be the right interpretation. But it was warped enough to be an idea i forgot to let go of.

And then when we’re talking about Grifith and sex, it’s hard not to touch upon the Gennon angle. And it’s not that I think Griffith was in any was aroused by that interaction, I just think that from what we know that was most probably Griffith’s first sexual experience and somehow the connection between fear, unpleasantness, sorrow and sexuality may have been made then and stuck.

It would explain the nature of Griffith’s later sexual encounters a little too. The fact that he sees these things as innately linked. And sex for Griffith is intrinsically associated with otherwise unpleasant emotions.

The first experience colouring future interactions aspect is brought up with Guts as well , with him choking Casca as they made love.

There’s actually also a connection I feel between sex and vulnerability, giving up or letting go . Any sort of extreme emotional ‘leak’ has always been followed up with a sexual encounter in Griffith’s narrative. Whether it was the death of the boy soldier, Guts leaving then the ultimate emotional out pour of the eclipse.

ooooh, yk even if that is based on a mistranslation (bc yeah the dark horse version is just ‘cast all those sad and frightening things into the fire’ p much) it totally integrates into both berserk’s take on sexuality and internal darkness and it really does fit griffith as a character.

it could basically function the same way as the actual translation, ie as a description of emotional denial, except where ‘cast them into the fire’ suggests burying feelings and ignoring them, your take suggests taking those negative feelings and transforming them into something useful. which is so eclipse.

so like even if that’s relegated to headcanon, I love it and imo it really works.

@dreadlox-o3o said: It bothers me a bit, that not so much
thought was considered into this Theory, and the portrayal of light and
dark may not be simplistic they are made pretty clear through the
characters and their journey, ya know what I mean?

I’m actually not sure what you mean tbh, sorry. Do you mean that Guts being the Hawk of Light and Griffith being the Hawk of Darkness isn’t as simple as I suggested? Totally elaborate if you want, I’m curious, and sorry if I’m misunderstanding.

Just to clarify my thoughts a bit, to me part of the appeal of Berserk is that it doesn’t really seem like a Good vs Evil story, and I think the idea of Griffith encompassing both light and dark is more interesting. He’s the dark hawk who’s the master of “sinful black sheep” (apostles probs) and “white sheep” (people who choose to live in falconia under his protection, i assume) but also the white hawk who saves the world and grants humanity’s deepest desires (basically letting their subconscious roam free in the form of fantasy creatures).

Like whether a character would call him the hawk of darkness or light depends on which side they’re on, imo. Plus it gives the story more the feel of a fate (Griffith) vs free will (Guts) conflict. While if Guts was the Hawk of Light and Griffith was the Hawk of Darkness I think it would feel more like a fated/prophecized good vs evil conflict, which is just less interesting to me.

mastermistressofdesire:

huenot:

mastermistressofdesire:

@bthump

Oh I meant to reply to this so long ago, but I completely forgot.

So about that story. I don’t remember the details very clearly, I’ll try to correct myself later if i get some things wrong but I thought it was pretty interesting I’ll try to link the interview if I can find it.

Also I usually try not speculate about the personal lives of real people because it seems a little invasive and potentially harmful to me.

But Kentaro Miura and his Griffith-friend had a little bit of a mutual obsession it appeared to me. Like a little bit.

So in a nutshell this Friend was with him in art school, very good in academics, was most probably a scholarship student and pretty good looking and popular with the girls (miura’s words not mine). But had this tendency to get into a lot of fights and sometimes seemed to seek fights out. Miura talks about how his one passionate dream was to be a manga artist and he was dedicated and really disciplined and he’d practice all the time he could find between school and two part time jobs and Miura was generally quite in awe of all this and didn’t quite know how they ended up as friends because Miura himself felt the only thing he was good at was art (humble little cupcake) and he was socially awkward af.

But anyway,. this friend would seek Miura out after school and ask to practice together, they’d draw for a while then the friend would leave for his jobs and then they’d meet again at school in the morning.

But over time Miura started to notice that his friend had started to get frustrated with the status of his art and seemed to be getting tired and over-worked in general. Especially because he seemed to be becoming insecure about how good Miura’s art was compared to his own and he’d started doubting if he’d actually be able to become a manga artist when someone so much better existed. They’d have their sessions less frequently, they became distant, his friend started getting into more brawls and fights

then he got scouted by a publishing company as an illustrator, dropped out of school and moved to a bigger city and Miura lost contact with him.

Mostly they heard of him again through other sources. It was a well paying job, and his friend had started a sort of party lifestyle. He’d go out a lot, drink a lot, other things and had a shit ton of hookups with a lot of people.

and that’s all Miura knew until he got a late night drunk call where this guy ranted at him, told him this was all his fault, fuck you and your art, it sucks and basically was a huge mess and cried a lot and it was pretty evident he wasn’t actually happy. and then hung up before Miura could say much.

Then years years later Miura got a call again from the same friend who apologised for whatever he had said and didn’t actually remember. Confessed that he’s actually read all of Miura’s work and owned copies of all the current volumes and loved it.

And told him that he was planning to leave the illustration and publishing work and start from scratch as a manga author.

And the dude is currently a published author.

And they are friends again now.

yeah.

That wasn’t a nutshell.

Berserk Spoilers? :’)

Griffith drunk-calling Guts  would be fucking fantastic tbh.

ty for telling the story! i vaguely knew like, the basics of miura had an ambitious friend who eventually ended up quitting his impressive job and becoming a mangaka, but all the details are new and interesting to me.

also lmao @ the addition, i need. if this real life backstory just adds slightly more weight to the possibility of some inner turmoil for griffith i’ll take it.

I saw a white hawk guts theory going around i just started laughing. cus Guts in white is pretty baffling to me but i think he’ll look nice and if he turned out to be the true hawk of light, he would legit refuse cus he don’t want people bowing down to him and all that mumbo jumbo he would tell the people to live your life as much as you can and expecting people to solve your problems.

yeah i’ve seen variations on that theory before and i def don’t buy it. i’ve always figured neogriffith is simultaneously the hawk of darkness and the hawk of light. revealing that guts is the real hawk of light and turning it into a darkness vs light thing sounds way too simplistic for berserk lol.

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dang i totally forgot that the forshadowing was laid out so explicitly like this

kinda rubbing my hands together gleefully rn. “what will she do” not how will she act or what will she think or feel, but what will she do?

(ngl tho this coming right after another showing of the moonlight kid makes me a little concerned that casca’s gonna do something in a rage but he’ll show up and soothe her spirit with maternal feelings or smthn like it keeps chilling guts’ inner beast out. OR maybe she’ll sacrifice it! holy shit i think i just discovered my ideal next volume! yk maybe lead the audience into thinking she’ll sacrifice farnese but surprise, moonlight kid was the soul of her own child and he’s a goner but farnese is gonna live forever. haha yes i just solved the puzzle of how to turn casca into an apostle without losing farny.)

my memory isn’t solid bc i wasn’t paying particular attention, but i know there’s at least one, maybe more, other moments on the ship where serpico looks in through a doorway on farnese and schierke working

dude is definitely feeling a little removed from farnese’s life right now, a little separated, and while he’s happy for farnese’s happiness i’d say he’s a little melancholy for himself.