“If you’re Griffith’s friend and equal” with the larger than life beautiful and noble image of Griffith dwarfing them, to “Why do I always see these things… after they’re done and gone…?” with what Griffith has become, tiny and weak, because Guts broke him by leaving to become his equal, itself proof that leaving was unnecessary.
Griffith as the image Guts wanted to rise up to join, whose love and affection and respect he craved vs Griffith as the human Guts was already equal to, who craved Guts’ love and affection and respect in kind.
@bthump OK I’m so glad you mentioned Griffith’s expressions here because I just love any excuse to talk about them
I actually saw some of them, especially the second one in that very post, as somehow … enjoying the pain he’s causing Guts? Relishing in the fact that he IS emotionless now, just like he wanted? (I mean, he isn’t, but he briefly thought he was.) That’s reminiscent of how Femto seems to treat and feel about Guts, but FA pointed out to me that he was surprised by his heartbeat too so him having come here not just to confirm if the freezing of his heart succeeded but also to taunt Guts doesn’t really fit?? And I’m always careful with reading too much into drawn expressions bc maybe the artist just didn’t manage to convey what they were trying to (or, more likely, I’m really bad at reading faces)
Thoughts??
Yeah I could see that – in the 4th panel on that post I was thinking that his eyes look like they should be conveying tenderness but the overall effect comes across as smug. In the 2nd pic I could def see it as him relishing the moment. Tbh even if NGriff didn’t consciously come to act like a smug dick in front of Guts and brush him off, it wouldn’t surprise me if that was a subconsicous part of his motivation.
I like to assume NGriff has about the same emotional self-awareness and ability to delude himself as regular Griffith lol, so even if he thinks he’s emotionless up til he actually notices his heart going off that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s true, especially since we can be pretty sure that Femto had emotions. (Tho how much of a difference there is between Femto and NeoGriff is still a mystery to me, so Femto’s emotional capacity might not be relevant? idk)
(ikwym about not reading too much into drawn expressions, I tend to avoid including stuff like that in analysis unless it’s super obvious because interpreting art and facial expression is so subjective both for the reader and the artist. But yk it’s still fun to speculate about lol, and Miura’s are often so good that it’s hard not to gush about them)
“I like to assume NGriff has about the same emotional self-awareness and ability to delude himself as regular Griffith“ LMAO that’s so true
Come to think of it this was mine and FA’s final conclusion too, I just completely forgot bc my brain is garbage. But yeah, while I do think the interpretation of Griffith’s emotions and motivations here is up for debate, I’m not so willing to let go of my “Deep down he wanted to hurt Guts (or at least enjoyed doing it)” way of seeing it bc I like the idea of Griffith caring way more than he’d like to admit, and especially caring way more than he even realises
Man I can’t wait to find out what’s been going on in NGriff’s head, because I genuinely do think we’re setting up for some level of ‘why tf can’t I just forget him’ emotionally compromised kind of thing. I mean maybe that’s just because it’s the #1 thing I want to see, but come on, the groundwork’s been layed so perfectly from their extremely epic past relationship in the Golden Age to the reveal that NGriff isn’t as serene as he’d like to be to how ambiguous and inscruitable he’s been since. I want the payoff so bad.
also I kind of want to re-watch that scene in the 2017 anime now bc it is surprisingly
satisfying to see NGriff actually looking like he hates Guts’ guts
instead of just the grating chill serenity.
Actually the most recent anime adaptation completely coloured how I viewed that scene for a while there because Griffith looked so hateful
I probably shouldn’t read too much into this bad CGI model but …… I mean come on holy shit
lol wow, i’ve only seen this episode in a really laggy stream so I never rly noticed this.
I feel like chalking this up to a bad adaptation needing to make it painfully obvious that this guy is Villainous and throwing nuance and subtlety to the wind.
But I still do think that in the manga he got a petty thrill from getting to be the one to ditch Guts this time.
@bthump OK I’m so glad you mentioned Griffith’s expressions here because I just love any excuse to talk about them
I actually saw some of them, especially the second one in that very post, as somehow … enjoying the pain he’s causing Guts? Relishing in the fact that he IS emotionless now, just like he wanted? (I mean, he isn’t, but he briefly thought he was.) That’s reminiscent of how Femto seems to treat and feel about Guts, but FA pointed out to me that he was surprised by his heartbeat too so him having come here not just to confirm if the freezing of his heart succeeded but also to taunt Guts doesn’t really fit?? And I’m always careful with reading too much into drawn expressions bc maybe the artist just didn’t manage to convey what they were trying to (or, more likely, I’m really bad at reading faces)
Thoughts??
Yeah I could see that – in the 4th panel on that post I was thinking that his eyes look like they should be conveying tenderness but the overall effect comes across as smug. In the 2nd pic I could def see it as him relishing the moment. Tbh even if NGriff didn’t consciously come to act like a smug dick in front of Guts and brush him off, it wouldn’t surprise me if that was a subconsicous part of his motivation.
I like to assume NGriff has about the same emotional self-awareness and ability to delude himself as regular Griffith lol, so even if he thinks he’s emotionless up til he actually notices his heart going off that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s true, especially since we can be pretty sure that Femto had emotions. (Tho how much of a difference there is between Femto and NeoGriff is still a mystery to me, so Femto’s emotional capacity might not be relevant? idk)
(ikwym about not reading too much into drawn expressions, I tend to avoid including stuff like that in analysis unless it’s super obvious because interpreting art and facial expression is so subjective both for the reader and the artist. But yk it’s still fun to speculate about lol, and Miura’s are often so good that it’s hard not to gush about them)
tfw you write a meta post just so you can link to it in a longer meta post
I want to take a minute to explain my take on the Hound.
