mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

a concept

AU where Guts never overheard Griffith’s speech to Charlotte, nothing went wrong, Griffith eventually married Charlotte and became king, managed the whole famine and plague situation competently and is beloved, started hooking up with Guts on the side, Casca became the highest-ranked general in Midland, Gaston’s got his shop, everyone’s living their best lives

And then Ganeshka and his unstoppable demon army shows up, and regular old human king Griffith doesn’t have apostles on his side

So Griffith tries to stop Ganeshka but it’s unquestionably hopeless ofc

Anyway this is ultimately a What If Griffith became king and fulfilled his dream all according to plan but 3 years later had to flee his kingdom (or get knocked out and hauled away over Guts’ shoulder depending on how reluctant he is) as it’s about to be taken over by a demon emperor kinda thing. Or maybe he chooses to flee because Guts is determined to stay and die with him if he stays. Because I like the idea of Griffith being forced to pick Guts’ life over dying for his dream.

Either way bam suddenly he’s back to where he was when he was 12 with a group of rag tag friends roaming the countryside trying to survive and he’s gotta deal with that.

This is an excellent concept.

I really love this.
Also seeing as Griffith’s and Guts relationship in this version has Been allowed to run it’s natural course and I’d really like to see how that would play out.
I actually think, since Griffith and Guts hooked up, Griffith sometimes wishes he could just run away from the kingly stuff once in a while to be with Guts.

What if he isn’t actually averse to running away after the initial clashes against Vanishes prove that it’s futile.
But I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t actually.
Maybe because the guilt for his soldiers hasn’t quite gone yet and he rationalises that he can’t surrender something so much blood had once been spilled for, PLUS since Guts’ is known for his “finish what you started” attitude- Griffith feels that Guts will not respect him anymore if he runs away.

Guts for his part, thinks Griffiths decision is non negotiable, so he’s just determined to save him from as much damage as he can. Guts refuses to come in the way of what Griffith wants. And he reasons that’s well, it’s always been in his nature to fight rather than flee. And if he has to die, nothing better than now, when he’s found somebody who looks at him and CARES.


PLUS since Guts’ is known for his “finish what you started” attitude-
Griffith feels that Guts will not respect him anymore if he runs away. 

oooh nice, gr8 point i didn’t consider at all.

also ironic if they both die bc they think that’s what the other wants lol, but that’s so them. maybe casca could intervene w/ some sense + save their asses as per usual.

Like with all the Casca thoughts which have been accumulating.

You Know this bit-
“ Maybe Casca could intervene w/ some sense + save their asses as per usual.”

This is OUR version of Casca. This is our take on what she could have been if the narrative didn’t constantly screw up her characterisation.
Because this action and characteristics makes sense to us, seems like a reasonable expectation and we or rather I (I’ll only speak for myself here for now) would like to believe it to be true- because I really want to like her.

And of course this is us talking about AUs anyway. So we will fill it with what seems reasonable.

But really I can’t help but think how cannon never explored this possibility. In canon Casca never saved their asses or talked sense into them. She made the connections. Yes. She had the information necessary to. Yes. She had the opportunity to. Also yes.

But canon didn’t care about making us like Casca as anything more than either a worthy (and projected as slightly annoying) rival or a love interest.

We’re never made to empathise with any particular or specific actions she takes or roles she plays. It seems like There’s no particularly thing Casca has done in the entire goddamn narrative which defines her. Like HER. Not someone else.

So when we say ‘as per usual’ we’re really just comparing with different versions we have been forced to create on our own.

There’s unfortunately no as per usual we can compare with in the source material.

Which is so frustrating.

Lol yeah this is true and I was kind of thinking when I wrote it that I should’ve said like she always tried to do, and might’ve done if anyone actually listened to her. (Like “just talk to each other!” can you imagine if judeau shut the hell up and they were like, actually yeah casca has a point let’s try words before swords). But I went with less accurate pithiness instead lol.

Also like… I do pretty much agree with you – the narrative is so bad about defining Casca in relation to the men in her life rather than as herself independently that I’ve come to hope it’s her central character flaw that will one day be explored as unlikely as that is lmao, but in fairness despite doing things for Griffith’s sake or for Guts’ sake, she does show a lot of character as she does them.

