stop picking on him godo, he’s trying to work this shit out! leave big dumb guts alone 😤
like fr though guts needs more criticism because although he’s very introspective, he’s short-sighted, driven by emotion, and impulsive … then ultimately full of regret
Author: hawkville
yk what’s great about berserk
it’s not just the story of two dudes obsessed with each other and trying to deal w/ that obsession in various stupid ways
it’s the story about a dude whose every plot relevant decision is based on how he thinks another dude feels about him
joining the hawks? dedicating his sword to him and feeling at home? deciding to leave the hawks? deciding to stay again but too late? war declaration followed by a three year monster murder spree? deciding to try really hard to get over his obsession and take casca to elfhelm?
like, when it comes right down to it, griffith’s feelings are the really important ones. they’re the feelings that drive the plot, because guts’ every fucking decision is made based on what he thinks those feelings are. that’s why the golden age revolved around them, and that’s why the current big mystery is “how does neogriffith really feel?”
from back in the black swordsman arc:

to the current decision he’s still on:

and that’s another reason I think NGriff’s beating heart is going to become very relevant to Guts eventually. it’s what berserk is about.
like the ~academic~ way of putting this is that
Berserk is the story of a man’s desire for interpersonal connection due to his abusive childhood, but that keeps coming back to Griffith. He’s the connection Guts wants and later doesn’t want to want. The true light every other light is measured up to.
So yk Berserk is a story about a dude whose motivation is almost solely based around another guy’s apparent feelings or lack thereof for him.

pulling another possible parallel out of my ass here but

do 97 anime guts comes off as less interesting to you? idk if its cuz of cutting his childhood trauma or anime not being good about expressions lol. maybe im being too harsh about the anime but anime guts is maybe closer to the dudebro interpretation.
yeah i feel this tbh. I haven’t watched the anime in its entirety for years but just from checking out a few scenes and episodes here and there i def get this impression, and I think it’s largely because of the character design/animation? like yeah cutting his rape trauma prob doesn’t help but I’m aware of that so it doesn’t affect my take on the character, but i’m still way less fond of anime guts than manga guts.
idk he just comes across as angrier, even when he has no real reason to be during the golden age, yk the happiest time of his life. his default expressions strike me as kind of dour and he doesn’t have that warmth i get in the manga ime.
like just to illustrate this w/ a minor example i picked at random (i was actually gonna look at the rooftop scene from the scene after but i didn’t actually mind the vibe guts gave off there):




doesn’t really have the same vibe, yk?
and i mean yeah you can cherry pick examples, like i mentioned there are scenes in the anime that i think they depicted pretty well, but this does seem to be a recurring problem i have w/ guts in particular, as far as I’ve seen.
i’ve pointed this one out b4 but


idk maybe it’s the angle of the eyebrows more than anything lol. he always just looks low key pissed off.
it’s so much more interesting for skull knight to be essentially using guts for his own means and only allying with him because they share a common enemy and guts has a sort of “in” to the god hand through griffith than for him to help guts because he likes him on any personal level lol why do people want skull knight to be a total “good guy” with no ulterior motives. like would someone who truly cares about guts well being would let guts have the berserker armour?? nah sis he needs guts to be as strong as possible to serve his own goals like it isn’t rocket science


