god i always forget about the sword in mouth thing?? like miura is obviously pushing phallic imagery and traditional allegories/metaphors with manhood and swords, and its pretty directly foreshadowed that griff getting his sword broken –> figurative and probably literal castration; broken swords obviously symbol loss of power but its a p common art motif to symbolize impotency too lol
what im saying is that guts put griffs dick in his mouth and theres no way around it
/files away more evidence for my “griffith is a power bottom” analysis post/
cosigning all of this.
also negl i would read an entire analysis that concludes with “therefore griffith is a power bottom” lol. and, like, genuinely a freudian analysis of berserk could totally exist bc miura is obviously purposefully throwing at least some freudian symbolism in there (aforementioned 2nd duel being one of the more clear examples).
The first thing that springs to mind to say about it is that I literally, 100% being honest and not exaggerating, cannot conceive of a writer writing that into their story and intending the characters to be straight bffs lmao
Like it’s the scene where they properly meet for the first time, and it’s not even innuendo, it’s straight up “are you gay? do you want to fuck me? okay sure if you win you can” and Griffith pointedly denying none of it. If that’s how you choose to introduce your characters’ relationship I just don’t believe that all the subsequent homoeroticism is accidental.
Also a good thing about those exchanges? Prime the audience to read the first duel as a sex scene. Like I’m sorry but Guts saying “you can have whatever you want, my sword or my ass” and then surprising Griffith by um taking his sword into his mouth? Pretty dang suggestive.
(Also Griffith winning by seizing Guts’ arm in a hold and then dislocating it = he’s a power bottom. Sorry that’s just basic literary analysis.)
More seriously I think it’s interesting and simultaneously kind of heartwarming and tragic that the first thing Guts does is project his rape trauma on Griffith but then quickly comes to wholly trust, admire and love him. It’s another indication that living with the Hawks and Griff for 3 years has really helped heal him emotionally, and another relatively minor thing that adds a little more weight to the Eclipse, at least in theory (seems a bit thin to say it was purposeful on Miura’s part but it works).
enh it’s a fucked up offensive scene so I avoided panels that mention or show sexual assault bc it’s a joke post, but i mean unfortunately it is one of the most homoerotic scenes since the golden age so it’s pretty relevant.
i get if you have a problem with anything from that scene being mentioned light-heartedly at all but tbh i tend to get a little irreverent when it comes to miura’s misogyny (among other issues) bc lbr you can’t throw a stone in berserk without hitting someone treating casca like shit, and if i took it completely seriously i wouldn’t be able to enjoy or even get through the story. so I mean I don’t make rape jokes or post pics of sexual assault without cuts and warnings, but I can’t promise I won’t mention fucked up scenes in a light hearted jokey way.
eta: tho actually after casually scrolling past that post it is a pretty jarring change in tone lol, so fair enough. I should probably try to be more mindful of that kind of thing. i’m so used to rolling my eyes at the constant rape that i can forget that those scenes are pretty disturbing even out of context.
this is a beautiful post but i love how guts’ memory of neogriff remarks that “he looked so human…” but basically all of the body is obscured by birds. guts knows him anywhere by his hair and his ass
lmao right, and I’m p sure griffith is on the opposite end of like, a huge field too, but guts just instantly Knows.
honestly what a good page tho. notable heterosexual Guts, upon looking at NeoGriff’s divine ass surrounded by birds and flowing hair:
Anyway, on Griffith always facing away in Guts’ memories:
Guts left Griffith in the snow in an attempt to become Griffith’s equal. When he came back, by all standards of measurement these two dudes give a fuck about, Guts is by far his superior. Griffith was broken by Guts leaving, then broken by torture, and is dependent physically and emotionally on him.
It’s a very be careful what you wish for thing lol.
However, one side-effect of the Eclipse, not intended by Griffith but intended by the narrative, is it’s a reset button on their stupid power dynamic obsession – Guts has another shot at achieving his dream, ironic as that is.