Taking command of the Hawks, leading the charge to infiltrate Doldrey, rallying the troops in dire situations, jealousy, pettiness, bravery, practicality (one moment I love for her, even if it is just to give Guts a moment of ‘wow she’s so cool’ (ugh), is when she tells the Hawks to stop freaking out at the start of the Eclipse because it’s not going to change the fact that shit just got really weird, so they might as well hold formation and stay calm), foolhardiness due to insecurity (going to battle on her period lol), perseverence even after almost giving up, loyalty ofc and her attempt to navigate between loyalty and what she feels is a betrayal of it albeit a timely and necessary one (even if the ‘betrayal’ is fucking guts, like, the feelings there are still complex despite the shitty plot imo), etc.

I hate almost all of Casca’s narrative and ofc it’s steeped in Miura’s misogyny, and she has a few character moments that are total offensive bs (acting cuter when she warms up to guts, maybe my place is at this man’s side, her non-reaction to Wyald’s attempted rape which just underscores that whole awful thing as pure shock value and titilation, etc) but there are also lots of moments she has that I think are revealing, endearing, and interesting. Like misogyny is one of Miura’s big flaws but shallow characterization sure isn’t and imo while his flaws are seriously on display in Casca’s character his strengths are still there.

So yeah like I don’t disagree with you bc her narrative absolutely sucks and I know that’s p much what you’re talking about, but your response did make me kind of want to talk up her likeability as a character a little lol. Like it’s not enough to make up for her awful narrative role, but it’s enough to make me want to explore her as a character and feel sympathy and empathy for her and relate to her in some ways, which is not a high bar but tbh it’s more than a lot of designated-love-interest-female-characters have.

It’s funny  that while typing out the previous bit, I was wondering if I should add in the bits I did like about Casca which made me want  more of her in the first place- and I was about to talk about her ‘ keep calm’ situation- but I decided against it because I was afraid i’d meander off course and forget to finish my point.

So yeah I do agree with you.

Looking back I think a lot of the fact of why these personally didn’t leave as much of an impact on me-and in  a way i feel they weren’t even  supposed to narratively-is because Casca’s contemporaries were Guts and Griffith who were both built to be larger than life. While Casca was supposed to be more realistic as an individual.

And most probably the fact that Casca was never intended as a main character to begin with  has something to do with that as well. She just got a hike in the importance hierarchy when Miura realised he could use her for the drama amping during the Eclipse and to explain the demon baby he’d introduced in the black swordsman arc but now didn’t know what to do with. ( This is taken from his interview)

So really in comparision to the characters she was created to act as a contemporary to, Casca stands out remarkably actually. In a story starring Casca judeau, pippin, corkus and Rickert – Casca would definitely be the protagonist, the best fighter, the best leader, insightful- complete freaking boss.

So  this isn’t something I could say is specific to only her Gender but rather, because of Miura’s decision to use her for manpain and thereby increase her importance (which IS specific to her gendered treatment)- so when you suddenly change the comparision from the B characters to the two A characters, who the author has spent a great deal of effort carefully crafting, ofcourse it wont be an even match.

And even if I realise this, as a reader Casca is still presented to me as an MC, so naturally I’ll tend to compare her with the other MC’s. And in that light somehow a few of the scenes I find the most impressive about her…seem almost like echoes. 

Her leadership achievements almost seem like an echo of Griffith’s at times.

Hell even Guts aforementioned appreciation seems to allude to this.

“ Every element has been pre-calculated in his mind, even being outnumbered he’s calm and has perfect judgement. He is amazing. He really is.”

“ Even at a time like this she’s calm. She really is amazing.”

Infact okay, this isn’t really related but a lot of what Guts seems to find attractive in Casca apart from you know…seems to be characteristics she shares with Griffith.

Like you could say the interaction between Guts and Casca’s started for proper during the Bonfire of dreams part. Where Guts compliments her on having a dream and then proceeds to say. “Yeah. You’re pretty impressive. You and Griffith both.” Then when he says – “You sound like some refined princess.” Again remember who else speaks poetically about things that matter to them?

Then during the ball. Guts says he finds her strength and skill attractive. And then I remember- who else really awed Guts with their strength and skill.

And , we’ve talked about this before but he finally kissed Casca when she said she couldn’t live off dreams anymore and visibly needed someone’s presence- moments after  Guts was left frozen and helpless when Casca told him that Griffith couldn’t live off only his dreams and he needed Guts there with him.

And I’m digressing again but I think this is also a point we made before?

How so many of my Griffguts arguments have the cost of further puppetfying Casca. And I don’t like it.

Yeah I think point was-IDK anymore,

So yeah I like Casca but I wish there was more.

I think another thing which has struck me is that I don’t have ANY of these issues with the newer female characters? Like I personally never felt this kind of dissapointment reading Farnese or Luca? 

So did the misogyny get better or did I just get desensitised?