gimme the payoff miura
It’d actually be pretty cool if we got more moments between Guts and Serpico. It kinda surprises me that there haven’t been more tbh, they’re the closest in age rn in the new squad, and there are some similarities between Serpico and Griffith. Also Serpico’s personality balances out well with Guts’ personality imo. Maybe we’ll get some development in the future?
ia, I think Guts and Serpico have a lot of potential for an interesting relationship dynamic, parallels, contrasts, both wrt their relationships and each other as individuals. Yk in the conviction arc serpico and farnese had some griffguts vibes (well everyone in the conviction arc did lol), they both have abusive childhoods that involved taking care of a parent and eventually killing them, they’re actually both relatively chill people but guts has a force of personality and a drive that serpico doesn’t have, idk there’s a lot of interesting comparisons to make imo.
tbh their relationship feels way shallower than it could, but honestly I feel the same way about most aspects of guts’ narrative from the millenium falcon arc on. so I’d love to see more development, but I’m not like counting on it lol.
(maybe it’s purposefully shallow to show that Guts isn’t really fully connecting with anyone in his new group. like guts and serpico dueled but… guts doesn’t really give a fuck. serpico saved guts from zodd but guts doesn’t really reflect on that or care. anything interesting between them is from serpico’s point of view, eg reflecting on how being around guts has changed him. guts just gets his bland little ‘hey thanks for the help you guys’ moment in elfhelm and that’s about it.
i’d like to think that’s a purposeful contrast to guts’ actual meaningful relationships of the golden age lol, buuuuuuut yeah right lol, that’s wishful thinking. miura’s just halfassing it.
it’s like guts going to get farnese back from her family. it’s nice, it makes me happy that guts values farnese, but what does that mean for guts? how does his relationship with farnese, or serpico, or schierke, or isidro, etc, make him feel? he likes them, he wants to protect them, but how do they fit in to his complex inner life? i can come up with a million ways griffith and the hawks reflected and refracted guts’ childhood for instance, but not the rpg group.
maybe the difference is that guts is now fulfilling gambino/griffith’s role. he’s switched from needer of attention to distant giver of attention. there are parallels there in theory, yk farnese’s admiration, teaching isidro to fight, casca/shizu similarities potentially, serpico comparing guts to fire/blazing inferno that is griffith, blah blah blah. but they also… don’t seem to emotionally affect guts much. like damn imagine if guts himself was making a comparison between himself and gambino and fearing his own potential to be a shitty abusive life ruiner. instead that all gets channeled into the beast of darkness stuff, easily blamed on a magic suit of armour, without a hint of awareness on guts’ part of the potential parallels there.
uhhhh i went off on a weird tangent, sorry lol.)
i’d like your thoughts on this please! i’d forgotten about this singular instance of guts clawing at his skin in the black swordsman arc. i have my own ideas, but i don’t have time to thoroughly analyze them right now with all the packing and moving—but basically—(and tumblr somehow didn’t save my previous wall of text about this) i’m assuming, that this is guts either/or/a bit of both;
1. guts dealing with his internalized grieving and rage, coupled with sleep deprivation, and even more sleep deprivation and rage driven by survivors guilt. not to mention all the tough guy posturing and denial of his true nature, he needs to stay angry. he wants to keep that anger burning at 1000% because anything less, i don’t think he’d be able to justify. his guilt is overwhelming. griffith does this for much the same reasons imo (compounded by his other awful reasons of course) … guilt over the fallen, while he/they remain/s “clean”/alive. lots of other parallels and reasons i’m sure too. maybe the physical pain feels better than the mental anguish, which guts clearly isn’t able to parse yet.
2. is it this particular scar though? the ellipses are definitely suggesting that looking at that scar triggers something within him. does anyone know what scar this is from, in particular? or could it just be a memory of seeing griffith’s own self-harm scars, giving him this idea even? miura might not have even written griffith’s self mutilation into the story yet though, who knows. maybe this is his way of showing characters dealing with trauma and ptsd in terrible ways.
if i weren’t in the middle of moving i’d look into it myself, but alas, i’m out of time. this scene is very intriguing, though. and please take my half baked analyses with a grain of salt, i often miss very basic stuff because i tend to hyper-focus on details rather than broad ideas … but i didn’t want to forget this.
Totally agree with #1. I think it’s partly guilt over the Eclipse (or whatever Miura was imagining this far back, but as early as Guts blatantly comparing himself to Vargas we know he lost loved ones), but also guilt over the people he gets killed just existing around them while ghosts show up to fuck with him every night lol, which we see in the 2nd chapter when he tells himself he doesn’t care what happens to the people he travels with, then they die and he’s sad.
Yk, he tells himself other people don’t matter because they’re weak (”If someone can’t live their life the way they please… they might as well die.”) but the self-harm is a v quick way of showing the audience that Guts doesn’t actually believe that, and he kinda hates himself for trying to convince himself of it.
Just like Griffith saying “I don’t feel responsible for my comrades who’ve lost their lives under my command. I guess… because they chose to fight. It’s just the way I am.” while he’s simultaneously tearing his arms open lol.
I think #2 is really interesting and something I never noticed actually. ihni where Guts got that scar, and since Miura never drew Griffith with si scars on his arm I doubt it’s actually a memory of Griffith, tho that concept is amazing and I’m about to just adopt it as headcanon regardless.
One thing that just occurred to me wrt that scar is that Guts looking at it before self harming over it ties Guts’ self harm to, yk, swinging his sword at giant monsters and groups of a hundred men. Miura maybe suggesting it’s all variations of self-harm? And foreshadowing Guts’ particular style of fighting, ie leap into danger, get his ass kicked, and maneuver himself close enough to exploit a big monster’s weakness.