Guts left, when he came back he discovered in as brutal a way as possible that he left for no reason. The fact that his leaving destroyed Griffith was proof that his attempt to become Griffith’s equal was based on misinformation. However, after the Eclipse, Griffith is a god and now Guts is back at square one.
This is basically directly stated when Guts thinks of Griffith’s friendship speech while declaring war on him.
So I think part of the reason he usually remembers Griffith with his back turned is basically because he’s in a cycle of pursuing him, first to stand beside him, and now to drag him down to him.
Which begs 2 questions imo:
1. Can Guts break free of this cycle? 2. Does Guts need to pursue Griffith at all to be his equal, or does the irony of the Golden Age (I left to be your equal but turns out I already was lol whoops) still hold true? ie, how emotionally compromised is NeoGriff?
I mentioned a while ago that the first time I feel we got a real visual* glimpse of Guts’ hound-esque inner darkness chronologically was during the rescue mission.
The way he cuts out the torturer’s tongue is very reminiscent of his tendency to torture apostles before killing them imo (which probably has its origins in the way he killed Donovan), and then he just rampages through the castle like a demonic one-man army, very black swordsman ish.
Look at this imagery like:
(i love Casca’s ‘holy shit dude’ expression)
Plus you got Charlotte saying he scares her, and the Wyald fight is when everyone starts comparing Guts to a monster and saying he’s inhuman.
So I was thinking – why? Why would we get this before the Eclipse, before he starts killing ghosts and infusing his sword with Essence of Darkness, before the brand + killing monsters make him literally superhuman? Why do we get our first look at monster slaying, revenge-obsessed, black swordsman Guts a day and only a day before the main event, the point of which is to make him revenge-obsessed, even takes place?
And I want to suggest that it’s because this is it – this is Guts’ revenge spree. It’s not one revenge spree that ends, followed immediately by another unrelated revenge spree. It’s the same rage. He killed the torturer like he kills apostles, then he fought an actual apostle to defend Griffith, then the Eclipse happened and he declared war.
It’s all intimately connected in Guts’ mind and emotions:
He started off on a vengeful rampage for Griffith in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt, and he continued on a vengeful rampage against Femto/NeoGriffith, also in part as a way of externalizing his own feelings of guilt.
We know this because as he’s running towards Griffith in the torture chamber Guts thinks about how it’s his fault that Griffith is there without actually coming to a proper conclusion (if that’s the case… then I –) – and he reaches that conclusion (was I the one who brought all this upon you?) right as he’s running towards Griffith at the site of the Eclipse. Guts’ guilt is strongly associated with his rage this way. Guilt followed by external target followed by lashing out.
Idk, there’s just such a through line to me from Casca telling him it’s his fault to the Eclipse. The most significant moments of Guts’ internal thoughts are given to him processing this information and finally concluding that he fucked up right before the Eclipse begins. The Eclipse didn’t then erase his feelings of guilt, it just let him continue to repress those feelings and gave him acceptable targets to lash out at instead of dealing with his feelings.
Now this is a bold statement, but I think that in a way, rampage part 1, kill half the soldiers of Midland, and rampage part 2, kill demons, are both about Guts avenging Griffith – the latter only in part ofc, because the rest of the Hawks need to be avenged too now.
Because the thing is, I think he still sees Griffith as a victim. After finally acknowledging that Griffith did sacrifice everyone, he still looks back at him wistfully. He thinks of Griffith while flashing back to the lost Hawks after the Eclipse. He tells Rickert that NeoGriffith isn’t the Griffith he knows (incidentally something Rickert repeats to NeoGriffith later, which NGriff acknowledges). He flashes back to Griffith in the snow a lot. To Guts, Griffith isn’t his friend who turned out to be a dick, Griffith is his friend who basically committed fantasy murder/suicide after being tortured for a year because Guts broke him by leaving.
His feelings towards Femto/NeoGriff are complicated and fucked up as all hell, but while his feelings for Griffith feed into his complicated feelings for Femto/NeoGriff, his hatred for F/NG doesn’t retroactively affect his feelings towards human Griffith. They’ve remained pretty solidly longing, guilt, love, regret. He’s not thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and feeling rage at what he would go on to do a year later, he’s thinking of Griffith kneeling in the snow and trying to find a way to atone for it. Griffith is still explicitly part of the “campfire from those days still [burning in his] chest.”