Oh damn that comparison between Casca and Griffith is so good. We’ve def talked about it before a bit and I probably will again but you really hit the nail on the head with those details. I didn’t even consider some of those comparisons you caught, nice.

And yeah like I totally agree with you, Casca’s story is so utterly disappointing and she gets the serious short end of the stick compared to Guts and Griffith. Like she is literally, textually, talked about in actual words-on-the-page as an emotional and physical connection between Guts and Griffith and there isn’t a thing in the story that contradicts that, and a whole lot that supports it. It’s a genuinely accurate statement on her narrative significance. Even if you take Guts’ journey to heal her at total face value she’s still reduced to a distraction from Griffith and mindless morality pet.

Which is super fucked up lol, and we’ve talked about that before too. Idk basically I don’t blame anyone for being uncomfortable as fuck with her or finding her character offputting because of how she’s constantly reduced.

For my part I want to like, transplant her into a different story lol. It’s like I can feel how much I’d love her if she was the protagonist of her own story. Like that “what if Casca became the Black Swordsman after the Eclipse” AU I was chatting w/ ppl about a while ago is The Ideal omg. Every time I remember that idea I swoon a little lol. So I stubbornly maintain my love for her in spite of how unfair the narrative is to her.

And yeah ia, no other woman’s narrative is even close to as awful. Even like, Nina, the annoying blonde in the conviction arc, had a better story arc lol. It still pisses me off that almost every female character in Berserk is in love with a dude and most of them are motivated by that love, but at least most of them also have other interests and roles and development outside of that, while Casca never did.

Here’s hoping that’ll change when she wakes up I guess.

yk I’ve been thinking about it and tbh I find Casca a surprisingly compelling character, and I think it’s because there’s like this tension to me between character traits she has that I absolutely love, and a narrative that utterly fails to utilize them and diminishes her at every turn

it engages my inherent obstinancy that makes me want to argue with a story lol, and I get this with a lot of characters who I like, but I feel are treated unfairly by the narrative, which makes me want to like them even more.

In Casca’s case it’s not that I feel like the narrative/author wants me to dislike her, but that he wants me to like her for the wrong reasons. I liked her when he wanted her to be disliked, and I disliked how he tried to make her likeable, basically lol. So I get invested in what I liked (leadership, petty cruelty, fighting skills, overinvestment in something, practicality, occasional stubborn stupidity, etc) often despite how it was narratively presented, and I de-emphasize the “likeable” bullshit (hey if casca had matured a few more years she’d grow more comfortable with herself and not be self conscious about being unfeminine; she’d realize quickly that guts is not a solution to her core problem if she had the chance; w/e she can beat ten men at once apparently so fuck miura if he’s only shown her at a disadvantage, it’s still true; etc)

And Casca has enough character depth imo to support different, better
interpretations than what the narrative was pushing and make it
worthwhile to explore other options, like, eg, Casca moving from
Griffith to Guts being an understandable and sympathetic character flaw
she could’ve overcome rather than a step in the right direction that the narrative wanted me to see it as.

Basically I don’t mind reading against the text if it’s more fun that way. It’s not something I’d base srs analysis or w/e off of, it’s more of a thing u base fanfiction on lol, and I’m aware when I’m doing it, but it definitely affects how much I can like a character.

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

a concept

AU where Guts never overheard Griffith’s speech to Charlotte, nothing went wrong, Griffith eventually married Charlotte and became king, managed the whole famine and plague situation competently and is beloved, started hooking up with Guts on the side, Casca became the highest-ranked general in Midland, Gaston’s got his shop, everyone’s living their best lives

And then Ganeshka and his unstoppable demon army shows up, and regular old human king Griffith doesn’t have apostles on his side

So Griffith tries to stop Ganeshka but it’s unquestionably hopeless ofc

Anyway this is ultimately a What If Griffith became king and fulfilled his dream all according to plan but 3 years later had to flee his kingdom (or get knocked out and hauled away over Guts’ shoulder depending on how reluctant he is) as it’s about to be taken over by a demon emperor kinda thing. Or maybe he chooses to flee because Guts is determined to stay and die with him if he stays. Because I like the idea of Griffith being forced to pick Guts’ life over dying for his dream.

Either way bam suddenly he’s back to where he was when he was 12 with a group of rag tag friends roaming the countryside trying to survive and he’s gotta deal with that.

This is an excellent concept.

I really love this.
Also seeing as Griffith’s and Guts relationship in this version has Been allowed to run it’s natural course and I’d really like to see how that would play out.
I actually think, since Griffith and Guts hooked up, Griffith sometimes wishes he could just run away from the kingly stuff once in a while to be with Guts.

