I think you have mentioned a few times how you would like to see people exploring NeoGriffith’s mind in a similar manner to Casca’s. And I would like to add, maybe this is the reason why he is said to dread a witch more than a whole army (or something similar).
The first thing he does after being reborn is to make sure he doesn’t feel any emotions any longer – especially towards Guts. And even if he believes the reason why his heart was bthumping was the demon kid, we already saw him hesitating to harm Guts during the Eclipse – even though he was bereft of any humanity, a physical body and his heart was frozen. Or at least this is how I saw the scene.
Because this is certainty to me:
While this is hesitation:
This scene was even better in the movies.
Anyway, what I was trying to get at – while trying to tell himself he is free, he must have had a reason – doubt – to visit Guts and prove it, which only proved the opposite.
And I think, what if the reason he seems to dread witches is, that he is aware he has a weakness, after all – somewhere deep inside, spot, a place, a feeling or a memory, which once brought back to life might mean his downfall – and only magical beings like them can enter his subconscious and trigger such a change.
And another meta about this so called “Age of Darkness“, which is related to this post – what if actually making him weak again is what would cause it – similar to the Eclipse. Because we all know how he handles, when being hurt and desperate.
I want this so much.
Gr8 point about how he was specifically going after Flora – and you know, the fact that Flora got killed but her protege got away has got to lead to Schierke doing something that Griffith feared Flora would do, right?
And we’ve seen Schierke do a lot of psychic exploration, with Guts and now Casca. So I’m down with this theory.
Plus like, the concept of someone getting inside NeoGriffith’s head and altering him again – unlocking latent emotions properly, or whatever – is so good. Dude’s been through weird magic processes that alter his mind twice now, so third time’s a charm.
Also interesting thought about the Age of Darkness – I’ve been assuming it’s the whole high fantasy thing, but we really don’t know for sure, do we?
Semi-relatedly, I’ve had a thought before that while NeoGriff is the messiah/saviour of humanity/dude who grants humanity’s subconscious desires and has the power to save or damn everyone according to the lost chapter, etc, does that hold completely true if the theory that he’s incomplete (because 2 of his sacrifices escaped) is true?
Like is there a scenario where he goes against what humanity wants deep down because his remaining emotions get the better of him once again? Idk this feels like it would fit well with your (rly cool tbh) idea of a weakened/hurt NeoGriff lashing out irrationally and starting an actual Age of Darkness, so I thought I’d throw it in.
I pretty much hate it all around lol. I don’t think her crush is taken that seriously – Schierke takes it seriously but the narrative mostly plays it for laughs or mild sympathy – but it really irritates me how every female character in Berserk has a crush on Guts, it’s unnecessary and it just plain sucks.
Plus yeah I totally agree that it gets creepy af a few times. Like, I avoid this topic because I don’t want to get into a conversation about the epidemic of normalized pedo pandering in manga and anime and how Berserk plays into it bc I’m just not equipped for it. But I’ll just say that I can think of a few creepy pages in the manga, like the one you mentioned, that are up there at the top of the giant pile of things I hate about Berserk.
Berserk had been in my head for quite a long time now, the Eclipse arc marked me a lot. I don’t know to what point I’ll keep reading this manga but it keeps fascinating me. The characters, the storytelling, the style of Kentaro Miura, everything keeps drawing me in more and more. And yes Casca is one of my favourite things about this manga. And this fanart is just a way to show my own representation of her and how much I like her. Take care people ❤
@yesgabsstuff :- I think a part of the reason it hit him as hard as it did was because he had just returned from a situation that had badly triggered thoughts of his father and himself when he was younger. His fear of being abandoned and lied to where at the forefront of his mind at the time.
Yeah definitely. I also find it so beautifully heartbreaking to consider that his reaction to having his unpleasant memories with Gambino triggered was to immediately seek out Griffith for what I think was some form of comfort. (I feel this may tie into @bthump ‘s parallels between Gambino and Griffith ) His fear of being abandoned and lied to were at the forefront of his mind so he decided to go to the one person who he thought wouldn’t abandon or lie to him, at least for the time-being.