Idk basically I just wanted to say that a part of Guts’ fuel for his revenge rampage was feeling responsible for Griffith’s pain and not being able to save Griffith from it, both the first time against Midland and the second time against the Godhand, and I chose a very long drawn-out way to do that.
* I specify visual glimpse bc i think there’s a solid argument that it’s there when he kills Donovan, based on the way he taunts him and tortures him briefly first, but we don’t have any of the ragey demonic imagery associated with Guts’ darkness there – he just looks like a kid. So I feel like it works as a point of origin for a lot of Guts’ dark vengeful urges (Donovan is the first monster he killed), but he wasn’t anywhere close to losing himself to darkness then.
Honestly I don’t think there’s anything I have to add here which you haven’t already said. But I’ll just leave this here,
From Schierke’s trip into Guts Mindscape, where at the pit of the fire which drives Guts forward, There is a chant of Griffith’s name and a confused roil of affection and rage which comes with it. And though Friend and enemy overlap, they haven’t quite superimposed yet, they are still distinct entities.
And really you’ve said this before but I definitely agree that a part of his current motivation to fix things comes from his guilt of being unable to ‘fix’ what he had with Griffith. I’m not saying he wouldn’t have done it for Casca on her own too, but that Guttural fear, the panicked “Did I Do it AGAIN?!” that comes from a place of Guilt. A place quite firmly occupied by Griffith.
The “This time, I was the one left behind.” goes to show that Guts now wholeheartedly sees himself leaving the first time around as an act of abandonment, there’s no allusion to leaving to pursue his own dream because really even back then- :”Now I realise, this was what I’d been seeking this whole time.”
What I also like about this is that Guts seems to treat it as Griffith sort of “Paying him back’ for that offense. So he’s kind of subconsciously seeing Neo-Griffith as a very human, emotionally motivated figure with remnants of the ‘original’ Griffith’s emotional experiences and for once Guts might just really be on to something.
Also Interestingly, as mentioned before i guess, ever since the Eclipse all of Gut’s memories of Griffith have morphed into images of him standing with his back towards Guts or at a distance and the imagery is really interesting to me here. Because it could signify so much.
We know that the image of Griffith’s back, kneeling in the snow has sort of become a haunting image for Guts. What if the turned back everywhere else is an extension of this, the fact that all his memories are tinged with the same regret or guilt.
Secondly it could be simply a perceived distance and further unreachability, because the past is literally an unachievable objective. And specifically that shot he has of the entire original band during the ‘companions’ speech. Griffith is walking away in the background there, it’s almost as if Guts realises that even during what he considered his happiest memories he was already losing Griffith.
Oh and the “Campfire from those days still burns in my heart” spread?
First of all. Ahhem.
Second of all once again you compare in importance a woman you literally have an appendage of yours inside in that particular shot with this other guy who actually looms much larger. An more encompassing. With his presence literally symbolically wrapped around you for emotional warmth.
Also Under his cover but behind his back and I really wonder if that has significance too.
And then again maybe simply because he doesn’t know what face to give him. Is it the face of a friend, an enemy, something else all together? Guts doesn’t really know yet.
lol i was almost going to make my original post like twice as long by going on to guts’ decision to stick with casca this time and how it’s framed as him trying to make up for abandoning griffith etc. but then i was like, this is already rly long.
also good point about Guts interpreting Griffith rejection as payback – ia, i don’t think Guts is exactly wrong about that lol.