What if he isn’t actually averse to running away after the initial clashes against Vanishes prove that it’s futile.
But I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t actually.
Maybe because the guilt for his soldiers hasn’t quite gone yet and he rationalises that he can’t surrender something so much blood had once been spilled for, PLUS since Guts’ is known for his “finish what you started” attitude- Griffith feels that Guts will not respect him anymore if he runs away.

Guts for his part, thinks Griffiths decision is non negotiable, so he’s just determined to save him from as much damage as he can. Guts refuses to come in the way of what Griffith wants. And he reasons that’s well, it’s always been in his nature to fight rather than flee. And if he has to die, nothing better than now, when he’s found somebody who looks at him and CARES.


PLUS since Guts’ is known for his “finish what you started” attitude-
Griffith feels that Guts will not respect him anymore if he runs away. 

oooh nice, gr8 point i didn’t consider at all.

also ironic if they both die bc they think that’s what the other wants lol, but that’s so them. maybe casca could intervene w/ some sense + save their asses as per usual.

Like with all the Casca thoughts which have been accumulating.

You Know this bit-
“ Maybe Casca could intervene w/ some sense + save their asses as per usual.”

This is OUR version of Casca. This is our take on what she could have been if the narrative didn’t constantly screw up her characterisation.
Because this action and characteristics makes sense to us, seems like a reasonable expectation and we or rather I (I’ll only speak for myself here for now) would like to believe it to be true- because I really want to like her.

And of course this is us talking about AUs anyway. So we will fill it with what seems reasonable.

But really I can’t help but think how cannon never explored this possibility. In canon Casca never saved their asses or talked sense into them. She made the connections. Yes. She had the information necessary to. Yes. She had the opportunity to. Also yes.

But canon didn’t care about making us like Casca as anything more than either a worthy (and projected as slightly annoying) rival or a love interest.

We’re never made to empathise with any particular or specific actions she takes or roles she plays. It seems like There’s no particularly thing Casca has done in the entire goddamn narrative which defines her. Like HER. Not someone else.

So when we say ‘as per usual’ we’re really just comparing with different versions we have been forced to create on our own.

There’s unfortunately no as per usual we can compare with in the source material.

Which is so frustrating.

Lol yeah this is true and I was kind of thinking when I wrote it that I should’ve said like she always tried to do, and might’ve done if anyone actually listened to her. (Like “just talk to each other!” can you imagine if judeau shut the hell up and they were like, actually yeah casca has a point let’s try words before swords). But I went with less accurate pithiness instead lol.

Also like… I do pretty much agree with you – the narrative is so bad about defining Casca in relation to the men in her life rather than as herself independently that I’ve come to hope it’s her central character flaw that will one day be explored as unlikely as that is lmao, but in fairness despite doing things for Griffith’s sake or for Guts’ sake, she does show a lot of character as she does them.

Taking command of the Hawks, leading the charge to infiltrate Doldrey, rallying the troops in dire situations, jealousy, pettiness, bravery, practicality (one moment I love for her, even if it is just to give Guts a moment of ‘wow she’s so cool’ (ugh), is when she tells the Hawks to stop freaking out at the start of the Eclipse because it’s not going to change the fact that shit just got really weird, so they might as well hold formation and stay calm), foolhardiness due to insecurity (going to battle on her period lol), perseverence even after almost giving up, loyalty ofc and her attempt to navigate between loyalty and what she feels is a betrayal of it albeit a timely and necessary one (even if the ‘betrayal’ is fucking guts, like, the feelings there are still complex despite the shitty plot imo), etc.

I hate almost all of Casca’s narrative and ofc it’s steeped in Miura’s misogyny, and she has a few character moments that are total offensive bs (acting cuter when she warms up to guts, maybe my place is at this man’s side, her non-reaction to Wyald’s attempted rape which just underscores that whole awful thing as pure shock value and titilation, etc) but there are also lots of moments she has that I think are revealing, endearing, and interesting. Like misogyny is one of Miura’s big flaws but shallow characterization sure isn’t and imo while his flaws are seriously on display in Casca’s character his strengths are still there.

So yeah like I don’t disagree with you bc her narrative absolutely sucks and I know that’s p much what you’re talking about, but your response did make me kind of want to talk up her likeability as a character a little lol. Like it’s not enough to make up for her awful narrative role, but it’s enough to make me want to explore her as a character and feel sympathy and empathy for her and relate to her in some ways, which is not a high bar but tbh it’s more than a lot of designated-love-interest-female-characters have.