And what he Got was a huge slap in the face, based on what he took away from the speech.
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Casca hadn’t stopped Guts at the bottom of the stairs, what if Guts had just barged up there anyway. I’m pretty sure Griffith would have taken one look at Guts, apologised to Charlotte and left with Guts.
I’d actually love to see minific of that possible interaction.
But imagine, no fountain speech.
I would looove to see that AU. I never thought of it before but I totally agree that Griffith would’ve absolutely abandoned Charlotte for Guts. When Guts or his needs are immediately in front of him it’s like Griffith can’t not choose him over the dream (which is one reason why I think the scene during the Eclipse where Guts lets go of Griffith’s hand is so significant, but I digress).
And I love the way you tied Guts seeking Griffith out back to his Gambino issues. That makes so much sense to me.
※This artist does not require permission to reprint, as long as their name and URL are credited. If you liked this fanwork, do take the time to rate and bookmark the original work.
fun fact guts has always had a dream and it’s not “fight tough dudes at exhibitions” or “fight monsters” or “avenge the hawks” or “be the best at the sword”
griffith’s dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
which is why this is so utterly cutting:
and why this just left guts totally dejected and made him give up that dream:
and why if guts finds out that griffith’s heart is bthumping for him that’s going to be either a serious game-changer, or a serious test of guts’ resolve in moving on from his dream.
Guts’ dream was to be looked at, to be recognized, to be loved for what and how he is… Yes, it IS a childish dream because children need these kind of confirmations the most and if they don’t get them, they grow up into dysfunctional adults seeking the very same things they were deprived of, albeit in twisted ways, without the straightforwardness of kids. It’s actually so sad, because in the end Guts was Griffith’s most valuable person, someone Griffith cared about deeply and whose opinion was fundamental. Fate came across like a storm, placing Guts at the bottom of the Primrose palace, when Griffith was trying to convince himself that noting had changed in his life. That overheard conversation was devastating for Guts, it shattered his dream. He didn’t realized it completely, he thought he didn’t have any dream at all, because everything he desired was always so far away and he obviously didn’t think to deserve any kind of affection. Gambino left the deepest scar on his soul. The hawks could’ve healed it, but the logic of the world wants something else for Guts. He needs to be THE struggler, an aching existence searching for meaning and love. Guts’ affection for Caska is perfectly on tone with all this setting, because Caska is a beautiful strong woman and Guts started from respecting her to love her deeply. And what happened when Guts finally started to feel a real connection with another person? This person got destroyed, mentally and also physically. Griffith became an enemy, the most hated man of Guts’ life, folling from the heavens of respect and love to the hellish form of a demon reincarnated. So what about Guts’ dream now? He’s trying to save caska, to have her back, but maybe he’s fighting for something too far away once again. Even if caska finally recovers, we can’t be sure about what she desires for herself, guts and Griffith all along. I want to go a bit further… admitting that Caska is going to be fine and also madly in love with Guts, Guts himself could never see her in the same old way. Caska would always be a walking reminder of Griffith’s change. Guts needs to chase after Griffith and yes, he probably still secretly wants to get from him that validation he craved so much.
YES I’m a sucker for this kind of soulmatey hero/villain tragedy that leads to them dying together, I’d love that.
Also I want to see both their swords added to the Hill of Swords. I would cry and it would be beautiful and cathartic.
I really want Berserk’s ending to be able to make me cry.
Honestly Guts finding out that Griffith has been bthump-ing for him this whole time is kind of almost a requirement.
I had this headcanon where through some shierke/ sonia trying something Guts gets a chance to get inside Griffith’s mindscape. And Guts meets baby Griffith from the earlier flashbacks and the child is curled up shut in a small room and he’s too afraid to go out because it’s all just a dark chasm outside the room and it’s scary and painful. And here we have Guts trying to deal with his mixed feeling and trying to hunt down the bits of Griffith from the void of femto. And Griffith himself panicking and trying to get him to get out. But Guts reaches all those memories and he’s freaking out to now because he realises the enormity of their initial misunderstanding.