berserk panel that I colored a while back;
12”x18” copic markers and various brush pens

prettykitten123
replied to your post “madchen
replied to your post “I was just thinking that, during…”
Idky but the idea of Griffith just glaring at Guts for 15 minutes was just so funny to me. I can Imagine Casca after a while deciding to play the mediator between them
If that doesn’t work and they end up
sitting in that room for a whole day, I can imagine someone just trying
to bribe them into talking with food(they’ve been in there all day, prob
starving at this point) but Griffith still wouldn’t care. He could be
five seconds away from passing out from hunger and still wont talk to
Guts
yeah if she locked them in a room together she should be prepared to step in lol, they need all the help they can get
also lol hopefully guts would at least be mature enough to start the ball rolling before that point. but idk, he’s also stupid and stubborn
madchen
replied to your post “I was just thinking that, during Griffith and Guts’ fight when…”
lmao i love the last sitcom lock em in a room together but. griffith would be like a feral bristly cat and not speak but just glare at guts for a good fifteen minutes and guts would just be sheepish and probably start feeling embarrassed about wanting to leave before they actually speak…
yeah i feel like they’d need like, a day and/or some kind of cartoonish ticking time bomb threat before they really started talking. and guts would have to start it, not just because he’s more likely to but also because he at least knows what’s going on lmao while i think griffith’s kind of stuck on ‘guts can’t leave. why? because… idk i own him or something. also the thought of guts leaving me makes me want to set myself on fire.’
ngl i think the easiest (relatively lol) way for this to get figured out is to have one of the ppl in the know about guts’ decision tell griffith, because then he has a starting point (i don’t look down on guts, do i? why or why not?) and prying the truth out of guts would be hard.


this is literally the largest thing i’ve ever drawn
i’m pretty annoyed i can’t fit it in a scanner, taking decent pictures of it is a dreadful task
prettykitten123
replied to your post
“I was just thinking that, during Griffith and Guts’ fight when…”
If I was Casca I would’ve just said “he’s leaving because of what you said at the Promrose hall. Goddamn. Now can you two please talk it out because there have obviously been some miscommunication”
Like Casca understands those two perfect and knew why Guts was leaving
When she went to get
Griffith she could’ve literally told him “Guts is leaving. He’s going
because of what you said at the Promrose hall, may be you should pull
him aside and talk to him privately”Knowing Casca that’s probably something that she did say but Griffith didn’t act upon it because of emotions. Damn emotions
mercenaries gonna mercenary i guess
to be fair I think Casca telling Griffith why Guts wanted to leave would be kind of a betrayal of trust. Guts’ reasons are pretty personal. (ON THE OTHER HAND she had no problem telling Guts all about Griffith’s incredibly personal issues, so lmao that’s kind of an inadequate excuse.)
And tbh I feel like she got Griffith to show up to keep Guts from leaving because she thought they’d be able to talk it out. Honestly I think you’re basically right lol, it’s kind of just plot convenience that she doesn’t tell Griffith why Guts was planning to leave. There’s no real reason for her to hold back.
I definitely don’t think she told Griffith though, based on his inner monologue before the duel and like… idk just from everything I feel I understand about Griffith’s narrative and inner conflicts it makes the most sense for him to take Guts leaving as a rejection. If he knew Guts was leaving because he admired him his reaction would still probably be negative, he might even still just default to challenging Guts to another duel to avoid examining how he actually feels lmao, but I think his thoughts would be very different and I don’t think he’d have a huge breakdown after if that was the case.
I was just thinking that, during Griffith and Guts’ fight when Griffith was trying to keep Guts from leaving, he literallly couldn’t asked to speak with him in private. Just like how Judeau and the others pulled him aside for a chat, Griffith could’ve done the same. I’m sure Casca was internally screaming why they were being such idiots the entire time, especially knowing how close they were and knowing that one little word could keep Guts from going
ikr, like
Casca:

Guts, and Griffith, and Judeau, and Pippin, and Corkus:




Because it’s true lol, this is genuinely a conflict they could’ve theoretically fixed by talking it out.
Tho I do think the story really effectively shows us why neither of them are going to talk it out, so it doesn’t feel like… stupidly frustrating the way dumb miscommunication does in fiction. It’s rooted deeply in character – Griffith can’t explain why he needs Guts to stay bc he doesn’t really know, Guts can’t explain why he wants to leave because that defeats the whole purpose, ie:

Like, I’m rearranging my entire life to be your friend based on some weirdly specific criteria you have that I happened to overhear, criteria which explicitly precludes basing your life around another person, so it’s kind of awkward to fully explain.
So even if they did try to talk I could easily see it going nowhere because neither is quite able to explain themselves without additional motivation/understanding/etc. But yk, if they had that motivation and an opportunity to hash it out I could also see them figuring their stuff out, and then their lives would’ve been a lot happier lol.
Like if Casca had resorted to the old “lock them in a room together” sitcom plot lmao.
phydia63
replied to your post “griff-guts
replied to your post “I mean I genuinely do think (human,…”
and honestly, from what I’ve gathered, in most people’s opinion Guts is only better than Griffith in that sense that he “didn’t rape the other man’s woman”. I’m not defending Griffith obviously, but Guts is no moral beacon either lmao
idk in some parts of fandom there really are a lot of people who seem to think guts is justified in everything he does because monsters are bad/he’s had a hard life/etc and anything he does that is clearly terrible (like eg assaulting casca) wasn’t his fault anyway/isn’t that bad bc he stopped partway thru and he’s making up for it by taking her to elfhelm so stfu/etc
but luckily i don’t encounter those opinions much unless i start reading like, youtube comments and shit lol.
Tho if you’re including takes like “wow Guts is such a hero and martyr for taking Casca to Elfhelm” or respecting women juice style memes ft Guts then it starts feeling more common. But tbf posts like that don’t necessarily encompass someone’s entire nuanced opinion of a character lol.