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

look how surprised griffith is by the hawks’ outpouring of emotion when they learn he’s not dead after all.

guts never asked him, he only thought it, but i think that it
wouldn’t’ve even crossed griffith’s mind that faking his own death is
cruel to the hawks. he’s worried about whether asking guts to kill people for him is cruel, not about whether keeping the hawks in the dark is.

this is after he succeeded, after he’s paved
their way, and when he’s no longer useful to them as a military leader. i
don’t think he ever thought they actually cared about him beyond that
enough to be distraught over his “death.”

Yeah I once talked about this in a conversation with someone here, where the other person held the argument that Griffith was an extremely self- entitled person who was aware of his influence and used it knowingly. And they actually made really good points. But then I brought up this incident in my mind.

And I’ve realised that there is a pattern regarding Griffith looking really surprised whenever someone does something for HIM.

There’s this. There’s how surprised he looks when Charlotte starts crying after he gets shot. When Charlotte takes the dart for him. When Guts defends him in front of the Godhand.

And it’s crazy. That for someone who says things like ‘thereby have I held so many lives in this hand’ he’s strangely unaware of the affect he has on others and mostly of the autonomous actions they may take, independent of him, for him.

As confident as Griffith is in his ability to manipulate situations and people, he has very low expectations of them.

Griffith never expects anyone to care.
Hell he never even expected that anyone would ever rescue him from the tower. He didn’t expect Guts to come back.

I think Griffith has conditioned himself to not expect or hope for things which are beyond the things he knows he can Induce on his own.

Which is why even the simplest unpredicted kindness throws him so off balance.

Yeah ia!

And not to sound like someone who reduces Griffith down to sociopath tendencies lol but I think part of it is that people genuinely caring for him is beyond his ability to control?

Like when he thinks about how he’s always been different than other people, some ppl hate him and some ppl love him but no one can disregard him, etc, it boils down to what he can do for people or to them. It’s his charisma inspiring people or intimidating people, and it’s the way he’s a bug in the heavily structured class system that either gives people hope or makes people afraid of him bringing change.

Idk if I really noticed surprise when Charlotte freaked out over the arrow, but definitely when she took the dart for him I got the sense that he was very taken aback bc like… he’d crafted this perfect boyfriend image around her to make her fall for him, but she still loved him after that image fell apart and he was no longer able to appear perfect to her.

Which is also partly why Guts leaving destroyed him so hard – bc once again Guts was an exception who got to see more facets of Griffith, including the less likeable and realer ones, making his response to Griffith a genuine reflection of him and outside of his control.

Yk like if someone hates you because you’ve made yourself hatable to them deliberately (eg griffith climbing the social ladder) that’s nbd, but if someone hates you because they know you, that’s tough, and it’s worse for Griffith than most people because he doesn’t let anyone else know him. Of course Guts doesn’t hate him, but yk, Griff thinks he does.

And relatedly I think Griffith receiving affection and love post-torture would’ve been a huge game-changing deal for him (and probably really emotionally intense and difficult to take too) because of this attitude, but beyond a few moments here and there misunderstandings made shit go south before Guts had the chance to demonstrate his love (Guts defending Griff from the Godhand was a gr8 moment but by then it seemed like too little too late).

Like if someone loves you because you’ve made yourself a perfect wonderful leader to them, that’s nbd, if someone loves you when you’ve been totally broken physically and nearly broken mentally and emotionally that’s a lot more meaningful. Especially if it’s Guts, because again, Guts is the one who’s seen him at his least likeable.

Idk basically this is my take on Griffith being super emotionally defensive and guarded, part 2048392002

replied to your post “ replied to your post “am i the only one who thinks when griff became…”

i know!! the amount of times ive seen even polite debate back & forth (usually abt the eclipse lol) & both ppl agree on concept but there’s two different mental definitions of the buzzwords being used

lol same, i remember a discussion about whether femto’s a different person from griffith or not, and ofc everyone agreed he’s magically changed but not entirely separate from griff but no one agreed on how to define the concept of personhood.

 replied to your post “am i the only one who thinks when griff became femto that he didnt…”

also semantics lol but i think often in berserk meta ‘humanity’ = the sum and total (good emotions plus the negative parts also) so he’s ‘lost’ it in that most parts of the whole have been severed : o
this is half a joke but we need a term glossary for discussion abt sacrifices/the eclipse/femto/neogriffith/apostles

Oh hey yeah this makes sense, like he’s lost his humanity bc he’s no longer a complete human, even if what’s left was still a part of him. that totally works for me.

ngl it would be really handy if everyone in the fandom had the same working definitions of everything, it would probably cut down on a bunch of arguments at least lol.