It’a a pretty long thing.
In the end Griffith dies because his bthumping causes him to once again act irrationally for Guts sake. And Guts is left holding the remains and knowing he’s never ever going to get over this.
I want psychic mindscape fuckery so bad you have no idea. so bad omg.
Guts has always been so hungry for love and somehow, I think this has always been his dream from the start – to have someone want HIM, not necessarily his fighting skill whatsoever, but someone to appreciate him as a person, to trust him, to care for him, to watch his back, to just give a damn. I think Guts too had to make himself strong (just like Griffith), so he could survive in a world, where nobody gave horse shit for a young unfortunate boy. He sought love and attention in Gambino, he so much longed for the affection of his so called father, but he only ever got the opposite. Once Gambino died, Guts sort of lost himself, he belonged nowhere, so he would fight his way through the lands of the world and live day for day.
But then Griffith came along – a boy who knew nothing of Guts, yet was ready to fight to make him his. And even if Guts was irritated by it (and in his ears, none of what Griffith said probably made sense), I think in the end, we wanted to feel as if he actually belonged somewhere – and Griffith became this ‘somewhere’. Hell, it took one gesture to render Guts speechless and make him ‘obey’ (because I can’t believe he would have stayed, only cuz he lost a duel if he hated the idea of it)- it was a chance to finally get, what he wanted the most in the world – someone, who actually cared for him.
And after the Zodd encounter, we see him watch the moon, remember Griffith saying he has put himself in harm’s way for his sake and he is pondering if this is the answer he has been looking for all along. And the question is stated few chapters back, when we see the little Guts lie on the ground, after having killed Gambino – where is he going if the world has nothing good to offer? But maybe Griffith’s care and affection is this ‘good’ he longs for.
So he eventually leaves – because he wants to EARN his place by Griffith’s side – he isn’t simply aiming for a home, for warmth, he wants more – just like Griffith. Guts’s dream is, in a way, to stand by Griffith’s side and to be worthy of the care and affection Griffith has given him and not be eventually ‘left behind’ by the hawk, who always aims so high. Because by Griffith’s side is where he wants to be the most.
Another thing I would like to add is, that I don’t think Guts was unaware of Griffith’s feelings, I think in a way, he always knew. Which is I think he is rather shown to feel guilty, whenever Casca confronts him about it, than actually deny it. I think he felt guilty to be a special person to Griffith, even though he didn’t do anything to deserve it, while Casca made this her dream and fought for it. And when she told him about her life and how she came to fight for Griffith, the realisation hit even harder. He didn’t feel as if he would lose Griffith’s affection if he stayed, I think he believed he had already lost it and had to gain it back by becoming his equal.
Yeah. So the obvious observation about her is that she shares her character design with Griffith. And not many other character similarities.
But i feel like Kentaro Miura has sort of reused elements of her character in the final version of the manga as well. Most of all in the lost children arc with Jill.
both are little girls who Guts encounters in his ‘black swordsman’ phase and almost unintentionally rescues. They develop a sort of admiration bordering on an innocent crush on him. And then guts later fights an apostle who they are under threat from. and then he leaves. And we do get a lot more about Jill than Frikka but I still sort of wonder about the similarities.
I also see elements of Frikka in some of Casca’s early characterization. Something to do with the similarity of imagery and this acceptance of what their fate maybe- regardless of how unpleasant it is.
And then there’s this guy
So the first time I read the Berserk Prototype I almost immediately dismissed any actual similarities in character between the two – except of course for the massive crush on Guts- mostly because Frikka stood out to me as a rather submissive character and that was a word i’d never use to describe Griffith. So Griffith is a lot of contradictory seeming things. Cold and affectionate, moral and immoral, terrifying and adorable, dark and light and yet within dominant and submissive he is dominant and dominant . There isn’t a single submissive bone in his body whatsoever.
But there is this one panel which stood out to me.
And for the strangest reason this reminded me of this( i don’t even know why)
This strange sort of dissociation from the situation. doing the math. At the end of the day a girl will be tortured and killed. At the end of the day soldiers will die. How does it matter which girl or which action prevents this.