I’ve been reading Guts’ memories of Griffith’s back (bc yeah I noticed that too, he’s always facing away) as, I guess, recognition that that relationship has been destroyed. Whenever Guts remembers leaving Griffith he’s looking back at him kneeling in the snow, which tbh strikes me as symbolic rather than literal because Guts never looked back. It’s a visual representation of Guts’ acknowledgement that he left Griffith behind. And I think Guts’ other memories of Griffith with his back to him are similar – an acknowlegement that Guts ruined everything and now he’s back to chasing Griffith. I might say more on that in a separate post actually.
and lol the campfire from those days spread is so damn blatant in its acknowledgement of the fact that guts and casca hooked up not only while they were both in love with griffith but, tbh, because of it. at least that’s what i get when i look at a picture of 2 ppl fucking while wrapped in the symbolic flowing cape of the dude they were both acknowledgedly obsessed with plus like you said, it’s with griffith facing away. Which, to me, adds the sense of them trying to fill a hole left by his loss.
Which is why it makes perfect sense to show us this image at this point in the narrative while Guts is contemplating revenge and rescuing Casca because he’s shifting from trying to fill that hole by chasing Griffith/Femto down and “[giving] him a heap of raw iron” to trying to fill it with Casca again (tho he doesn’t actually solidify that choice until NeoGriffith ditches him).
And I think it’s going to be a mistake – we see that Guts leaving revenge behind is good, but his desperation to get Casca back is not so good and will probably have consequences. And I think we’re supposed to understand that he’s doing it for the wrong reasons – if he wanted Casca sane again for her sake he’d be giving her time and a safe place to recover, or just to live. He wants Casca sane again for his own sake bc a) he can’t let go of the past and she represents the Hawks, b) he’s trying to make up for leaving Griffith and c) he’s still trying to fill the Griffith-shaped hole in his heart.
And then again maybe simply because he doesn’t know what face to give
him. Is it the face of a friend, an enemy, something else all together?
Guts doesn’t really know yet.
yk whenever i see this picture i always think about how much i love the way it illustrates the concept that guts and griffith never grew out of their stupid baby dreams and might as well be kids playing war
but you’re right, guts and griffith going on a romantic walk together on a nice summer late-afternoon and guts not even bringing his sword is extremely important and doesn’t get nearly enough attention
I haven’t re-read Berserk in over two years so I may not know what I’m talking about but I’m queueing stuff rn and came across those pages leading up to the moment when Griffith finally sacrificed them all, and I love how “You’re the only one who made me forget my dream” sounds both like a slight accusation and like an excuse of sorts
omg yes, tbh i think what really makes that moment feel so impactful to me every time i read it is that i can feel the genuine love and tenderness (you’re the only one…) but it definitely reads like an accusation to me (you did this to me, you made me fall in love with you, you made me weak, you’re the reason i threw away my dream). it’s that duality that gets me
thinkin about how we never really talk about casca being ordered to sleep with guts his first night with the hawks.
it’s clear why she was ordered to do it- griffith wants guts’s favor, he wants him as an ally, he wants him, period.
and what do you do when you want someone to like you? you give…
Warning: Very long post ahead.
I know this has caused a bit of a stir since yesterday, but I’m really glad you posted this and put this particular scene under the spotlight. It does carry a lot of ugly implications, it’s often overlooked, and Casca’s perspective is an important one…so here are some of my thoughts.
Not to lose my GriffGuts cred here;
But Charlotte coping with her life going directly into the toilet by obsessing like a lunatic on, on some level, the person who caused the problem in the first place, Resenting and Remembering the appropriate people, swallowing that rage without getting her hair out of place and making angry, but perfect embroidery; all of this together makes me think, maybe y’all should be together?
lmao i was about to write a long reply about how yeah it makes sense that charlotte’s obsessed with him, i buy it, before i re-read and went …oh lol i see what you did there
maybe guts has been carrying charlotte’s behelit all along lol. 3 years of repressing bullshit and fixating on someone only to find out he never gave a fuck and is in love with someone else might take a toll.
~parallels~
embroidery does seem like a healthier outlet than trying to maim your crush so he won’t leave you if we’re comparing them though lol so maybe she’s not apostle material.
but yk griffith ran away to repress his emotions forever in the form of turning into a demon, charlotte can be healthier and just run away with anna.
(will i ever talk about charlotte without pushing my charlotte/anna agenda? signs point to no)
you're the only one 