buhserk:

one of my all time fav tropes is when enemies band together to defeat an even stronger common enemy……i know it’s #problematic and highly unlikely but UGGGHHH imagine if the neo band of the hawk and guts’ current party joined forces to defeat the godhand 😩😩👏👏👌👌

negl considering how much good PR the neo band has right now, not just in-story but with the audience (like let’s be real every apostle with speaking lines rn is cool af), Guts already rode Zodd into battle once, and the story in general has a tendency to do this (Rickert joining former antagonist Silat, Farnese and Serpico joining Guts, a lotta philosophical talk about former enemies joining forces with the Kushans joining Griffith, etc) it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if the Berserk went in this direction at some point.

am i the only one who thinks when griff became femto that he didnt lose his humanity, but rather succumbed to the darker side of it? like berserk is all about how evil and negative emotions are so Natural that god itself is the manifestation of the collective subconscious pain of humanity. i think ppl dont kno what being apathetic means bc femto is petty, spiteful(black swords arc)& reps the worst of griff’s emotions like how the beast is for guts. -“fate just happens” nonnie

Nah I’ve talked w/ ppl about this plenty and tbh it hink it’s pretty straightforwardly said in canon so I definitely agree with you.

I do think there’s a bit of… idk semantic confusion bc in Berserk becoming a godhand/apostle is literally described as burying your human heart and tbf I know sometimes I word it as losing his humanity or trading it in bc the official translation also sometimes does.

But within context it’s pretty obviously less about literally losing your humanity and more about giving in to your ~dark side~ which is very human. I mean like you said, everything about the spirit world in Berserk and magic etc is driven by humanity’s subconscious will, there’s nothing actually inhuman anywhere.

We can see this coming through loud and clear as early as like, volume 3 when Puck taunts the Count about being extremely human even as an apostle.

So yeah I pretty much interpret Femto as the darkest part of Griffith that was like, given magic powers, cool wings and free reign while the rest of his personality was burned away and/or frozen. And yeah exactly, same with the hound and Guts, totally agree.

Also lol do ppl call Femto apathetic? Dude is anything but, he’s sooo petty lol, to the point where it’s genuinely hilarious to me in the Black Swordsman arc. Tho tbf if they’re referring to NeoGriffith more i could see that, he seems different from Femto in that he’s way more chill and serene.

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

seisans
replied to your post “i was thinking about how much I don’t want the plot to be advanced by…”

hhhhhhhhhh god i need more of shit like this i’m starved. characters caring but not realising they care and accidentally making it obvious to everyone but themselves is one of my fav tropes

saaaaame like, that’s easily one of my favourite things about the golden age, i’m desperate for a reprise.

my ideal ending definitely involves griffith doing something stupid and irrational again bc of guts. like i can’t think of anything more perfectly fitting.

I actually would really like some like ‘missing scenes’ content from the Golden age. Like stuff to go with those illustrations from the art-book
And maybe Miura might actually enjoy creating those more too. He does seem partial to the Golden age themes himself.

tbh I wish he’d taken the opportunity to show us something new with Casca’s flashbacks

but yeah potential missing scene stuff would be amazing. and i feel like the golden age is a solid enough story (with enough superficial flaws already) that it would be really hard for him to accidentally ruin with a missing scene, which is my usual fear when it comes to new content for stuff i love lol.

mastermistressofdesire:

bthump:

a concept

AU where Guts never overheard Griffith’s speech to Charlotte, nothing went wrong, Griffith eventually married Charlotte and became king, managed the whole famine and plague situation competently and is beloved, started hooking up with Guts on the side, Casca became the highest-ranked general in Midland, Gaston’s got his shop, everyone’s living their best lives

And then Ganeshka and his unstoppable demon army shows up, and regular old human king Griffith doesn’t have apostles on his side

So Griffith tries to stop Ganeshka but it’s unquestionably hopeless ofc

Anyway this is ultimately a What If Griffith became king and fulfilled his dream all according to plan but 3 years later had to flee his kingdom (or get knocked out and hauled away over Guts’ shoulder depending on how reluctant he is) as it’s about to be taken over by a demon emperor kinda thing. Or maybe he chooses to flee because Guts is determined to stay and die with him if he stays. Because I like the idea of Griffith being forced to pick Guts’ life over dying for his dream.

Either way bam suddenly he’s back to where he was when he was 12 with a group of rag tag friends roaming the countryside trying to survive and he’s gotta deal with that.

This is an excellent concept.