It’s a strange sort of selflessness which infact removes the burden of witness through a form of depersonalisation.
if you ever try to befriend me and you expect to be in frequent contact with me i am so sorry. i do that with maybe two people and even then i often go days or weeks withouts saying anything before talking daily for a while.
the point is if we dont talk that doesnt mean i dont like u and think about u a lot im just terrible at maintaining close relationships
fun fact guts has always had a dream and it’s not “fight tough dudes at exhibitions” or “fight monsters” or “avenge the hawks” or “be the best at the sword”
griffith’s dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
guts’ dream:
which is why this is so utterly cutting:
and why this just left guts totally dejected and made him give up that dream:
and why if guts finds out that griffith’s heart is bthumping for him that’s going to be either a serious game-changer, or a serious test of guts’ resolve in moving on from his dream.
Same, this is a real problem for me because I like trying to predict things, but I just can’t with Berserk lol.
I feel like he could swing an ending where somehow the Idea of Evil/Fate in general is like… defeated by humanity, who, thanks to whatever, would now rather struggle in an uncaring universe than blame all their problems on God. But I feel like that’s kind of unlikely because, idk, it just feels a little too big of a metaphysical change and too positive of a take on humanity for Berserk.
Honestly for me if Griffith does something irrational because he (not the damn fetus that’s a red herring as far as I’m concerned) still feels those pesky life-ruining emotions for Guts, and in turn Guts demonstrates his mixed-feelings towards Griffith in a powerful way, I’ll consider myself satisfied. Basically I’m thinking a 3rd duel (assuming Guts’ brand of sacrifice, which removes him a little from fate according to Skull Knight, means he can potentially hurt Griffith) where emotions are at their peak.
I’ve also vaguely considered an ending where Guts lets Griffith stab him, because he has a bad habit of doing that when he’s feeling conflicted about killing someone, or when he’s confronted with something that makes him feel guilty (in this case, the memories of human Griffith and their first two duels). In this scenario Griffith would be shocked because he expected Guts to block or w/e a la that time Casca stabbed him, and maybe have a breakdown beside his corpse.
I have a whole long speculative post here too but I can’t commit myself to one perfect ending lol, there’s so many possibilities. At the end of the day I just want that heavy emotional GutsGriff drama.
Another perfect ending i have thought of is Griffith dying by someone else’s hand. And Guts arriving there too late, wanting to actually fight Griffith himself, but once he gets there, Griffith is already gone – probably even turned back to his broken state before the eclipse. And all that’s left of him is his body. Guts sees it and cannot handle it – he didn’t even have the chance to put all that happened behind himself and seeing Griffith so destroyed makes him completely break down, eventually let the Beast take over completely to not feel the pain any longer. He eventually gets killed by Casca or Serpico. Happy ending!
Nice! And with this inspiration, I just want to throw out: what if Casca does it? Say she goes apostle or gets a power up and is pissed off and leaves to avenge herself. And you have Guts going after her, not sure whether he wants to help Casca, or stop her to save her soul from the ravages of revenge, or stop her because he wants to kill Griffith himself, or stop her because he still doesn’t fully want Griffith to die. But he’s too late.
Same, this is a real problem for me because I like trying to predict things, but I just can’t with Berserk lol.
I feel like he could swing an ending where somehow the Idea of Evil/Fate in general is like… defeated by humanity, who, thanks to whatever, would now rather struggle in an uncaring universe than blame all their problems on God. But I feel like that’s kind of unlikely because, idk, it just feels a little too big of a metaphysical change and too positive of a take on humanity for Berserk.
Honestly for me if Griffith does something irrational because he (not the damn fetus that’s a red herring as far as I’m concerned) still feels those pesky life-ruining emotions for Guts, and in turn Guts demonstrates his mixed-feelings towards Griffith in a powerful way, I’ll consider myself satisfied. Basically I’m thinking a 3rd duel (assuming Guts’ brand of sacrifice, which removes him a little from fate according to Skull Knight, means he can potentially hurt Griffith) where emotions are at their peak.