How do you think Griffith and Guts would start dating? Would Griffith be the one to confess first or? What about PDA??
imo when it comes to fic and stuff like that like that I can go along with just about anything as long as it’s written well, so yk I have no hard and fast opinions on this
but i do have some sort of default concepts I keep coming back to. So like I think the easiest and most convenient way for Griffith and Guts to get together is to make it an AU where Guts never overheard the Promrose Hall speech. Everything just falls into place that way imo.
I mean you can’t tell me he wouldn’t’ve got a clue when Casca said, “It’s as if… as if…” if he didn’t have that whole overheard speech blocking the path to understanding Griffith’s feelings. (That) + (Griffith expressing his fear that Guts has a negative opinion of him in Tombstone of Flame) – (Guts convincing himself that Griffith looks down on him) = kiss.
And along with that, I tend to assume Guts would make the first move in most scenarios.
Partially because my thinking is, well Griffith has his “I must obtain the things I desire” mentality, so if he was going to make the first move surely he would’ve done it by now. But he hasn’t, so there must be something preventing him. And I mean I generally believe that Griffith doesn’t realize he’s in love with Guts, and may not even be in a place to recognize his physical attraction to him. Or if he does know he’s attracted, at least, it’s something he dismisses as irrelevant. So what’s preventing him imo is his inability to acknowledge/understand his own feelings.
Guts conversely is the more emotionally open one, imo. He’s the one who wants to know how Griffith feels about him, he wants to know why Griffith saved him so he directly asks him every time. He reflects on his own feelings and acts on them. So I could see Guts realizing he wants to kiss Griffith and then doing it without thinking too much about possible reasons he shouldn’t. Especially if he has reason to believe Griffith might also want that (eg Casca coming this close to telling him so in the cave).
And I don’t think his trauma would necessarily have to factor in or make him hesitant (tho it could), because Griffith is Griffith, he kind of exists as a special category of person in Guts head imo lol, so I don’t think Guts’ brain would necessarily automatically leap from sex with Griffith = sex with a man = emotionally dangerous territory. So basically if you want to bypass Guts’ trauma as a giant factor keeping them apart, or delay it for a while so they can happily make out/have some kinds of sex without Guts flashbacking or w/e, I think it’s totally reasonable (tho mb something worth examining wrt Guts’ internalized homophobia).
But also I could see Griffith confessing his feelings first in an “I need you,” way, and Guts making the leap to romance. OR potentially if Griffith becomes aware or believes that Guts wants him sexually, he might make the first move while framing it to himself as just bros letting off steam together or something lol, because he wants it but can’t admit to himself how desperately he wants it. Or a million other scenarios.
But that’s just my take on Griffith and Guts. If like a fic characterized Griffith as a little more self aware of his feelings but needing a catalyst to act on them, or something like that, it wouldn’t break my suspension of disbelief or anything.
Also wrt PDA I feel like they’d be extremely touchy-feely, but the Berserk setting being what it is would prevent any blatant displays of it. Like they could spend hours cuddling in private, but in public they’d probably both be too aware to even casually touch much. Their casual touches in public might stop happening entirely because they’d second guess them.
Though ngl I could also see them forgetting themselves, letting their hands linger over each other, Guts brushing Griffith’s hair away from his face, sitting pressed together and leaning into each other while drinking around the fire, etc. Like they’d go from getting together to open secret among the Hawk commanders at least within a week. I guess if this was a fic for me it would depend on the tone. This might feel weird in a dark and v close to canon feeling fic, but it would be great in something fluffier and more fun.
Also if it was like a modern AU they would absolutely be that couple that third wheels everyone around them, sits in each others’ laps, etc.
griff-guts
replied to your post
“I mean I genuinely do think (human, obviously) Griffith is by far a…”
lmao i think about this all the time. also audience leniency and sympathy towards guts moral failings is amplified due to him being the narrative point of view and protagonist for the majority of chapters, and in comparison to starkly standard evil characters like apostles, femto, etc he SEEMS to be a good guy, even though realistically he isn’t. the grey morality of berserk extends to literally everyone even guts. it’s like really no coincidence that miura draws guts visually similar to
femto and the apostles
often lol. i mean i can’t insert examples or whatever bc this is just a
rambling reply but i’m sure you’ve seen the comparison posts of guts in
berserker armour or just in battle to femto. it’s like….. so not subtle
that he’s an asshole and not presented as a shining example of perfect
morality yet bc the fandom can’t read and he’s their macho straight guy
testosterone hero he gets a pass for doing bad stuff lol
yeah absolutely lol, like most of the point of Guts’ narrative is that at times he gets pretty damn indistinguishable from demons/monsters even without a magical transformation. Like yeah definitely visually, but tbh it’s also directly stated a lot lol. Like ngl this is actually one of my fave (well, non griffguts) lines:

And then once we’re in NeoGriffith’s narrative and meeting the cool apostles, a lot of them seem way better than Guts by any moral standard lol. Grunebeld, Zodd, Irvine.
Like the dock fight really directly compares Guts and Zodd and both of them balancing humanity/reason and bloodlust.
Idk I love this aspect of Berserk basically lol, I’m all about dark monstery protags. And it’s dumb that so many people want to see Guts as an admirable beacon of virtue because that’s like the opposite of the point.
I mean I genuinely do think (human, obviously) Griffith is by far a more “moral” person than Guts by most standards lol, which ironically is partly why he ended up succumbing to his inner darkness – pushing past your own moral limits is what makes it grow.
Guts doesn’t push past his own moral limits very often because his moral limits are fewer and far between than Griffith’s, while Griffith pushes past his moral limits p much every time he goes into battle.
It’s a really really fun irony to me.
do you think griffith have a ‘the ends justifies the means’ mentality? some people use it to describe him. but i think its just what he tells himself when he feels guilty. or people just take godhands the whole ‘you knew this would happen. you wanted this’ attitute too literal.
tbh yeah I think that’s basically his driving philosophy when it comes to his dream. A lot of people get weird about it and think that means he was born as like a cutthroat ruthless evil kid who’d do anything to get what he wants lmao, but yeah I mean his motivations are complex and interesting but you can boil his attitude down to the end justifies the means.
He does commit acts he believes are wrong in the course of achieving his dream, because he considers the goal to be worth it.
There’s also a side of his belief in fate at play, where he thinks if he achieves his dream then that’s a sign from a higher power/arbiter of these things that he was meant to do all the wrong things he does along the way to achieve it.
But it does all come back to guilt. If he achieves his dream then the deaths of all the people who died for it will be meaningful and justified. They died for his dream, therefore he must achieve it.
Also it’s worth noting that the things Griffith considers to be wrong, that make him feel guilty, are mostly things Guts brushes off and doesn’t even give a second thought to. Kill hired goons and keep the money we were supposed to pay them? Yeah that sounds fine. Fight a war, leading many people to their deaths and killing many enemy soldiers? Duh that’s just life. Assassinate people? Yeah why not they’re dicks and I like killing people. Griffith’s mountain of guilt corpses include enemy soldiers, people his Hawks killed, etc. It all fucks him up.
So yk in that sense “the end justifies the means” comes down to what the person in question considers wrong. And Guts also shares this philosophy when his ends (eg become Griffith’s equal, kill monsters) justify his means (abandoning all his friends, torturing apostles for information or fun, using kids as bait/hostages, etc). Guts just has a different standard of immoral, and he crosses it a lot too.
And I tend to think that a major aspect of Berserk is showing how this philosophy can corrupt you, until your means get worse and worse (eg Griffith making the sacrifice) because committing a constant stream of acts you yourself find morally reprehensible kind of numbs you to it and makes it easier to do worse.
Guts leading his Raiders and killing thousands of people in his life would never lead to Guts making a sacrifice, because Guts doesn’t care about the faceless soldiers he kills, he doesn’t feel guilty about being a mercenary, and he differentiates between his friends and everyone else. His friends are important, everyone else isn’t.
Griffith doesn’t differentiate. All those deaths hit him, he deliberately refuses to see the Hawks as his friends because he’s well aware that they can and probably will die for his dream, what with being soldiers, and so eventually sacrificing the Hawks starts looking like adding one more generic scoop of bodies to a mountain.
Sooo idk basically I think you’re v right, his guilt plays a major part and most people would say “Griffith thinks the end justifies the means” and use that as a reason he’s an evil conniving sociopath, but yeah imo while it’s true that Griffith thinks that way, it’s a lot more complicated than “and that proves he’s evil” lol.
a-girl-named-chester
replied to your post “I have noticed a few people shipping Serpico and Guts together. Do…”
I love this concept so much, especially the last sentence LMAO
lol honestly it’s such a funny concept in my head
like yeah sad and emotional but imagining serpico’s oh shit moment when he realizes Guts is the opposite of good hookup material halfway thru sex is hilarious to me
I feel like Griffith and Guts’ relationship would work as a good PSA for for why you should talk things out b4 letting this escalate
lmao yeah this pretty much sums the golden age up
greenberryl
replied to your post “I have noticed a few people shipping Serpico and Guts together. Do…”
Actually, Guts should just hook up with some cute twink boy and then go and make out right in front of neogriff. And then look where all of his “now i’m free” bullshit goes.
see this is how you get revenge. take notes guts.
@prettykitten123 said:
Damn Miura is just taking inspiration from everywhere! Lol
yeah lol, there are so many different things i’ve seen cited as inspiration or considered references, it’s p cool