I really love this.
Also seeing as Griffith’s and Guts relationship in this version has Been allowed to run it’s natural course and I’d really like to see how that would play out.
I actually think, since Griffith and Guts hooked up, Griffith sometimes wishes he could just run away from the kingly stuff once in a while to be with Guts.

What if he isn’t actually averse to running away after the initial clashes against Vanishes prove that it’s futile.
But I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t actually.
Maybe because the guilt for his soldiers hasn’t quite gone yet and he rationalises that he can’t surrender something so much blood had once been spilled for, PLUS since Guts’ is known for his “finish what you started” attitude- Griffith feels that Guts will not respect him anymore if he runs away.

Guts for his part, thinks Griffiths decision is non negotiable, so he’s just determined to save him from as much damage as he can. Guts refuses to come in the way of what Griffith wants. And he reasons that’s well, it’s always been in his nature to fight rather than flee. And if he has to die, nothing better than now, when he’s found somebody who looks at him and CARES.


PLUS since Guts’ is known for his “finish what you started” attitude-
Griffith feels that Guts will not respect him anymore if he runs away. 

oooh nice, gr8 point i didn’t consider at all.

also ironic if they both die bc they think that’s what the other wants lol, but that’s so them. maybe casca could intervene w/ some sense + save their asses as per usual.

yesgabsstuff
replied to your post “yesgabsstuff
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He did an amazing job of having the reasons they didn’t talk to each other make perfect sense in character. It makes watching them excruciating because it feels almost like fate. Key word I suppose for plot reasons is “almost.” It feels like they didn’t even have the language to talk about their feelings due to the world of the story as well, which in turn, created their psychological reasons for not expressing themselves. It’s kinda perfect?

yeah exactly, like it never felt at all contrived or like drama for the sake of drama, the reasons why they couldn’t talk to each other reflect on their own characters and backstories, and good point about the setting factoring in too.

also yeah one thing i dig about how fate works in the story is that it always seemed to just lead the characters to choices (eg it’s easy to blame fate for guts overhearing griffith’s speech or the king interrupting their post-zodd chat or the maid spying on griff and charlotte), but never affects the choices they make which all come completely from character. nothing ever feels forced to me despite fate being an active agent in the plot.

yesgabsstuff
replied to your post “yesgabsstuff
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Oh yeah. Their power dynamic is very delicate and that’s what really hooked me into the series honestly. Like you have this tension between playing their roles in their relationship and what they need as people. They don’t really understand that they can have everything they need if they talk about it

yeeeeep same, and like, your last sentence is a perfect summarization of this whole thing lol.

it’s funny, berserk is one of the few stories that rests on a premise of ‘two idiots could’ve fixed everything if they’d just talked to each other’ that i feel really, really works instead of feeling like hamfisted bad drama.

griffithsgaymom:

yknow i think my ideal “if fate didnt exist” situation is more like griffith is able to somehow in the misogynistic homophobic shithole medieval period learn to prioritize his personal happiness over the illusion of “happiness” that the castle and his dream represents? like dead ass, as far as character development goes, let griff have emotional genuine connections with others and stop feeling like hes somehow unworthy of it? also he can admit that hes in love w guts and doesnt manipulate charlotte and thanks casca and spends the rest of his ye old medieval life kissing her feet tbqh

like the become king and keep guts around route is viable but i only want his marriage to charlotte to be lavender af and just… any salvaged balance of power restored between them and also charlotte learns that sitting on ur maids face feels way better than some sweaty man ramming your cervix in a fit of gay angst

yesgabsstuff
replied to your post “ooh also now that i’m contemplating this topic i think the scene in…”

@bthump I agree. I’m not sure that Griffith achieving his goal the ~conventional~ way would have lessened the distance between them. That may very well have triggered a splitting episode in Guts of the “who are u even?!!!������” variety. It would have been very slow burn lol. And possibly more openly kinky than it already is. I mean I’m into it so….

lol yeah i don’t really think griff becoming king would do it, i think they’d have to talk and open up to each other emotionally and feelings of being equals rather than rungs on a hierarchal ladder would follow naturally

tbh it’s funny because i’m always into role reversals wrt relationship power dynamics – like whoever seems to have the most power overall has the least when it comes to ~their feelings~ so GriffGuts kind of really suits me there (that torture chamber monologue, maaaan) – but at the same time there’s such an emphasis placed on equal relationships in Berserk overall but especially wrt GriffGuts that I really want to see it happen, whether it’s a happy AU or equally killing each other at the end of the story lol.