I’ve also vaguely considered an ending where Guts lets Griffith stab him, because he has a bad habit of doing that when he’s feeling conflicted about killing someone, or when he’s confronted with something that makes him feel guilty (in this case, the memories of human Griffith and their first two duels). In this scenario Griffith would be shocked because he expected Guts to block or w/e a la that time Casca stabbed him, and maybe have a breakdown beside his corpse.
I have a whole long speculative post here too but I can’t commit myself to one perfect ending lol, there’s so many possibilities. At the end of the day I just want that heavy emotional GutsGriff drama.
in the golden age always looked too big to me. I think there was this colour illustration once where they were all sitting around a campfire. and griffiths profile was in the foreground and he looked much much skinnier than the impression he gave whenever we usually see him in armour.
I wonder if it was a deliberate thing. To make himself look bigger?
i remember seeing a post somewhere about Griffith’s flashback armour with musculature details and how it thematically fits with Casca’s statement that Griffith is ultimately a weak human who has to make himself strong for his dream. Anyway i totally agree with you, the other armour fits that idea too, if less overtly.
inspired by au art by Gyodragonwhich sort of made the berserk universe the plot of a movie.
This is sort of weird and unedited but -here, have it regardless.
Oh right and I thought it would be funny if the actor’s personalities didn’t match the characters (atleast on the surface). So ooc warning I guess.
But their names are still the same.
Griffith sprawled across the bench, faux-leather covered
helmet in one hand, fanning himself with a clipboard as he waited for someone
to come and help him out of the sweaty, full-body costume he had had to wear
for the scene. He held out the hand holding the clipboard in front of him for a
moment, examining the detailed acrylic talons.
The bench creaked a little as Guts came and sat down beside
him. He had already changed into sweatpants and slung a towel around his
shoulders, choosing to forgo a shirt as usual.
Griffith sighed and scooted away a little.
Guts raised an eyebrow and proceeded to close the distance.
Griffith turned to him with an annoyed glare. “Don’t sit so
close to me! It’s fucking boiling in here.”
Guts smirked but obediently moved away a little. “Maybe it’s
just me.”
“Is that honestly the best you can do?”
“No. But I can demonstrate the best I can do if you give me a time and a place.”
“Honestly, after the scene we just shot could you please lay
off the innuendos for a little bit?”
Guts inclined his head and leaned back away, looking at him
sideways with a slightly thoughtful expression. “Yeah. You seemed sort of
bothered today. Made more mistakes than usual too.”
Griffith leaned forward, resting his elbows on his knees, a
slight crease between his brows.He went over the words again in his head- than usual. “Wouldn’t anyone be? It’s really quite
disturbing. I honestly never paid attention to this part of the script when they signed me up
for this project.” He bit his lip before continuing, “This is the first time
I’ve shot something I don’t want my mother to see. She’s going to be so upset … didn’t want me to take up this show right from the
beginning.”
Guts scoffed “See, I get it about the scene being dark and
all but I honestly don’t get the deal with your mother. If she doesn’t like it
she doesn’t like it. So what? You’re old enough to make your own decisions and
if she isn’t down with that, then that’s her problem.”
Griffith didn’t respond, just shook his head weakly.
He raised himself up and looked up at Guts for a moment
before staring at his hands again. “No it’s not that. I understand what she
means. It’s just that this is so different from the sort of things I usually do
that she thinks the image change might affect my employability.”
Guts raised an eyebrow. “No offence dude but the sort of
stuff you usually do is sort of crappy. When we started here, I was afraid of
touching you for fear of causing violins to go off in the background.”
Griffith laughed a little. “ You don’t like violins?”
“Make my ears bleed. Screechy little things.”
Griffith grinned. “ You’ve never actually been to a proper
recital, have you?” He stretched a little, as much as the body suit would allow-
before leaning back on one hand. “The thing about all those roles is that they
were easy, pleasant. There was no need to exert yourself, to change the way you
think and walk. No fear of slipping too far into a character. So simple . So
chaste. Just gentle romance. Maybe a fight scene here and there. The fans were
wonderful too. Adoring and devoted.”