Basically he’s Guts’ equivalent to Griffith’s Femto, ie, the ~dark side~ of Guts, made out of swirling negative emotions like rage and fear and hatred etc. It’s likely due to the reality-warping brand on his neck that the Hound is given more form and will than most people’s dark sides, becoming more of a presence to Guts.
We know the Hound isn’t an external evil spirit trying to manipulate Guts or possess him because we see it in Godo’s spirit-repelling cave where Guts is guaranteed to be safe from mean external forces like ghosts.
Like, the nature of the Hound is basically spelled out in its first physical appearance:
This establishes that the Hound is a manifestation of Guts’ “malice” (among other negative emotions, like the fear Guts mentions). Godo says to Guts – “you ran away so that your own malice could burn within you.” That’s the dark flame Guts is referencing up there, which is essentially the Hound.
This also establishes that the Hound is real – it’s not just a metaphor for the audience’s sake, it’s a physical presence that Guts senses. It’s a part of Guts given ghostly form. When he argues with it he’s arguing with himself.
It’s explicitly compared to Femto a few chapters earlier, when the concept is shown to us, before it explicitly appears as an entity.
What Skull Knight means by “or else…” becomes clear on the following page where he finds Rosine’s behelit.
Reminding the audience that there are ways for men to become beasts.
We cut to Guts walking through a forest being taunted by all those asshole spirits, digging into his deep insecurities, locating sites of his self-loathing and using it to fuck with his mind.
They’re essentially voicing his thoughts for him.
Pointing out his inner darkness, similarly to how the spirit that possessed Farnese pointed out that she gets off on torture. They’re not making shit up here, what they say digs deep and fucks with people’s heads because it’s based on truth.
Here they explicitly compare the Hound to Femto.
And finally Guts’ response after they take off:
He’s completely right, and as we can figure out from the ominous shot of the behelit and the fact that this is Guts reaffirming his stupid self destructive revenge crusade, this isn’t the greatest attitude.
He is what he is, and the more he pursues revenge and soaks himself in blood etc the stronger the Hound part of him gets.
And just in case more evidence that the Hound is a part of Guts and not an external force is needed, there’s this:
“This… is my…”
After the armour transforms into the shape of the Hound, rather than Skull Knight’s Skull Knight:
Guts’ armour is Guts getting the power of his dark side that apostles get, without having to sacrifice a loved one first. If he became an apostle his monstrous form would look a lot like the Hound. If Griffith was in Guts’ place, his armour would look a lot like Femto.
and now i will write and draw some heterosexual intercourse 🙂
lmao
time to draw my badass manly sword fight between two heterosexual men
Miura as Tobias Funke is the funniest thing I’ve ever thought of
i just wrote a thing about guts + griff’s first duel including gay sword imagery (even tho I promised myself I would avoid freudian imagery but i’m sorry it’s RIGHT THERE and unavoidable when the topic is gay subtext in Berserk) and then I re-read a few chapters following and maybe I just have phallic symbols on the brain but this cannot be accidental, right
I went out clothes shopping the other day and found that fashion is super not catering to my very specific needs, so i came home and angrily drew Griffith looking cute to…cope??? idk
I like that Griffith’s two examples describe both him and Guts in the future. Like Griffith isn’t into world domination now, he just wants to be a king, but it sounds like that’s where the Falconia thing/Gaiseric’s giant empire parallel is headed.
And Black Swordsman Guts is both literally tempering his giant sword by infusing it with evil ghost spirits and shit, and also metaphorically honing himself a la Godo’s metaphor for him thru his dream of revenge and fighting tougher and tougher enemies.
and when he got his lofty noble dream figured out it was inspired by Godo being a blacksmith
but at the end of the day both go hand in hand with self destruction so like Griffith was right on the money here
the parallels that can be drawn between griffith and gambino as far as their effect on guts goes make me so uncomfy lmfao
i think its unfair to draw them in most instances because the way they treat him is so totally different but the most interesting case of such a parallel (also most blatant) is after gutsca have sex and doze off.
guts recalls how gambino brought him medicine for the cut on his nose and how he rubbed it in, his oversized sword beside him. i feel like this is supposed to be like, Sweet, Aw cus casca’s tended his wounds before and now casca’s being compared to Guts’s own sword rather than being griffiths. the like actual reality of it tho is that baby guts had endured serious physical and emotional abuse by his father figure and clung to this one instance of care. guts Couldn’t be good enough for gambino, which is a parallel to how he felt after overhearing Griffith’s friendship monologue. guts feels wounded by that instance and his taking comfort in casca is like his taking comfort in that medicine: Not A Real Solution To His Problem, Nor The Related Feelings. it also like, Literally objectifies casca which is so so unfair to her. guts doesnt feel safe/complete without a sword, but you know how he treats them? he wields them as hard as possible until they break and he picks up a new one.
after the eclipse, guts is forced to realize just how much damage was caused by his own leaving the hawks serving as a catalyst. after the eclipse guts thinks about griffith alongside the other hawks, as he was someone else guts lost, as if griffith died. the eclipse was like, Griffith Doing Bad Shit, just like gambino was originally the one attacking guts – but, once forced to relive the experience, guts doesn’t relive his abuse. gambino being the attacker doesnt give guts any solace, he still feels guilty for having killed gambino and wants his forgiveness. like, these are my totally unrefined thoughts so i hope my point is coming across here, but if parallels are going to be drawn between gambino and griffith, it just emphasizes how revenge + killing griffith will resolve nothing, because that’s not what guts really longs for.
you're the only one 