Like first Griff had all the power, then Guts had all the power, then Femto/NeoGriff had all the power, while what both of them wanted was equality. idk it’s a big part of why i find them so endlessly interesting i think. like even in a happy AU it would be rly interesting to explore their dynamic shifting from Guts feeling subordinate to Griffith feeling emotionally powerless and eventually finding some kind of balance. probably with plenty of subtle and overt kinkiness along the way if canon is anything to go by.

yesgabsstuff:

bthump:

ooh also now that i’m contemplating this topic i think the scene in the river with Casca could be viewed as a choice for Griffith between letting her in and growing closer to her or keeping her at a distance. When he freezes up as she hugs him, then turns around and represses his feelings and comforts her instead, that’s him choosing to keep her at a distance rather than be vulnerable around her.

So really his speech to Charlotte about not having friends is a self-fulfilling prophecy. like Griffith could have a bunch of friends but that requires letting people see your imperfections. the way Griffith describes a friend – as an equal who also has a goal and would challenge and oppose him if need be – it’s like he wants someone to fight past his barriers and climb over his walls and make him their friend, because he’s unwilling to expose himself to the possibility of rejection while emotionally vulnerable.

Guts is the exception, the one person he actually tries to let in who keeps placing him at a distance. Asking him to kill Julius instead of ordering and Guts reinforcing the mercenary hierarchy instead; asking if Guts thinks he’s cruel and getting ‘who cares your dream is more important’ as an answer; doing irrational things for him because his brain takes a back seat when Guts is involved and Guts dismissing those moments as irrelevant compared to the overheard friendship speech; etc.

Which is another reason it’s tragic and ironic that Guts takes the friendship speech to heart, because he’s probably the only person in Griffith’s life who didn’t need to follow that advice to become his friend, he just needed to accept Griffith’s overtures of friendship instead of accidentally rebuffing him.

YES.

The problem is that Guts also needs someone to beat him over the head with friendship and Griffith, even at his most vulnerable wasn’t capable of doing that. And then there’s the whole “are we more than friends” can of worms to deal with.

true lol

tbh i think the commander/soldier power differential would’ve been the biggest barrier to overcome for guts, both for friendship and any potential sexual relationship. like the zodd debacle gets him understanding that griffith cares for him but he still wants to serve him (he dedicates his sword to him after that and that contributes to the julius assassination exchange imo) and ngl it would’ve been tough for these dudes to navigate that even without the friendship speech.

i think they could’ve done it, but yk, it would’ve been slowburn af.

ooh also now that i’m contemplating this topic i think the scene in the river with Casca could be viewed as a choice for Griffith between letting her in and growing closer to her or keeping her at a distance. When he freezes up as she hugs him, then turns around and represses his feelings and comforts her instead, that’s him choosing to keep her at a distance rather than be vulnerable around her.

So really his speech to Charlotte about not having friends is a self-fulfilling prophecy. like Griffith could have a bunch of friends but that requires letting people see your imperfections. the way Griffith describes a friend – as an equal who also has a goal and would challenge and oppose him if need be – it’s like he wants someone to fight past his barriers and climb over his walls and make him their friend, because he’s unwilling to expose himself to the possibility of rejection while emotionally vulnerable.

Guts is the exception, the one person he actually tries to let in who keeps placing him at a distance. Asking him to kill Julius instead of ordering and Guts reinforcing the mercenary hierarchy instead; asking if Guts thinks he’s cruel and getting ‘who cares your dream is more important’ as an answer; doing irrational things for him because his brain takes a back seat when Guts is involved and Guts dismissing those moments as irrelevant compared to the overheard friendship speech; etc.

Which is another reason it’s tragic and ironic that Guts takes the friendship speech to heart, because he’s probably the only person in Griffith’s life who didn’t need to follow that advice to become his friend, he just needed to accept Griffith’s overtures of friendship instead of accidentally rebuffing him.

the-black-swordsman
replied to your post “oh and i know i talked recently about how the hawks didn’t seem to…”

Guts and Casca – yes, but I always thought Judeau just wanted to take
care of him, so Casca can be happy with Guts and they can ride off into the
sunset together, I don’t believe he actually cared for Griffith, but only to have Casca move on from him asap. I actually think he is the hawk, who liked Griffith the least, but that might be my hc.

i p much agree actually. the impression i get from judeau is that he admired griffith but didn’t really know what to make of him or what his deal was and was maybe a little wary of him bc of that.

actually now that i think about it maybe the best way to put the way i think the hawks (including judeau to an extent) see griffith in general by the ballroom scene is that they’re like, varying degrees between respect for a commander and friendship, and griffith is the one keeping that distance from being closed by keeping them in the dark about stuff and keeping himself on a pedestal for them. like i see potential there for real friendship that’s never actually fully reached, i guess.