Guts expression softened as he was speaking, eyes narrowing
with a brief hint of worry towards the end. “You hated every moment of it
didn’t you?”
Griffith started and jerked himself upright, facing him with a look of
surprise. “What makes you think that?”
Guts hesitated a little, biting the edge of his lip momentarily. “Just something in your face.” He
saw Griffith begin to open his mouth to respond and sped forward. “Actually there’s something
I’ve been meaning to ask you for sometime now- ”
“Hey Guts! I thought I’d asked you to not take the
prosthetics off on your own.”
They turned around to see Judeau from costuming saunter up
to the bench with his giant green work bag.
Guts frowned a little at being inturrupted but grinned when
he saw Judeau. “Sorry they were itchy as hell, couldn’t help peeling them off.”
“Finally.” Griffith groaned and stood up so that Judeau could begin to take the costume apart piece
by piece. By the time he was done Griffith was left wearing
the rather sweat soaked T-shirt and shorts he had been wearing under the costume all
along.
“Should I remove the makeup for you too or will you do that
on your own?” Judeau asked pointing at Griffith’s eyes.
“ It’s okay I can do it myself.” Griffith dipped his head, pulling
his hair back into a ponytail. He leaned over to look at Judeau’s watch. “Ah
shit. It’s already pretty late. I’ll
head back after this. See you guys tomorrow.”
As he watched him go Guts wondered when he’d get a chance to
ask about the bruises he’d seen in the green room three days ago.
wait wait wait I was going to say that I like that Guts can’t finish his sentence bc he wants to call Griffith his friend but yk the whole source of the drama is that he feels like he can’t…
but isn’t that the scene with Zodd? Where there’s absolutely no reason for him not to finish that sentence with “friend”? So the fact that he trailed off and failed to define their relationship is actually super gay, js.
God I know right? Like they’ve been separated for 20 real world years, aside from one brief meeting and that one meeting-each-other’s-eyes-from-across-a-distance moment and Guts has spent a large chunk of that time trying to forget him, but GriffGuts still feels hugely relevant.
I guess because the readers know they have to meet again (I mean could you imagine the story fizzling out with Guts deciding to retire in Elfhelm while Griffith rules the world lmao? No GriffGuts reunion, no epic climax) and we keep getting these occasional hints from the story that they’re nowhere near finished with each other emotionally, even as their current narratives have nothing to do with each other.
Guts has his temporarily chained inner beast still haunting him and threatening to take over and hunt Griffith down, and every few volumes the subject of Griffith comes back up to make him feel things and periodically remind the reader that it’s not over (the RPG group gossiping about the old Band of the Hawk, Laban asking
after him, meeting apostles and knowing Griff is nearby, witches in
Elfhelm asking after him, etc)
And on Griffith’s end we have that beating heart, and imo every volume of Griffith narrative we get where that’s conspicuously not brought up again and yet implied by the pointed ambiguity of Griffith’s emotional state (gorgeous portrait at the end of Sonia’s chapter on loneliness, serenity contrasting with transformed Ganeshka’s panicked loneliness, letting Rickert slap him, the question of who sent Raksas after him, etc), is just more tension added that will make the moment we do get to learn about Griffith’s emotions extra satisfying.
tbh structurally the way Miura showed Griffith’s pov as his heart was unfreezing, and then for every subsequent part of Griffith’s narrative gave us absolutely no information on his internal emotional state, and human Griffith’s downfall (and the thing that kept being brought up over and over and over and over again during the Golden Age) was his irrationality caused by his feelings for Guts – it just makes me intrinsically feel that we’re heading for something big. It’s a tease for a reason.
Do yall also have these mutuals that you just??? Grew really fond of?? Like, you never properly talk to them and all you do is like each other’s posts but whenever you see them on your dash you’re like “hello sunshine, I hope you’re drinking lots of water and being happy your health and wellbeing is so important to me” and I hope that’s not weird because honestly that’s me all the time
you're the only one 